An Evening with Tony Mowbray

[blueboy3333]

2 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

That's fair enough blueboy.  That's your view.  Others, like myself, view him differently and believe he has been very good for this club.  Fortunately, at the moment it would appear he has the full support of the owners so the next couple of transfer windows will see if he can build on the work he has already done.  I think the majority of supporters are behind him because they believe he is building the club on the right lines.

The majority of supporters on here are behind him so you are right on that. I just like to think 'my view' is based on what is actually happening rather than vague notions of what might happen. In my view, and in the view of the majority of people I know (and in the poll on here), he gets the summer and early next season to massively up his game. The good will of the promotion season cant go on forever. I don't think he's overachieving this season and I very much doubt the owners think finishing 15th-20th in the league is any great achievement. He had good Championship players when he walked into the club and he's been allowed a good budget since, certainly more than a lot of clubs around us.

There is also nothing fortunate about faith being shown in him by appalling owners.

I'm just dealing in tangibles. ?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

They do, but if fans had their way Johnson would have been sacked the season we went down and Farke would have been sacked last season. 

Fair points. I look forward to us blowing away teams with our superior pass and move game next season (Naaarwich) or our ability to keep clean sheets and nick games 1-0 (Brizzle)

Nah, me neither....?

[Ewood Ace]

17 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Every time he opens his mouth there is a contradiction. 

Mowbray in a nutshell. What he says and what he does are usually two very different things.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Fair points. I look forward to us blowing away teams with our superior pass and move game next season (Naaarwich) or our ability to keep clean sheets and nick games 1-0 (Brizzle)

Nah, me neither....?

Ya, it will be great alright...  

[blueboy3333]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

As is my point that he didn't sign him just because he played well against him once. 

But he said he did according to people who were there. He's said it about others players too. He even said he signed players for our League 1 campaign if they fitted two criteria:-

1) He managed them before

2) He played well against his teams. 

Those were his words. That lazy Sunday League (classic Small Faces) recruitment policy had obviously continued. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Not making excuses for Mowbray , but I just wonder does managing this club mean that the manager may have to always contradict themselves until the get things the way they/the fans want?  The owners are still clueless idiots, they have just managed (luckily) to hire a manager and team around him that is getting back somewhere(albeit still miles away) from where we were at when they bought the club. They could be telling him one thing one day and then it's off the agenda the next. 

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

It's heartening that all the things that Mowbray has criticised himself for are all the things the more discerning poster on here has been criticising him for. We won't name names (I'm just too classy) but the non-thinking types that defend everything Mowbray does and says will need to reflect long and hard this morning on the hurt and upset they have caused to quality posters by doing awful things like attaching 'laughing emojis' to quality posts. It  must be very sobering experience for them. They are in my thoughts. 

They are all in agreement with Tony this morning yet have blatantly disagreed and taken opposite views to the one's of us saying the same things TM did last night for the past few months ?

Maybe some pennies will finally drop and they'll realise majorities are very rarely wrong and there'll be MB harmony from here on in.....

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

But he said he did according to people who were there. He's said it about others players too. He even said he signed players for our League 1 campaign if they fitted two criteria:-

1) He managed them before

2) He played well against his teams. 

Those were his words. That lazy Sunday League (classic Small Faces) recruitment policy had obviously continued. 

If in isolation, yes, but I don't think he just saw a player play against him once then okayed the signing. There must haven been additional research done. It seems to me that he does like to sign players who either played well against his team or who he manged, no denying that,  but it seems some fans are just adamant that he sees a player play against him once and then signs them. I doubt that is the case, particularity with BB. It would completely go against his (frustratingly at times) conservative nature. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Parsonblue]

47 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

The majority of supporters on here are behind him so you are right on that. I just like to think 'my view' is based on what is actually happening rather than vague notions of what might happen. In my view, and in the view of the majority of people I know (and in the poll on here), he gets the summer and early next season to massively up his game. The good will of the promotion season cant go on forever. I don't think he's overachieving this season and I very much doubt the owners think finishing 15th-20th in the league is any great achievement. He had good Championship players when he walked into the club and he's been allowed a good budget since, certainly more than a lot of clubs around us.

There is also nothing fortunate about faith being shown in him by appalling owners.

I'm just dealing in tangibles. ?

I too am dealing in tangibles and we are in a far stronger position today than when he took over at every level.  In twelve months time we will have a better idea as to how he is progressing.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just looking at the stats there about who was involved in the most goals (goals and assists) since Mowbray took over. It's on twitter. 

I will tell ye something for nothing, he hit the jackpot signing Dack. 

I just wonder where we would be if we never signed him. 

[blueboy3333]

2 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

I too am dealing in tangibles and we are in a far stronger position today than when he took over at every level.  In twelve months time we will have a better idea as to how he is progressing.

