Venkys - Welcome or Not?

[Dreams of 1995]

13 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I find it very hard to believe - in fact impossible to believe- that the Indian tax authorities would effectively allow a significant proportion of the losses at Blackburn Rovers to be subsidised by Indian taxpayers. Put it this way, our tax system would not allow a UK company to offset losses in an Indian cricket team against its UK profits.

Well there we go

So the question remains: why do they persist in owning us?

The only reasonable conclusion is that they still intend to recover the ~£300m either through a sale or by recouping through promotion and retaining PL funds.

It then begs the question why they continue to miss the target when it comes to piecing together a boardroom capable of operating in the constraints we have. It is is possible, but they persist with your Waggott's instead.

[Mashed Potatoes]

5 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Well there we go

So the question remains: why do they persist in owning us?

The only reasonable conclusion is that they still intend to recover the ~£300m either through a sale or by recouping through promotion and retaining PL funds.

It then begs the question why they continue to miss the target when it comes to piecing together a boardroom capable of operating in the constraints we have. It is is possible, but they persist with your Waggott's instead.

It's a good question that you pose and none of us can know for sure what the answer is.The losses are historic so I would guess that they are rich enough to afford the £15m or so that they lose without being too put out especially as they might lose face within the Indian business community if they did withdraw. I don't think they would get £300m on a sale even if we were back in the Premier League.

[J*B]

I’ve had plenty of different opinions over time but the only one I can see any sense in nowadays is that 300M really is sod all to them. There’s no other rationale reason for them to keep spending this much money. They seemingly bought the training ground off themselves for 16M because we were struggling during COVID. Most owners would consider Admin, not pay the wages, sell the players. Not Venkys. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, philipl said:

It is 30 years since I ceased being a Chartered Accountant (voluntarily) so I would like someone to explain how an Indian business would launder its debts in England.

Logic goes out the window where emotion is involved!

[Sweaty Gussets]

34 minutes ago, J*B said:

I’ve had plenty of different opinions over time but the only one I can see any sense in nowadays is that 300M really is sod all to them. There’s no other rationale reason for them to keep spending this much money. They seemingly bought the training ground off themselves for 16M because we were struggling during COVID. Most owners would consider Admin, not pay the wages, sell the players. Not Venkys. 

If you think of it only in financial terms then that seems the most plausible scenario. I just think there's a lot more going on than that - a lot of it cultural. 

[toogs]

7 hours ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

If you think of it only in financial terms then that seems the most plausible scenario. I just think there's a lot more going on than that - a lot of it cultural. 

Occam’s razor - the simplest explanation is the likeliest. 

[rigger]

30 minutes ago, toogs said:

Occam’s razor - the simplest explanation is the likeliest. 

What is the simplest explanation ?

[AllRoverAsia]

To the loaded and vicious 300 million spread over a decade + is not a huge price to pay to see a club and Town you despise grovel and suffer.

It never ceases to amaze me how some still give these cunts any credit whatsoever.

Have they ever looked interested in doing anything apart from keeping the lights on?

The one word answer, which for the challenged is NO, should be sent on a postcard to their shithole CEO.

Edited April 13, 2023 by AllRoverAsia

[Upside Down]

6 hours ago, rigger said:

What is the simplest explanation ?

Offsetting of losses.

People say that isn't how the tax laws work in India but do they really know the ins and outs of that? 

Also, Venkys is a huge multinational organisation and we have no idea how it is structured.  

Maybe I'm just putting two and two together to get five but I find it suspicious that the club loses roughly the same amount every year. There are efforts made to ensure that the losses don't exceed that 20 ish million mark and there are efforts made to make sure we don't generate any real income.  

I can't say for certain what is going on but from what I have seen there has been every effort made to get the club into the championship and keep it there.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

They purchased our football Club as a tool to help them promote their Fried Chicken Express Business in the Western hemisphere...you have all seen the ridiculous advert.Their main venture failed miserably.

Blackburn Rovers were NEVER the main concern here and has been proved.

