Middlesborough away Sat 8th Dec

[chaddyrovers]

43 minutes ago, Stuart said:

If only Mahoney had stayed, we’d be playing a completely different way now.

Maybe so but Mahoney decide to leave even tho Mowbray tried to keep him here. It was Mahoney decision to leave his hometown club. 

[47er]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

enjoyed my day out. it was good apart from the result. had some good dinner in the old spring well near Harrogate. Hope this answer your question

Well done Chaddy, that's the closest you've ever come to answering a question I think! LOL

A bit more detail wouldn't have hurt but I'll take what I can get!

Glad you enjoyed it.

[47er]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

Rich Sharpe referencing our lack of width in his Reed comments. 

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17286068.middlesbrough-1-blackburn-rovers-1-player-ratings/?ref=mac

Everyone sees it but the man who matters.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, 47er said:

Everyone sees it but the man who matters.

All I Want For Christmas is Width. 

[47er]

I always stack it on at Christmas! ?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, 47er said:

I always stack it on at Christmas! ?

I thought i'd set one up there. It could have gone much worse?

[tomphil]

It's odd that Tony doesn't seem to like width as he had it with Chapman and used it reasonably well with him when he was fit. Maybe he's been saving that place all along hoping he can get Chappers cheap and rehabilitate him but that's been a risky long shot to hold on to though.

Somewhere deep down I have hope he has his scouts looking for similar and when they finally turn something up we'll actually have a winger in the squad again.  Surely in a game like yesterday if you got Armstrong in the middle and someone breaking down the wing in space stretching the ten men he might have converted one of maybe ten balls into him!

Edited December 9, 2018 by tomphil

[blueboy3333]

20 minutes ago, tomphil said:

It's odd that Tony doesn't seem to like width as he had it with Chapman and used it reasonably well with him when he was fit.

He only started him once (Pompey at home) even when he was fit. He said in the summer if we signed him again he'd be on the bench.

The potential Freeman signing was the interesting one, he's not really a winger but more the Alan Mahon type (oh for another Mahon!). Mowbray seems to want a wide midfielder rather than an out-an-out winger. Celina fits that mould too.

[tomphil]

2 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

He only started him once (Pompey at home) even when he was fit. He said in the summer if we signed him again he'd be on the bench.

The potential Freeman signing was the interesting one, he's not really a winger but more the Alan Mahon type (oh for another Mahon!). Mowbray seems to want a wide midfielder rather than an out-an-out winger. Celina fits that mould too.

Yep I don't think he'll ever start with wingers but I thought he used Chapman quite effectively as a sub he didn't half open some games up when he came on.

As for Alan Mahon totally agree cracking little player who was around at a time when we had plenty quality so always struggled to have a regular place but he'd walk into this team. Great shot on him when he cut inside but that's what you want from wide players who aren't really wingers, they have to bring something to the party other than just occupying a place in the team or stopping the oppo full backs coming forwards.

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, tomphil said:

Yep I don't think he'll ever start with wingers but I thought he used Chapman quite effectively as a sub he didn't half open some games up when he came on.

As for Alan Mahon totally agree cracking little player who was around at a time when we had plenty quality so always struggled to have a regular place but he'd walk into this team. Great shot on him when he cut inside but that's what you want from wide players who aren't really wingers, they have to bring something to the party other than just occupying a place in the team or stopping the oppo full backs coming forwards.

Mahon, Dunny, and Flitty in the midfield three that Souness liked iirc. Add Hignett, Berkovic and Duff and we were a bit spoilt for choice! Always cracks me up when people say we should have got promoted with Willowe in the engine room ?

Edited December 9, 2018 by blueboy3333

[tomphil]

2 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Mahon, Dunny, and Flitty in the midfield three that Souness liked iirc. Add Hignett, Berkovic and Duff and we were a bit spoilt for choice! Always cracks me up when people say we should have got promoted with Willowe in the engine room ?

That's it though these days it isn't the engine room and hasn't been for years it's just a buffer zone where when they get the ball they don't quite know what to do with it and their appearances over the half way line happen about twice a season !

[Mattyblue]

And Gillespie!

