What Needs To Change and Where Do We Go From Here?

[DE.]

The same problems we're discussing now were evident from day one when we let a lead slip in the final few minutes against Ipswich - the worst team in the division by some distance. How about when we ended up 2-0 down to Reading, another awful team, and had to rely on them giving us two penalties to get back into it? How about when we nearly threw away a three goal lead at Stoke and only won because they missed a penalty in the last few minutes?

We should all be concerned by this pattern of behaviour. It suggests a very weak mentality within the squad, a lack of confidence seeing out games and at a basic level poor defensive coaching. This all falls under the manager's remit to sort out. 

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

Expectations need to change. 

Mowbray took over from the worst shower of shit since V8nkys slithered into town bar Kean, and I'd even say that's a close run thing. We were an absolute farce under Coyle make no mistake and I dread to think where we'd be now if he was still around. 

We are 14th, 8 points off the play-offs and 10 from relegation which is roughly where our wage structure would put us. Given the fact we came up from League One not a bad effort. Yes we are in a worrying run of form and there are some obvious failings that Mowbray doesn't appear to be able to arrest at the minute but he's certainly earned some patience. 

 

[tomphil]

9 hours ago, sympatheticclaret said:

Repayment of directors loans & other debt, long needed upgrading of our Training facilities and Ground, Players wages and into our Profit & Loss account ...

He's doing fine, thanks !

So they pumped money then took it back with a little cherry on top ?   Thought Burnley did it the hard way with a packet of peanuts ........?

Only real difference is our lot haven't taken their loans back that we can see of yet but they did let others take money partially helping the black hole we still have which they continue to throw into because it suits their accounting process one would wager. Allegedly according to who you believe about how it is all structured if they pulled the plug the debt would be on them so Rovers whilst obviously suffering might end up going the Bolton route but certainly wouldn't go out of business overnight. Unless of course everything over here had been sold or mortgaged against beforehand.

 

[roverandout]

Change of manager. Worked out for southampton when they sacked adkins and appointed poccetino. Same when palace went for broke and gave hodgson the job. Change can take you onto the next level. Mowbary is quickly becoming stale, the same way in which bowyer started to go backwards and we held onto him for too long.

[G Somerset Rover]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

My own personal answer to the thread topic;

Our expectations need to change, and our opinion of players/manager/staff shouldn’t be based on one or two games against the best teams in this league.

The time for big decisions is a long way off.

Agreed we shouldn’t be looking to make any rash decisions - but it’s not one or two games Biz and you know it’s not. One win in eight and we’re freefalling down the league.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[K-Hod]

People saying it’s only one game, or it’s not Mowbray’s fault need to give their head a wobble or open their eyes. Preferably both tbh.

How many late goals do we concede? It’s been exacerbated in recent weeks, but it’s been a running theme this season and in the past as well, to be  fair. Completely unacceptable and it needs to be addressed. There’s a real possibility that we lose the next two games as well, then that puts a hell of a lot of pressure on the game away against Millwall, which is never an easy game!

Edited December 27, 2018 by K-Hod

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

The same problems we're discussing now were evident from day one when we let a lead slip in the final few minutes against Ipswich - the worst team in the division by some distance. How about when we ended up 2-0 down to Reading, another awful team, and had to rely on them giving us two penalties to get back into it? How about when we nearly threw away a three goal lead at Stoke and only won because they missed a penalty in the last few minutes?

We should all be concerned by this pattern of behaviour. It suggests a very weak mentality within the squad, a lack of confidence seeing out games and at a basic level poor defensive coaching. This all falls under the manager's remit to sort out. 

Nail on the head. This has been going on now for 18 months. We cannot see games out. Yesterday took it to a whole new level. I'll be honest, when we went 2-1 up my only celebration was that i believed it would at least ensure we got a point although i fully expected them to make it 2-2 even with only a few minutes left. We simply cannot cope with protecting leads under pressure when teams throw everything they have at us. 

I'm sick and tired of the 'heroic' line from club PR. Pats on the back because little Rovers went to mighty Leeds and almost got a result but just couldn't in the end.

Yesterday should never happen. I can forgive the equalizer as frustrating and predictable as it was but to concede twice in the final 3 minutes is outrageous. This is a serious issue that needs urgently addressing and I see little to no evidence that this is being dealt with. 

Simply cannot throw wins away like we have against Birmingham and Leeds recently,

[blueboy3333]

46 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

and our opinion of players/manager/staff shouldn’t be based on one or two games against the best teams in this league.

Oh Donald! Since when were Wigan and PNE the best teams in the league?

[Stuart]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

My own personal answer to the thread topic;

Our expectations need to change, and our opinion of players/manager/staff shouldn’t be based on one or two games against the best teams in this league.

The time for big decisions is a long way off.

One or two games? His record with Rovers in the Championship is mediocre, at best.

(After yesterday that’s 7 losses)

53 points from 117

Win % 30.7 (Less than WDDDLL)

He had a far better record in a League One simply because he had the best players in the division.