Edited April 13, 2023 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[philipl]

If your decisions on buying a club wrecked it and you have been let down time and again by advisors who were supposedly acting for you but lining their own pockets

And there are no decent buyers 

What is the decent thing to do?

Ensure the Academy is funded

Appointment of decent experienced management within budget who can manage to budget (which is enforced by FFP)

Finance the club to the maximum allowed by FFP

Keep out of the way and let management do their job.

 

What have Venkys done since the Coyle debacle?

All of the above.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

They indeed wrecked a good football club Philipl,I personally find it hard to forgive to this very day...they ripped up every bit of hard work done by Jack Walker.

Edited April 13, 2023 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[47er]

26 minutes ago, philipl said:

If your decisions on buying a club wrecked it and you have been let down time and again by advisors who were supposedly acting for you but lining their own pockets

And there are no decent buyers 

What is the decent thing to do?

Ensure the Academy is funded

Appointment of decent experienced management within budget who can manage to budget (which is enforced by FFP)

Finance the club to the maximum allowed by FFP

Keep out of the way and let management do their job.

 

What have Venkys done since the Coyle debacle?

All of the above.

So ,Waggot can do what he likes?

[Mattyblue]

Any reason they don’t fund things not impacted by FFP, I.e a crap pitch and an infrastructure falling to bits? I mean it’s the ‘decent thing to do’, no?

[AllRoverAsia]

I have no time for apologists.

They are in the same rat hole as the Pune vermin.

[arbitro]

What about the impact on the local economy? Around  50000 fans would visit Blackburn over a nine month period and the majority wanted food and drink. Local businesses were generally the beneficiaries. Also the number of people employed by the club  both full and part time.

This badly advised rhetoric has worn thin now. They were told in the letter which is in the public domain that what they were doing was wrong and contravened regulations. This was sent by John Williams, Tom Finn and Martin Goodman. They ignored it and got rid of those three instead. 

Respect Jack Walkers legacy? They have peed all over it.

[Eddie]

14 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Any reason they don’t fund things not impacted by FFP, I.e a crap pitch and an infrastructure falling to bits? I mean it’s the ‘decent thing to do’, no?

Cost?

I really don't think that we can complain about the money that they put into the club and there is nothing better out there (as far as we are aware) at the moment.

Unless some extremely wealthy (and by that I mean in the ultrawealthy multi-billions category) is going to appear then we would be really dumb to hope for anyone else to step in.

People can say that they'll never forgive or be angry at them forever, but like @philipl points out, their ownership of the club for the past 6/7 seasons has actually been quite good.

There comes a moment in time when we all have to start with a clean slate and judge the environment based on its current makeup. 

Let's also stop pretending that relegation was an impossibility before they stepped in. They undoubtedly hastened our demise and made some incredibly dumb decisions along the way, but we may have well found ourselves in the Championship with a Trust that had lost all interest in us.

[Eddie]

2 minutes ago, arbitro said:

What about the impact on the local economy? Around  50000 fans would visit Blackburn over a nine month period and the majority wanted food and drink. Local businesses were generally the beneficiaries. Also the number of people employed by the club  both full and part time.

This badly advised rhetoric has worn thin now. They were told in the letter which is in the public domain that what they were doing was wrong and contravened regulations. This was sent by John Williams, Tom Finn and Martin Goodman. They ignored it and got rid of those three instead. 

Respect Jack Walkers legacy? They have peed all over it.

Funny thing about successful people, they tend to trust themselves and the people they place trust in.

Like it or not, this is a highly successful family which will have assumed that they could make smart decisions in this world as they had in their other businesses. This confidence and their decision-making will have been influenced by the advisors that they chose - or who chose them.

I can't understand anyone who puts the initial period down to anything other than incompetence. Had it been something more calculated then there would have been a sale or administration by now. Had it been something more malicious than there would have certainly been administration by now.

[Eddie]

4 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Respect Jack Walkers legacy? They have peed all over it.

Jack Walker's legacy was ultimately most let down by his own Trust. A family that lost interest in the club that he loved and stopped putting anything more than the bare minimum into the club.

