JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW

[JBiz]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

Was it and either or situation then did we have to sign either Premier League players in their mid 30's on big wages or a teenager for a big fee? Were we not allowed to sign experienced Championship players in their mid to late 20's?

No but 47ers fantasy was literally anything we could’ve done would’ve been better.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Biz said:

No but 47ers fantasy was literally anything we could’ve done would’ve been better.

Backtracking.

[JBiz]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

Backtracking.

And you’re choosing to highlight my point specifically to argue with, when it’s quite clearly a ridiculous response to a ridiculous point.

 

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Biz said:

And you’re choosing to highlight my point specifically to argue with, when it’s quite clearly a ridiculous response to a ridiculous point.

In response to someone saying that is was £7 Million that we could have spent better you said "Yea. We could’ve signed a few premier league frees like Etuhu and Murphy, that would’ve turned out better than it this wouldn’t it."  I merely asked you was it and either or situation did we have to sign either Premier League players in their mid 30's on big wages or a teenager for a big fee? Were we not allowed to sign experienced Championship players in their mid to late 20's? To which you responded 'no' therefore admitting that you had created a false dichotomy in order to make Brereton seem like a better signing.

Call me old fashioned but I judge my strikers on goals and he has played over 500 minutes of football for us and still not scored, whatever way you dress it up that is a big problem.

[JBiz]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

In response to someone saying that is was £7 Million that we could have spent better you said "Yea. We could’ve signed a few premier league frees like Etuhu and Murphy, that would’ve turned out better than it this wouldn’t it."  I merely asked you was it and either or situation did we have to sign either Premier League players in their mid 30's on big wages or a teenager for a big fee? Were we not allowed to sign experienced Championship players in their mid to late 20's? To which you responded 'no' therefore admitting that you had created a false dichotomy in order to make Brereton seem like a better signing.

Call me old fashioned but I judge my strikers on goals and he has played over 500 minutes of football for us and still not scored, whatever way you dress it up that is a big problem.

Call me modern if you like but I’d say there’s more to a footballer than just goals, even upfront. If there wasn’t, Nuttall would be hailed as the second coming of Jesus.

And for the last time, I was replying to; “Whatever we could have done with it, it would have been better than what we actually did!”

The ridiculous reply about Murphy/Etuhu was  to point out just how wrong the above statement is.

Now jog on.

[Ewood Ace]

2 minutes ago, Biz said:

Now jog on.

Now, now no need for that. Attacking the man again.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Ewood Ace

[roverandout]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Sometimes one word says more than many.

47er was spot on, hence, ‘bingo’.

Not just you, Joe, and you certainly aren’t the worst for it, but some people would absolutely defend two different duds (Murphy, Etuhu, or others) who the manager was picking.

Chaddy?

[roverandout]

4 minutes ago, Biz said:

Call me modern if you like but I’d say there’s more to a footballer than just goals, even upfront. If there wasn’t, Nuttall would be hailed as the second coming of Jesus.

And for the last time, I was replying to; “Whatever we could have done with it, it would have been better than what we actually did!”

The ridiculous reply about Murphy/Etuhu was  to point out just how wrong the above statement is.

Now jog on.

Ban him

[JBiz]

2 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Ban him

For saying Jog on? Jesus, anything to have your echo chamber back.

[roverandout]

Just now, Biz said:

For saying Jog on? Jesus, anything to have your echo chamber back.

I got banned for less

[Eddie]

20 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Presume Reed also comes under the category "jury still out" then?

Armstrong cannot be judged on his loan spell last season. Wasnt here long enough to be judged.

Would I guarantee that Reed would be a long term success? No. He wouldn't be the first player to do well on a loan spell here and then fail. Obviously, he is a bit different to Brereton because he's more experienced and dropped down a level to play here. 

The jury is still out on Armstrong. A great loan spell in league one, a poor first half of the season the Championship, and now a good run of a few weeks. 

 

[Tom Stinny]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

 

“Travis he fell on” sums up the angle you are coming at here. Him and Richie started the same game vs Sheff united, so try not to make things up to suit your arguments either.

In my opinion, the Senior players improved under TM;

Graham, Bennett, Conway, Evans.

Younger players improved and/or signed by TM;

Raya, Nyambe, Lenihan, Bell, Travis, Armstrong, Dack.

Theres probably examples ive missed from those lists but to say “not the type to develop players” is ridiculous in my opinion mate, even if Ben hasnt made the grade yet.

 

He did fall on Travis. Playing him every now and then isn't developing a player. I'm sure Evans was unavailable for that game as well but might be wrong on that.

