JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW

[Paul Mani]

3 minutes ago, Biz said:

Only plausible explanations? I accept you may see with only two options, so black and white but I do not.

There is plenty of things I’d suggest impact his  usage on the field that don’t include his price or a pay by you play loan deal....

Just a selection since I’m waiting for a lift and the bar stool is late;

1. The manager himself just after signing said “Let's forget about the price now and concentrate on the player. He's a 19-year-old boy.” 

2. We play one centreforward 

3. We have Armstrong who is arguably deserved of a priority due to last season (like a few others, another comment from manager about giving them a chance is available)

4. Brererton has spent 99% of his entire career at one club, certain style, people, training, team mates, etc - not all players acclimatise instantly.

5. We attempted to sign other forwards prior to B.B. and thus one would predict wasn’t first choice or expected to be as good instantly.

Plenty of others related to style of play, attitude, fitness, Danny Graham’s impact, Kasey Palmer being used as a number 10 - arguably his best position but can you drop Dack? Etc etc 

The price may be seen as more as a long term investment, and like AA, never played premier league football = softer wages = more to pay on transfer cost. Whilst this is a financial aspect - I believe it might be worth considering that 7m (even if it does get to that) in 2018, regardless of past records - is paltry to adding the monthly cost that teams such as Forest, added to their bills this previous summer, through wages.

7m upfront from us (unlikely) would only pay for 5 new players on 30k a week in wages for one season!

Arrogance to suggest no plausible reason in your own mind means = it must be implausible.

As I said earlier - the Brererton deal offers a potential “axe to grind” and there is absolutely no coincidence those most willing to wield it have been 5/10 on Mowbray for some time.

Wow - I stand shoulder to shoulder with this guy. 100% nailed. This is the type of opinion you only usually hear from football people. You in / been in the game mate? 

[JBiz]

9 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Wow - I stand shoulder to shoulder with this guy. 100% nailed. This is the type of opinion you only usually hear from football people. You in / been in the game mate? 

Ask @K-Hod hahaha

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Biz said:

Ask @K-Hod hahaha

Knew it!! 

[Stuart]

37 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I would have said it's far from laughable. What is laughable is that we've agreed to pay £7m for a player who although fit has yet to start a League game.

The only 2 plausible explanations are 

1) We have to pay a hefty premium every time he starts a game prior to the move being made permanent.

or

2) He wasn't TM's choice and TM either doesn't fancy him or is deliberately omitting him to make a point that he's the boss.

It’s as simple as that for me, Rev. No conspiracy, no nefariousness. Just an ill-judged signing, or one where we had to accept some limitations. 

If he suddenly features more after 1st Jan then there was something in the loan agree. IMHO.

What I find odd is that we have first hand experience of the kind of senseless clauses that go into a contract, yet suggest it as a rational and it’s tinfoil hat time.

Lest we forget, most people read messageboards for rumour and speculation. Why shouldn’t we speculate?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Apologies, I’ll reply instead;

The idea we are limiting his appearances for financial reasons is laughable. 

Yeah, the Chicken Chokers wouldn't do that would they ?

[Stuart]

https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/transfer-news/signing-ben-brereton-opportunity-good-1946842

Mowbray on Brereton: "He's six foot three, he can travel with the ball, he can dribble, he can power past people, he can run without it, he can create, he can cross, he can shoot, he can affect football matches.”

When, in training?

Give the lad a chance, Tony. Especially when Graham is out. Why change formation and tactics to avoid playing him?

[RevidgeBlue]

12 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Wow - I stand shoulder to shoulder with this guy. 100% nailed. This is the type of opinion you only usually hear from football people. You in / been in the game mate? 

Hate that sort of arrogant attitude that implies that everything a football professional says or does is correct whereas the opinion of someone who isn't a football professional is worthless.  

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Extremely disingenuous to go on about net transfer cost without including estimated wage costs.

For example - the article I read about Paddy Bamford at leeds suggested he’s on 30+k a week. I’d estimate that even the combined wage of  A.A. and B.B. falls below that figure, so suggesting we “blew” Norwich and co “out of the water” when they are signing loans and covering players on 50k a week like Rhodes, is quite frankly- Wrong!

