Sheffield United vs Blackburn Rovers: 29th December 2018

[USABlue]

10 hours ago, Stuart said:

Want to try again? Glad to see where your priorities lie though.

I was hoping for far better today, weren’t you?

Yes, and it was till Smallwood lost his mind.  You can't know what might have happened had we kept 11 on.  My priorities? Please enlighten me.

[AllRoverAsia]

Tony's favourite Son is innocent! Referee to blame!

Must be true, open and honest said so:

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2018/december/mowbray-we-threw-it-away/

I wonder if we will appeal the red card?

No mention of how the subs he made impacted on the game.

[arbitro]

9 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Tony's favourite Son is innocent! Referee to blame!

Must be true, open and honest said so:

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2018/december/mowbray-we-threw-it-away/

I wonder if we will appeal the red card?

No mention of how the subs he made impacted on the game.

I thought the referee was decent and out of the two red cards I thought Basham's was really harsh. I don't get where Mowbray is coming from here, as soon as Smallwood's challenge went in I called a red card. He was high, late and out of control. His post match interviews are beginning to smack of desperation.

I don't think there will be an appeal despite Mowbray trying to exonerate Smallwood.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Tony's favourite Son is innocent! Referee to blame!

Must be true, open and honest said so:

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2018/december/mowbray-we-threw-it-away/

I wonder if we will appeal the red card?

No mention of how the subs he made impacted on the game.

I felt Smallwood was a little unfortunate, in real time it was a 50-50 challenge, the ball was there to be won, his body wasn't off the ground, I'm not sure he was overly reckless and he  was only a split second away from getting to the ball first. 20 years ago that may not have even warranted a yellow.

That said, in today's climate I don't think there'd be any mileage whatsoever in appealing it, and more to the point as others have said at 11 v 10 there's absolutely no need to go diving in and give the referee a decision to make. I think TM's comments are merely an attempt to deflect a bit of attention away from himself and the players after another embarrassing collapse.

I don't agree with TM  either that at 11 v 10 there was only one winner. For some inexplicable reason our intensity levels dropped off completely as soon as they went down to ten. The same thing happened at Boro, we started fannying about and passing the ball sideways and backwards almost as if we were the ones trying to hold out for a point when in both cases we should have been going for the jugular. Very strange.

Edited December 30, 2018 by RevidgeBlue

[philipl]

The more I think about it the more obvious the reaction to Sheff U going down to ten men should have been an immediate substitution replacing Smallwood with Dack and going from 4-1-4-1 to 4-4-1-1. 

We no longer needed Smallwood to stop the over lapping centre half so his role had become superfluous.

[davulsukur]

10 hours ago, Stuart said:

This is where I have been frustrated with Mowbray for some time. He doesn’t put any faith in certain players. Travis and Rothwell being two major examples. It would be a huge boost to others, like Butterworth, Mols, even Nuttall if they could see someone like Trav make it.

Also, I was wrong earlier about Travis. I didn’t think he would play again. Very glad that he has but I fear he will still end up on loan. Hope not because he could become a good player for the first team and a fan favourite.

Shop window game I fear. Not played for ages then starts right before the window. Gives everyone a reminder of his talents to get the loan deals lined up. 

[cesus]

7 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

The last 3 games I've attended were at Preston, Wigan and Sheffield Utd. I've seen us concede 10 goals in those 3 games and the reaction by the players to each goal has been the same - look down at your boots and shrug your shoulders.

Not once have I seen cross words between players, encouragement for each other, pointing fingers, no discussion about what went wrong, no communication of any sort. Just  no fight at all in this team. I think they have inherited Mowbray's 'this is where we are' attitude. The team is spineless and leaderless.

I think we showed in the first hour today that there is ability in the side - Palmer was good, Reed and Travis both busy. Rothwell seems to be more bluster than end product and that dive was a disgrace. I didn't see any real threat from Brereton at all I'm afraid.

But the overriding  worry I have is that this team is beginning to accept these heavy defeats as par for the course. The attitude in the last few weeks has been as bad as anything since we were relegated from the Premiership.  I don't see any confidence returning to this side without a big change in personnel or a change of manager.

I don't think we will go down but we can't plod along like this into next season. 

I have to admit of late I've seen two instances when I would expect team mates to "step in", yesterday Smallwood was surrounded by Sheff Utd players after his challenge and I would expect even for mind game purposes our players to front them up and say "we are up for this fight" it didn't happen and the rest of the game certainly proved we didn't fancy the fight! Also when Birmingham scored their penalty, Raya did some messing around with the ball and he was barged by their lads and not one of ours backed him up. Little battles and mind games are not being contested which I find hard to swallow if I'm being honest.