 

You didn't answer my question though about Brereton. Guess we'll skim over that as it doesn't suit the argument. 

 

Grahams always been class since Lambert brought him in. Bennet runs around a lot but besides from his media duties isn't much use at this level. Evans plays when he wants which goes all the way back to bowyer. Conway is a busted flush at this level. Hardy call them improved?

 

Raya seems to make the same mistake every 2-3 games which hasn't been fixed. Nyambe has improved but for some reason isn't being played now even when fit. Many were calling Bell a liability not long ago and Armstrong like I said has only started to step up in last few games.

 

Again, everyone knew Dack was class.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Tom Stinny

[JBiz]

27 minutes ago, Tom Stinny said:

He did fall on Travis. Playing him every now and then isn't developing a player. I'm sure Evans was unavailable for that game as well but might be wrong on that.

 

You didn't answer my question though about Brereton. Guess we'll skim over that as it doesn't suit the argument. 

 

Grahams always been class since Lambert brought him in. Bennet runs around a lot but besides from his media duties isn't much use at this level. Evans plays when he wants which goes all the way back to bowyer. Conway is a busted flush at this level. Hardy call them improved?

The question you asked me doesn’t need a response, because we didn’t just make one signing, and a few of them had a bit of experience at this level.

I also ignored it, as it’s simply isolating a response to a ridiculous remark, Tom.

If you’re truly interested in what my overall view of that deal is easy to find on this website, thread etc.

Your sweeping statements against all those players and Mowbrays impact just show a lack of understanding from my perspective. Easy examples, Graham has been a great player that TM gets the most of even in his later years, Bennett has become a leader, the vice captain, and he’s been utilised in many positions to cover injuries - and not done too badly either. There’s plenty of argument to suggest that’s his best role in this squad.

Evans has improved under Mowbray. I’d like to bring anyone else into this discussion who disagrees with that statement and their reasons.

Conway was a discussion in the summer, and I can see why many thought his time was up. But for minimal cost, and without questioning the manager’s published opinion about him being a good character in the dressing room - he has still had a decent impact. Particularly the Sheff Wednesday game, and in a couple of other cameos.

On the younger lads - I don’t expect consistency yet because that’s what you get trying to develop players like we are. There’s bound to be mistakes, but look at Darragh - times this season he’s been as dominant as any centre half we’ve had since 2011, one that gets headed goals n the box too. You’re simply just writing people off and I’ll never subscribe to that.

I’m not suggesting that things couldn’t be done better, that’s never been the case. Even under big Sam, Hughes, Souness etc.

What I am firmly in the camp of - the direction we are heading is up. That’s because 9/10 decisions our club management have taken since Mowbray was appointed resulted in us moving forward.

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Biz

[roversfan99]

Out of interest @Biz away from debate on individual players.

Do you have any worries or are you particularly critical of the fact that we have surrendered over 20 points from winning positions (I think it was 18 prior to yesterday), that we have conceded so many goals including more than 2 of the bottom 3, and that often when we get beat, the heads seem to go down and we get battered? (yesterday, Bristol City, Preston, Sheffield United etc)

This doesnt fall into or concern whether you think we are meeting expectations overall, or going in the right direction.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, Biz said:

The question you asked me doesn’t need a response, because we didn’t just make one signing, and a few of them had a bit of experience at this level.

I also ignored it, as it’s simply isolating a response to a ridiculous remark, Tom.

If you’re truly interested in what my overall view of that deal is easy to find on this website, thread etc.

Your sweeping statements against all those players and Mowbrays impact just show a lack of understanding from my perspective. Easy examples, Graham has been a great player that TM gets the most of even in his later years, Bennett has become a leader, the vice captain, and he’s been utilised in many positions to cover injuries - and not done too badly either. There’s plenty of argument to suggest that’s his best role in this squad.

Evans has improved under Mowbray. I’d like to bring anyone else into this discussion who disagrees with that statement and their reasons.

Conway was a discussion in the summer, and I can see why many thought his time was up. But for minimal cost, and without questioning the manager’s published opinion about him being a good character in the dressing room - he has still had a decent impact. Particularly the Sheff Wednesday game, and in a couple of other cameos.

I’m not suggesting that things couldn’t be done better, that’s never been the case. Even under big Sam, Hughes, Souness etc.

What I am firmly in the camp of - the direction we are heading is up. That’s because 9/10 decisions our club management have taken since Mowbray was appointed resulted in us moving forward.