Maybe, but you can't argue that £7 million (IF TRUE) is a huge amount by anyone's standards in this league, and much more than most could afford to pay for a single player. So when people come on bemoaning the spending power of other clubs in this league I think that is disingenuous when most sides haven't been anywhere near a net spend of £10 million.

[JacknOry]

27 minutes ago, Biz said:

Only plausible explanations? I accept you may see with only two options, so black and white but I do not.

There is plenty of things I’d suggest impact his  usage on the field that don’t include his price or a pay by you play loan deal....

Just a selection since I’m waiting for a lift and the bar stool is late;

1. The manager himself just after signing said “Let's forget about the price now and concentrate on the player. He's a 19-year-old boy.” With 50 games (35 starts) in the championship since he was 17 at a club better placed than us in that time. Besides, this BOY nonsense is just that, Nonsense. Eze E is a boy the same age and he is tearing it up. 

2. We play one centreforward (not sure how this is relevant, simply because nobody expects him to dislodge DG straight away, just that he should be next in line at his cost instead of attacking midfielders that have never played there)

3. We have Armstrong who is arguably deserved of a priority due to last season (like a few others, another comment from manager about giving them a chance is available) has been given chances and not taken them

4. Brererton has spent 99% of his entire career at one club, certain style, people, training, team mates, etc - not all players acclimatise instantly. He hasnt come from Uzbekistein

5. We attempted to sign other forwards prior to B.B. and thus one would predict wasn’t first choice or expected to be as good instantly. I would suggest we just wanted the money spent hence bids for Freeman etc, smacks a little of desperation if a 7 mil player is not deemed good enough.

Plenty of others related to style of play, attitude, fitness, Danny Graham’s impact, Kasey Palmer being used as a number 10 - arguably his best position but can you drop Dack? Etc etc 

The price may be seen as more as a long term investment, and like AA, never played premier league football = softer wages = more to pay on transfer cost. Whilst this is a financial aspect - I believe it might be worth considering that 7m (even if it does get to that) in 2018, regardless of past records - is paltry to adding the monthly cost that teams such as Forest, added to their bills this previous summer, through wages.

7m upfront from us (unlikely) would only pay for 5 new players on 30k a week in wages for one season!

Arrogance to suggest no plausible reason in your own mind means = it must be implausible.

As I said earlier - the Brererton deal offers a potential “axe to grind” and there is absolutely no coincidence those most willing to wield it have been 5/10 on Mowbray for some time.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Hate that sort of arrogant attitude that implies that everything a football professional says or does is correct whereas the opinion of someone who isn't a football professional is worthless.  

There are guys who been in the pro game all their lives getting fired on a daily basis because they got things wrong once too often

[Paul Mani]

4 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Hate that sort of arrogant attitude that implies that everything a football professional says or does is correct whereas the opinion of someone who isn't a football professional is worthless.  

I hate listening to people who form opinions to fit their own narrative without having the knowledge or actually looking at the evidence. So I guess we’ve all got to put up with people.

Its a message board after all. Just opinions.

[JacknOry]

3 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

There are guys who been in the pro game all their lives getting fired on a daily basis because they got things wrong once too often

A certain Sol Campbell will be the next - arrogance at its most extreme.

[Paul Mani]

1 minute ago, JacknOry said:

A certain Sol Campbell will be the next - arrogance at its most extreme.

Now that guy is an absolute crank!! He had even more wild ideas than some on here! ??

[blueboy3333]

9 hours ago, Biz said:

Also had about 8 windows didn’t he? And not one of them in the third tier.

He didn't have eight, Donald, he had 5, of which at least one was spent under an embargo.  He also spent a lot less than Mowbray has spent in the three windows he's had. 

Apart from that, good post 

[blueboy3333]

9 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

The fact that after twenty-one games we are in a more than comfortable position, particularly as a newly promoted club, probably justifies Mowbray's decision to keep faith with the old guard for the moment.

...and by the same token it doesn't justify his decision to spend £7m on someone who isn't better than the old guard.  

[deryck guyler's spoon]

5 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

...and by the same token it doesn't justify his decision to spend £7m on someone who isn't better than the old guard.  

Is the jury in on Brereton then?

[blueboy3333]

47 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Wow - I stand shoulder to shoulder with this guy. 100% nailed. This is the type of opinion you only usually hear from football people. You in / been in the game mate?  