Our expectations need to change? So we should just adapt to being Championship relegation battlers ever season while we have extremely wealthy owners willing to spend £7m on one player?

The time for big decisions is a long way off? So you don’t think that changing the coaching staff is a big decision then because that would be the first place I’d look.

Our next 6 games are a mixed bag starting with the next two written off in terms of any culpability for Mowbray. Going off league position - which is what people seem to determine is all important in determining if a game is winnable or not, the ‘right thinkers’ would probably target the following points...

Sheff Utd (A) - 0 points

West Brom (H) - 0 points

Millwall (A) - 3 points

Ipswich (H) - 3 points

Hull (H) - 1 point

Brentford (A) - 1 point

By the time we face Bristol City at Ewood on 9th February...

Best case...

We might have 39 points from 30 games which puts us on course to around 60 points.

Worst case...

Going from four defeats to back to back wins might even be a stretch. We could only manager 3 or 4 points from that four game run. That would mean 34 or 35 points and looking at 52 points.

Of course there is no exact science but momentum is everything in football. Having had the promotion bounce, and £10m to spend, we should have been much further up the table, sniffing around the play-off places and a 7th or 8th place finish giving us some impetus and something to build on from next season.

Right now the Summer looks like needing a complete rebuild but with certain players getting new contracts I expect a similar strategy to this Sumer and next season to be the same as this one.

Welcome to Stability: Part 2

Edited December 27, 2018 by Stuart

[JBiz]

43 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Agreed we shouldn’t be looking to make any rash decisions - but it’s not one or two games Biz and you know it’s not. One win in eight and we’re freefalling down the league.

This thread asked “where do we go from here” directly after the Leeds game, which suggests it’s a question in reaction to a game.

If you or the thread is asking me “are we doing well enough this season so far”, the answer is overall is yes but could be better. As I said, expectations need reigning in.

@Stuart

See above.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

2 minutes ago, Stuart said:

One or two games? His record with Rovers in the Championship is mediocre, at best.

(After yesterday that’s 7 losses)

53 points from 117

Win % 30.7 (Less than WDDDLL)

He had a far better record in a League One simply because he had the best players in the division.

Our expectations need to change? So we should just adapt to being Championship relegation battlers ever season while we have extremely wealthy owners willing to spend £7m on one player?

The time for big decisions is a long way off? So you don’t think that changing the coaching staff is a big decision then because that would be the first place I’d look.

Our next 6 games are a mixed bag starting with the next two written off in terms of any culpability for Mowbray. Going off league position - which is what people seem to determine is all important in determining if a game is winnable or not, the ‘right thinkers’ would probably target the following points...

Sheff Utd (A) - 0 points

West Brom (H) - 0 points

Millwall (A) - 3 points

Ipswich (H) - 3 points

Hull (H) - 1 point

Brentford (A) - 1 point

By the time we face Bristol City at Ewood on 9th February...

Best case...

We might have 39 points from 30 games which puts us on course to around 60 points.

Worst case...

Going from four defeats to back to back wins might even be a stretch. We could only manager 3 or 4 points from that four game run. That would mean 34 or 35 points and looking at 52 points.

Of course there is no exact science but momentum is everything in football. Having had the promotion bounce, and £10m to spend, we should have been much further up the table, sniffing around the play-off places and a 7th or 8th place finish giving us some impetus and something to build on from next season.

Right now the Summer looks like needing a complete rebuild but with certain players getting new contracts I expect a similar strategy to this Sumer and next season to be the same as this one.

Welcome to Stability: Part 2

You're absolving V8nkys from any culpability for the situation we find ourselves in with this point which is f8cking shocking. 

Am I supposed to be grateful they are willing to spend £7m on one player and direct all my anger at Mowbray?

[ben_the_beast]

Someone shot me down for mentioning this the other day. I think the whole set up is to cushy. Team spirit and everyone liking each other too much. The whole squad is about banter and liking each other. 

Also these A-Z's the club keeps releasing. In their spare time it seems all our players go home and play their xbox's.  The effect that has on your quality of rest and most importantly an ability to get a good night's sleep is awful. I found the below article quite an interesting read. You can bet your bottom dollar the club aren't monitoring these kind of things.

Fully agree with all other points on here I just wasn't sure where to put this as it doesn't seem to merit it's own topic. 

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/why-sleep-footballs-most-staggering-performance-enhancer-nobodys-talking-about?fbclid=IwAR2DbAvhyQbiB_ozuAQfARdjMkN3LzWHeamuXCJGpTg_bOBhzZP_wrDOaxo

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, Stuart said:

 

Our expectations need to change? So we should just adapt to being Championship relegation battlers ever season while we have extremely wealthy owners willing to spend £7m on one player?

The time for big decisions is a long way off? So you don’t think that changing the coaching staff is a big decision then because that would be the first place I’d look.

 

Edited a lot of assumption out.

