Rovers V Bristol City

[roversfan99]

19 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

disappointed to lose today after I felt we deserve a point at least. 

First Half wasn't the best apart from an Armstrong and Reed missing the ball from a cross centre in the box which he would have scored. Defensively decent but Bristol City caused a few problems including a great chance from a corner their number 9 missed

second half, we started well cos we should have scored in their 1st minute if Dack would have pass much better to Armstrong. Dack did brilliant to get a chance at goal. 

but we never reach our top level and we weren't at our best. 

I thought Bennett was brilliant today and show why for my he is one of the 1st names on teamsheet. He was very good at right back and even better on the right wing. 

Mowbray was right to bring Travis off. if he stayed on he would have got sent off. very sensible by Mowbray despite what some members think. Same as Lee Johnson did with their right back Bailey Wright after Armstrong had the better of him. that's change when he bought on a different right back. 

disappointed that Brereton did not come on instead of Nuttall. I felt that we were tired after 75 mins and after they scored we didn't have the spirit to get a goal. 

I would have bought on Rothwell and Brereton for Graham and Dack who I felt look knackered after 70 odd minutes. 

I didn't booed Palmer or clapped him. He is showpony for me and didn't do anything today despite what @roversfan99. says and what he did to fans at the Blackburn End wasn't 

I expected a mid table finish and not a playoff push this season. We need 4 or 5 quality signings in summer and keep hold of Dack then I expect a playoff push. 

Mowbray has done a great job here and after signing a new contract 3 months ago he going nowhere any time soon. The owners bought into his vision for the club and his plans for the club. Long may this continue IMO. 

 

Not sure how we warranted a point in your eyes, dont really recall us creating anything substantial.

Dack should have stayed on, he was not at his best but him and Graham are our primary goal threats, always most likely to take a chance. You would have brought on 2 players yet to score in a Rovers shirt. Thats the problem, the difference between Dack, Graham and Armstrong and the rest of our attackers (Rothwell, Nuttall and Brereton) is absolutely massive. 

Palmer was a nightmare for Rovers when he came on, kept the ball every time, you have backed yourself into a corner with your insistence that he is a "show pony" (the only description you ever use of him!) and it is blurring your view of him. His time here was undoubtedly an underwhelming spell, due to both Mowbray for how he used him and of course the player himself, but for me he had more of an impact on our season than Rothwell has.

I am not convinced that the players are as fit as they could or should be.

Mowbray is doing a good job yes but that line you constantly peddle about only expecting mid table may be fair enough to an extent, but you shouldnt allow it to seemingly eliminate any potential to criticise him when he does something wrong. I agree about the Travis situation, I felt it was a wise move to make. But why take off our top scorer and put a player whose yet to score this season in his position? Why did he make so many tactical changes during the game which seemingly confused the players more than they aided them? And matters not relating to todays game but more to our overall season. Why do we throw away so many leads? Why do we concede so many goals? Why have we spent the majority of our budget on a striker collecting dust on the sideline while Nuttall comes on ahead of him when we need a goal?

[Oldgregg86]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

'Project' signing FFS! 

Also known as massive gambles

[roversfan99]

And project signings, also known as players who have done absolutely nothing thus far to suggest they are going to justify their signing.

[Stuart]

7 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Also known as massive gambles

Also known as massive mistakes.

[@roverseas]

So that will be 90 minutes I will not be getting back again. Rovers dyer today, taking the form from the Brentford game into this match. I was optimistic prior to kick off that we would get something today. But dogged as Bristol City are, thats the way momentum rolls these days. Win scrappy like that means something at the end of the season. Strong contenders to be well in the mix and the end of the season are Bristol City, as for us, its not pretty at the moment, but we need a response from the lads away against Reading. Teams at the bottom getting nippy, and it will be another scrappy one on Wednesday I am sure. If we can string a couple of wins together in the next week, we may get another "playoff lifeline".  Meanwhile, match stats, heat maps, words from the gaffa and opposition supporter Dave Skinner from the One Stream in Bristol podcast. 

 

[HowieFive0]

Mid table .

Two sides who were on an even keel at times although Bristol were always on the front foot (six players forward whenever the came forward)

Travis lucky not see a second yellow ..hence the sub and quite rightly so...Dack off the boil ..maybe carrying an injury as was muted before the game...

