Wigan V ROVERS 28/11/18

[AAK]

What is telling for me is the following. Last season I felt Rovers and Wigan were very evenly match in terms of quality of player and squad strength, and both fixtures with each other were draws. Then came the summer, which is were Wigan made a bigger impact than us, in terms of buying the right players.

Us

We needed wingers, a centre back, an out and out striker, a full back a replacement for Smallwood and a creative midfielder. In came;

Armstrong - nobody knows his best position, DIDN'T NEED

Brereton - £7million on a striker that never plays DEBATEABLE

Rodwell - a free central midfielder who plays centre back, DIDN'T NEED

Rothwell - one who could be that creative midfielder, a nice looking player, but doesn't play ONE WE DID NEED BUT DOESN'T PLAY

Palmer - similar to Armstrong, nobody knows his best position, DIDN'T NEED

Davenport - can't comment

Reed - the replacement needed for smallwood, but doesn't replace him and crazily place right midfield - DO NEED but not used correctly

So I would say, 2 maybe 3 we did need and have or could be effective.

Wigan

Needed new full backs, a creative midfielders, some wingers, central midfielder after letting Power leave, and a centre forward, similar to us bar the centre half, in came;

Dan Burn Full back from Brighton, good player, plays in correct position - NEEDED and good signing

Reece James, full back from chelsea, tidy defender, can get forward when needed, plays in correct position - NEEDED and good signing

Josh Windass, attacking midfielder, creative, good on the ball, plays in correct position - NEEDED and good signing

Mcmanaman, winger, pacey, can beat a man and capable of bagging a few, plays in correct position - NEEDED and good signing

Lee Evans, central midfielder, tidy on the ball, get's his foot in, plays in correct position - NEEDED and good signing

 

All 5 they did need and are effective going off last night.

 

Think that sums it up for me, they've made signings they needed, play them in their correct positions and they are effective. Last night they looked a far better side than us. Yes we are still above them, but I have no doubt they will finish above us if we don't significantly strengthen the squad, and if we do strengthen, actually play them and in their correct positions.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by AAK

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

19 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Don't see what good Chapman would do us at this stage. We need to learn how to defend and we've bigger problems in CM and up front. If we're expecting an injury prone kid who has barely played for 12 months who couldn't get in our side in League One to suddenly turn up and make us into an effective attacking unit that sounds far fetched. Mowbray clearly has no desire for an out and out winger hence his obsession with sticking players out wide who are used to playing in the middle. Reed, Brereton, Armstrong, Antonsson, Payne.

Our defence struggles because we invite pressure on ourselves with our boring and aimless play where we pass it around at the back between defence before launching it long and hoping Graham, Dack or Armstrong pull off a bit of magic by getting on the end and holding it up.

When Wigan had the ball last  night they got 4 or 5 men forward. When we won the ball in midfield there was Graham and Dack. When defending they got men back, we were exposed every time.

 

Football is a simple game. One thing I was taught we seem to have forgotten - " When you have the ball make the pitch as big as you can, when the opposition have the ball make the pitch as small as you can ". That means working hard off and on the ball, press like your life depends on it, always show for the bloke in possession of the ball. in other words do the bloody basics and play like you actually want to be out there.

[DE.]

20 minutes ago, Neal said:

Mowbray on Chapman at fans forum (I think)... 

 

He’s just the fastest thing you’ve ever seen on the training ground, it’s unbelievable,” said Mowbray.

“It’s just teaching him the footballing attributes, knowing when to press and when to hold.

“I think we can utilise the assets of Harry Chapman, and have a real fantastic footballer, but not today or even in the next six months.

“If Middlesbrough allow us to talk to Harry Chapman, I’ll be making him aware that if we sign him, it’ll be on a longer contract.

“He could even go out on loan if he joined. He’s not played a lot of football. He had his hamstring issues with us and then his shoulder issues.

“If we spend a whole preseason with him, then potentially he could be someone we end up signing.”

