Rovers v Birmingham-Saturday ,December 15th

[RevidgeBlue]

On 15/12/2018 at 22:58, Parsonblue said:

Two individual errors - Raya and Bell - cost us today.  Raya had a major lapse for the penalty but goalkeepers do that at times.  Bell, who I thought was dreadful, lost possession for the second when he could easily have simply pumped it forward.  The fact that Bell made Mahoney look half decent just about sums up his performance.   I thought Reed, Evans and Graham were our best performers - which they have been on a regular basis.

Whilst Brereton was in no way to blame for the defeat it was noticeable that when Graham came off we struggled to maintain possession and missed Graham closing down defenders.  Having watched every minute of Brereton so far this season I must admit that I'm struggling to see how he's going to win a regular spot in the starting line-up, particularly if we bring in another striker in January.  He doesn't appear overly physical and he certainly isn't quick.  I hope the lad proves me wrong but I've seen any number of players brought in over the years who have failed to make an impact and at the moment Brereton is beginning to fall into that category.

I think as usual Parson you're vastly over-estimating the contribution of Graham. On Saturday, once again for me he looked miles off the pace and I don't think he touched the ball during the first eighteen minutes before making a very well timed run to score. He is in a very rich vein of scoring form but contributed little else before being withdrawn and I don't think you can in any way shape or form attribute our collapse to his withdrawal.

There is something not quite right with this group of players and I'm not sure what it is but if I had to speculate on the most likely reason I'd say that the manager's negative mindset has embedded itself in the players psyche. When we take the lead the aim seems to be to see the game out rather than seeing if we can press on and put the game beyond doubt. This invariably leads to the opposition putting us under pressure and more often than not to them scoring. If that does happen we seem to completely go to pieces and have no idea how to tough the game out or even step our own game up and start giving the opposition problems again.

As others, have said, whilst Raya made a bad mistake for the first, that doesn't necessarily mean the game has to end 2-2 and a well disciplined and organised side should have been quite capable of seeing the game out.

The first place I'd be shining the microscope is at our two so called holding midfielders Evans and Smallwood. Their lack of creativity is well documented but when the pressure is on they're about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. They're the two who should be picking up the tempo when we suffer a setback, who should be reclaiming the game by the scruff of the neck and who should be ensuring the opposition do not pass. I think it's obvious to most Rovers fans that Reed, who is many times the player either of the other two are, should be in the middle instead of being wasted out wide.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

4 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I think as usual Parson you're vastly over-estimating the contribution of Graham. On Saturday, once again for me he looked miles off the pace and I don't think he touched the ball during the first eighteen minutes before making a very well timed run to score. He is in a very rich vein of scoring form but contributed little else before being withdrawn and I don't think you can in any way shape or form attribute our collapse to his withdrawal.

There is something not quite right with this group of players and I'm not sure what it is but if I had to speculate on the most likely reason I'd say that the manager's negative mindset has embedded itself in the players psyche. When we take the lead the aim seems to be to see the game out rather than seeing if we can press on and put the game beyond doubt. This invariably leads to the opposition putting us under pressure and more often than not to them scoring. If that does happen we seem to completely go to pieces and have no idea how to tough the game out or even step our own game up and start giving the opposition problems again.

As others, have said, whilst Raya made a bad mistake for the first, that doesn't necessarily mean the game has to end 2-2 and a well disciplined and organised side should have been quite capable of seeing the game out.

The first place I'd be shining the microscope is at our two so called holding midfielders Evans and Smallwood. Their lack of creativity is well documented but when the pressure is on they're about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. They're the two who should be picking up the tempo when we suffer a setback, who should be reclaiming the game by the scruff of the neck and who should be ensuring the opposition do not pass. I think it's obvious to most Rovers fans that Reed, who is many times the player either of the other two are, should be in the middle instead of being wasted out wide.

It is easy to blame our holding midefielders but how can they break up play when there is always an easy ball for the opposition? How many times do we see the one or both opposition full backs be totally unmarked as the game progresses. This allows them to press forward and usually overlap leaving our fullbacks exposed. On Saturday for 75 minutes Pedersen , their left back, looked a donkey. All of a sudden he is pressing forward as an extra midfielder. This will always be the case with Armstrong playing wide or any other forward playing wide as they have no interest in tracking back. Reid, and Bennett before him, tend to drift inside especially when our midfield drops deep and Dack tends to go looking for the ball so drops deeper and deeper which leaves our forward  isolated up front. Graham up front increase the chance of holding the ball up or winning a free kick. 

I agree our midfielders do tend to drop deeper and I have suggested before that one reason for this they tire after 70 minutes and can't cover the ground. Several times Mowbray has made substutions either taking Smallwood or Evans off but Saturday he left both on and suffered.