[blueboy3333]

38 minutes ago, Stuart said:

https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/transfer-news/signing-ben-brereton-opportunity-good-1946842

Mowbray on Brereton: "He's six foot three, he can travel with the ball, he can dribble, he can power past people, he can run without it, he can create, he can cross, he can shoot, he can affect football matches.”

When, in training?

Give the lad a chance, Tony. Especially when Graham is out. Why change formation and tactics to avoid playing him?

Mogga had me at 'he can run without it'. A rare talent. 

He sounds like the best player we've got, and at £7m he should be. 

[tomphil]

Are those comments on Brereton cut and paste from his ramblings about Gladwin ?

[Oldgregg86]

8 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

If anyone says we don’t need any more midfielders they obviously have more patience with the Smallwood/Evans love-in than i do)

I'm with you. If we are ever to progress as a team both should be nowhere near a starting 11. They will tide us over until summer but that is an area that needs strengthening massively. 

I understand why Tony says we need to build over a few windows when you look at the positions that need strengthening to compete at the top end

[Paul Mani]

40 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

I'm with you. If we are ever to progress as a team both should be nowhere near a starting 11. They will tide us over until summer but that is an area that needs strengthening massively. 

I understand why Tony says we need to build over a few windows when you look at the positions that need strengthening to compete at the top end

Completely agree. If we want to go up then long term we need to improve at CB, LB, 2 x DM plus 2 x AM’s (we don’t play with wingers but I’d like pace) Robinson from Preston? 

I still believe that we’ll try to get a mainline striker (loan), Reed  and Chapman permenant this window following Brereton perm.

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

Only plausible explanations? I accept you may see with only two options, so black and white but I do not.

There is plenty of things I’d suggest impact his  usage on the field that don’t include his price or a pay by you play loan deal....

Just a selection since I’m waiting for a lift and the bar stool is late;

1. The manager himself just after signing said “Let's forget about the price now and concentrate on the player. He's a 19-year-old boy.” 

2. We play one centreforward 

3. We have Armstrong who is arguably deserved of a priority due to last season (like a few others, another comment from manager about giving them a chance is available)

4. Brererton has spent 99% of his entire career at one club, certain style, people, training, team mates, etc - not all players acclimatise instantly.

5. We attempted to sign other forwards prior to B.B. and thus one would predict wasn’t first choice or expected to be as good instantly.

Plenty of others related to style of play, attitude, fitness, Danny Graham’s impact, Kasey Palmer being used as a number 10 - arguably his best position but can you drop Dack? Etc etc 

The price may be seen as more as a long term investment, and like AA, never played premier league football = softer wages = more to pay on transfer cost. Whilst this is a financial aspect - I believe it might be worth considering that 7m (even if it does get to that) in 2018, regardless of past records - is paltry to adding the monthly cost that teams such as Forest, added to their bills this previous summer, through wages.

7m upfront from us (unlikely) would only pay for 5 new players on 30k a week in wages for one season!

I don't actually agree at all with any of your points there.

1) He's not concentrating on the player by not giving him a chance is he? It seems to me that paying a huge fee for the lad then refusing to hand him a start or play him in his natural position is the best way to destroy his confidence.

2) If he wanted to carry on playing that system, all the more reason why the main summer signing needed to be someone capable of coming in and replacing Graham.

3) Armstrong isn't being given a chance in his preferred position either and is suffering accordingly

4) Good players can adapt instantly

5) Don't understand this point. We chose to pay £7m for him,  whether he was first choice or 5th choice is completely irrelevant. For that price he has to be ready.

My main gripe with your argument though is this assumption that BB will be on low wages. Do we KNOW for a fact that this is the case or is it simply something you've invented to suit your argument?

If I was BB's agent I'd want him to be on top whack if I was negotiating a deal of that magnitude.

[Blow-in]

7 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Fits the profile and age. Would hit the ground running. ??

Yes, new leftback sorted.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Hate that sort of arrogant attitude that implies that everything a football professional says or does is correct whereas the opinion of someone who isn't a football professional is worthless.  

Couldnt agree more. Makes this place totally pointless for one.