Tony seems to be looking so far forward that he's losing touch with the present. It's nice to have long term plans but they can't be enacted at the expense of what is required in the short term. Brereton being a prime example of a long term goal that's been brought in to the detriment of our present need for a striker as backup to Graham.

[RevidgeBlue]

12 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Don't see what good Chapman would do us at this stage. We need to learn how to defend and we've bigger problems in CM and up front. If we're expecting an injury prone kid who has barely played for 12 months who couldn't get in our side in League One to suddenly turn up and make us into an effective attacking unit that sounds far fetched. Mowbray clearly has no desire for an out and out winger hence his obsession with sticking players out wide who are used to playing in the middle. Reed, Brereton, Armstrong, Antonsson, Payne.

Our defence struggles because we invite pressure on ourselves with our boring and aimless play where we pass it around at the back between defence before launching it long and hoping Graham, Dack or Armstrong pull off a bit of magic by getting on the end and holding it up.

When Wigan had the ball last  night they got 4 or 5 men forward. When we won the ball in midfield there was Graham and Dack. When defending they got men back, we were exposed every time.

 

Completely disagree about Chapman. Signing him obviously wouldn't solve all our problems, it wouldn't turn Williams into something resembling a ledt back, it wouldn't make Lenihan, Mulgrew and Rodwell into hardened specialist centre backs, it wouldn't turn Evans and Smallwood into creative central midfielders,  it wouldn't make Bennett capable of putting a decent cross in and it wouldn't knock five or six years off Danny Graham.

it would however go some way to addressing the lack of pace and width in the side and if we signed a really good left back, a hard as nails centre half, a creative midfielder and a quality central striker at the peak of their game we'd look correspondingly better again.

Trouble is, TM obviously doesn't think so. As Neal says it's insane to be talking about signing a player only to loan him straight out again. Especially when it's one who in imo should be walking into our side.

 

[Neal]

9 minutes ago, DE. said:

Tony seems to be looking so far forward that he's losing touch with the present. It's nice to have long term plans but they can't be enacted at the expense of what is required in the short term. Brereton being a prime example of a long term goal that's been brought in to the detriment of our present need for a striker as backup to Graham.

100%

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

It’s strange, as there are plenty who SHOULD be leaders:

Mulgrew, Graham, Bennett, Conway. Hell, I’d include Evans and Lenihan in that too tbh

I would imagine it was Mulgrew, Conway and Graham with the players angry words last night. 

I want a reaction on Saturday

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

Doesn't help when the manager is strolling around in his technical area with his head in his hands or goes and sits down for a sulk when things aren't going well.

Cook and his staff were in the technical area all the game issuing instructions, making changes, getting stuck into people, abusing the referee and 4th official. Venus and Lowe didn't so much as stand up apart from when substitutions were being made. Mowbray's body language when things aren't going well is shocking.

That's Cook style all over and why I hated him. 

I can understand why Mowbray gets frustrated and aren't doing the things they should be doing on the pitch. He looks annoyed when we keep playing so many long balls. 

49 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The players undoubtedly take a share of the blame for these 2 embarrassments, but the manager takes a lions share too.

Why is he playing Rodwell as a centre back, something youve defended before? Because of imbalanced recruitment. 

Why when he is one goal down did he take off our striker and bring on a crap left back? How can you do anything but ridicule such stupidity?

Why after spending close to 10 million in the summer are we still left with players like Smallwood and Bell (that Mowbray signed, who did their job in League 1) regularly playing in the Championship out of their depth?

Dack was crap again but to put Soccer AM down as the protagonist for a drop in form is laughable.

What is Mowbrays style of play, wheres our identity, why are we so toothless and disorganised? Last season we got promotion through consistency of team selection, we had an identity, look at Burnley when they got promoted, barely used any players, everyone knew their job.

Its terrible to watch, these 2 defeats have been coming and our performances for most of the season have been horrendous to watch. Most long balls in the league, simply in the absence of any constructive attacking play. Dack out of form but no one else stepping up and scoring goals. Mowbray with no clue of his best side. 

Yes the players should take some of the blame like for the poor performances and defending so poorly. Mowbray can take some of the blame but he isn't on field is he. 

