Rovers v Birmingham-Saturday ,December 15th

[OldEwoodBlue]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Nit picking a tad but wasnt too impressed with Mowbray saying maybe "thats just where we are."

 

Mowbray, give us a shrug

Mowbray Mowbray give us a shrug

[Songman]

I don't think the fact that it was an individual mistake from Raya that let them back in the game can be argued. The point people are making (I think) is we weren't doing an awful lot to go and put the game to bed when Birmingham were a sitting duck.

Also the criticisms of TM on this particular aspect are very valid in my eyes, 16 points dropped from winning positions this season (bottom club Ipswich have 14 points). Think where we could be if we had held onto half of those.

He says maybe it's where we are at. I would agree with that if we were playing well and coming out with draws, the fact we are 5 points from the play offs without playing well for large parts makes me disagree with that statement.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Songman

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Nit picking a tad but wasnt too impressed with Mowbray saying maybe "thats just where we are."

He was right to feel frustrated, I dont think that a constant surrendering of points is ever something that you should be accepting of or is just a growing pain.

What makes you say that Brereton would suit a passing style, his first touch and technical ability are certainly not his strong suits?

I dont think that a total change of tact from a long ball team to a passing team is imminent or reasonable and there are no signs that it is being gradually done.

We need competition at right back now, Travis is seen as a midfielder, as is Bennett. 

I took that comment as we are mid table team and not a team who should be challenging for top 2. 

haven't I already expect this before? his movement and running in behind defence from Through balls. 

Look at the link Ive posted to you and its explained Mowbray thinking to the passing style. Blimey 

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I took that comment as we are mid table team and not a team who should be challenging for top 2. 

haven't I already expect this before? his movement and running in behind defence from Through balls. 

Look at the link Ive posted to you and its explained Mowbray thinking to the passing style. Blimey 

I believe the comment was part of a follow up to a question about us throwing away 2 more points, nothing to do with our league position in general.

[chaddyrovers]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I believe the comment was part of a follow up to a question about us throwing away 2 more points, nothing to do with our league position in general.

I listened to the interview live as it happened and that is what I think he meant by his comments. 

I will listened to the Rovers player interview after today PL games have finish

[jim mk2]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

what a stupid and daft comment to make Jim. Mowbray signed a new contract 2 weeks ago. Should really try reading Mowbray's comments about how he is going to grow the club/playing staff wise over the coming years. The owners have and its time fans like yourself do instead of pointless cheap comments/digs

Mowbray isn't the man to take us forward in my opinion.  You have to be a tough nut in he warnock mould or a very good coach to get out of this division and Mowbray is neither.  Where is the evidence he can solve the continuing defensive weakness ? Why can't he see graham has to stay on the field even if he is tired? Then there's the brereton farce and the poor summer transfer window. So many question marks over the manager I don't see why you have such blind faith in him 

[Bigdoggsteel]

20 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Mowbray isn't the man to take us forward in my opinion.  You have to be a tough nut in he warnock mould or a very good coach to get out of this division and Mowbray is neither.  Where is the evidence he can solve the continuing defensive weakness ? Why can't he see graham has to stay on the field even if he is tired? Then there's the brereton farce and the poor summer transfer window. So many question marks over the manager I don't see why you have such blind faith in him 

But Mowbray got out of this division before. 

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Why would he step aside when he has committed to the club long term?  He has always said this was a long term project, which is what the owners have now bought into.  Until the rebuilding is complete this is "where we are at" in terms of the players available.  

There aren't players in the Under-23's who look ready to be promoted - Nuttall has been excellent the last two games but indifferent prior to that whilst Travis has been in and out form wise for the Under-23's.  Both will benefit from a loan period where they are playing every week.

I thought yesterday was down to individual mistakes more than a collective failure of the team.  For the most part we looked very comfortable until Graham went off.

Both Nuttall and Travis were brought into the first team squad and then unceremoniously dropped. Mowbray has no clue how to handle the step up from the U23s. He is loyal to a fault and presumably believes the players will repay that loyalty. Problems arise where those loyal players aren’t good enough. He backed the wrong horse with Samuel too.

We need to upgrade most of the side. Considering we have spent over £10m in the last 12 months and aren’t promoting the youth that’s a damning indictment.

[Ewood Ace]

3 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Why would he step aside when he has committed to the club long term?  He has always said this was a long term project, which is what the owners have now bought into.  Until the rebuilding is complete this is "where we are at" in terms of the players available.  