Edited December 30, 2018 by cesus

[Oldgregg86]

I don't know how anyone can argue with that red. He flew in and went through sharp and Bennett. No argument to be had. Stupid , unnecessary tackle and red

[tomphil]

Shades of the GB type familiarity comfort zone creeping into the mentality I fear, players treated like all conquering heroes for getting promotion and all lathered with shiny new contracts as well as the manager.  Shoulder shrugs after poor defeats and the ah well we are were we are we've only just come up so what do you expect attitude. it's a dangerous mix people are beginning to hide behind these excuses and each other now.

We aren't at the stability zone yet they have to pull together. kick bite and scratch their way to a safe finish this season but that was always going to be the case so why wasn't it drummed into them ?  Mowbray too busy trying to downplay expectations when the team threatened to surprise everyone with a run at the top 8 instead of just encouraging them and letting them off the least to go for it, we aren't good enough for that but it would leave them in a decent position points wise. In football when your team has some spark about it you fan the flames not bring out the bloody fire blankets.

Wrong mentality this season i'm afraid and now it's coming back to bite us.

[Stuart]

3 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

I don't know how anyone can argue with that red. He flew in and went through sharp and Bennett. No argument to be had. Stupid , unnecessary tackle and red

A few factors for me. It was never in a million years a straight red card.

Bennett going in for the same ball along with the Sheff Utd player made it look worse.

The reaction of player and his team mates immediately surrounding the referee put the ref under pressure.

Having already shown he was card happy the ref gave Smallwood a massive incentive not to go diving in. Very silly but I’ll say it again, that was not a red card challenge.

In fact, it’s about time there was an overhaul of the archaic red and yellow card system. Refereeing errors are far more common now and their game-changing decisions are now very costly - including financially.

It’s going to be interesting to see how we play without him as he is fast becoming a tackling Jason Lowe in this division: first name on the manager’s team sheet despite not having what it takes.

[G Somerset Rover]

1 hour ago, cesus said:

I have to admit of late I've seen two instances when I would expect team mates to "step in", yesterday Smallwood was surrounded by Sheff Utd players after his challenge and I would expect even for mind game purposes our players to front them up and say "we are up for this fight" it didn't happen and the rest of the game certainly proved we didn't fancy the fight! Also when Birmingham scored their penalty, Raya did some messing around with the ball and he was barged by their lads and not one of ours backed him up. Little battles and mind games are not being contested which I find hard to swallow if I'm being honest.

Yep completely agree. Mentioned it a few times - absolutely nobody is showing leadership on that pitch so the buck must stop with Mowbray and Mulgrew. Mowbray for not bringing any of the correct types in - just head nodders - and Mulgrew for not showing anything resembling captain material other than to bang a few free kicks in. Get some hard bastard in January and give him the armband. That will ruffle a few feathers.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

The game in this country is fast becoming a tackle free zone. I was surprised to see foreign referees in the recent World Cup letting a lot more go. How many Red Cards were there in a competition of such intensity ? This isn't for one minute excusing Smallwood diving in yesterday. When you have an advantage over the opposition you do your level best to maintain it.

The lack of spirit and determination in adversity has been a problem since the Kean days. Last season only papered over the cracks. We didn't need to put our bodies on the line very often, our superior ability usually got us over the line. At the moment we have a massive problem with morale. We look like a team that make excuses to each other and feel sorry for our selves when things go wrong. Team spirit doesn't consist solely of going out on the piss with each other and group selfies !  In my opinion this attitude comes from the lack of interest right at the top. At most Clubs the Chairman would have told Mowbray after this latest debacle - " We need to have a talk about this Tony, I'll see you in my office on Monday morning ".

I used to know the Chairman of my Rugby League club pretty well and he defined his duties as " Moving heaven and earth so the buggers don't have an excuse for losing ". Best kit, best physio, best coach for long journeys, good hotel for over night stays etc.

At Rovers nothing will happen tomorrow morning and everything will carry on as thought this Christmas never happened. This policy of signing 19 year old Yoof is all well and good but they won't get us out of this mess. We need some experienced guys who aren't used to losing without a fight and we desperately need some leaders on the field. 

Edited December 30, 2018 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Ewood Ace]

7 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

Front 6 for the next game has to be

------Reed----Travis----

Palmer--Dack--Rothwell

-----------Graham---------

I can't see Palmer being here much longer after West Brom. A shame as with a run of games I think there is a good player there, I fully expect him to go on loan to another Championship club under a different manager and excel.

