Millwall away Saturday 12th Jan kick off 17.30

[roversfan99]

Was a horrendous game, them 2 late goals perhaps mask what was a terribly flawed gameplan, that played right into Millwalls hands with the ball forever in the air, Millwall werent very effective at what they do best although to be fair results are what matters but as Mowbray said we will need to massively improve going forward.

Lenihan and Rodwell were outstanding at centre back, Lenihan in particular was a man mountain and Rodwell added some composure.

Bell was absolutely rotten again, think we need to move him on, has to be high on our transfer agenda to bring in a left back. Nyambe was much better when he came on and has been very unlucky that Mowbrays insistence that Bennett must be shoehorned in somewhere even if there is no space in midfield has left him at full back where he cannot. That said, I have long since called for a vast improvement from Bennett in terms of goals and assists and he has come up with 2 superb assists in the last week so I would move him forward for the Newcastle.

Travis was more subdued that he has been for most of yesterday but still better than those around him and was superb for both goals. Has to be one of the first names on the team sheet at the moment. Evans, Reed and Conway I thought were all poor, and Dack was also probably wondering why he was even in the team with the tactics we adopted. One man who is beyond question for the occasional poor performance considering his statistics.

I thought Nuttall was ineffective but scored his second goal for us that was a total fluke, maybe its not a mere coincidence. Armstrong was superb when he came on and the difference.

[Butty]

Been saying for months Bell and Williams are both not good enough to play in this league. Bell has age on his side but for me he should not be starting games in this league and last night proved that. Conway may as well have a run out at left back to see how he gets on as he can’t be much worse. 

[jim mk2]

5 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Thoroughly enjoyed the trip yesterday and a good result always makes the journey back more enjoyable.  Very pleased that Nuttall took his chance to show that he is worth a place in the squad.  I thought he worked very hard and thoroughly deserved his reward at the end.  He did more in 90 minutes than we've seen from Brereton all season.   Another good performance from Travis in midfield who really looks the part.  I thought Rodwell looked very comfortable at the back and had that bit of composure on the ball when it was needed.

The manager got his selection and tactics spot on yesterday and putting Armstrong on to run at them late on caused them major problems.  It was great to see us scoring the goals late on to silence the Millwall crowd.  I must say that it is still an intimidating atmosphere for opposition players and match officials.

 

 

Funny how supporters see things so differently. To me, Nuttall is never going to be a player. I thought he was awful yesterday. His technique is so poor and he doesn't work that hard for me. I haven't seen alot of Brereton but I cannot believe at £7m Nuttall is so much better than him. 

That was my first win at Millwall in decades of going there. Somehow though it felt very flat as the performance and match as a whole was so dispiriting

[tomphil]

3 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Funny how supporters see things so differently. To me, Nuttall is never going to be a player. I thought he was awful yesterday. His technique is so poor and he doesn't work that hard for me. I haven't seen alot of Brereton but I cannot believe at £7m Nuttall is so much better than him. 

That was my first win at Millwall in decades of going there. Somehow though it felt very flat as the performance and match as a whole was so dispiriting

Has anyone ever told you about the champagne tastes on beer money Jim ? 

[jim mk2]

Nuttall or the game ? Both had the charm of flat beer.  Mowbray was right when he said after the game that he wouldn't like to have paid money to watch it. 

[tomphil]

Both to be fair, I think it was just one of those games that had to be toughed out, ok we could have been a bit more adventurous particularly on the right wing first half but we had a defensive winger on there obviously to stop them. They went out to stop us and the result up to a point looked all the world a nil nil grind but he did the right changes both tactically and personnel wise although some of it might have been forced and we turned into a win.

We've been on about grinding wins out for ages so yesterday we did it and I honestly reckon had we gone looking to play the tippy tappy powder puff stuff again yesterday we'd have lost comfortably. Maybe it's just an over reaction from me but I was happy to see us hand out some 'treatment' ourselves yesterday instead of wilting, never one for the purists but it was a typical Championship hard fought game

[47er]

3 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Funny how supporters see things so differently. To me, Nuttall is never going to be a player. I thought he was awful yesterday. His technique is so poor and he doesn't work that hard for me. I haven't seen alot of Brereton but I cannot believe at £7m Nuttall is so much better than him. 