DG exceptional ..and kept on ..and still got beat ,,that puts that myth to bed.

We are where we are and that's reasonable for a promoted side..i blame the Championship for getting a few hopes up on here ..ie ..anyone can beat anyone.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Rothwell, Davenport and Chapman are all perfect project signings. Lads who have shown ability in patches and who were available on reasonable deals. 7 million is a lot to spend on a striker who doesn't play. No doubt at this point that money could have helped us in the short term if spent elsewhere last summer or in January. We had a chance to break into the play offs, Brereton has contributed next to nothing towards that cause. Very odd and looking more odd as time goes on. 

Not his fault. 

Edited February 9, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[JeffRover]

I’m astounded that a minority were questioning Mowbray for taking Travis off. Absolutely the correct decision but just shows that some will find any excuse to get the pitch forks out when we lose. That doesn’t mean I think Mowbray is exempt from criticism, but some of the daggers that people try to stab him with are dirty to say the least.

[arbitro]

In comparison to the last home game it was like chalk and cheese. Where was the intensity, pace and commitment that we saw against Hull. We were devoid of energy today which puzzled me as I expected a reaction to last weeks hammering. Mowbrays only tactic today seemed to be a long diagonal to Graham who put himself up against the tiny Dasilva to head the ball back across. But Graham was so out of touch he didn't win many headers cleanly and our game plan floundered. Mowbray did his usual chess piece substitution and moved several players around when like for like would have done. However I don't think they were the reasons we lost. The goal we conceded was pitiful and once again our keeper was at fault. How a ball can travel at that height with no great pace along our six yard box with Raya rooted to his line is incomprehensible. Quite simply he needs dropping.

I thought I had heard it all in football until I saw Brereton described as a project signing. It sounds like an ase covering description.

 

[Hasta]

Just now, JeffRover said:

I’m astounded that a minority were questioning Mowbray for taking Travis off. Absolutely the correct decision but just shows that some will find any excuse to get the pitch forks out when we lose. That doesn’t mean I think Mowbray is exempt from criticism, but some of the daggers that people try to stab him with are dirty to say the least.

Travis substitution was spot on. Dack however .....

[Miller11]

This new phrase that is cropping up - “project signings” is a big worry for me...

We have a top academy that should be about building players for the first team squad. 

IF  there is any desire for us to get back into the Premier League in the foreseeable future, I don’t see how these so called project signings fit in. Are any of them going to be able to cut it in the top flight?

Our efforts at the moment should be concentrated on Promotion, and signing players who can help us get there... and before anyone chirps up and tells me it’s unrealistic to expect that this season, I don’t expect it, I’m not saying this season. But I am saying ASAP. Also, let’s not forget it looked distinctly within reach a fortnight ago.

[JeffRover]

8 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Travis substitution was spot on. Dack however .....

I agree that the Dack substitution was questionable and one I wouldn’t have made. However in December some folks on here were calling for Dack to be dropped from the starting eleven altogether. Others have today stated that he is our most potent threat (which I happen to agree with) but it’s banded about as one of the reasons we lost the game. It wasn’t, the reason we lost the game was p!ss poor defending of a set piece.

Edited February 9, 2019 by JeffRover

[blueboy3333]

14 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

 

DG exceptional ..and kept on ..and still got beat ,,that puts that myth to bed.

 

DG  was far from exceptional and the goal we conceded was from a corner kick so it actually emphasises the point that we don't capitulate when he's on the pitch. 

[Parsonblue]

Frustrating to lose but it was a tight game and always looked like one goal would win it.  We had chances but didn't make the most of them.  Bristol took a late opportunity that came their way.  Travis and Reed struggled, which happens with young players from time to time.  Dack was ineffective, possibly still carrying a knock.

Overall, we are in a decent position considering it's our first season back - Rotherham and Wigan have found the transition far more difficult.  I'm more than happy with consolidation this season and then add some quality in the summer.

Personally, I think we are fortunate to have Mowbray as manager at this point in time as he slowly rebuilds the foundations of the club.  The Academy and Under-23's are now progressing again and these are the building blocks on which future success can be built - together with one or two astute signings.

At the end of the day, despite the result today, this season will see us finish higher than last season so progress has been made.

[JeffRover]

1 minute ago, Miller11 said:

This new phrase that is cropping up - “project signings” is a big worry for me...