There aren't players in the Under-23's who look ready to be promoted - Nuttall has been excellent the last two games but indifferent prior to that whilst Travis has been in and out form wise for the Under-23's.  Both will benefit from a loan period where they are playing every week.

I thought yesterday was down to individual mistakes more than a collective failure of the team.  For the most part we looked very comfortable until Graham went off.

Let's hope we get them better loans moves than we got Wharton, Hardcastle and Platt (all 3 have barley played). Nuttall and Travis have already had half a season wasted at a key stage in their development a bad loan move and they will have both wasted a year. I personally would rather see Travis in the centre of midfield than Smallwood, as for Nuttall I don't think he would offer any less upfront that Brereton.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Ewood Ace

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

If it the 7 mil fee that people think can be spend better far enough but surely its a pointless discussion as this money was spent already. The Brereton permanent deal is done and dusted. 

If your missus had been saving up money for Christmas and you went out and spent it at the bookies and lost it all, do you think that “it’s a pointless discussion as the money is spent already” would save you from criticism (or an untimely death)?

Or would it be something that you never heard the end of - especially when you opened the kitchen cupboard and enquired why you could only find the Smart Price baked beans instead of your favourite brand?

[Miller11]

Can we stop trying to pinpoint one player as the reason we dropped points yesterday.

Blaming ‘individual errors’ is a lazy excuse used by managers and fans and spectators lap it up. If you have a look on any Birmingham message board, I expect there is quite a bit of talk about how they gave themselves a mountain to climb thanks to their centre half losing Graham, and there full back letting Armstrong get away from him and then ball watching.

Fact of the matter is we are struggling to see games out. It’s becoming a pattern. It’s not Brereton or Raya’s fault - we need to be better collectively over 90 minutes. The system we employ plays to the strengths of Graham and Dack to the extent where we rely on them very heavily. It seems to, in Mowbray’s mind at least, necessitate playing Evans and Smallwood, both of whom I believe we have better options than but we end up playing better players out of position. It exposes our full backs to be doubled up on, and restricts the amount of balls we put into the box from wide positions. 

We do tend to look lost without Graham on the pitch, and if/when Dack goes, Mowbray may well have to have a rethink.

[Tom Stinny]

I think with any young player the best thing a manager can do is show faith in them. Whose to say Brereton wouldn't step up if he knew he would be given a run of games. Experience brings a consistently that very few younger players can match.

 

The team as a squad is in a very peculiar situation in that we have a number of flair/lively players who could do well in this league but don't get game time.

 

I think players such as Smallwood, Lenihan, Armstrong have been given more than enough game time to get consistency and yet they still aren't delivering.

 

What would be everyone's best team and formation to play with this squad? Personally I think the following could work.

 

Raya

Nyambe Downing Mulgrew Williams

Rothwell Evans Reed

Dack 

Graham Brereton

 

When you look at the squad we have the four most important players down the middle I think would get in or around the first eleven of any team in this league in Mulgrew, Reed, Dack and Graham.

 

We don't have anyone capable of playing on the wing so we might as well not play wingers if no one can make it work. Let the fallbacks get up as they can't defend anyway.

 

Dack will always have to play as he's the best player but he can be invisible when things don't go well resulting in a 10 vs 11 type of game.

 

I think that eventually when he does go I could see Rothwell being a different kind of replacement for him with a change in formation. I do think he will be sold in the summer by pushing through a move. He did the same at Gillingham so if a team further up comes in I don't have much hope for loyalty.

 

I don't think this team should accept bottom half as it's better individually then most teams in the bottom half.

 

Would people accept Dack leaving if it meant a change of formation and four quality additions to the team? Could see a line up next year off.

 

Raya

Nyambe New Mulgrew Williams

Reed New Rothwell

New Graham/Brereton New

 

I do think a commanding centre back could pull both Nyambe and Williams up a level or two. Which is why I'd peruse with them. But if money was left over. A new left back would be a position to look at as well.

 

Think a centre back to lead the team at the back who loves defending and a centre midfielder who is a class above most in the league would more than cover for Dack if two wingers where added as well. I'd rather Dack was kept and added to any new signings though.

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, Tom Stinny said:

I think with any young player the best thing a manager can do is show faith in them. Whose to say Brereton wouldn't step up if he knew he would be given a run of games. Experience brings a consistently that very few younger players can match.