That was my first win at Millwall in decades of going there. Somehow though it felt very flat as the performance and match as a whole was so dispiriting

I believe we've won 6 of the last nine games there! You've been unlucky. We're their bogey club! 

[jim mk2]

It was a hard fought game and one that we might have lost with a different approach and I'm delighted we won but it was hard to watch because of the lack of quality among certain players ........the failure of the likes of Nuttall and Bell (at times) to do the basics was striking.  Nuttall isn't a Championship player by any stretch of the imagination and Bell only border line. The rest of the Rovers team was solid if uninspiring. Millwall were just as awful but at least they did manage to test Raya a few times. 

[jim mk2]

Just now, 47er said:

I believe we've won 6 of the last nine games there! You've been unlucky. We're their bogey club! 

 I must be. But I have been going there on and off since 1971

[4000Holes]

Just now, tomphil said:

Both to be fair, I think it was just one of those games that had to be toughed out, ok we could have been a bit more adventurous particularly on the right wing first half but we had a defensive winger on there obviously to stop them. They went out to stop us and the result up to a point looked all the world a nil nil grind but he did the right changes both tactically and personnel wise although some of it might have been forced and we turned into a win.

We've been on about grinding wins out for ages so yesterday we did it and I honestly reckon had we gone looking to play the tippy tappy powder puff stuff again yesterday we'd have lost comfortably. Maybe it's just an over reaction from me but I was happy to see us hand out some 'treatment' ourselves yesterday instead of wilting, never one for the purists but it was a typical Championship hard fought game

Spot on.  The game was awful and that was how it was always going to be.  From the kick off we where defending balls that where coming down with snow on them and every credit to both Lenihan and Rodwell who never flinched all night.  Credit also to Nuttall who did his share of defending as well as running the lone striker.  Don’t know how much ground he covered but it must have been very significant.  

If we had played tippy tappy, we would have been murdered.  We actually played well under the circumstances and when we had mopped up the pressure and they had run out of steam by having to chase second balls from distance all evening, for once it was us who could pressure and score late on.

yes it was a dreadful game but our tactics where dead correct. 

[JHRover]

We haven't lost at Millwall since 1991 when they were at the Old Den. 

Thoroughly enjoyed the day yesterday, the game looked to be petering out to a drab 0-0 which on the balance of play would have been right but I was ecstatic to see us grab the 3 points and do to someone else what we've suffered from numerous times over this season and get a couple of late goals. Another big step nearer to the magical safety point and then we can relax.

I've not really got anything to say about the performance, possibly the worst football match I have ever watched but none of that matters one jot if we can get a couple of goals late on and the 3 points.

Could head home happy after recent away day disappointments and have a celebratory few cans on the train home.

I found some of Neil Harris' comments after the game to be interesting:

'I thought Blackburn were good. They looked very competitive, which was exactly what we expected. When they're bringing on players with the quality of Danny Graham and Adam Armstrong, with £7 million Ben Brereton left on the bench, there's a realisation that Blackburn are a big club at this level.'

You'd expect comments like that from an opposing manager who has just lost but it contradicts the narrative that some are keen to push that we're skint minnows destined to struggle in this league.

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, 4000Holes said:

Spot on.  The game was awful and that was how it was always going to be.  From the kick off we where defending balls that where coming down with snow on them and every credit to both Lenihan and Rodwell who never flinched all night.  Credit also to Nuttall who did his share of defending as well as running the lone striker.  Don’t know how much ground he covered but it must have been very significant.  

If we had played tippy tappy, we would have been murdered.  We actually played well under the circumstances and when we had mopped up the pressure and they had run out of steam by having to chase second balls from distance all evening, for once it was us who could pressure and score late on.

yes it was a dreadful game but our tactics where dead correct. 

It was one of those games where it looked like a lot of individual battles going on around the pitch and a few sub plots, the kind of thing that undoes Rovers at times so I was pleased they stood up to it and we ended up bullying them.  Not sure what people expect of Nuttall but to me that's the best I've seen him in a Roves shirt he did his bit besides poaching that important first goal. 