They had every right to do that, it's their own money and it was a business that was always going to be unprofitable, but the legacy stopped there.

[arbitro]

12 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Jack Walker's legacy was ultimately most let down by his own Trust. A family that lost interest in the club that he loved and stopped putting anything more than the bare minimum into the club.

They had every right to do that, it's their own money and it was a business that was always going to be unprofitable, but the legacy stopped there.

We were eighth in the Premier League when they showeup and had £20m debt throughgood management. Jacks legacy was intact when they came - to say anything else is nonsense. 

[arbitro]

16 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Funny thing about successful people, they tend to trust themselves and the people they place trust in.

Like it or not, this is a highly successful family which will have assumed that they could make smart decisions in this world as they had in their other businesses. This confidence and their decision-making will have been influenced by the advisors that they chose - or who chose them.

I can't understand anyone who puts the initial period down to anything other than incompetence. Had it been something more calculated then there would have been a sale or administration by now. Had it been something more malicious than there would have certainly been administration by now.

Do you think that had they taken over any other business they would have ripped up the blueprint,  sacked extremely competent people and taken that business on a downward trajectory that has cost them millions?

[Mattyblue]

39 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Cost?

I really don't think that we can complain about the money that they put into the club and there is nothing better out there (as far as we are aware) at the moment.

Unless some extremely wealthy (and by that I mean in the ultrawealthy multi-billions category) is going to appear then we would be really dumb to hope for anyone else to step in.

People can say that they'll never forgive or be angry at them forever, but like @philipl points out, their ownership of the club for the past 6/7 seasons has actually been quite good.

There comes a moment in time when we all have to start with a clean slate and judge the environment based on its current makeup. 

Let's also stop pretending that relegation was an impossibility before they stepped in. They undoubtedly hastened our demise and made some incredibly dumb decisions along the way, but we may have well found ourselves in the Championship with a Trust that had lost all interest in us.

Well obviously it’s cost.

If they don’t want to fund a new pitch or to prevent the Riverside falling into the River Darwen then fine, it’s their club, but then don’t parrot a line that it’s only FFP limits preventing them putting more in.

They obviously have a limit they *want* to put in and that’s fair enough, obviously the academy/keeping the bills paid comes first, but let’s not pretend it’s that pesky FFP stopping them firing us to the promised land.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Mattyblue

[Upside Down]

1 hour ago, philipl said:

If your decisions on buying a club wrecked it and you have been let down time and again by advisors who were supposedly acting for you but lining their own pockets

And there are no decent buyers 

What is the decent thing to do?

Ensure the Academy is funded

Appointment of decent experienced management within budget who can manage to budget (which is enforced by FFP)

Finance the club to the maximum allowed by FFP

Keep out of the way and let management do their job.

 

What have Venkys done since the Coyle debacle?

All of the above.

I didn't realise you could access this forum from an alternate plane of reality. 

[Upside Down]

36 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Jack Walker's legacy was ultimately most let down by his own Trust. A family that lost interest in the club that he loved and stopped putting anything more than the bare minimum into the club.

They had every right to do that, it's their own money and it was a business that was always going to be unprofitable, but the legacy stopped there.

This is true. Its one thing often overlooked by a lot of people. No due diligence done whatsoever when selling the club all they cared about was money. Not a shred of respect for the legacy of the people that gave it to them.

I also can't understand why people are pleased with venkys for paying the bills. The only reason the club loses so much money is because of them. They are covering losses that they have caused.  Its like applauding someone for paying for their meal in a restaurant after they've just set the place on fire. 

The mind doth boggle. 

[47er]

45 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Jack Walker's legacy was ultimately most let down by his own Trust. A family that lost interest in the club that he loved and stopped putting anything more than the bare minimum into the club.

They had every right to do that, it's their own money and it was a business that was always going to be unprofitable, but the legacy stopped there.

The Trust has to take its fair share of the blame for what we've been through for reasons we've gone over many times. Not least their willingness to sell what Jack had built up to anyone who'd pay whatever their motivation or suitability.

However, before Venkys took over we were a stable EPL club with no reason at all to think we couldn't stay there.