Mowbray yet again has told the fans why and how he is going to use Rodwell here. So your comment of imbalanced recruitment is wrong. Do your research 1st? 

Was Graham injured? I can understand the change to 3 at the back when the problems we had against Wigan and Vaughan. 

I don't think either are out of their depth at all. I prefer Bell to Williams. 

nowhere have I said Dack is down to Soccer AM tho. Maybe try reading properly 1st. I said since he been on the show his form has dipped and should be dropped. His performance yesterday was totally pathetic and he needs kick up the ass and dropping to the bench to provoke a reaction. 

The most long balls in the league stat again,  you must post it in every post you do, might aswell cos you love ramming it down our throats every day. 

Mowbray yet again has told the fans about changing style and the reasons why, so why keep asking the question I don't know. 

The players performances have dropped the last 3 games but I have said why we having got going and Rich Sharpe has mention 1 of the reasons why has the same as mine

[Bigdoggsteel]

30 minutes ago, DE. said:

Tony seems to be looking so far forward that he's losing touch with the present. It's nice to have long term plans but they can't be enacted at the expense of what is required in the short term. Brereton being a prime example of a long term goal that's been brought in to the detriment of our present need for a striker as backup to Graham.

I think you are right. Maybe Tony isn't the only one who has lost touch with the present. The table before the international break led to a lot of positivity, maybe the players lost the run of themselves 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I would imagine it was Mulgrew, Conway and Graham with the players angry words last night. 

I want a reaction on Saturday

That's Cook style all over and why I hated him. 

I can understand why Mowbray gets frustrated and aren't doing the things they should be doing on the pitch. He looks annoyed when we keep playing so many long balls. 

Yes the players should take some of the blame like for the poor performances and defending so poorly. Mowbray can take some of the blame but he isn't on field is he. 

Mowbray yet again has told the fans why and how he is going to use Rodwell here. So your comment of imbalanced recruitment is wrong. Do your research 1st? 

Was Graham injured? I can understand the change to 3 at the back when the problems we had against Wigan and Vaughan. 

I don't think either are out of their depth at all. I prefer Bell to Williams. 

nowhere have I said Dack is down to Soccer AM tho. Maybe try reading properly 1st. I said since he been on the show his form has dipped and should be dropped. His performance yesterday was totally pathetic and he needs kick up the ass and dropping to the bench to provoke a reaction. 

The most long balls in the league stat again,  you must post it in every post you do, might aswell cos you love ramming it down our throats every day. 

Mowbray yet again has told the fans about changing style and the reasons why, so why keep asking the question I don't know. 

The players performances have dropped the last 3 games but I have said why we having got going and Rich Sharpe has mention 1 of the reasons why has the same as mine

If hes so angry about the long balls then whys he not done anything about it all season?! My "favourite stat" is that we have played the most long balls in the season.

Mowbray is never "on the field" but its his job to sign the players, pick the players, coach the players, set out the game plan for the players. Thats not a valid argument otherwise managers would never be responsible.

I know he intends to use Rodwell as a centre back. Im criticising that fact as a totally bizarre outlook, how about signing an actual centre back! Rodwell gave away another penalty with some embarassing defending from a goalkeepers kick out. 

If Graham was injured then why not bring on another attacking player. We were losing the game.

Mowbray can say what he likes, im not interested in his interviews, I judge him on how the team does. Ive seen no remote signs of any passing style being worked on, on any identity throughout most of the season, bar us being a long ball team.

[K-Hod]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would imagine it was Mulgrew, Conway and Graham with the players angry words last night. 

I want a reaction on Saturday

That's Cook style all over and why I hated him. 

I can understand why Mowbray gets frustrated and aren't doing the things they should be doing on the pitch. He looks annoyed when we keep playing so many long balls. 

Yes the players should take some of the blame like for the poor performances and defending so poorly. Mowbray can take some of the blame but he isn't on field is he. 

Mowbray yet again has told the fans why and how he is going to use Rodwell here. So your comment of imbalanced recruitment is wrong. Do your research 1st? 