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I hate listening to people who form opinions to fit their own narrative without having the knowledge or actually looking at the evidence. So I guess we’ve all got to put up with people.

Its a message board after all. Just opinions.

As long as they are the opinions of a professional manager or coach?

3 hours ago, Biz said:

Only plausible explanations? I accept you may see with only two options, so black and white but I do not.

There is plenty of things I’d suggest impact his  usage on the field that don’t include his price or a pay by you play loan deal....

Just a selection since I’m waiting for a lift and the bar stool is late;

1. The manager himself just after signing said “Let's forget about the price now and concentrate on the player. He's a 19-year-old boy.” 

2. We play one centreforward 

3. We have Armstrong who is arguably deserved of a priority due to last season (like a few others, another comment from manager about giving them a chance is available)

4. Brererton has spent 99% of his entire career at one club, certain style, people, training, team mates, etc - not all players acclimatise instantly.

5. We attempted to sign other forwards prior to B.B. and thus one would predict wasn’t first choice or expected to be as good instantly.

Plenty of others related to style of play, attitude, fitness, Danny Graham’s impact, Kasey Palmer being used as a number 10 - arguably his best position but can you drop Dack? Etc etc 

The price may be seen as more as a long term investment, and like AA, never played premier league football = softer wages = more to pay on transfer cost. Whilst this is a financial aspect - I believe it might be worth considering that 7m (even if it does get to that) in 2018, regardless of past records - is paltry to adding the monthly cost that teams such as Forest, added to their bills this previous summer, through wages.

7m upfront from us (unlikely) would only pay for 5 new players on 30k a week in wages for one season!

Arrogance to suggest no plausible reason in your own mind means = it must be implausible.

As I said earlier - the Brererton deal offers a potential “axe to grind” and there is absolutely no coincidence those most willing to wield it have been 5/10 on Mowbray for some time.

@JacknOry responds to these points in excellent detail.

There is a myth circulating that Rovers fans are expecting loads from Brereton already and its blatantly not true.

There is also a myth that it is ok for him to be solely a project, as if hes an untested kid. Hes got plenty of game time under his belt at Forest at this level. Point 1 defunct.

The reason point 2 is moot is because Mowbray wont consider Brereton to be a striker, one of the key elements of the whole debate.

Armstrong doesnt play up front either. Thats point 3.

Understand that he will take a bit of time to acclimatise but hes part of the squad and again going back to the myth, just  having him as a second choice striker with Graham ahead of him is hardly expecting loads.

The Palmer and Dack experiment, and the Dack up top experiment simply didnt work. Surely testing the waters with a young, talented striker with Championship experience made more sense. Surely you cant really defend them choices.

[JBiz]

15 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I don't actually agree at all with any of your points there.

1) He's not concentrating on the player by not giving him a chance is he? It seems to me that paying a huge fee for the lad then refusing to hand him a start or play him in his natural position is the best way to destroy his confidence.

2) If he wanted to carry on playing that system, all the more reason why the main summer signing needed to be someone capable of coming in and replacing Graham.

3) Armstrong isn't being given a chance in his preferred position either and is suffering accordingly

4) Good players can adapt instantly

5) Don't understand this point. We chose to pay £7m for him,  whether he was first choice or 5th choice is completely irrelevant. For that price he has to be ready.

My main gripe with your argument though is this assumption that BB will be on low wages. Do we KNOW for a fact that this is the case or is it simply something you've invented to suit your argument?

If I was BB's agent I'd want him to be on top whack if I was negotiating a deal of that magnitude.

Good for you, I’m proud of you. I’d expect you to disagree with everything I’ve ever said if you genuinely believe the only two possible plausible reasons for Brererton not starting yet are;

1. Dodgy finance on loan AKA team impacted by financial choice not just manager

or

2. Brererton forced on manager and he’s binning him off to make a point...

In reply to your reasoning; Assumption he is on low wages though, I would call any figure an assumption since it’s not published. Doesn’t take a genius to understand why players with premier league experience or higher get paid more though does it?

Armstrong is being given the same chance as last season, just because you’d play a different setup means little to the facts. 

The last point to make is you seemingly think it’s a simple! As if, we needed to replace Graham or at least have good quality cover... It’s not simple as googling the necessities.. it’s not ordering through CPC!