[JHRover]

Chelsea will recall Palmer, there's no point in leaving him here given the amount of time he's spent on the pitch, and will send him somewhere like Hull or Ipswich where he will play every week.

[AAK]

9 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

The last 3 games I've attended were at Preston, Wigan and Sheffield Utd. I've seen us concede 10 goals in those 3 games and the reaction by the players to each goal has been the same - look down at your boots and shrug your shoulders.

Not once have I seen cross words between players, encouragement for each other, pointing fingers, no discussion about what went wrong, no communication of any sort. Just  no fight at all in this team. I think they have inherited Mowbray's 'this is where we are' attitude. The team is spineless and leaderless.

I think we showed in the first hour today that there is ability in the side - Palmer was good, Reed and Travis both busy. Rothwell seems to be more bluster than end product and that dive was a disgrace. I didn't see any real threat from Brereton at all I'm afraid.

But the overriding  worry I have is that this team is beginning to accept these heavy defeats as par for the course. The attitude in the last few weeks has been as bad as anything since we were relegated from the Premiership.  I don't see any confidence returning to this side without a big change in personnel or a change of manager.

I don't think we will go down but we can't plod along like this into next season. 

Course they accept the defeats, what do we expect when the manager says publicly "this is where we are" and "in this league we will be handed some big defeats" and "you have to take losses in this league" - if he's accepting it, so will the players.

[AllRoverAsia]

4 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I felt Smallwood was a little unfortunate, in real time it was a 50-50 challenge, the ball was there to be won, his body wasn't off the ground, I'm not sure he was overly reckless and he  was only a split second away from getting to the ball first. 20 years ago that may not have even warranted a yellow.

That said, in today's climate I don't think there'd be any mileage whatsoever in appealing it, and more to the point as others have said at 11 v 10 there's absolutely no need to go diving in and give the referee a decision to make. I think TM's comments are merely an attempt to deflect a bit of attention away from himself and the players after another embarrassing collapse.

I don't agree with TM  either that at 11 v 10 there was only one winner. For some inexplicable reason our intensity levels dropped off completely as soon as they went down to ten. The same thing happened at Boro, we started fannying about and passing the ball sideways and backwards almost as if we were the ones trying to hold out for a point when in both cases we should have been going for the jugular. Very strange.

Smallwood was already on thin ice with the Ref having been spoken to for verbals with the Ref, I think CM was called over to log it.

I certainly agree that in times before the challenge would have been a non event but now going to ground pre tackle seems to be a punishable event, deemed out of control.

Also agree that we took a backward step as soon as the red for SU occured. I could not understand why and assumed it was tactical and came from the bench. Brereton off but no Graham made me wonder on the sanity of our manager.

TM basically conceded the field to SU and we customarilly collapse as soon as Sharp scored his first. Our 'bottle' gone.

Edited December 30, 2018 by AllRoverAsia

[K-Hod]

I’ve just seen the incident with Smallwood and it looked like Smallwood did more damage to Bennett than anyone else....

Either way, he gave the ref a decision to make with the challenge and it was little surprise that it handed Sheffield United the initiative after....

[AllRoverAsia]

4 hours ago, arbitro said:

I thought the referee was decent and out of the two red cards I thought Basham's was really harsh. I don't get where Mowbray is coming from here, as soon as Smallwood's challenge went in I called a red card. He was high, late and out of control. His post match interviews are beginning to smack of desperation.

I don't think there will be an appeal despite Mowbray trying to exonerate Smallwood.

The second yellow was for deliberate handball and on replay the SU player does move his arm towards the balls flight. Ref did well to spot it.

[tomphil]

Like the Boro match the game was there for the taking when they go down to 10, opposition expect an onslaught so make those adjustments whereas Mowbrays first instinct is we've a better chance now to nick the point so doesn't send in the heavy artilery.  we sit off therefore opposition can't believe the space they are being afforded and relax, we play into their hands and let them off the hook because the manager is terrified of risking losing to ten men it seems rather than applying the killer instinct.

[G Somerset Rover]

28 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Chelsea will recall Palmer, there's no point in leaving him here given the amount of time he's spent on the pitch, and will send him somewhere like Hull or Ipswich where he will play every week.

Mowbray’s handling of him has been poor IMO. I’m not defending his lackadaisical attitude at times but other managers have clearly got a big tune out of him at this level. Every time he’s put in half a decent performance he’s then been dropped. As you say, he’ll move to another club in the Championship and I’ll bet he’ll do a decent job. It leaves us with another gap to fill of a player who can make an impact at this level.

