What Needs To Change and Where Do We Go From Here?

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 hours ago, Stuart said:

There is definitely a balance. You need a captain who will be your voice on the pitch but it is definitely your message that he is giving out.

If Mowbray is suggesting that he isn’t really involved with the team on match days then that’s not delegating it’s passing the buck.

He never said he isn't involved with the team on match days. I think not entering the changing room line was metaphorical, as in he let's them sort out some stuff themselves. I mean none of us know really. 

[DE.]

2 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Now we have played everyone, the biggest thing to strike me is how far off the top 6 our squad is in technique. Leeds yesterday, Sheffield Utd, Derby, Norwich and West Brom all passed us off the park. How many of our players would get into their teams? Dack, at a push.

BUT, we have taken 6 points off the top 6 and it should’ve been 11, which suggests to me we are playing to existing strengths. But I don’t think those strengths are enough - every game is a slog, which means we tire more and make more mistakes.

The next two windows will say a lot about how far we can go. Mowbray’s Achilles heel is how little his last window took us forward.

Pretty much agree with this. We lack quality in key areas and we're seeing the limits of where hard work and team spirit will get us. I don't personally think Mowbray is fully playing to the strengths of the team - he has this "inside forwards" vision that the current team just can't adapt to at this point in time - but overall we're roughly in the position most would have hoped for/predicted at the start of the season. What's frustrating is that we have seen how many teams have vulnerabilities and we haven't been able to capitalise on that, but at the same time we fall into the same category of a team with some potential which also has some serious flaws. Namely game management, defending leads and maintaining a strong performance for the entire match. We generally have one good half and one bad half, which has been a defining feature of Mowbray's time at the club thus far. 

The summer transfer window was definitely not good enough in terms of helping us progress for the first half of the season. Other than Reed none of our signings have made any kind of noticeable impact which is disappointing. Some may come good later (Brereton, Davenport, Rothwell) but that needs to be supplemented by signings who give us a boost in the here and now. We're still especially weak in terms of alternatives at centre forward and across the entirety of the defence. Still a lot of work to be done there. 

 

[47er]

The transfer window was hailed a s a piece of master-craft on here at the time."Near perfect" was one comment I remember!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, 47er said:

The transfer window was hailed a s a piece of master-craft on here at the time."Near perfect" was one comment I remember!

I got a bit of grief for suggesting that we seemed to be building a team of midfield players at the expense of the other ends of the team.

[Mercer]

18 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I got a bit of grief for suggesting that we seemed to be building a team of midfield players at the expense of the other ends of the team.

Which is even more laughable as we haven't got a feckin midfield!

Edited December 27, 2018 by Mercer

[Mercer]

3 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Now we have played everyone, the biggest thing to strike me is how far off the top 6 our squad is in technique. Leeds yesterday, Sheffield Utd, Derby, Norwich and West Brom all passed us off the park. How many of our players would get into their teams? Dack, at a push.

Sums up the paucity of our squad nicely.

Mowbray doesn't seem to see it.  IMV, some £10million has been wasted on Brereton and Armstrong, neither of whom are good enough to start regularly in our team.

We could have brought in 4 or 5 very decent players for that.

[rossyrover]

9 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Jesus, out of all our defenders and you're having a go at Charlie????? he is surrounded by feckin shyte Williams,  Lenihan,  Smallwood et al.....

 

Joke having a go at mulgrew 

I agree, with Lenihan who is really a midfielder as your defensive partner no wonder Charlie is struggling its been obvious all season we need a proper championship centre half to play with Mulgrew as well as as striker who can hold the ball up. 

[roverandout]

21 hours ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Who though? We'd all love a championship Klopp or Pep type, but I'm not sure I can think of a dynamic manager like that. 

Plenty of foreign managers who would jump at the chance. Theres always a diamond out there somewhere. 

[philipl]

Just now, roverandout said:

Plenty of foreign managers who would jump at the chance. Theres always a diamond out there somewhere. 

And plenty of dross

[USABlue]

13 hours ago, DE. said:

Pretty much agree with this. We lack quality in key areas and we're seeing the limits of where hard work and team spirit will get us. I don't personally think Mowbray is fully playing to the strengths of the team - he has this "inside forwards" vision that the current team just can't adapt to at this point in time - but overall we're roughly in the position most would have hoped for/predicted at the start of the season. What's frustrating is that we have seen how many teams have vulnerabilities and we haven't been able to capitalise on that, but at the same time we fall into the same category of a team with some potential which also has some serious flaws. Namely game management, defending leads and maintaining a strong performance for the entire match. We generally have one good half and one bad half, which has been a defining feature of Mowbray's time at the club thus far. 