 

The team as a squad is in a very peculiar situation in that we have a number of flair/lively players who could do well in this league but don't get game time.

 

I think players such as Smallwood, Lenihan, Armstrong have been given more than enough game time to get consistency and yet they still aren't delivering.

 

What would be everyone's best team and formation to play with this squad? Personally I think the following could work.

 

Raya

Nyambe Downing Mulgrew Williams

Rothwell Evans Reed

Dack 

Graham Brereton

 

When you look at the squad we have the four most important players down the middle I think would get in or around the first eleven of any team in this league in Mulgrew, Reed, Dack and Graham.

 

We don't have anyone capable of playing on the wing so we might as well not play wingers if no one can make it work. Let the fallbacks get up as they can't defend anyway.

 

Dack will always have to play as he's the best player but he can be invisible when things don't go well resulting in a 10 vs 11 type of game.

 

I think that eventually when he does go I could see Rothwell being a different kind of replacement for him with a change in formation. I do think he will be sold in the summer by pushing through a move. He did the same at Gillingham so if a team further up comes in I don't have much hope for loyalty.

 

I don't think this team should accept bottom half as it's better individually then most teams in the bottom half.

 

Would people accept Dack leaving if it meant a change of formation and four quality additions to the team? Could see a line up next year off.

 

Raya

Nyambe New Mulgrew Williams

Reed New Rothwell

New Graham/Brereton New

 

I do think a commanding centre back could pull both Nyambe and Williams up a level or two. Which is why I'd peruse with them. But if money was left over. A new left back would be a position to look at as well.

 

Think a centre back to lead the team at the back who loves defending and a centre midfielder who is a class above most in the league would more than cover for Dack if two wingers where added as well. I'd rather Dack was kept and added to any new signings though.

I think that when Dack goes, we are in trouble due to our reliance on him and his at times underappreciated consistency in terms of goals and assists.

None of the signings that Mowbray has made have suggested that they can come close to taking on that mantle, and where do the goals come from then?

I find your comment that "he can be invisible when things don't go well resulting in a 10 vs 11 type of game" to be incredibly harsh, he more than anyone shows for the ball and even yesterday he was coming for me a little too deep to try and get involved. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Mowbray isn't the man to take us forward in my opinion.  You have to be a tough nut in he warnock mould or a very good coach to get out of this division and Mowbray is neither.  Where is the evidence he can solve the continuing defensive weakness ? Why can't he see graham has to stay on the field even if he is tired? Then there's the brereton farce and the poor summer transfer window. So many question marks over the manager I don't see why you have such blind faith in him 

so we are meant to play with 10 men cos Jim doesn't want to take Graham off even if he injured or tired. cracking management so please you aren't in charge of Blackburn Rovers or my boss at work. 

I trust Mowbray 100%. Best manager since Hughes IMO. 

35 minutes ago, Stuart said:

If your missus had been saving up money for Christmas and you went out and spent it at the bookies and lost it all, do you think that “it’s a pointless discussion as the money is spent already” would save you from criticism (or an untimely death)?

Or would it be something that you never heard the end of - especially when you opened the kitchen cupboard and enquired why you could only find the Smart Price baked beans instead of your favourite brand?

very extreme there Stuart and think you are over thinking your brain. 

30 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Can we stop trying to pinpoint one player as the reason we dropped points yesterday.

Blaming ‘individual errors’ is a lazy excuse used by managers and fans and spectators lap it up. If you have a look on any Birmingham message board, I expect there is quite a bit of talk about how they gave themselves a mountain to climb thanks to their centre half losing Graham, and there full back letting Armstrong get away from him and then ball watching.

Fact of the matter is we are struggling to see games out. It’s becoming a pattern. It’s not Brereton or Raya’s fault - we need to be better collectively over 90 minutes. The system we employ plays to the strengths of Graham and Dack to the extent where we rely on them very heavily. It seems to, in Mowbray’s mind at least, necessitate playing Evans and Smallwood, both of whom I believe we have better options than but we end up playing better players out of position. It exposes our full backs to be doubled up on, and restricts the amount of balls we put into the box from wide positions. 

We do tend to look lost without Graham on the pitch, and if/when Dack goes, Mowbray may well have to have a rethink.

sorry Miller but yesterday 2 points dropped was down to Raya's mistake and Nyambe/Bell mistake. 

we were very comfortable and looking at easy 2 nil wil

27 minutes ago, Tom Stinny said:

I think with any young player the best thing a manager can do is show faith in them. Whose to say Brereton wouldn't step up if he knew he would be given a run of games. Experience brings a consistently that very few younger players can match.