Our centre backs also need to take a look at themselves though as several times they just aimlessly just either headed the ball to the opposition with little attempt to find a Rovers player. The fact that both full backs where making the same mistakes week in week out is very worrying because it shows they are not getting coached very well.

To blame just two players, like those blaming the substituition of Graham or Raya's mistake, are making scapegoats when it is a team issue. 

The issues aren't new either and still we've yet to see a solution.

[JBiz]

8 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I don't think I've ever been as cold and uncomfortable watching a game as I was yesterday but when Armstrong scored an excellent second goal I consoled myself witth the thought that "Oh well at least we've got the three points." Should've known better and I am now thoroughly hacked off with this group of players after in consecutive games watching them fail to draw with ten men over 70 mins then failing to win after taking a two goal lead at home. It's nothing new and indeed we would have squandered a three goal lead at Stoke had they not missed a penalty. I don't know what it is but we're lacking a certain something which is stopping us from getting over the line in games be it bottle, concentration, panic, desire or whatever. Whatever it is it's up to Mowbray to sort it out because the failing is very reminiscent of the season under Coyle and it could still be a bit of a slog to safety if we continue to fold like a deck of cards whenever we're put under a bit of pressure.

The bold part, in my view, is the biggest line of lies, rubbish, nonsense, that I’ve read on this website for some time.

Congratulations

[chaddyrovers]

10 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Whatever it is it's up to Mowbray to sort it out because the failing is very reminiscent of the season under Coyle and it could still be a bit of a slog to safety if we continue to fold like a deck of cards whenever we're put under a bit of pressure.

Is this joke or something? 

We arent going down at all. 

Nothing of this season reminds me of his time in charge here. Even comparing it is a complete and utter joke

[Boz]

Just about dried off and am now warm enough to add my two penneth, for what it's worth...

Save for a crazy five minutes, Saturday was a game whereby we were in total control, always a risk with younger players that they might do something daft, hopefully they might learn soon, regrettably whenever we do anything silly, we are getting punished, whereby in League One not quite so. Perhaps we shouldn't be so hard on them, as they too were obviously disappointed and are hurting equally if not more so. I am hopeful that Raya, Bell, Nyambe, Lenihan, Armstrong, Brereton might all look back on Saturday and take out the positives. We do have experience in Mulgrew, Williams, Evans, Conway, Bennett, Graham, I'd like to add Smallwood to this group, but he just is too impetuous himself at times and not the most level headed, he managed to give the ball away far too often in the first half, whereas Evans I thought was most accomplished once again, I might have moved Reed from out wide into the middle, taking Richie off, hindsight... Just on losing possession, Lenihan needs to stop those long diagonal balls, invariably possession is lost, give the ball to Charlie or Corry.  Matches like Saturday when we should be closing matches out, we really missed Conway and Bennett, the protection they provide to our young full backs, even if it's just making themselves available to take a ball off them when they are under pressure is immense. As for Ben, it just didn't happen for the lad when he came on, with the ball no longer sticking up top, perhaps we should not underestimate the difficulty in him making an impact into a game midway through the match? His confidence doesn't look great, I'd have been tempted to say perhaps start with him and see if this makes any difference, as he no doubt does ability, yet we've not seen it, he really could do with him shinning a mishit in somehow. 

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Boz

[roversfan99]

9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I think as usual Parson you're vastly over-estimating the contribution of Graham. On Saturday, once again for me he looked miles off the pace and I don't think he touched the ball during the first eighteen minutes before making a very well timed run to score. He is in a very rich vein of scoring form but contributed little else before being withdrawn and I don't think you can in any way shape or form attribute our collapse to his withdrawal.

There is something not quite right with this group of players and I'm not sure what it is but if I had to speculate on the most likely reason I'd say that the manager's negative mindset has embedded itself in the players psyche. When we take the lead the aim seems to be to see the game out rather than seeing if we can press on and put the game beyond doubt. This invariably leads to the opposition putting us under pressure and more often than not to them scoring. If that does happen we seem to completely go to pieces and have no idea how to tough the game out or even step our own game up and start giving the opposition problems again.

As others, have said, whilst Raya made a bad mistake for the first, that doesn't necessarily mean the game has to end 2-2 and a well disciplined and organised side should have been quite capable of seeing the game out.

The first place I'd be shining the microscope is at our two so called holding midfielders Evans and Smallwood. Their lack of creativity is well documented but when the pressure is on they're about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. They're the two who should be picking up the tempo when we suffer a setback, who should be reclaiming the game by the scruff of the neck and who should be ensuring the opposition do not pass. I think it's obvious to most Rovers fans that Reed, who is many times the player either of the other two are, should be in the middle instead of being wasted out wide.