The summer transfer window was definitely not good enough in terms of helping us progress for the first half of the season. Other than Reed none of our signings have made any kind of noticeable impact which is disappointing. Some may come good later (Brereton, Davenport, Rothwell) but that needs to be supplemented by signings who give us a boost in the here and now. We're still especially weak in terms of alternatives at centre forward and across the entirety of the defence. Still a lot of work to be done there. 

 

He can't be can he, not if he is playing the players HE signed out of their favored position.

[DE.]

Just now, USABlue said:

He can't be can he, not if he is playing the players HE signed out of their favored position.

As far as the strikers go (Armstrong, Brereton, etc), he probably doesn't see it as playing them out of position. If he's playing them as inside forwards he'd still see it as a striking position. The problem is that they almost always end up drifting wide and essentially become wide midfielders or wingers who are cutting inside, which is not the same as being an inside forward. What's concerning is that this was basically the case for the entirety of last season and all of this season, yet there has been absolutely no improvement. Our "inside forwards" are still no closer to adapting to their roles than they were at the beginning of the 17/18 season when we had the likes of Antonsson toiling in the same role. 

[USABlue]

12 hours ago, Mercer said:

Sums up the paucity of our squad nicely.

Mowbray doesn't seem to see it.  IMV, some £10million has been wasted on Brereton and Armstrong, neither of whom are good enough to start regularly in our team.

We could have brought in 4 or 5 very decent players for that.

Which 4 or 5 did you have in mind?

[USABlue]

2 minutes ago, DE. said:

As far as the strikers go (Armstrong, Brereton, etc), he probably doesn't see it as playing them out of position. If he's playing them as inside forwards he'd still see it as a striking position. The problem is that they almost always end up drifting wide and essentially become wide midfielders or wingers who are cutting inside, which is not the same as being an inside forward. What's concerning is that this was basically the case for the entirety of last season and all of this season, yet there has been absolutely no improvement. Our "inside forwards" are still no closer to adapting to their roles than they were at the beginning of the 17/18 season when we had the likes of Antonsson toiling in the same role. 

I sorta worded it fron the players view point.  I think both thise players have a preference for playing centrally.  I seem to remember stories od AA not wanting to return to Notlob cos they played him wide.  As for Brereton it's looking mire and.more to me like his best position would be still at Forest.

[Norbert Rassragr]

4 hours ago, roverandout said:

Plenty of foreign managers who would jump at the chance. Theres always a diamond out there somewhere. 

Names please. There will be someone really good, but unless we know who they are it is empty talk. I would want this mystery person thoroughly scrutinised before we sack Mowbray, and not just appointed because we now hate Tony. Or Judian Ali may finally become a reality!

[Exiled in Toronto]

Well, I think we’ll lose tomorrow and most likely to West Brom as well so four defeats in a row will sharpen the pitchforks even further. We’re in a bad run but did anyone seriously expect us never to have one?

I was reading about our 91/92 promotion season a few days ago. I had forgotten that our infamous six defeats in a row actually came in the middle of a run of 13 games from which we amassed a massive 7 points. That was pretty much the last third of the season up the Swanee. Thank God this site didn’t exist back then!

[Stuart]

14 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Well, I think we’ll lose tomorrow and most likely to West Brom as well so four defeats in a row will sharpen the pitchforks even further. We’re in a bad run but did anyone seriously expect us never to have one?

I was reading about our 91/92 promotion season a few days ago. I had forgotten that our infamous six defeats in a row actually came in the middle of a run of 13 games from which we amassed a massive 7 points. That was pretty much the last third of the season up the Swanee. Thank God this site didn’t exist back then!

The performance is everything though. Lose both games three or four -0 and yes there will be serious criticism.

What we need to do though is play the team we face on the grass and not the one on pixels.

[roversfan99]

23 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Well, I think we’ll lose tomorrow and most likely to West Brom as well so four defeats in a row will sharpen the pitchforks even further. We’re in a bad run but did anyone seriously expect us never to have one?

I was reading about our 91/92 promotion season a few days ago. I had forgotten that our infamous six defeats in a row actually came in the middle of a run of 13 games from which we amassed a massive 7 points. That was pretty much the last third of the season up the Swanee. Thank God this site didn’t exist back then!