 

The team as a squad is in a very peculiar situation in that we have a number of flair/lively players who could do well in this league but don't get game time.

 

I think players such as Smallwood, Lenihan, Armstrong have been given more than enough game time to get consistency and yet they still aren't delivering.

 

What would be everyone's best team and formation to play with this squad? Personally I think the following could work.

 

Raya

Nyambe Downing Mulgrew Williams

Rothwell Evans Reed

Dack 

Graham Brereton

 

When you look at the squad we have the four most important players down the middle I think would get in or around the first eleven of any team in this league in Mulgrew, Reed, Dack and Graham.

 

We don't have anyone capable of playing on the wing so we might as well not play wingers if no one can make it work. Let the fallbacks get up as they can't defend anyway.

 

Dack will always have to play as he's the best player but he can be invisible when things don't go well resulting in a 10 vs 11 type of game.

 

I think that eventually when he does go I could see Rothwell being a different kind of replacement for him with a change in formation. I do think he will be sold in the summer by pushing through a move. He did the same at Gillingham so if a team further up comes in I don't have much hope for loyalty.

 

I don't think this team should accept bottom half as it's better individually then most teams in the bottom half.

 

Would people accept Dack leaving if it meant a change of formation and four quality additions to the team? Could see a line up next year off.

 

Raya

Nyambe New Mulgrew Williams

Reed New Rothwell

New Graham/Brereton New

 

I do think a commanding centre back could pull both Nyambe and Williams up a level or two. Which is why I'd peruse with them. But if money was left over. A new left back would be a position to look at as well.

 

Think a centre back to lead the team at the back who loves defending and a centre midfielder who is a class above most in the league would more than cover for Dack if two wingers where added as well. I'd rather Dack was kept and added to any new signings though.

if Dack does leave I would look at making Rothwell our playmaker and I would tempt to play 4-3-3 

[Stuart]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

very extreme there Stuart and think you are over thinking your brain. 

How is it extreme? It sums up the Brereton situation quite aptly.

We’ve spent all that money but you think it shouldn’t be a discussion point because “oh well it’s too late now”.

[Bbrovers2288]

Mid table team with a mid table manager which is where I see us for next few seasons with Tony as manager. There will come a point we will need to take a gamble where we either give mowbray a significant war chest to strengthen squad to get rid of the Williams and Smallwoods of the team but allow for a mowbray dropabollock as we have seen with the breretons, gladwins, Hart, Samuel but hoping a pulls a few more dacks out that or we gamble with a change in the manager to pull us up to the upper echos of the league. If venkys do neither it could be a rather frustrating few seasons ahead 

[Crimpshrine]

6 hours ago, Franky said:

Mowbray, give us a shrug

Mowbray Mowbray give us a shrug

This is exactly what I thought after his post match interview - "I guess that shows just about where we are" when talking about losing a two goal lead. He should have been absolutely fuming but he seemed very calm about it all.  Oh dear never mind!

At the supporters consultation he was saying we could compete with every other team in the division and was talking about getting significant backing from the owners if we are in with a shout of the playoff places in January. Now he seems reasonably content with mid table. 

He hasn't just had a long contract extension by any chance?

 

 

Edited December 16, 2018 by Crimpshrine

[jim mk2]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

so we are meant to play with 10 men cos Jim doesn't want to take Graham off even if he injured or tired. cracking management so please you aren't in charge of Blackburn Rovers or my boss at work. 

I trust Mowbray 100%. Best manager since Hughes IMO. 

 

I never mentioned if he were injured - you're making it up again.

A tired Graham is better than no Graham on the pitch - look what happens when he goes off. Yesterday was another example.

The best manager at Ewood since Hughes is Sam Allardyce. No one else gets near. 

[Exiled in Toronto]

6 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Can we stop trying to pinpoint one player as the reason we dropped points yesterday.

Blaming ‘individual errors’ is a lazy excuse used by managers and fans and spectators lap it up. If you have a look on any Birmingham message board, I expect there is quite a bit of talk about how they gave themselves a mountain to climb thanks to their centre half losing Graham, and there full back letting Armstrong get away from him and then ball watching.