Was Graham injured? I can understand the change to 3 at the back when the problems we had against Wigan and Vaughan. 

I don't think either are out of their depth at all. I prefer Bell to Williams. 

nowhere have I said Dack is down to Soccer AM tho. Maybe try reading properly 1st. I said since he been on the show his form has dipped and should be dropped. His performance yesterday was totally pathetic and he needs kick up the ass and dropping to the bench to provoke a reaction. 

The most long balls in the league stat again,  you must post it in every post you do, might aswell cos you love ramming it down our throats every day. 

Mowbray yet again has told the fans about changing style and the reasons why, so why keep asking the question I don't know. 

The players performances have dropped the last 3 games but I have said why we having got going and Rich Sharpe has mention 1 of the reasons why has the same as mine

We were supposed to get a reaction last night, so I won't hold my breath on getting one on Saturday. 

We didn't sign any NATURAL wingers, we don't have any centre halves good enough to challenge Mulgrew and Lenihan, so the recruitment most definitely is imbalanced. Smallwood and Evans pairing needs breaking up. Reed is absolutely quality, but he's being played out of position to accommodate the aforementioned axis in central midfield. Joe Rothwell must be tearing his hair out about not being selected. If I had enough on my head, I would be as well!

Rodwell is a central midfielder, so even if he said he's not going to play him an centre half, he's still playing him at a position he's unfamiliar with recently. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by K-Hod

[Oldgregg86]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray yet again has told the fans about changing style and the reasons why, so why keep asking the question I don't know. 

Because on the field there is no signs he has changed anything and the reason the long ball stat keeps being referred to.

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If hes so angry about the long balls then whys he not done anything about it all season?! My "favourite stat" is that we have played the most long balls in the season.

Mowbray is never "on the field" but its his job to sign the players, pick the players, coach the players, set out the game plan for the players. Thats not a valid argument otherwise managers would never be responsible.

I know he intends to use Rodwell as a centre back. Im criticising that fact as a totally bizarre outlook, how about signing an actual centre back! Rodwell gave away another penalty with some embarassing defending from a goalkeepers kick out. 

If Graham was injured then why not bring on another attacking player. We were losing the game.

Mowbray can say what he likes, im not interested in his interviews, I judge him on how the team does. Ive seen no remote signs of any passing style being worked on, on any identity throughout most of the season, bar us being a long ball team.

Look at Mowbray reaction yesterday when we kept losing the ball and mispassing of the ball. Yes your favourite stat that you never stop mentioning

It is a valid argument but it doesn't suit you. 

so if you know the reasons why Mowbray is using Rodwell there then why asked me the question. 

Yet again I told you why we change formation and went 3 at the back, so did @arbitro aswell. 

thanks great. This passing style would be worked in training alot before being played in a match like Martinez did at Wigan when he changed to 4-2-3-1 to 3-4-3 formation

[G Somerset Rover]

I hope Mowbray is more pumped up with the lads than his last couple of pressers. Sounds like a man on death row on the latest one from the official twitter account. 

[JacknOry]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Look at Mowbray reaction yesterday when we kept losing the ball and mispassing of the ball. Yes your favourite stat that you never stop mentioning

It is a valid argument but it doesn't suit you. 

so if you know the reasons why Mowbray is using Rodwell there then why asked me the question. 

Yet again I told you why we change formation and went 3 at the back, so did @arbitro aswell. 

thanks great. This passing style would be worked in training alot before being played in a match like Martinez did at Wigan when he changed to 4-2-3-1 to 3-4-3 formation

How is it a valid argument that TM deserves no criticism for the performances in the past few games"because he is not on the pitch" ? I mean come on, we all know how much you love the guy but the buck stops with him. Yes the players have been awful but he is not exempt from criticism. 

[arbitro]

1 minute ago, JacknOry said:

How is it a valid argument that TM deserves no criticism for the performances in the past few games"because he is not on the pitch" ? I mean come on, we all know how much you love the guy but the buck stops with him. Yes the players have been awful but he is not exempt from criticism. 