I think under Mowbray Rovers look to counter when they can and play football in patches and I think they tried that yesterday but they stopped us so we dug in. The strength of our bench along with it being used correctly was the telling factor for me just as it was for most of last season in league 1.  There are plenty teams where that can be applied against in the Championship that's why we should do ok, we are stronger than a lot of sides even n this league.

[4000Holes]

Just now, tomphil said:

It was one of those games where it looked like a lot of individual battles going on around the pitch and a few sub plots, the kind of thing that undoes Rovers at times so I was pleased they stood up to it and we ended up bullying them.  Not sure what people expect of Nuttall but to me that's the best I've seen him in a Roves shirt he did his bit besides poaching that important first goal. 

I think under Mowbray Rovers look to counter when they can and play football in patches and I think they tried that yesterday but they stopped us so we dug in. The strength of our bench along with it being used correctly was the telling factor for me just as it was for most of last season in league 1.  There are plenty teams where that can be applied against in the Championship that's why we should do ok, we are stronger than a lot of sides even n this league.

Exactly what I was trying to say but you put it far more eloquently than me.

[jim mk2]

Brereton must indeed by very poor if he's ahead of Nuttall. In addition to having a poor technique I lost count of the times he misjudged the bounce of a clearance, resulting in the ball always coming straight back at us. The lad is a good athlete and has a good physique but doesn't use it. He trains every day with Graham, who is a master at getting his body between the ball and the man, and holding off defenders. Why isn't Nuttall's learning to do the same ? 

[RevidgeBlue]

I think the criticism of Nuttall is very harsh. He looked like he had the capability to run in behind the Millwall defence all night long but on the whole no-one in midfield had the quality to provide him with the ammunition.

Also did well to be in where it mattered for the first goal pressurising the defenders into the mistake. Like Brereton at Sheffield, nothing earth shattering but did ok.

[Exiled in Toronto]

20 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Brereton must indeed by very poor if he's ahead of Nuttall. In addition to having a poor technique I lost count of the times he misjudged the bounce of a clearance, resulting in the ball always coming straight back at us. The lad is a good athlete and has a good physique but doesn't use it. He trains every day with Graham, who is a master at getting his body between the ball and the man, and holding off defenders. Why isn't Nuttall's learning to do the same ? 

I think he’s definitely learning something, closing down for one, which was absent last season when he played. Also, I’m not sure Danny Graham age 22 was as good as Danny Graham age 33 at using his body, which sounds like a skill you evolve into as you age and slow down, unless you are Maradona. Also worth bearing in mind Nuttall is more than two years older than BB.

[47er]

29 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I think he’s definitely learning something, closing down for one, which was absent last season when he played. Also, I’m not sure Danny Graham age 22 was as good as Danny Graham age 33 at using his body, which sounds like a skill you evolve into as you age and slow down, unless you are Maradona. Also worth bearing in mind Nuttall is more than two years older than BB.

But Brereton has all the experience! Every time I questioned the wisdom of buying an inexperienced youth for the astonishing price of  7M I was told he wasn't inexperienced at all and had played 47 games for Forest! In reality we had a more effective player all the time for free. Still the most bewildering transfer you could think of.

[Exiled in Toronto]

12 minutes ago, 47er said:

But Brereton has all the experience! Every time I questioned the wisdom of buying an inexperienced youth for the astonishing price of  7M I was told he wasn't inexperienced at all and had played 47 games for Forest! In reality we had a more effective player all the time for free. Still the most bewildering transfer you could think of.

He wouldn’t be the first to have been progressed too quickly. I’m convinced this transfer is a bet by our playboy owner and his chums.

[47er]

7 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

He wouldn’t be the first to have been progressed too quickly. I’m convinced this transfer is a bet by our playboy owner and his chums.

That's exactly what I think! A gamble. Shows we are still owned by buffoons however much we trust TM.

[jim mk2]

2 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I think he’s definitely learning something, closing down for one, which was absent last season when he played. Also, I’m not sure Danny Graham age 22 was as good as Danny Graham age 33 at using his body, which sounds like a skill you evolve into as you age and slow down, unless you are Maradona. Also worth bearing in mind Nuttall is more than two years older than BB.