One player signed for a decent fee and thus we should expect to be play offs, yet you think we need a total rebuild... those expectations don’t make sense.

Changing the manager changes the entire philosophy of the club. It’s a huge decision. If we hired someone else, if 12 months down the line we are in the same position, you’d say the same again. It’ll never dawn on you the reason why.

Call it stability 2. I call it Memory loss 2.

[K-Hod]

4 minutes ago, Biz said:

This thread asked “where do we go from here” directly after the Leeds game, which suggests it’s a question in reaction to a game.

If you or the thread is asking me “are we doing well enough this season so far”, the answer is overall is yes but could be better. As I said, expectations need reigning in.

@Stuart

See above.

As far I can see, expectations are for us to stop shipping so many late goals, then we absolutely don’t need to rein those expectations in whatsoever.

[blueboy3333]

3 minutes ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

You're absolving V8nkys from any culpability for the situation we find ourselves in with this point which is f8cking shocking. 

Am I supposed to be grateful they are willing to spend £7m on one player and direct all my anger at Mowbray?

Venky's don't do the defending in the last 20 minutes and having £7m to spend in a 19 year old sub is surely a good thing for Mowbray?

[JBiz]

Just now, K-Hod said:

As far I can see, expectations are for us to stop shipping so many late goals, then we absolutely don’t need to rein those expectations in whatsoever.

You aren’t that stupid mate, you know very well that changing manager is the point. 

[DE.]

Can somebody explain to me what Mowbray's philosophy actually is? Team spirit? Not really a philosophy so much as just creating a positive working environment, which is a prerequisite for any successful team.

In footballing terms I have no idea what his philosophy is. Buy strikers to play out wide and concede a lot of goals, ideally as late as possible? Not something we're going to want to persist with long term, is it? 

I think I have an idea of what he wants to achieve, but I see no evidence of it being close to fruition on the pitch and our transfer record, Dack aside, is pretty uninspiring. 

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Venky's don't do the defending in the last 20 minutes and having £7m to spend in a 19 year old sub is surely a good thing for Mowbray?

I'm not absolving Mowbray from blame for our failings, far from it, he needs to sort it out. However Stuart's point read like we've got wonderful owners who are willing to spend £7m on one player so this mess it Mowbray's fault, where in truth it's Venkys fault and their fault alone we are in the predicament we are in. 

[JBiz]

Just now, DE. said:

Can somebody explain to me what Mowbray's philosophy actually is? Team spirit? Not really a philosophy so much as just creating a positive working environment, which is a prerequisite for any successful team.

In footballing terms I have no idea what his philosophy is. Buy strikers to play out wide and concede a lot of goals, ideally as late as possible? Not something we're going to want to persist with long term, is it? 

I think I have an idea of what he wants to achieve, but I see no evidence of it being close to fruition on the pitch and our transfer record, Dack aside, is pretty uninspiring. 

Does it occur to you that to dropping so many points from winning positions, also requires the tactics/performance to get into a winning position?

[DE.]

Just now, Biz said:

Does it occur to you that to dropping so many points from winning positions, also requires the tactics/performance to get into a winning position?

Great, so we just need to work out how to get the game to end once we get ourselves into the lead?

[JBiz]

Just now, DE. said:

Great, so we just need to work out how to get the game to end once we get ourselves into the lead?

No, it’s called seeing games out. I personally  don’t think worrying about a young team developing the experience and confidence to manage those situations is as bad as the most probable alternatives at this point.

 

[Ewood Ace]

4 minutes ago, Biz said:

Does it occur to you that to dropping so many points from winning positions, also requires the tactics/performance to get into a winning position?

The game lasts for 90+ minutes though and we don't have the bottle or the fitness levels to see it out for 90 minutes.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Ewood Ace

[JBiz]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

The game lasts for 90+ minutes though and we don't have the bottle or the fitness to see it out for 90 minutes.

I don’t think it’s fitness, but definitley on bottle; Experience, nasty streak, calmness, mental toughness, I agree with.

I think that’s down to the youth of our first team more than tactics/approach. A nasty and experienced, preferably massive and fast (don’t ask much...) centre half in January would I would “go next”

[blueboy3333]

7 minutes ago, Biz said:

Does it occur to you that to dropping so many points from winning positions, also requires the tactics/performance to get into a winning position?

[DE.]

Just now, Biz said:

No, it’s called seeing games out. I personally  don’t think worrying about a young team developing the experience and confidence to manage those situations is as bad as the most probable alternatives at this point.

The team isn't that young. Mulgrew, Williams, Smallwood, Evans, Graham - all regulars with a ton of experience. Where's the leadership from these lads when the pressure is on? Dack is 25 in four days so he's hardly a youngster either. 

As I said yesterday, too many of the wrong personality types in the team right now. Not enough leaders. The panic and fear across the team towards the end of matches is embarrassing to watch. If you think the players will just grow out of that I'm afraid you're sadly mistaken. Leadership is an inherent trait and we don't have anywhere close to enough of it in the team at present.