I thought that Graham was our best player on Saturday yet again. The first thing that we need to bare in mind is the supply and style of play that we adopt is not one that favours our attackers, and whoever is up there is going to be feeding off scraps. For all this talk about "The Mowbray Way," we play the most long balls in the league, very much play the percentages and it can be a hard watch to be honest, and I bet its even harder to be a striker in.

Graham is the master at holding the ball up with very poor service. He wins headers v taller centre backs, hes clever in terms of giving the defender a slight nudge on the blind side of the ref to gain an advantage, hes the only player on the same wavelength as Dack and the pair of them are scoring goals with regularity in a side thats anything but creative. We look far more threatening during intermittent bursts of pressing, winning the ball back high and playing a few one touch passes at speed but it is all too infrequent.

The main difference when Brereton comes on is that his first touch is notably worse and invariably loses possession. He also failed to even challenge on more than one occasion in the air which caused frustration.

Other than that, agree with your points regarding the psychology of the team and also Mowbray being too loyal to Smallwood in particular at the expense of any control in the game. If Reed is needed wide right to cover up deficiencies in Mowbrays summer recruitment, which is galling in itself, then I think Rodwell should play alongside Evans to give us a bit more control in there. I dont think Smallwood played a successful pass in the first half and at one stage he was tackled by the wind.

[RevidgeBlue]

7 hours ago, Biz said:

The bold part, in my view, is the biggest line of lies, rubbish, nonsense, that I’ve read on this website for some time.

Congratulations

Once again you've misquoted me and accused me of saying something completely different to what I actually said. I said "the failing" (of leaking goals and being able to hold on to a lead) was reminiscent of the season under Coyle. 

I suspect you're doing this intentionally. If not I'm assuming people can actually read what I post on here and won't sort of half read it then go off at the deep end  having completely misinterpreted what I posted.

Edited December 17, 2018 by RevidgeBlue

[booth]

On 15/12/2018 at 19:41, DaveyB said:

Mowbray did pick them and they got us into a comfortable 2-0 lead with 15 mins left to play. If these players were as bad as some on here are making out then surely that would never have happened - we should be getting rolled over week in week out if you believed the pundits on here, since we have no decent full backs, no proper wingers, no central midfield, no creativity going forward, no commanding centrehalf - it's a miracle that we not 20 points adrift at the foot of the table really ? 

Raya cost us two points today - not Mowbray, not Brereton, not a mentality of sitting back or anything else. It was a brainfart moment from the goalkeeper which gifted them a way back into a game that was all but won up to that point.

And if anyone thinks that Mowbray didn't read him the riot act after the game then they obviously don't sit as close behind him as we do - he was absolutely livid on the touchline in that second half

And perhaps if that money had been invested more wisely we'd have had a team more capable of keeping clean sheets.

The issue of the signing of Brereton is more than just his quality on the pitch.

[Ewood Ace]

On ‎15‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 19:41, DaveyB said:

Raya cost us two points today - not Mowbray, not Brereton, not a mentality of sitting back or anything else. It was a brainfart moment from the goalkeeper which gifted them a way back into a game that was all but won up to that point.

And if anyone thinks that Mowbray didn't read him the riot act after the game then they obviously don't sit as close behind him as we do - he was absolutely livid on the touchline in that second half

Correct me if I'm wrong but even after the penalty were we not still 2-1 up at home to an average Birmingham side with just 12 minutes left to play. We really should still be seeing the game out.

[DaveyB]

56 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but even after the penalty were we not still 2-1 up at home to an average Birmingham side with just 12 minutes left to play. We really should still be seeing the game out.

I don’t disagree, but I’m sure you know as well as I do that momentum is a huge thing in football and that’s the reason that 2-0 is often described as a dangerous lead, as if the team behind score 1 they often then go on to get another. 

As others have said that game was about the most comfortable I’ve seen Rovers in a number of years - we were coasting and the game was drifting, Birmingham didn’t look like creating anything let alone scoring 2. However, a completely needless penalty gave them a foothold in the game, put us on edge and suddenly the momentum was all with them. 

That’s not to excuse the rest of the team for failing to hold out at 2-1, but Raya’s mistake was the catalyst for the collapse and to my mind that makes him, in the words of Alan Sugar, ultimately responsible for the failure of the task

[blueboy3333]

8 hours ago, Boz said:

Lenihan needs to stop those long diagonal balls, invariably possession is lost, give the ball to Charlie or Corry. 

He's told to do that by Mowbray. That is a tactic. 

[OldEwoodBlue]

48 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

He's told to do that by Mowbray. That is a tactic. 

Boz is correct

It’s either a tactic as you say or Lenihan is just a bit thick / rubbish

[Bigdoggsteel]

Well if it is a tactic, he needs to execute it better!