Learning to play with to goal isn't easily. I was in my late 20s until I could do it properly ....but then I wasn't training and practising every day. There's also Dack at the club who does it well despite his height by sticking his bum into the defender and rolling the ball round them, like Dalglish used to. I'd love to have played with these people just once, to see and learn how they do it and then try it myself. I see the likes of Nuttall though and wonder - do they want to learn and do they train and practise hard enough to get better ?  Do they want to get better ? 

[Oldgregg86]

25 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Learning to play with to goal isn't easily. I was in my late 20s until I could do it properly ....but then I wasn't training and practising every day. There's also Dack at the club who does it well despite his height by sticking his bum into the defender and rolling the ball round them, like Dalglish used to. I'd love to have played with these people just once, to see and learn how they do it and then try it myself. I see the likes of Nuttall though and wonder - do they want to learn and do they train and practise hard enough to get better ?  Do they want to get better ? 

I often think this myself. As a player that suffered with nerves and confidence I knew I had the ability ( at the level I played at) and when on form was usually one of the best on the pitch, if doubt set in or confidence dropped I was a shell of the player i could be and that was only at school and town level, so I do have sympathy towards players in that regard. I do believe some players take time for reasons like this, albeit on a far grander scale. If you throw moving to a new area and settling in it must be difficult for some, if not most. That's why we can't be to hard and write players like brereton off at this stage. However there does come a point where you have to start improving and that's down to attitude in training. 

Ryan nyambe is a perfect example of what seemed a physically able player that lacked in confidence/attacking ability who has improved immensely to be the best rb at the club. Then you see other players especially at u23 level who, year after year, the same flaws to their game are ever present. With the time , coaches and technology available I find it staggering, how , if your attitude is right , you can't improve , sometimes on such basics skills that are lacking.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Oldgregg86

[Parsonblue]

21 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Learning to play with to goal isn't easily. I was in my late 20s until I could do it properly ....but then I wasn't training and practising every day. There's also Dack at the club who does it well despite his height by sticking his bum into the defender and rolling the ball round them, like Dalglish used to. I'd love to have played with these people just once, to see and learn how they do it and then try it myself. I see the likes of Nuttall though and wonder - do they want to learn and do they train and practise hard enough to get better ?  Do they want to get better ? 

In fairness, Nuttall has worked extremely hard over the past couple of months and has been excellent with the Under-23's.  He's far from the finished article but I thought he brought that improved work ethic to the first team on Saturday.  Listening to Mowbray on the website, it sounds as if he might well have changed his mind about letting him go out on loan and give him more games with the first team.  He certainly put more into the game than Brereton has done so far since his arrival - it's the reason why I think Brereton would benefit from a spell with the Under-23's to try to rebuild his confidence in the same way that Nuttall has done.  

[not exactly Scarface]

Just the result you needed ahead of the Newcastle game in a few days.   Incidentally hope you win that day, good luck in the competition.  Seriously, hope you can go a long way - although extra time and penalties would be nice (if you win) in order to tire your players for our trip up next weekend.

Every point is crucial here now, you wouldn't have been involved in it of course but we beat the mighty Rotherham by a single goal yesterday.   In the end it could have gone either way but the three points were huge for us.    We're bringing in a number of players right now.   No thrills names that could be seen reliable but doubtful they'll prove the difference between safety and a fall into League One by end of season.    Up to recently Sears was the best chance of goals, Yes there were others like Jackson, Harrison and Lankester but they were too ineffective for any real mention.

Keane and Quaner have recently come in and Alan Judge is on the verge of a move but nothing decided at time of writing.    Gerken in goal has his moments and Bialkowski (goal) features less often than before but Lambert is moulding a team together that can hopefully compete.   The only worry is it could be seen in League One by August.    Some gave up hope of survival after the Accrington mess, yesterday was encouraging, but it only lifted the hopes a little.    I'd estimate it's 50/50 whether we'll go down or not.    That's why our trip to your ground next weekend is such another pivotal occasion.  