Im not really sure what the point you are making is? Yes poor runs are inevitable at some point but of course they will attract criticism. Do you think they shouldnt? If you was a City fan would you currently totally ignore any mistakes they have made lately because"did anyone seriously expect them to not have a bad run of form?!"

[Tom Stinny]

The problem with this inside forward stuff is it's a lot more technical and difficult to pull off. There's a reason teams like Barcelona, Real Madrid and the likes play it. To do it well you need to be in that top drawer of player.

 

2 decent wingers. A centre half and a decent target man should have been brought in and for 10 million pounds it was more than doable. The manager tries to play a structured style without the players specialised in doing so.

 

It isn't rocket science personally.

[USABlue]

I keep seeing 10 million should have been better utilised, as a Rovers fan I can't disagree with that.  A centre half, wingers and a good striker or two.  I have asked several times, who are these players.  Not being difficult I just have a real interest and perhaps spark some genuine debate with people's opinions.

Edited December 29, 2018 by USABlue

[47er]

12 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Well, I think we’ll lose tomorrow and most likely to West Brom as well so four defeats in a row will sharpen the pitchforks even further. We’re in a bad run but did anyone seriously expect us never to have one?

I was reading about our 91/92 promotion season a few days ago. I had forgotten that our infamous six defeats in a row actually came in the middle of a run of 13 games from which we amassed a massive 7 points. That was pretty much the last third of the season up the Swanee. Thank God this site didn’t exist back then!

If the site had been around in 1991-2 how would you expect most fans to have reacted? Meltdown wouldn't have been unreasonable when we went from certainties to finish in top 2 to unlikely to be in the play-offs within a few weeks.

In fact, as I remember, the fans were stoic and proud in the face of adversity, and, as we all know, their faith was fully rewarded.

They trusted the owner, they knew they had one of the best managers in the world.

Bit different now!

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

All these players we need to strengthen? 

Having already spunked the best part of 10 Million on a young lad who isnt ready according to our Manager and an underperforming Geordie reject are we so confident monies will be available...I'm thinking we may well have to 'wee with the Willy we have'.

I just also have the feeling matters are still not what they should be in the dressing room,possible unrest.

[JBiz]

23 minutes ago, USABlue said:

I keep seeing 10 million should have been better utilised, as a Rovers fan I can't disagree with that.  A centre half, wingers and a good striker or two.  I have asked several times, who are these players.  Not being difficult I just have a real interest and perhaps spark some genuine debate with poeples opinions.

Important element and question to consider when looking at what 10m can achieve - how much would we sell our best players for? 

Would anyone be happy if we sold Dack and Lenihan for less than 10m each? I wouldn’t.

I also wouldn’t be impressed if we sold Nyambe or Raya for less than 7/8m

 

[Exiled in Toronto]

18 minutes ago, 47er said:

If the site had been around in 1991-2 how would you expect most fans to have reacted? Meltdown wouldn't have been unreasonable when we went from certainties to finish in top 2 to unlikely to be in the play-offs within a few weeks.

In fact, as I remember, the fans were stoic and proud in the face of adversity, and, as we all know, their faith was fully rewarded.

They trusted the owner, they knew they had one of the best managers in the world.

Bit different now!

I think at the time we mostly assumed it was just a dream and we’d wake up still in the 2nd Div. More a grim resignation we’d never have glory days again. It certainly felt that way on the Port Vale terraces when we meekly surrendered 2-0 without once looking like scoring. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

19 minutes ago, Biz said:

Important element and question to consider when looking at what 10m can achieve - how much would we sell our best players for? 

Would anyone be happy if we sold Dack and Lenihan for less than 10m each? I wouldn’t.

I also wouldn’t be impressed if we sold Nyambe or Raya for less than 7/8m

 

The Lenihan of this season won't go for anything like that sort of money, indeed I'd argue his value hasn't gone up since Sheff Utd were interested in him 18 months ago.

I think both Raya and Nyambe will go on to have good careers at a decent level in the future but I wouldn't be paying that sort of money for them at this moment in time.

[Doug]

18 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I think at the time we mostly assumed it was just a dream and we’d wake up still in the 2nd Div. More a grim resignation we’d never have glory days again. It certainly felt that way on the Port Vale terraces when we meekly surrendered 2-0 without once looking like scoring. 

That was a poor night!! 

Didn't Shearer (Duncan) head one over the bar right in front of us when it looked easier to score?  (my memory isn't what it was).