Fair. Its a question of faith. We shall revisit this in 2020 ?

[jim mk2]

12 months from now is a long time in football.  Mowbray might have his eyes on next season and talk a good game about "progress" but the more pertinent question is whether Mowbray will last to the end of this season. 

At the moment we've lost 4 in a row and the team have been so poor it's difficult to see where the next win is coming from.  How many defeats is Mowbray allowed before his position becomes untenable? 

[Parsonblue]

3 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

12 months from now is a long time in football.  Mowbray might have his eyes on next season and talk a good game about "progress" but the more pertinent question is whether Mowbray will last to the end of this season. 

At the moment we've lost 4 in a row and the team have been so poor it's difficult to see where the next win is coming from.  How many defeats is Mowbray allowed before his position becomes untenable? 

Did you think Kenny's was untenable with six on the trot.  I remember losing seven on the trot but we didn't change the manager - even though we ended up being relegated.  If you appoint a manager and if, for the most part, he has delivered then surely you back him when things get tough.  I believe he will still be here in twelve months time and, hopefully, we'll continue to be in a stronger position.  

[jim mk2]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

Did you think Kenny's was untenable with six on the trot.  I remember losing seven on the trot but we didn't change the manager - even though we ended up being relegated.  If you appoint a manager and if, for the most part, he has delivered then surely you back him when things get tough.  I believe he will still be here in twelve months time and, hopefully, we'll continue to be in a stronger position.  

I was waiting for the Dalglish case and boom it came back within minutes  Dalglish was a different time and place and is irrelevant in the club's current situation.

It goes without saying everyone hopes Mowbray will be here in 12 months and Rovers in a better place than at present. But you cannot ignore the question of our current poor form and what happens if it continues. Wishing it away and saying it will all be right in 12 months (this time next year we'll be millionaires Rodney) doesn't wash.. 

[Parsonblue]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

I was waiting for the Dalglish case and boom it came back within minutes  Dalglish was a different time and place and is irrelevant in the club's current situation.

It goes without saying everyone hopes Mowbray will be here in 12 months and Rovers in a better place than at present. But you cannot ignore the question of our current poor form and what happens if it continues. Wishing it away and saying it will all be right in 12 months (this time next year we'll be millionaires Rodney) doesn't wash.. 

But you can't keep sacking managers every five minutes because of a poor run of form.  All clubs have poor runs.  This season was about consolidating a position in the Championship.  We are well on the way to having done that.  If we were in the bottom three I could understand your point but we aren't.  As for Kenny, in many ways that was a worse situation.  We were running away with the League when we hit that poor run and then ended up snatching a play-off place on the last day when we really looked like winning the League.  That's football - it's unpredictable.

[DE.]

27 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Just looking at the stats there about who was involved in the most goals (goals and assists) since Mowbray took over. It's on twitter. 

I will tell ye something for nothing, he hit the jackpot signing Dack. 

I just wonder where we would be if we never signed him. 

Entirely likely we would have been looking at the playoff lottery last season rather than automatic promotion. I don't think anybody can hand over heart say our football was good enough to take us up whether Dack was in the team or not. He was so important to everything we did last season (and still is this season) that I'd genuinely say by himself he may have been worth 15-20 extra points. 

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, CP Company Lad said:

I have family who are ST holders who call it as it is and I enjoy watching Rovers when the chance arises. Your squad is lacking quality/depth imo so the obvious option is cash in and strengthen. 

Im not doubting that we need to strengthen. 

But look at @DE. and his excellent and well researched point as to how reliant we are on Dack (and Graham) for goals. Cashing in on him would be the opposite of strengthening. Quite a few of the other players on that list are his signings and have barely contributed at all. I dont think people realise how impressive his stats are in an average team, and how important he is to us. If the choice was Dack or the Dack proceeds in Mowbrays hands id choose the former everytime and that isnt necessarily just a slight on Mowbrays recruitment. The whole sell your best player and buy half a new team idea rarely works as well in practice as it does in theory.

Edited February 22, 2019 by roversfan99

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

How do you know what he is talking about? 

 I am sure he watched clips as well as seeing him live before spending the money. But of course because Mowbray said BB played well against his team the narrative on here has now become "Mowbray signed him after he played well against his team once".

One of the most conservative managers tactically, personnel wise and transfer wise just went against everything we know of him and splashed 7 million on someone he saw play once. It doesn't really add up 

@MCMC1875 was bang on. My criticism was based on the suggestion of signing a player solely based on an individual performance. Of course, that might not be totally factual. I would like to think plenty of research and scouting went into the deal, albeit that is certainly not something that seems to have happened based on what we have seen since.

I stand by my statement that you see far more at a game than on TV, no matter how big. Thats a fact. You see every player, every bit of the pitch and everything not picked up by the camera. 