[blueboy3333]

4 minutes ago, tomphil said:

That's it though these days it isn't the engine room and hasn't been for years it's just a buffer zone where when they get the ball they don't quite know what to do with it and their appearances over the half way line happen about twice a season !

That's true, the obsession with controlling the possession or hitting teams on the counter means everybody has dropped 20 yards. two wingers and two strikers were the glory days. Now it's a packed midfield, no wingers and 1 striker if you're lucky! And they've tripled the prices. B'stards?

[Ewood Ace]

A central pairing of Smallwood and Evans won't win you enough games to get into the top 6 they are too similar both work hard and are decent defensively but on the ball they are to pedestrian rarely looking to run or pass forward usually play slows down and results in a sideways or backwards pass. Put Reed central and he will give you the work rate and defensive strengths of Evans and Smallwood but he will also give you some dynamism going forward playing some attacking passes, running with the ball and injecting some much need pace. Take the West Brom game for example I've never seen Smallwood or Evans put in an all-round display like Reed did there. Tony needs to make the decision of which one of Smallwood or Evans are going to be dropped in order to bring Reed in central, overwise it will cost him just like it did Bowyer with Williamson and Lowe. For me I would pick Evans alongside Reed.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

A central pairing of Smallwood and Evans won't win you enough games to get into the top 6 they are too similar both work hard and are decent defensively but on the ball they are to pedestrian rarely looking to run or pass forward usually play slows down and results in a sideways or backwards pass. Put Reed central and he will give you the work rate and defensive strengths of Evans and Smallwood but he will also give you some dynamism going forward playing some attacking passes, running with the ball and injecting some much need pace. Take the West Brom game for example I've never seen Smallwood or Evans put in an all-round display like Reed did there. Tony needs to make the decision of which one of Smallwood or Evans are going to be dropped in order to bring Reed in central, overwise it will cost him just like it did Bowyer with Williamson and Lowe. For me I would pick Evans alongside Reed.

As @tomphil pointed out, Football has changed. Smallwood and Evans aren't there to create like CM's were when we had the likes of Tugay or Sherwood playing for us. They are just stoppers, there to protect the defence and give it to our more creative players when they win it back. Trouble is we don't have any creative players for them to give it to apart from Dack, or at least not ones Mogga trusts enough to play. I'm not sure it's been mentioned but a quick winger who can beat a man or two may help?

Interesting though that Evans has been given license to get in the box more in the last two games. Maybe Mogga is trying to slowly change and get more players in the box. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Playing 6 at the back isn't going to lead to a glut of goal scoring chances very often. But we still leak goals most weeks. When did Evans last score a goal ? Anybody know ?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Playing 6 at the back isn't going to lead to a glut of goal scoring chances very often. But we still leak goals most weeks. When did Evans last score a goal ? Anybody know ?

He's scored 3 in his 5 and a half years at Rovers. No idea when the last one was. 

[tomphil]

Evans looks a better player when he's given licence to operate a bit further up like a traditional centre mid he's done it Internationally a few times I think he could do the job. Fear is though he's like a rabbit in the headlights when he gets the ball over the halfway line as it's been drilled out of him trying to be creative so it would take time to get accustomed to it but I don't think Mowbray or him are brave enough for a new look when the safety of as you were is still an option.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

He's scored 3 in his 5 and a half years at Rovers. No idea when the last one was. 

There's an unwritten rule in the rugby league team I support. They have a booze up immediately after the last game of the season. The pub of choice is slap bang in the middle of town near the Town Hall.  Any player who hasn't scored a try in the course of the season has to strip naked, run out of the pub, do a lap of the Town Hall and run back in again. I've seen it happen several times. Normally it's on a Sunday night in September and they wait while it's almost dark.

Maybe we should adopt a similar rule ? 

[AllRoverAsia]

23 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

As @tomphil pointed out, Football has changed. Smallwood and Evans aren't there to create like CM's were when we had the likes of Tugay or Sherwood playing for us. They are just stoppers, there to protect the defence and give it to our more creative players when they win it back. Trouble is we don't have any creative players for them to give it to apart from Dack, or at least not ones Mogga trusts enough to play. I'm not sure it's been mentioned but a quick winger who can beat a man or two may help?