I saw Blackburns league position on the BBC website.   I think you could still reach the play offs with the games remaining but probably finish just outside.  Like ourselves you may just have left things a little late this season or accomplishments may just be out of reach but there's still enough time for things to occur.    Incidentally would have liked to see Dack or Graham come in to us during the recent transfer activities but you realise it was unlikely to happen.   Just see them as good players that can win teams games and something of a valuable commodity to have on board.  

[old darwen blue]

46 minutes ago, not exactly Scarface said:

Just the result you needed ahead of the Newcastle game in a few days.   Incidentally hope you win that day, good luck in the competition.  Seriously, hope you can go a long way - although extra time and penalties would be nice (if you win) in order to tire your players for our trip up next weekend.

Every point is crucial here now, you wouldn't have been involved in it of course but we beat the mighty Rotherham by a single goal yesterday.   In the end it could have gone either way but the three points were huge for us.    We're bringing in a number of players right now.   No thrills names that could be seen reliable but doubtful they'll prove the difference between safety and a fall into League One by end of season.    Up to recently Sears was the best chance of goals, Yes there were others like Jackson, Harrison and Lankester but they were too ineffective for any real mention.

Keane and Quaner have recently come in and Alan Judge is on the verge of a move but nothing decided at time of writing.    Gerken in goal has his moments and Bialkowski (goal) features less often than before but Lambert is moulding a team together that can hopefully compete.   The only worry is it could be seen in League One by August.    Some gave up hope of survival after the Accrington mess, yesterday was encouraging, but it only lifted the hopes a little.    I'd estimate it's 50/50 whether we'll go down or not.    That's why our trip to your ground next weekend is such another pivotal occasion.  

I saw Blackburns league position on the BBC website.   I think you could still reach the play offs with the games remaining but probably finish just outside.  Like ourselves you may just have left things a little late this season or accomplishments may just be out of reach but there's still enough time for things to occur.    Incidentally would have liked to see Dack or Graham come in to us during the recent transfer activities but you realise it was unlikely to happen.   Just see them as good players that can win teams games and something of a valuable commodity to have on board.  

I have a feeling that you’ll be very pleasantly surprised with Judge pal. 

[DeeCee]

3 hours ago, not exactly Scarface said:

Just the result you needed ahead of the Newcastle game in a few days.   Incidentally hope you win that day, good luck in the competition.  Seriously, hope you can go a long way - although extra time and penalties would be nice (if you win) in order to tire your players for our trip up next weekend.

Every point is crucial here now, you wouldn't have been involved in it of course but we beat the mighty Rotherham by a single goal yesterday.   In the end it could have gone either way but the three points were huge for us.    We're bringing in a number of players right now.   No thrills names that could be seen reliable but doubtful they'll prove the difference between safety and a fall into League One by end of season.    Up to recently Sears was the best chance of goals, Yes there were others like Jackson, Harrison and Lankester but they were too ineffective for any real mention.

Keane and Quaner have recently come in and Alan Judge is on the verge of a move but nothing decided at time of writing.    Gerken in goal has his moments and Bialkowski (goal) features less often than before but Lambert is moulding a team together that can hopefully compete.   The only worry is it could be seen in League One by August.    Some gave up hope of survival after the Accrington mess, yesterday was encouraging, but it only lifted the hopes a little.    I'd estimate it's 50/50 whether we'll go down or not.    That's why our trip to your ground next weekend is such another pivotal occasion.  

I saw Blackburns league position on the BBC website.   I think you could still reach the play offs with the games remaining but probably finish just outside.  Like ourselves you may just have left things a little late this season or accomplishments may just be out of reach but there's still enough time for things to occur.    Incidentally would have liked to see Dack or Graham come in to us during the recent transfer activities but you realise it was unlikely to happen.   Just see them as good players that can win teams games and something of a valuable commodity to have on board.  

Think your 50/50 opinion is a long way off the mark tbh, more like 80/20 and that's being generous ?

Always going to struggle to get the type of players you need to survive when your in that position also.

Should have kept MM but that's hindsight for your chairman, who, incidentally I think is a prick.

Good luck but I don't think you'll be taking any points away from Ewood.