We have a top academy that should be about building players for the first team squad. 

IF  there is any desire for us to get back into the Premier League in the foreseeable future, I don’t see how these so called project signings fit in. Are any of them going to be able to cut it in the top flight?

Our efforts at the moment should be concentrated on Promotion, and signing players who can help us get there... and before anyone chirps up and tells me it’s unrealistic to expect that this season, I don’t expect it, I’m not saying this season. But I am saying ASAP. Also, let’s not forget it looked distinctly within reach a fortnight ago.

I agree that if we have aspirations over the next couple of seasons to get to the promised land then we do need to up our game in the recruitment department. However, the policy of a lot of fans is just “spend, spend, spend” Redknapp style which would just make things worse and leave us back at square one.

[DE.]

Project signings are fine as long as they aren't brought in at the expense of first team improvement. Rothwell, Davenport and Chapman are all pretty negligible as far as fees and presumably wages are concerned so fine, low risk, potentially high reward. Brereton is unfortunately not in that category and it's concerning that the lad isn't even getting time in the u23's, let alone out on loan anywhere. What is being achieved by letting him sit on the bench and get 20 minutes here and there? 

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, JeffRover said:

However, the policy of a lot of fans is just “spend, spend, spend” 

I think you've just made that up. Fans just want better players. 

[JeffRover]

Just now, DE. said:

Project signings are fine as long as they aren't brought in at the expense of first team improvement. Rothwell, Davenport and Chapman are all pretty negligible as far as fees and presumably wages are concerned so fine, low risk, potentially high reward. Brereton is unfortunately not in that category and it's concerning that the lad isn't even getting time in the u23's, let alone out on loan anywhere. What is being achieved by letting him sit on the bench and get 20 minutes here and there? 

The difficulty we’ve got at the minute is that to improve the first 11 than a lot of money needs to be spent. Not only in fees (which Venky’s seem willing to pay lately) but also in wages. That is the big issue. It appears that a very rigid wage structure has been implemented across the playing staff in order to get the wages/turnover ratio to a more sustainable level. This means that a lot of the domestic recruitment tends to be limited to these “project signings” as they will fall in line with the wage structure we have. This means that as a matter of urgency we need to be hammering the European market to try and find those hidden gems. Scouting in the Uk only is no longer good enough if you want to operate on a budget.

[Miller11]

Just now, JeffRover said:

I agree that if we have aspirations over the next couple of seasons to get to the promised land then we do need to up our game in the recruitment department. However, the policy of a lot of fans is just “spend, spend, spend” Redknapp style which would just make things worse and leave us back at square one.

Absolutely agree, we need to get the signings right.

Some seasoned Championship competitors, an older head or two who will drag us up kicking and screaming are what I feel we need. Players who will compliment the good, young talented players we have, and provide a bit of bottle and a hard edge we are severely lacking at the moment.

[JeffRover]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I think you've just made that up. Fans just want better players. 

To get better players than the ones we have, substantial transfer and agents fees will have to be spent. I hope you realise this?

[HowieFive0]

8 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

DG  was far from exceptional and the goal we conceded was from a corner kick so it actually emphasises the point that we don't capitulate when he's on the pitch. 

Good ! ..even better ..that myth certainly put to bed now .

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Frustrating to lose but it was a tight game and always looked like one goal would win it.  We had chances but didn't make the most of them.  Bristol took a late opportunity that came their way.  Travis and Reed struggled, which happens with young players from time to time.  Dack was ineffective, possibly still carrying a knock.

Overall, we are in a decent position considering it's our first season back - Rotherham and Wigan have found the transition far more difficult.  I'm more than happy with consolidation this season and then add some quality in the summer.

Personally, I think we are fortunate to have Mowbray as manager at this point in time as he slowly rebuilds the foundations of the club.  The Academy and Under-23's are now progressing again and these are the building blocks on which future success can be built - together with one or two astute signings.

At the end of the day, despite the result today, this season will see us finish higher than last season so progress has been made.

If the bottom paragraph is your way of judging whether this season has been a success, even finishing bottom with zero points would be deemed progress. 

I dont really recall much in the way of chances to be honest. Was a very limp display.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, JeffRover said:

To get better players than the ones we have, substantial transfer and agents fees will have to be spent. I hope you realise this?

