JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Apprentice a more suitable word? 

That then brings us back round to, could we afford to blow most of our budget on someone seen as an apprentice?! That cannot contribute and provide at least pressure on Graham for his spot? Yes hes only 19, but considering his price tag and his reputation following 2 seasons of regular Championship football, I think we all thought he would be seen as more than an "apprentice." Thats the first aspect of why this signing is so dubious.

4 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Wrong about what? If you go into the thread where posters said they think we will finish, plenty said they would be happy with just survival. Personally I think clubs who go up should have momentum and do well in the league above. 

Of course Mowbray will say it will take time. He inherited a squad about to be relegated. It would be incredibly naive of him to be coming out saying we could get promoted this year. I am sure Mowbray has those attributes and belief, I just don't understand how you think him coming out saying we could get promoted this season would be a good idea. 

 

Anyone who was happy with just survivial is both massively unambitious and pessimistic. We have a competitive, mid table budget for wages, we have a very healthy transfer budget (which we choose to mainly splurge on an "apprentice") and many of our players have proven track records at Championship level. Lets not be fooled by a season under Coyle where we had the likes of Brown, Greer, Lowe, Akpan, Feeney, Emnes and Hoban on short term deals that Mowbray managed to shed off with ease at the end of that season.

4 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Jesus, give the lad time. He is here a few months. 

And the second aspect of this signing. We know hes young, hes raw. But he hasnt shown ANY positive attributes. Pace, skill, strength, a first touch, aeriel ability, goal threat, even a first touch or work rate to chase the ball down when hes fresh.

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

I didn't say that.

As a supporter, I don't want a manager telling me it will take several transfer windows to mount a promotion push.

This is a manager who has just spent £10million+ in the last window and in the main, I think we play shyte football and I can see little evidence of a playing structure / philosophy emerging.  I think we are light years away from mounting a promotion push.  In my book, Mowbray flatters to deceive.

 

1 hour ago, S8 & Blue said:

Instant gratification generation out in full force again I see.

Can’t believe you’d prefer a manager to blow smoke up your arse or be deluded enough to think that our squad even has the bare bones of a promotion team in it.

Personally I think it’s extremely positive that Mowbray talks about 3-4 windows and we should “expect to be challenging” - it’s realistic yet still ambitious given what has happened to the team over the last few years.

I think Mercer makes a very valid point about style of play, our reliance on long balls and reluctance to as of yet even remotely move towards the style of play that Mowbray  repeatedly mentions he would like to move towards is a concern in terms of progression; when will we see steps towards this on the pitch?

However, to suggest as he has that Mowbray is a "dinosaur" and that we should instantly expect promotion is a bit ridiculous, albeit it is unfair to stretch your "instant gratification generation" comment to anyone beside him, S8 & Blue. And before you mention Brereton, please see my comments above on why he warrants his criticism for me.

As you say, it is sensible, normal and realistic to have a plan to gradually develop the team, window by window. My only concern in this regard is Mowbrays success/failure in the transfer market, and how progressive I can see this process being.

I feel like his work in the transfer market has left a lot to be desired. Dack was obviously an absolute masterstroke by him but aside from that, its been very patchy. His other signings last year ranged from ones that could have a short term impact at League 1 level (Downing, Armstrong, Antonsson, Payne, Smallwood) to some absolute wasters. (Gladwin, Hart, Whittingham and Samuel has been poor) With greater resources, he hasnt improved the side at all really in the summer bar the temporary addition of Reed, and I also worry that turning a blind eye to the foreign market and seemingly focusing on the same pool of players (Gallagher, Chapman) will stunt our progression.

This isnt to say Mowbray is a poor manager or one who shouldnt be trusted. I think a lot of his quality lies with his man management and also his ability to get more from the players he inherited. But he will have to massively improve in the transfer market.

[Stuart]

5 hours ago, gumboots said:

I don't want to be controversial or stir a hornets' nest that's being dealt with elsewhere but how will Brexit affect future recruitment from Europe? Will the rules about needing to play so many international games apply there? In which case recruiting from abroad suddenly becomes a whole lot harder as players we'd be looking to pick up would not be current internationals

Well, it may stop very average foreign players standing in the way of British youngster just because of an EU passport.