 

You have an astonishingly rose tinted perspective on things.

imo Graham is all but finished and even if he wasn't it isn't exactly desirable for your game plan to consist of lumping a long ball up to a (near) 34 year old.

Bennett has never been any good for us during his time at the Club in any position other than a briefly very effective spell in League 1 in central midfield. Funnily enough the central midfield position seems to be the only position TM won't play him in and as a result we have to watch him labouring woefully in every other area of the pitch. But still he's great, because he gives the crowd a massive fist bump after the match if we win so let's forget his deficiencies on the pitch eh?

Evans had a great game against Hull but you can count the number of good games he's had on one hand since his bad injury when Bowyer was here. Terrible player. Lowe Mark 2 

Conway, completely past it, as Tom said last night one good game in the last two and a half seasons. Should never have been handed a new deal.

My overall view is that the momentum derived from winning promotion last season which rolled overvinto a solid start this campaign will see us safe but if the manager doesn't cut out the old pals act and get a lot more ruthless then there's only one way we're going over the next one - two seaons and it certainly isn't up

[JBiz]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Out of interest @Biz away from debate on individual players.

Do you have any worries or are you particularly critical of the fact that we have surrendered over 20 points from winning positions (I think it was 18 prior to yesterday), that we have conceded so many goals including more than 2 of the bottom 3, and that often when we get beat, the heads seem to go down and we get battered? (yesterday, Bristol City, Preston, Sheffield United etc)

This doesnt fall into or concern whether you think we are meeting expectations overall, or going in the right direction.

I could quite easily say that the amount of points we have amassed, our attacking threat and our impressive home form is ignored because it doesn’t fall into the criticism bracket.

Just to put that into context - we’ve scored a lot of goals and in nearly every game we’ve played - we’ve either contested or at least had consistent enough spells to be in with a shot of winning the game.

Equally we tend to concede goals in game when we are gung ho attempting to win, you say give up.

 

 

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

You have an astonishingly rose tinted perspective on things.

imo Graham is all but finished and even if he wasn't it isn't exactly desirable for your game plan to consist of lumping a long ball up to a (near) 34 year old.

Bennett has never been any good for us during his time at the Club in any position other than a briefly very effective spell in League 1 in central midfield. Funnily enough the central midfield position seems to be the only position TM won't play him in and as a result we have to watch him labouring woefully in every other area of the pitch. But still he's great, because he gives the crowd a massive fist bump after the match if we win so let's forget his deficiencies on the pitch eh?

Evans had a great game against Hull but you can count the number of good games he's had on one hand since his bad injury when Bowyer was here. Terrible player. Lowe Mark 2 

Conway, completely past it, as Tom said last night one good game in the last two and a half seasons. Should never have been handed a new deal.

My overall view is that the momentum derived from winning promotion last season which rolled overvinto a solid start this campaign will see us safe but if the manager doesn't cut out the old pals act and get a lot more ruthless then there's only one way we're going over the next one - two seaons and it certainly isn't up

You have an astonishingly stubborn nature to criticise things you can’t see through ignorance.

That literally makes any response to your further criticisms of Graham and Bennett pointless.

If momentum is the only thing that’s put us here, what about Wigan?

[Ewood Ace]

13 minutes ago, Biz said:

Your sweeping statements against all those players and Mowbrays impact just show a lack of understanding from my perspective. Easy examples, Graham has been a great player that TM gets the most of even in his later years, Bennett has become a leader, the vice captain, and he’s been utilised in many positions to cover injuries - and not done too badly either. There’s plenty of argument to suggest that’s his best role in this squad.

Evans has improved under Mowbray. I’d like to bring anyone else into this discussion who disagrees with that statement and their reasons.

Conway was a discussion in the summer, and I can see why many thought his time was up. But for minimal cost, and without questioning the manager’s published opinion about him being a good character in the dressing room - he has still had a decent impact. Particularly the Sheff Wednesday game, and in a couple of other cameos.

On the younger lads - I don’t expect consistency yet because that’s what you get trying to develop players like we are. There’s bound to be mistakes, but look at Darragh - times this season he’s been as dominant as any centre half we’ve had since 2011, one that gets headed goals n the box too. You’re simply just writing people off and I’ll never subscribe to that.

Bennett is a jack of all trades master of none, he runs about but brings no real quality. I've said it time and time again but he is a very poor right back and average at best in a more advanced role. For me he doesn't get into our best starting 11.

Evans is Evans a few performances where he looks as good as anything in the league followed by a few performances where you barely notice that he's playing and then probably an injury. There's a reason why he hasn't got a move to a promotion chasing club or the premiership like other players that played in Bowyer's team did and I think that is because he goes missing to often. 

