Leeds United v Rovers: Boxing Day 2018, 3pm

[alcd]

Is there any level of inepitude that Mowbray would criticise? Also his assessment of the performance up to 90 mins is extremely rose-tinted as Rovers looked decidedly second-best in most areas. Only Raya, Dack, and, briefly, Reed matched Leeds in open play and Mulgrew from deadball kicks.  Mowbray has a managerial track record of overseeing collapses after Xmas and this one has come early. Even at this point the 10 point gap from the bottom 3 looks wafer-thin and upcoming matches against Millwall (A) and Ipswich(H) are already looking like 6 pointers. Unfortunately Waggott and Venkys are so in love with Mowbray I suspect any recognition of his manifest limitations is likely to come too late. 

[Stuart]

2 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

you seriously think we ll get relegated BB ? 

Serious question: what makes you think we won’t/can’t?

[RoverCanada]

1 hour ago, MarkBRFC71 said:

Why should it be a strength??  They are both converted midfielders who were our number one partnership last time we slipped out of this league.  A number of us on here said our priority signing on promotion should've been a proper, old-school, blood and thunder centre half as Mulgrew/Lenihan aren't up to it.  Being proven every week.  Number one rule in football, you build a team from the back on a solid defence that doesn't give away many goals - you don't spunk £7m on a young striker with 'potential' unless you are Man City or Liverpool.

Yeah, fair point on them essentially being converted midfielders, although you'd think they'd have well adapted by now. When I wrote they should be a strength in the air, I meant because they can both be quite good individually in the air, yet they've been struggling to organise between themselves in the box.

I suppose the naive thought is that Mulgrew and Lenihan can be a solid combo: Mulgrew dictating and passing, Lenihan the physical bull. Yet Mulgrew's been pretty disappointing in the air this year (hardly our biggest issue, and he's still an automatic pick, but he seems to escape criticism for his defensive work this year on here...), while Lenihan's been all over the place. They were solid enough in L1, but they're getting exposed this year. Downing always seems seconds away from an individual calamity, but we did seem more organised with him back there being a career-long CB.

Anyway, I'll have to see the highlights again before going off of too much of a tangent on those two, who I do like individually... not 100% sure they were really at fault today.

At the risk of putting my head above the parapet, despite the injury time collapse I thought we'd acquitted ourselves quite well until then against one of the league's top sides away. There are some positives to take from this one... A win would've been a steal, but I thought we well-deserved a point. (I'm aware it can feel like I'm saying 'yes, we had to amputate your leg, but your cholesterol is looking good!'...)

4 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Serious question: what makes you think we won’t/can’t?

Worth pointing out the bottom 3 is pretty poor at the moment and are looking on pace for ~40 points. So we're not looking at a year like when we got relegated with 51 points.

Edited December 26, 2018 by RoverCanada

[blueboy3333]

10 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

you seriously think we ll get relegated BB ? 

I think we're starting to put pressure on ourselves. Our next three look tricky. After that we have 3 winnables at home. If we draw those games like we tend to do against teams near the bottom then, yes, we are in trouble. 

Question for you. Do you think this team has the bottle and resilience to win a relegation battle?

I just hope we get a win very soon.

Edited December 26, 2018 by blueboy3333

[AAK]

7 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

you seriously think we ll get relegated BB ? 

Who knows, one things for sure, if the trend continues then we will be falling down the rankings pretty quickly and these lot are weak as piss, so it would certainly be hardwork. 

Radio lancs, Gallagher said this team needs reinforcements at the back for sure but not just there, he is spot on. Mowbray again mentioned "we need some in who are going to help us out" he says that a lot and I always find it a strange phrase to use, 'help us out' points toward him not wanting to upset the current crop of which in part consists of shite. So he's scared of upsetting some players who aren't good enough anyway, why? They're crap, additionally it always indicates looking toward loans as the 'help us out' indicates a temporary fix, but his loan market record is dreadful, bar reed. And we need a permanent fix.

Edited December 26, 2018 by AAK

[HowieFive0]

Just now, Stuart said:

Serious question: what makes you think we won’t/can’t?

Because we pick points up within reason  ..and give the top sides a  decent run for their money . Ala Sheff Utd ..last season .

[Stuart]

This is what these results do to the team...

Devastating.

Talk of us “competing with teams” after a loss are straight out of Mowbray’s football handbook. It starts to sound hollow after a while.

With Kean and Coyle it was easier in some ways because they were despised. Tony is still liked by Rovers fans and, I expect, the players too.

[AAK]

1 minute ago, HowieFive0 said:

Because we pick points up within reason  ..and give the top sides a  decent run for their money . Ala Sheff Utd ..last season .

Things is though, if you take dack out of that team, what theats do we pose?

[blueboy3333]

3 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

Because we pick points up within reason  ..and give the top sides a  decent run for their money . Ala Sheff Utd ..last season .

We did. Momentum has left us. We've got 6 pts from the last 24.

[DE.]

1 minute ago, Stuart said:

This is what these results do to the team...

Devastating.

Talk of us “competing with teams” after a loss are straight out of Mowbray’s football handbook. It starts to sound hollow after a while.

With Kean and Coyle it was easier in some ways because they were despised. Tony is still liked by Rovers fans and, I expect, the players too.

So 24 shots to 8, 10 on target versus 2 and 71% to 29% is competitive? Yeah, okay. 

[HowieFive0]

1 minute ago, blueboy3333 said:

I think we're starting to put pressure on ourselves. Our next three look tricky. After that we have 3 winnables at home. If we draw those games like we tend to do against teams near the bottom then, yes, we are in trouble. 