Spot on, the buck stops with Mowbray. If this wretched form and performances continue then it will be him who pays the ultimate price. The players who he has protected and looked after will just carry on under another gaffer. If there are any murmurings or discontent amongst the players Mowbray needs to deal with it.

[Neal]

19 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

I hope Mowbray is more pumped up with the lads than his last couple of pressers. Sounds like a man on death row on the latest one from the official twitter account. 

 

He is. I've got a story from last night to tell you and everyone else, my Dad and his friends spoke to him after the game. I'll put it on here shortly. 

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 minute ago, arbitro said:

Spot on, the buck stops with Mowbray. If this wretched form and performances continue then it will be him who pays the ultimate price. The players who he has protected and looked after will just carry on under another gaffer. If there are any murmurings or discontent amongst the players Mowbray needs to deal with it.

What a difference from the West Brom game! 

At the same time, I can't fool myself. These abject performances do seem to appear every few games, usually only for one 45 minute period.

I can't help wondering if something happened in the international break or if players are unhappy with TM's tactics/selections .

Anyway, turn up like that for two local derbies and two limp defeats and supporter anger are the only outcomes. A mini crisis...

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Do tell all Neal.......

Edited November 29, 2018 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[Madon]

Just now, Neal said:

 

He is. I've got a story from last night to tell you and everyone else, my Dad and his friends spoke to him after the game. I'll put it on here shortly. 

Pumped up or on Death Row?

Lets hear it!

[Neal]

2 minutes ago, Madon said:

Pumped up or on Death Row?

Lets hear it!

It might take a while to post so hang on and I'll post it ASAP mate ?

[Mike E]

Feels like Nicko’s 11 O’clockers again! Gwan Neal!

[Bigdoggsteel]

Could you not just post it without the build up. The suspense 

[bluebruce]

9 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Could you not just post it without the build up. The suspense 

Could you not just be patient?

[tomphil]

Yes we want the full unedited version.....

[Neal]

My dad has previous with managers outside the ground at Wigan, he almost had a scrap with Paul Ince which turned into a heated a gentlemanly discussion as they walked round the car park at Wigan ?Anyways... Phoned me last night at 10.40 but I couldn't answer, I knew exactly what he was ringing me about, I'd have bet every penny I have he'd met the manager after ringing me at that time. So I calls him today and lo and behold he has.  

Some of you know my dad and Macky (who chaired the Ewood protest meetings), as they left the pub last night the team bus was still there so Macky walks on it pretending to me one of the staff ? when quizzed about what he was doing Macky said "I just wanted to speak to the manager", anyways as they turned round they heard someone say "alright lads?" Mowbray got off the coach to speak to them. 

 

Keep in mind I'm relaying what was said so it might not be word for word... "what can I say? That was absolutely f*cking embarrasing, I'm f*cking pissed off, they've let the club down, they've let themselves down, they've let me down and you down. I'm absolutely f*cking embarrassed. You lot pay you money and follow us round and they play like that? Absolutely f*cking unacceptable. At which point he apperently apologised to some of the women who were present but said he couldn't help it because of "how pissed off" he was... "I tell you what though, we will f*cking win on Saturday, I'm telling you". My dad didn't say what questions were asked of him but he went on to say "I feel embarrassed talking to you after that but I've told them all exactly what I think". The conversation carried on for some time I think... Mowbray went on "I have to go (apparently because bus was ready to go) but finished by saying... "I've got to go but I'm telling you, we f*cking will win on Saturday" and thanked them for coming before he shook their hands and had some photos with them before he left. 

 

I think there was a lot more to the conversation than that, it went on for a little while by the sounds of it but that was the main jist of it I think. Perhaps there might be someone present who can correct it or give a more accurate account and fill in the blanks that I missed. What my dad said was that he didn't just look pissed off, he looked upset, tearful almost but also fired up. From the sounds of it I think they were all a bit shocked by his reaction. 

 

If there's anything I missed out I'll edit the post. 

[Neal]

Just seen all your posts, I wasn't doing a Nicko, I'm at work!!!