Conway should never have been given a new contract, he looked of the pace whenever he featured in League 1 last season. A purely sentimental decision to give him a new contract and one half decent game against Sheffield Wednesday is no justification for giving him one.

As for Lenihan I wouldn't say he has progressed under Mowbray. Coyle putting him at Centre back and his performances there in our relegation season was one of the few bright points of the season and one of the few good things Coyle did. I've actually been disappointed with Lenihan this season I was hoping that he was really going to kick on but if anything he hasn't played as well as he did in his previous season at this level. Considering he's nearly 25 and an international he is still incredibly rash.  

 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Biz said:

I could quite easily say that the amount of points we have amassed, our attacking threat and our impressive home form is ignored because it doesn’t fall into the criticism bracket.

Just to put that into context - we’ve scored a lot of goals and in nearly every game we’ve played - we’ve either contested or at least had consistent enough spells to be in with a shot of winning the game.

Equally we tend to concede goals in game when we are gung ho attempting to win, you say give up.

 

 

The problem is you seem to be unable to accept negative aspects of his reign or criticize him at all under the umbrella that we has done a good job and are meeting, or in your opinion exceeding expecations.

He has done a good job and ive never questioned it. Take in attacking positions, hes signed many players who to varying degrees, have had limited to no positive impact on our team so far; Antonsson, Samuel, Palmer, Nuttall, Rothwell, Brereton and Gladwin. We are reliant on the trio of Graham, Dack and Armstrong, which is an area Mowbray has done very well to get firing as it is, with Graham as fit and as effective as hes ever been here and Armstrong and in particular Dack 2 assets that have been signed for cheap with bundles of potential to improve and who are already incredibly effective.

I do also feel that he has somewhat neglected the defence, and it shows in our terrible defensive record. I particularly worry as to our inability to see out wins. Because the points tally we have amassed is pretty impressive but just because of that, lets not gloss over such a primary reason that we arent doing better than we are at the moment. Mowbray has done an unquestionably good job but lets not escape the areas that need to be improved.

[Bigdoggsteel]

24 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Bennett is a jack of all trades master of none, he runs about but brings no real quality. I've said it time and time again but he is a very poor right back and average at best in a more advanced role. For me he doesn't get into our best starting 11.

Evans is Evans a few performances where he looks as good as anything in the league followed by a few performances where you barely notice that he's playing and then probably an injury. There's a reason why he hasn't got a move to a promotion chasing club or the premiership like other players that played in Bowyer's team did and I think that is because he goes missing to often. 

Conway should never have been given a new contract, he looked of the pace whenever he featured in League 1 last season. A purely sentimental decision to give him a new contract and one half decent game against Sheffield Wednesday is no justification for giving him one.

As for Lenihan I wouldn't say he has progressed under Mowbray. Coyle putting him at Centre back and his performances there in our relegation season was one of the few bright points of the season and one of the few good things Coyle did. I've actually been disappointed with Lenihan this season I was hoping that he was really going to kick on but if anything he hasn't played as well as he did in his previous season at this level. Considering he's nearly 25 and an international he is still incredibly rash.  

 

Can't disagree with any of that to be fair 

[RevidgeBlue]

19 minutes ago, Biz said:

You have an astonishingly stubborn nature to criticise things you can’t see through ignorance.

That literally makes any response to your further criticisms of Graham and Bennett pointless.

If momentum is the only thing that’s put us here, what about Wigan?

Not sure why you have to brand anyone who has a different opinion to yourself as "ignorant" nor do you have a crystal ball as to what might happen in the future so both of us are second guessing how things will pan out. If TM doesn't change his ways then one of us may well be proven correct with hindsight. 

What have Wigan got to do with anything? Completely irrelevant.  I'm talking about the effect promotion had on US. I haven't checked the points to games ratio since Preston away but I wouldn't imagine it makes particularly encouraging reading for next season.

[JBiz]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Not sure why you have to brand anyone who has a different opinion to yourself as "ignorant" nor do you have a crystal ball as to what might happen in the future so both of us are second guessing how things will pan out. If TM doesn't change his ways then one of us may well be proven correct with hindsight. 

What have Wigan got to do with anything? Completely irrelevant.  I'm talking about the effect promotion had on US. I haven't checked the points to games ratio since Preston away but I wouldn't imagine it makes particularly encouraging reading for next season.

Wigan came up too so the idea that momentum is the reason we’ve had a decent start should apply to them, should it not?