Yep we ve hit a run of tough games ..but not necessarily getting super thrapped.Boro Brum Norwich Leeds Sheff Utd WBA ….top six sides ..always gonna be tough as a newly promoted team .

[rigger]

5 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I think we're starting to put pressure on ourselves. Our next three look tricky. After that we have 3 winnables at home. If we draw those games like we tend to do against teams near the bottom then, yes, we are in trouble. 

But if we don’t, then we aren’t 

[Stuart]

Just now, DE. said:

So 24 shots to 8, 10 on target versus 2 and 71% to 29% is competitive? Yeah, okay. 

I guess it’s competitive if they don’t score until the 92nd minute?

[Tom Stinny]

17 minutes ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

We're a million miles from Leeds mate, in terms of setup. Venkys are totally reliant on the manager. They won't have the balls to get rid of Mowbray even if it was the right thing to do as who the hell are they going bring in? 

Fair enough. It wasn't a dig out or anything it's just for a good few weeks now it's felt far to comfy at Rovers. Everyone's good mates and there's plenty of "banter".

 

I don't think this manager will be the guy to take the club to the next level. Even if he had lots to spend every transfer window. He doesn't have that ruthlessness about him to win at all costs.

 

If I was given a choice now of ditching these owners for a group who have enough money to run the club but not 10s of millions to give in transfers but they had a genuine plan and ambition then I would do.

 

But that also goes for the manager. There are definitely better managers out there now for free who would get more out of this group.

 

Conceding in the last 15 minutes of games consistently should be criminal at professional level and it's down to tactics, attitude and fitness. All of these start at the manager. 

 

It's just bloody frustrating as I don't think there's is a massively stand out group of teams in this league. Correct ambition would get us promoted.

 

I'm not one to feel eternally loyal to someone. I appreciate last season from the manager but the same errors are happening to many times.

[blueboy3333]

2 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

Yep we ve hit a run of tough games ..but not necessarily getting super thrapped.Boro Brum Norwich Leeds Sheff Utd WBA ….top six sides ..always gonna be tough as a newly promoted team .

Add Rotherham, PNE, Wigan. 

[DE.]

Just now, Stuart said:

I guess it’s competitive if they don’t score until the 92nd minute?

Nope, just a fluke result, much like the 0-0 against Derby earlier in the season. 

[HowieFive0]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Add Rotherham, PNE, Wigan. 

well lets see BB ...hopefully ill be pulling this moment up rather than you 

[G Somerset Rover]

23 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

What you want him to do ..f''king nut him and put him on the floor ..infront of everyone ..? ..or maybe do it behind closed doors …….

Clearly that’s ridiculous. But he needs to send a message by sending the likes of Williams for an extended spell on the sidelines as he’s absolutely gash and looks like a pub player weekly.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[tugayislegend]

27 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I think there’s some confusion on here between the meanings of responsibility and accountability.

Who’s responsible for conceding two in the last four minutes: the two centre halves who should have dealt with both crosses, neither of which were from especially dangerous positions, and particularly Rothwell for criminally giving away possession.

Who’s accountable for the long term trend to concede late: the manager. To solve the problem I feel we need a 6’5” veteran centre half and a better left back. January would be nice.

Second half was much better than the first till that point. Smallwood for Rodwell added a lot of energy and pressing. Rothwell’s one attribute of running with the ball got the free kick but, beyond that, I don’t see him as a central midfielder: extremely one-footed and gives it away far too much in critical areas. I think he’s here as Dack’s stand-in. 

 

?

[HowieFive0]

Just now, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Clearly that’s ridiculous. But he needs to send a message by sending the likes of Williams for an extended spell on the sidelines as he’s absolutely gash.

Ahhhh now that's more like it ! A lil common sense GSR!

[Stuart]

Just now, DE. said:

Nope, just a fluke result, much like the 0-0 against Derby earlier in the season. 

Don’t get me wrong I don’t think we are being particularly competitive but I can see how Mowbray might spin in.

My biggest issue with today is just how mentally weak we are. That is where someone like Warnock would have you on your toes. I don’t expect he’d be offering out Werther’s Originals with a shrug and a “It was always going to be a tough ask t’day, lads. Keep your heads up”. Your concentration levels would be razor sharp for fear of having something thrown at you.

Team spirit will get you so far then you need superior players and you build that team spirit back up. You don’t stick with the same bunch of lads out of loyalty. That’s not what professional football is - more’s the pity.

[Stuart]

13 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

Because we pick points up within reason  ..and give the top sides a  decent run for their money . Ala Sheff Utd ..last season .

Its not enough giving top sides a run for their money. When you drop points against lesser sides like we have they need to be robbed from elsewhere.

We are having a terrible run of form that doesn’t look like ending soon. Just how much damage this 10 game run does to team could define our season.

We are clinging not to us picking up points but to those teams at the bottom continuing to be worse than us.

[alcd]

Yet another 2nd half implosion to throw away a lead as the opposition are allowed to score whenever they want. There is simply an inability to even compete at this level as several players - Williams, Bell, Evans, Smallwood, Armstrong, Lenihan, Brereton - are just not good enough. 

[USABlue]

1 hour ago, yellowsubmarine said:

At least they got a draw. We got nothing for our effort.

Its a mentality thing, somehow we ALWAYS are afraid in the last 10 mins of the game.

I harped on a lot about us being mentally soft last season.  Obviiusly olayers thiught we had it won and switched iff.  I missed the game but saw the score and then the timing if the goals and just thought typical.  Grrrr this shower is infuriating.  Hiw many points now lost from winning positions.  We could be in trouble here,  How many points given away in the last 5 or 10 minutes.  Ridiculous really.

[Sparks Rover]

I can’t get over how Williams starts in any championship team. Worst player to wear the shirt for years