Players will need to be a bit more outstanding in their field to be able to apply for a work permit.

https://latitudelaw.com/news/the-fas-policy-on-non-eu-football-players-and-possible-implications-following-brexit/

Or we might just see a mirror agreement of current rules.

[Ewood Ace]

55 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

As seen at Leeds it doesn’t seem to matter who’s up front last 10 mins of a game, we defend so deep we invite so much pressure on ourselves it’s unbelievable and we just can’t get out.

The WBA game showed how vital Graham is when we are holding onto a lead. He was sensational at holding the ball and winning freekicks or bringing others into play.  Brereton has neither the physicality or the footballing intelligence that Graham possess for him to be able do that. 

[4000Holes]

Been depressed reading this board but it could be worse.  I see Forrest Gren have recalled Doidge from Bolton.  He was on loan with Bolton who had agreed to due to buy him in Jan for £1,000,000. Forrest Green in the meantime have been paying his wages for the first half of the season.  Bolton failed to pay first instalment on his transfer and subsequently now been recalled.  And I thought we where in trouble.

[SBlue]

Good, balanced post @roversfan99, although I think I can see “something” in BB’s movement and striking of the ball. So, so early to make assumptions either way and it will maybe be a while before he ousts Graham... one to wait and see for me.

Lets hope we can pull some rabbits out of the hat this window or next...

 

Have we even been linked with anyone yet?

 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[roversfan99]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

Good, balanced post @roversfan99, although I think I can see “something” in BBS movement and striking of the ball. So, so early to make assumptions either way and it will maybe be a while before he ousts Graham... one to wait and see for me.

Lets hope we can pull some rabbits out of the hat this window or next...

 

Have we even been linked with anyone yet?

 

 

The usual 2, Gallagher and Chapman! Lets hope we dont stick to the same names.

[USABlue]

4 hours ago, OnePhilT said:

Duffy was still good enough to go straight into the starting XI from the get-go. If Brereton's now-many cameos are anything to go by, then he isn't starting XI material, yet.

There is one huge silver-lining out of all of this, which is that the owners have finally decided to loosen the purse-strings again - and to a group of professionals that surely couldn't use the money any worse than when Anderson and Kean had their hands on things. Only time will tell if Brereton is going to come any good, but the evidence so far isn't great.

With expensive busts like BB I'd imagine they'll soon be tight and doubled knotted again, if not already.

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

I think your maths is a little awry there. Brereton has 1 assist and no goals. Clarke has one assist and two goals. 

Anyway I'm just pleased that I could help you out and provide you with an answer to your query as to  another 19 year old striker currently doing better than Brereton in the championship.

Won the pen vs qpr and as we’ve established, not doing better. 

Brereton had a wrongly disallowed ‘offside’ goal vs Bournemouth as well as Preston which I’ve just been reminded of.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

The WBA game showed how vital Graham is when we are holding onto a lead. He was sensational at holding the ball and winning freekicks or bringing others into play.  Brereton has neither the physicality or the footballing intelligence that Graham possess for him to be able do that. 

At last we agree. Maybe the style of play needs to change to suit more than just Dack & Graham? 

[RevidgeBlue]

6 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

At last we agree. Maybe the style of play needs to change to suit more than just Dack & Graham? 

That occurred to me when I read the original post. Are we playing an outmoded long ball style of play because we simply can't play any other way or are we doing it merely to accomodate the presence of Graham in the side.?

I wouldn't say our current style of play suits Dack particularly well. I'd have thought he'd be happier with balls played to feet and exchanging short and snappy passes and give and goes with someone like Palmer.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Who do we have in midfield who can play short passing?

[K-Hod]

11 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

That occurred to me when I read the original post. Are we playing an outmoded long ball style of play because we simply can't play any other way or are we doing it merely to accomodate the presence of Graham in the side.?