If you don’t like the spiky replies, don’t start off posts with rose tinted spectacle stuff - because that’s exactly the same- it’s suggesting any viewpoint is entrenched in some sort of misguided bias.

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The problem is you seem to be unable to accept negative aspects of his reign or criticize him at all under the umbrella that we has done a good job and are meeting, or in your opinion exceeding expecations.

He has done a good job and ive never questioned it. Take in attacking positions, hes signed many players who to varying degrees, have had limited to no positive impact on our team so far; Antonsson, Samuel, Palmer, Nuttall, Rothwell, Brereton and Gladwin. We are reliant on the trio of Graham, Dack and Armstrong, which is an area Mowbray has done very well to get firing as it is, with Graham as fit and as effective as hes ever been here and Armstrong and in particular Dack 2 assets that have been signed for cheap with bundles of potential to improve and who are already incredibly effective.

I do also feel that he has somewhat neglected the defence, and it shows in our terrible defensive record. I particularly worry as to our inability to see out wins. Because the points tally we have amassed is pretty impressive but just because of that, lets not gloss over such a primary reason that we arent doing better than we are at the moment. Mowbray has done an unquestionably good job but lets not escape the areas that need to be improved.

There’s some negative aspects but they are completely outweighed by the positive elements - which are regurlatly ignored by you and others. 

Defensively, I’d like to see more investment too - but I’m under no illusion that this was ever a simple or cheap job. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Biz said:

Wigan came up too so the idea that momentum is the reason we’ve had a decent start should apply to them, should it not?

If you don’t like the spiky replies, don’t start off posts with rose tinted spectacle stuff - because that’s exactly the same- it’s suggesting any viewpoint is entrenched in some sort of misguided bias.

There’s some negative aspects but they are completely outweighed by the positive elements - which are regurlatly ignored by you and others. 

Defensively, I’d like to see more investment too - but I’m under no illusion that this was ever a simple or cheap job. 

I just gave Mowbray credit for being the architect of a very dangerous attacking trio, signing 2 of them and getting the best out of the third.

I have also been consistent in stating that whilst I feel like his transfer dealings have been at best mixed, he has pulled a few rabbits out of the hat but for me his best work has been with the players he inherited. I agree that Evans has been a different player this season and at the back end of last season. Graham is the obvious one, hes been a good player throughout his time but he seems as fit as hes ever been. I also have seen signs of development in both Raya and Nyambe.

I have continuously stated that to get promoted was a good achievement and that we are meeting expectations this, but that isnt the end of my judgement. Even when you are meeting expectations, theres no need to cap ambition there, especially considering we are in the top half, not that far from the play offs. 

Your desperation to tag anyone who criticises any aspect of Mowbrays tenure as a doom merchant must be clouding your judgement.

[JBiz]

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I just gave Mowbray credit for being the architect of a very dangerous attacking trio, signing 2 of them and getting the best out of the third.

I have also been consistent in stating that whilst I feel like his transfer dealings have been at best mixed, he has pulled a few rabbits out of the hat but for me his best work has been with the players he inherited. I agree that Evans has been a different player this season and at the back end of last season. Graham is the obvious one, hes been a good player throughout his time but he seems as fit as hes ever been. I also have seen signs of development in both Raya and Nyambe.

I have continuously stated that to get promoted was a good achievement and that we are meeting expectations this, but that isnt the end of my judgement. Even when you are meeting expectations, theres no need to cap ambition there, especially considering we are in the top half, not that far from the play offs. 

Your desperation to tag anyone who criticises any aspect of Mowbrays tenure as a doom merchant must be clouding your judgement.

Jesus you say a lot without saying much RF  

You used the phrase doom merchant, not me.

I also have made it clear I disagree with many of the common criticisms, that’s hardly an attitude of ignoring any criticism.

If you agreed with me about Evans, why not quote Stinny who thinks this is nothing to do with Mowbray?

Edited February 3, 2019 by Biz

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

46 minutes ago, Biz said:

Wigan came up too so the idea that momentum is the reason we’ve had a decent start should apply to them, should it not?

If you don’t like the spiky replies, don’t start off posts with rose tinted spectacle stuff - because that’s exactly the same- it’s suggesting any viewpoint is entrenched in some sort of misguided bias.

There’s some negative aspects but they are completely outweighed by the positive elements - which are regurlatly ignored by you and others. 

Defensively, I’d like to see more investment too - but I’m under no illusion that this was ever a simple or cheap job. 

I think we could have got a pretty good centre half for £7 million.