Interesting though that Evans has been given license to get in the box more in the last two games. Maybe Mogga is trying to slowly change and get more players in the box. 

Evans did that for Northern Ireland in his most recent games, Mowbray picked up the idea from there I think.

[OJRovers]

Not 100% sure, but over the last 2 games, Williams has been pushing forward on the left hand side when we have the ball. A lot further up than usual. Mulgrew has been coming wider to cover. It is almost like we switch to a back 3 until we lose the ball and he slots back in.

I think it has been fairly effective, although Williams decision making is not always the best when on the ball. He should have fired in the winner instead of squaring it yesterday.

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, OJRovers said:

Not 100% sure, but over the last 2 games, Williams has been pushing forward on the left hand side when we have the ball. A lot further up than usual. Mulgrew has been coming wider to cover. It is almost like we switch to a back 3 until we lose the ball and he slots back in.

I think it has been fairly effective, although Williams decision making is not always the best when on the ball. He should have fired in the winner instead of squaring it yesterday.

Great observations. 

[JHRover]

In isolation a decent point but i suspect if the next 4 games pan out without a win we'll end up looking at this one as a big two points missed. We won't get a better chance to win at one of the top 6, and regardless of the perceived standard of the opposition when you've a man advantage for 70 minutes and take the lead it is always points dropped if you don't end up winning. Really in the last 20 minutes or so you wouldn't have known which side had 10 and which had 11.  

I knew at half time that the only chance we had of winning was if we got a 2nd. There was no way we were going to see the game out and get a clean sheet. 

Similarities for me to the Ipswich game in August. Did the hard part in getting our noses in front and got ourselves into a position where we appeared quite comfortable, restricting the opposition to very little by way of chances, then bang, the goal inevitably comes, we can feel sorry for ourselves about it being a 'fluke' 'luck' or 'wonder strike' but anyone who has watched Rovers regularly this season or indeed last would have expected it to come sooner or later. It usually does away from home, particularly late on as we tire and teams apply more pressure. We've got away with it a few times this season - at Stoke because we uncharacteristically had a cushion to fall back on and nearly threw that away, at Bolton because they're an appalling side yet we nearly managed to let that slip and at Hull who are also very poor albeit improving.

Bristol, Middlesbrough, Swansea, Ipswich - away games we've been in glorious positions and then let valuable points slip.

Alarming how many times Middlesbrough sent long balls down the middle from their keeper and ended up breaking through on goal, and really should have taken one of those chances. We never get in behind like that.

We are very frustrating and at times difficult to watch. Particularly away from home. 

I'm not really bothered about which position we currently occupy, I want to get to 50 points asap. Those clubs just behind us could very quickly overtake us over the next few weeks if our points return continues in 4 tough games, 3 of which are against the current top 3. 

[Al]

20 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

I tell you what, Boro are no great shakes. Should be playing in the highland league with those tactics. Our footballers could have won that game today but when you have the boring passing ability of Evans and Smallwood in midfield you can’t create chances. Rothwell showcased his range of passing when he came on. He should have been the first off the bench. We are horrible going forward.

I've been trying to get that point over on a different forum for a while. We have absolutely no creativity from that pair so there is no flow going forward. Both can tackle but have no ideas or passing ability when they get the ball. I have been shouted down every time though. Midfielders should get you the odd goal too but how many have come from that pair for Rovers. One I think from Smallwood in two seasons and none from Evans in Christ knows how long.

[Mattyblue]

I’m largely with you JH.

Though I don’t think we will be in any danger bottom 3 wise, I also think we won’t end up anywhere near the top 6 either.

So I’m comfortable with this being a season of transition and the mistakes and at times lack of quality that go with it. 

I hope that Mowbray also sees what I see and those I believe aren’t good enough if we want to thrive at this level are slowly removed from the side - it’s up to the owners to fulfill the promises that are seemingly made on a regular basis to the manager. 

If they do, we could build to something very exciting over the next couple of years, if not and we will be also rans (at best) in this division.