I wouldn't say our current style of play suits Dack particularly well. I'd have thought he'd be happier with balls played to feet and exchanging short and snappy passes and give and goes with someone like Palmer.

I don’t know, I’d say it suits him perfectly! The team is built around him and the amount of goals he’s scored would say he’s fairly well suited to it!!

[Ewood Ace]

38 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

At last we agree. Maybe the style of play needs to change to suit more than just Dack & Graham? 

I think it is the way the manager wants to play. Mowbray talks about soldiers and artists and he likes at most 3 artists in his starting line up, he's a conservative manager who I always feel is happy to take the point that he starts the game with. We have some flair players who have some creativity in Palmer and Rothwell but they spend most their time on the bench as the manager would prefer a central midfielder wide in Reed or Bennett who is more soldier than artist. We have had Evans and Smallwood  in the centre of midfield for most the season, who barley pass the ball forward they are mainly there to shield the back four (which I don't think they do very well).

So given the manager chooses to line up with such a conservative team we are left with little choice but to go long into Graham and Dack as they are our only attacking threat from open play. I'm sure Graham and Dack would love more creativity and support be from attacking through ball's from midfield or from crosses out wide. Players of Graham and Dack's quality could adapt to any style, its the manager's ability to adapt that I worry about.

[Exiled in Toronto]

6 hours ago, Mercer said:

Think you are wrong.  If Rovers survive by finishing 4th from bottom then it's been a very, very poor season.  We are not the Accrington Stanley of the Championship!

When a club gets promotion then it should have momentum and look to push on.

If Mowbray really thinks it will take a few windows to mount a promotion push then in my opinion, he is not our man.  Get a manager in with a 'can do' attitude, some drive, passion and confidence in his own ability.  Didn't take Warnock long to turn Cardiff around!

You mean like Wigan and Rotherham have shown?

[47er]

1 hour ago, Mellor Rover said:

Won the pen vs qpr and as we’ve established, not doing better. 

Brereton had a wrongly disallowed ‘offside’ goal vs Bournemouth as well as Preston which I’ve just been reminded of.

We all want Brereton to succeed but you seem manic about it. On and on and on. If he were playing well you wouldn't need to keep going on about him. He'd speak for himself.

[Butty]

6 hours ago, Mercer said:

Think you are wrong.  If Rovers survive by finishing 4th from bottom then it's been a very, very poor season.  We are not the Accrington Stanley of the Championship!

When a club gets promotion then it should have momentum and look to push on.

If Mowbray really thinks it will take a few windows to mount a promotion push then in my opinion, he is not our man.  Get a manager in with a 'can do' attitude, some drive, passion and confidence in his own ability.  Didn't take Warnock long to turn Cardiff around!

Think you’ve been drinking too much of that “fine red” you always bang on about. If you were expecting a promotion push this season you’re in dream world. 

[Exiled in Toronto]

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

Well someone posted the 'official' link some weeks ago on here which stated £7million PLUS add ons - think it might even have been Sharpe and LT from Rovers' side together with a Nottingham article.

So if the fee is 'undisclosed' how can there be an 'official' view.

Irrespective, it's a bloody lot of money for a bench warming teenager.

Must be right then! We can safely ignore what Sharpe wrote in the LT the other day when BB signed permanently, that it could rise to £7 million with add-ons (which, if triggered, would point to the lad being a success.)

So, we haven’t paid £7 million; we couldn’t have retooled the squad with the money; there is no evidence that whatever we did pay up front represented the whole budget. (Just like 4/5 years ago Venky’s did, in fact, have a pot to piss in and didn’t sell the club.)

Given they send over £15 million a year without a prayer of ever seeing a penny of it back, I would imagine they aren’t losing too much sleep over the small portion of that they have committed to a young English prospect with a decent pedigree.

[G Somerset Rover]

Gladwin’s kicking a ball again. Be like a new signing - he is better than Dack after all - man said so himself.

[RevidgeBlue]

50 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

Who do we have in midfield who can play short passing?

Dack Palmer Rothwell Reed Travis Rodwell?