[JHRover]

Our game management is atrocious. Having played relatively well up until their red card that should have been the game changer that would see us press home our advantage by pressuring them for a long period and testing their keeper and defence. On the contrary as soon as they went down to ten and they sat back we had no idea what to do, how to break them down, or how to take advantage of numbers. We could have played all night at 11 v 10 and wouldn't have scored. I said to my mate when the red was issued that it probably wouldn't help us in any shape or form. I also said that the referee, having had grief from the home ends throughout, would embrace any opportunity to even the numbers up and get home fans back on side and so what do we do? Throw away our advantage by committing a stupid foul in a secure position. It really is amateurish.

Sadly a trait of this team though. Weak, clueless, no plan b, poor substitutes that never change games. Sheffield went down to 10 they made changed and adapted their approach. We resorted to our clueless passing around our defence with no idea whatsoever of how to try and break them down, whereas we are wide open and all over the place as soon as we go down to 10. No adaptability or flexibility. 

I've a confession to make. I walked out after their 2nd goal and went back to the car. Something I very rarely do and have always been against doing. But I was so thoroughly peed off and sick of watching it that I wasn't prepared to stay. As soon as their 1st went in I knew that the floodgates would open. It's a shambles. The manager has to sort it but our problems are so numerous and deep running I don't think it is as simple as making a few signings or changes to the line up. It runs deeper. It is mental and physical, ingrained in the psyche of the team and manager. It was there last season if you look back. Mowbray is showing no signs of turning it around, and needs to do so very quickly. We can't defend and can't create, we're dull to watch yet that isn't offset by being hard to break down or beat. I don't know what Mowbray really wants to do.

[Oldgregg86]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

A few factors for me. It was never in a million years a straight red card.

Bennett going in for the same ball along with the Sheff Utd player made it look worse.

The reaction of player and his team mates immediately surrounding the referee put the ref under pressure.

Having already shown he was card happy the ref gave Smallwood a massive incentive not to go diving in. Very silly but I’ll say it again, that was not a red card challenge.

In fact, it’s about time there was an overhaul of the archaic red and yellow card system. Refereeing errors are far more common now and their game-changing decisions are now very costly - including financially.

It’s going to be interesting to see how we play without him as he is fast becoming a tackling Jason Lowe in this division: first name on the manager’s team sheet despite not having what it takes.

I agree re the Jason Lowe comment and there does need to be an overhaul not just on the card system but what is actually deemed a foul. 

The amount of penalties I see in the premier league week in week out and then the panel defend the decision after a player " had contact" is ridiculous. Salah got another yesterday. It's becoming impossible to so much as lean into a player and something needs to change before the art of defending is lost.

The Smallwood tackle in the modern game, for me, was a red. The game I fell in love with it wasn't a foul. 

[AllRoverAsia]

7 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Like the Boro match the game was there for the taking when they go down to 10, opposition expect an onslaught so make those adjustments whereas Mowbrays first instinct is we've a better chance now to nick the point so doesn't send in the heavy artilery.  we sit off therefore opposition can't believe the space they are being afforded and relax, we play into their hands and let them off the hook because the manager is terrified of risking losing to ten men it seems rather than applying the killer instinct.

Well summed up, we are once more victims to Mowbray's inherent caution nay fear.

It has permeated throughout the squad who know well by now how the manager tactics after 62 minutes pan out.

Little wonder they become a confused disorganised rabble after looking quite composed and competent.

I am not calling for Mowbrays head, just asking if he can check his balls for spunk levels.

[Stuart]

13 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

The Smallwood tackle in the modern game, for me, was a red. The game I fell in love with it wasn't a foul. 

Love that phrasing. ??

(Still don’t agree it was a red - in isolation)

[tomphil]

6 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Well summed up, we are once more victims to Mowbray's inherent caution nay fear.

It has permeated throughout the squad who know well by now how the manager tactics after 62 minutes pan out.

Little wonder they become a confused disorganised rabble after looking quite composed and competent.

I am not calling for Mowbrays head, just asking if he can check his balls for spunk levels.

I think now is the time he needs to decide on his formation, best selection to suit it and just stick to it through hell or high water and tough it out. We aren't capable of shutting up shop in games nor do we press and play front foot often enough, we are just somewhere in the middle but this between the devil and the deep blue see routine is causing shades of I have been stopped from posting this by moderators. Coyle type confusion on the park every week now. TM and the team are better than that so as boring as it may be just get back to basics then try and improve his preferred style by getting in better players alongside those in key positions.

TM is one of those managers who actually gets better results when he sticks to what he knows and if I were him i'd be going to away games with 442 and looking to have two banks of four.  At home go the more staggered route of Dack and Graham but away get two strikers on closing down from the front.