Fact of the matter is we are struggling to see games out. It’s becoming a pattern. It’s not Brereton or Raya’s fault - we need to be better collectively over 90 minutes. The system we employ plays to the strengths of Graham and Dack to the extent where we rely on them very heavily. It seems to, in Mowbray’s mind at least, necessitate playing Evans and Smallwood, both of whom I believe we have better options than but we end up playing better players out of position. It exposes our full backs to be doubled up on, and restricts the amount of balls we put into the box from wide positions. 

We do tend to look lost without Graham on the pitch, and if/when Dack goes, Mowbray may well have to have a rethink.

Dack looks lost without Graham on the pitch IMO

[Uddersfelt Blue]

I’m not concerned about the “where we are” comment from TM as he at least is being honest and probably reflecting what most Rovers fans are thinking anyway,

What I am concerned about is that we threw away a game that we deserved to win against another “where we are” team, through failure to defend a 2-0 lead. If Graham needed to be substituted then why go for a replacement striker. We could have packed the midfield or even put in another defender. Armstrong up on his own would have been sufficient. Instead we carried on pushing forward and got caught out through errors from Raya, Nyambe and Bell. 

The Brereton argument is just a red herring. There is no way should he be expected to replace Graham, he’s not as experienced nor strong enough to mix it with good defenders.

 

Edited December 16, 2018 by Uddersfelt Blue

[DeeCee]

Never will be unless he gets game time.

 

[47er]

6 hours ago, Stuart said:

Both Nuttall and Travis were brought into the first team squad and then unceremoniously dropped. Mowbray has no clue how to handle the step up from the U23s. He is loyal to a fault and presumably believes the players will repay that loyalty. Problems arise where those loyal players aren’t good enough. He backed the wrong horse with Samuel too.

We need to upgrade most of the side. Considering we have spent over £10m in the last 12 months and aren’t promoting the youth that’s a damning indictment.

The danger is that players like Travis (and Bothwell for that matter) will get fed up by lack of game time and look for pastures new. Travis, particularly is at the stage where he should be improving with experience.

On another point, if Travis does leave, can we keep his girl friend?!

[RevidgeBlue]

I don't think I've ever been as cold and uncomfortable watching a game as I was yesterday but when Armstrong scored an excellent second goal I consoled myself witth the thought that "Oh well at least we've got the three points." Should've known better and I am now thoroughly hacked off with this group of players after in consecutive games watching them fail to draw with ten men over 70 mins then failing to win after taking a two goal lead at home. It's nothing new and indeed we would have squandered a three goal lead at Stoke had they not missed a penalty. I don't know what it is but we're lacking a certain something which is stopping us from getting over the line in games be it bottle, concentration, panic, desire or whatever. Whatever it is it's up to Mowbray to sort it out because the failing is very reminiscent of the season under Coyle and it could still be a bit of a slog to safety if we continue to fold like a deck of cards whenever we're put under a bit of pressure.

[Bigdoggsteel]

8 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

Let's hope we get them better loans moves than we got Wharton, Hardcastle and Platt (all 3 have barley played). Nuttall and Travis have already had half a season wasted at a key stage in their development a bad loan move and they will have both wasted a year. I personally would rather see Travis in the centre of midfield than Smallwood, as for Nuttall I don't think he would offer any less upfront that Brereton.

Maybe the youth players aren't that good  if they haven't played at the clubs they are loaned to. What other explanation is there? 

I like the look of Travis, he should probably get a few more opportunities. However saying he should come in and play instead of Smallwood is a bit much. I would prefer to see Reed there for  a start. 

I wouldn't mind seeing Nuttall get brought on either.  Not sure Mowbray is a huge fan 

Edited December 16, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[Sparks Rover]

3 hours ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

Armstrong up on his own would have been sufficient. Instead we carried on pushing forward and got caught out through errors from Raya, Nyambe and Bell. 

I don't think he can win here mate, gets bollocked on here for sitting back and inviting pressure and you're having a go for trying to batter them.  We were strolling, so he was right to bring BB on and it was set up for him to get one. 

However, we have a goalie that's been here a long time, and in my opinion we would never consider buying Raya if he was on the market.  Too small, no good from crosses, kicking is very poor and not improving, he flaps, gets over excited and creates a sense of panic at times.  Yes, he's a good shot stopper at times, but you expect a professional keeper to have good reflexes.....anything Raya has to think about he's not up to it. 

He changed the whole mood of the game.  I actually felt that many of the Brum players had given up with the weather etc, we were coasting.