[RevidgeBlue]

10 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Given they send over £15 million a year without a prayer of ever seeing a penny of it back, I would imagine they aren’t losing too much sleep over the small portion of that they have committed to a young English prospect with a decent pedigree.

Is there not a bit of a difference between taking a £7m gamble on an exciting young prospect, giving him a proper chance and coming to the conclusion he isn't good enough as opposed to barely handing him a start or playing him in his correct position?

[Mercer]

35 minutes ago, Butty said:

Think you’ve been drinking too much of that “fine red” you always bang on about. If you were expecting a promotion push this season you’re in dream world. 

Show me where I have said that?

Aiming for survival is not good enough.

Aiming for a top eight finish is not an unreasonable aspiration.

Last time we were promoted from Division One (then Division Three) under Howard Kendall, we finished 4th the following season failing to get into the top division on goal difference only.  If I recall then, fans weren't talking about a second consecutive promotion, however, the team had momentum from the previous season and with shrewd management, tactics and recruitment (1 fee paid and 4 frees) we went very, very close. 

If you have an able manager who is ambitious and driven, a manger who gets his recruitment right, a manager who is is tactically sound and a manager who is able to set up a team (not square pegs in round holes) then you have a chance.

Tonight at Wolves, Liverpool have three lads playing who are 16, 17 and 18.  If you are good enough then you are old enough.

I am a supporter who is fed up of what I think is shyte football and tactics with Rovers, an unambitious manager who talks about a promotion push in several windows time and a £7million+ 19 year old who the manager is 'nursing' when in reality I suspect BB will prove to be a signing as disastrous as other strikers like Davies, Ward and Grabbi etc. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Mercer

[Exiled in Toronto]

18 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Is there not a bit of a difference between taking a £7m gamble on an exciting young prospect, giving him a proper chance and coming to the conclusion he isn't good enough as opposed to barely handing him a start or playing him in his correct position?

Yes. But I suspect whoever stumped up to sign him for three years is more thinking along that time horizon than the first 300 minutes.

[davulsukur]

25 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Gladwin’s kicking a ball again. Be like a new signing - he is better than Dack after all - man said so himself.

Did he say that? For real?

[SBlue]

9 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Show me where I have said that?

Aiming for survival is not good enough.

Aiming for a top eight finish is not an unreasonable aspiration.

Last time we were promoted from Division One (then Division Three) under Howard Kendall, we finished 4th the following season failing to get into the top division on goal difference only.  If I recall then, fans weren't talking about a second consecutive promotion, however, the team had momentum from the previous season and with shrewd management, tactics and recruitment (1 fee paid and 4 frees) we went very, very close. 

If you have an able manager who is ambitious and driven, a manger who gets his recruitment right, a manager who is is tactically sound and a manager who is able to set up a team (not square pegs in round holes) then you have a chance.

Tonight at Wolves, Liverpool have three lads playing who are 16, 17 and 18.  If you are good enough then you are old enough.

I am a supporter who is fed up of what I think is shyte football and tactics with Rovers, an unambitious manager who talks about a promotion push in several windows time and a £7million+ 19 year old who the manager is 'nursing' when in reality I suspect BB will prove to be a signing as disastrous as other strikers like Davies, Ward and Grabbi etc. 

 

Sheffield Utd came up and finished 10th last year.

They now currently sit in 3rd, unanimously on here one of the best sides we’ve played.

Would that be good enough? Kendall enough?

 

Also, are you confused about Liverpool having better players than us?

[Mercer]

6 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

 

Sheffield Utd came up and finished 10th last year.

They now currently sit in 3rd, unanimously on here one of the best sides we’ve played.

Would that be good enough? Kendall enough?

 

Also, are you confused about Liverpool having better players than us?

I am not the one confused.

Yep, Liverpool have some fine prospects and tonight played a 16, 17 and 18 year old.

Posters on here keep saying that in Brereton we have a fine young prospect, however, 19 year old Brereton, who will cost the club £10million+ over his contract term, is deemed not ready or not good enough, or both, to start a league game for us.  Now you tell me who is confused? 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Mercer