So we won't improve then unless we do a Redknapp? 

[JeffRover]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

So we won't improve then unless we do a Redknapp? 

It depends whether or not we intend to just stay in the British market to recruit players. If so then the odds of picking up bargains like Bowyer did only 4 to 5 seasons ago get slimmer and slimmer by the year.

[chaddyrovers]

45 minutes ago, JHRover said:

So what happens if we don't get the 4-5 quality signings? Either because we can't afford them, the manager can't find them or we have a repeat of Brereton and they never get in the team?

What happens if we lose Dack? Does the play-off push plan get thrown out of the window?

I agree Mowbray has done a good job here. As for going nowhere any time soon I find that to be concerning. Of course we all HOPE he continues to do well and by virtue of that is here long term but that SHOULD depend entirely on results and league position. We had an awful Xmas, an excellent January and now we've had two very poor results in February. I'm afraid regardless of contract situation and 'visions' for the club the manager is judged on results and if those aren't good enough then he SHOULD be under pressure from above. You seem to be suggesting that he should be safe in his job irrespective of results just because the owners like him and gave him a contract extension. 

lots of ifs, but's and m,aybe's there JH. 

I believe we will get these 4 or 5 quality signings which I think couple will be from overseas. 

If we lose Dack then we lose Dack. But I'm not sure we see teams bid for him this summer. If we did lose him I would be tempt to move playing 4-4-2 next season with Armstrong up front. 

I believe that the owners have bought into Mowbray's 'vision' for this club and we wont get any rush decisions from them. Surely the aim for THIS season was mid table/top 10 finish? Do I believe this season is over already with us? No I don't. 

41 minutes ago, JHRover said:

This is the problem though. Mowbray speaks about longer term development and yet Reed isn't our player, and will likely not be here beyond the summer, Rodwell is also out of contract and may not want to stick around, we simply aren't in a position to make a 'project signing'. How many of Bristol City's signings have been 'project buys'?

Rothwell has barely featured because the manager hasn't played him. He's been fit and ready all season as far as I'm aware. Davenport - who is he going to ever play ahead of in this squad? Chapman is another project by the looks of things. 

 

Mowbray wants Reed to sign here permanent and I'm not sure he will be part of Southampton's long term plan, Rodwell is another one who seems to like it here and has bought into Mowbray. 

Not interested in comparing us to other teams which you like to do. 

34 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Not sure how we warranted a point in your eyes, dont really recall us creating anything substantial.

Dack should have stayed on, he was not at his best but him and Graham are our primary goal threats, always most likely to take a chance. You would have brought on 2 players yet to score in a Rovers shirt. Thats the problem, the difference between Dack, Graham and Armstrong and the rest of our attackers (Rothwell, Nuttall and Brereton) is absolutely massive. 

Palmer was a nightmare for Rovers when he came on, kept the ball every time, you have backed yourself into a corner with your insistence that he is a "show pony" (the only description you ever use of him!) and it is blurring your view of him. His time here was undoubtedly an underwhelming spell, due to both Mowbray for how he used him and of course the player himself, but for me he had more of an impact on our season than Rothwell has.

I am not convinced that the players are as fit as they could or should be.

Mowbray is doing a good job yes but that line you constantly peddle about only expecting mid table may be fair enough to an extent, but you shouldnt allow it to seemingly eliminate any potential to criticise him when he does something wrong. I agree about the Travis situation, I felt it was a wise move to make. But why take off our top scorer and put a player whose yet to score this season in his position? Why did he make so many tactical changes during the game which seemingly confused the players more than they aided them? And matters not relating to todays game but more to our overall season. Why do we throw away so many leads? Why do we concede so many goals? Why have we spent the majority of our budget on a striker collecting dust on the sideline while Nuttall comes on ahead of him when we need a goal?

Havent I already told you by posting on here. I don't recall Raya having loads of oustanding saves to make either. Rovers had 11 shots today, 2 on target, 3 blocked shots. 

Dack and Graham look shattered second half. so yes I would have took both off for the 2 players I said previously. 

and no I haven't backed myself into any corner with Palmer, he is showpony and was poor for us. Did nothing today worth of note. 

confused the players? you really think Bennett was confused by the role he was asked to play? really? he had a detailed conversation with him. He played that role against Brentford at Home which I believe you didn't attend? correct?