If you are scouting an individual player, for most of the game they wont be on camera.

[jim mk2]

13 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

But you can't keep sacking managers every five minutes because of a poor run of form.  All clubs have poor runs.  This season was about consolidating a position in the Championship.  We are well on the way to having done that.  If we were in the bottom three I could understand your point but we aren't.  As for Kenny, in many ways that was a worse situation.  We were running away with the League when we hit that poor run and then ended up snatching a play-off place on the last day when we really looked like winning the League.  That's football - it's unpredictable.

Managers live and die by results. Managers usually end of getting the sack through poor form - it's what happens in football.  You're still not answering the question of how much rope Mowbray gets before his position becomes untenable. 

[Ewood Ace]

39 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Did you think Kenny's was untenable with six on the trot.  I remember losing seven on the trot but we didn't change the manager - even though we ended up being relegated.  If you appoint a manager and if, for the most part, he has delivered then surely you back him when things get tough.  I believe he will still be here in twelve months time and, hopefully, we'll continue to be in a stronger position.  

The poor form extends well beyond these current 4 defeats in a row, its 7 defeats in our last 11, we've lost 9 of our last 16.  As I said the other day the high point of our season was at home to Leeds an excellent performance that took us up to fifth at the final whistle. Since then we've got 22 points from 20 games (which is the form of a side battling relegation) and we have lost half of those 20 games.

We had a good start to the season where we had the sprit and momentum from last season and sides had not worked us out, recently though the momentum and spirit has gone and sides have worked out that if you stop Graham and Dack then you stop us and we have been either unable or unwilling to find another way to play.  Also since that Leeds game you could count on one hand the amount of halves where we have played well.  

Edited February 22, 2019 by Ewood Ace

[Parsonblue]

9 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Managers live and die by results. Managers usually end of getting the sack through poor form - it's what happens in football.  You're still not answering the question of how much rope Mowbray gets before his position becomes untenable. 

I would certainly give him until the end of next season unless we completely go off the rails next year, which I don't expect.  I certainly don't think his position should be questioned this season even if results are indifferent between now and the end of the campaign.  We are only a couple of wins away from ensuring our place for next season - I'm not even sure the likes of Ipswich and Bolton will reach 40 points and Rotherham are struggling for wins whilst grinding out draws.  The target which we were told at the consultation meeting last summer was consolidation and great if it was better.  I certainly think we will have achieved the former come May and personally, I've never regarded promotion this season as a realistic possibility despite promising early results.

[jim mk2]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

I would certainly give him until the end of next season unless we completely go off the rails next year, which I don't expect.  I certainly don't think his position should be questioned this season even if results are indifferent between now and the end of the campaign.  We are only a couple of wins away from ensuring our place for next season - I'm not even sure the likes of Ipswich and Bolton will reach 40 points and Rotherham are struggling for wins whilst grinding out draws.  The target which we were told at the consultation meeting last summer was consolidation and great if it was better.  I certainly think we will have achieved the former come May and personally, I've never regarded promotion this season as a realistic possibility despite promising early results.

The signs are we "coming off the rails" this season, never mind next. Mowbray left Coventry after losing 9 in a row - would you be happy with him continuing with us in similar circumstances? 

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

That's fair enough blueboy.  That's your view.  Others, like myself, view him differently and believe he has been very good for this club.  Fortunately, at the moment it would appear he has the full support of the owners so the next couple of transfer windows will see if he can build on the work he has already done.  I think the majority of supporters are behind him because they believe he is building the club on the right lines.

When you are being benchmarked against Kean and C o y l e it's of no surprise that some feel comfortable and safe with Mowbray!

I've described Mowbray as a 'steady Eddie' at best and based upon what I saw and heard last night, I haven't changed my mind.  IMO, he's taken us as far as he can. 

Even Mowbray himself said last night he'd been brought in to save us from the drop, after inheriting some good players, and had failed - seems like he went to Pune after relegation half expecting the chop.

[Parsonblue]

Just now, Mercer said:

When you are being benchmarked against Kean and C o y l e it's of no surprise that some feel comfortable and safe with Mowbray!

I've described Mowbray as a 'steady Eddie' at best and based upon what I saw and heard last night, I haven't changed my mind.  IMO, he's taken us as far as he can. 

Even Mowbray himself said last night he'd been brought in to save us from the drop, after inheriting some good players, and had failed - seems like he went to Pune after relegation half expecting the chop.

But clearly the owners had the good sense to keep him on - probably the best decision they have made thus far.

[AllRoverAsia]

Owners pay for a manager to fly to Pune so they have the task of sacking him face to face? 

No way,  not in a million Buddha lifetimes.

Edited February 22, 2019 by AllRoverAsia