Reading v Rovers

[Hasta]

2 hours ago, unsall said:

Understand perfectly thank you, also understand we’ve just come from lower league, and people will have to be patient.

This "coming from a lower league so be patient" theme  is another thing that I have some issue with.

I do not blame Mowbray at all for relegation. Had he come in 2 or 3 games earlier we would probably have stopped up. The team that season were good enough to stay in the league under Mowbray but were undone by Coyle.

He's kept a lot of the team together and has replaced from the lineup that went down at Brentford:-

• Lowe with Smallwood

• Guthrie with Reed

• Gallagher with Dack

• Ward with Rodwell.

He's shifted out some of the deadwood and, in the instances above, has improved the starting XI. Out of the above, only Dack had no Championship experience - and he has taken to it perfectly.

Therefore why are we talking like we are a team such as Southend who are playing at a new level for the first time in 25 years.

We shouldn't have gone down last time, we have improved since and the players all know what the Championship is about. 

It's an excuse. Think big.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Hasta

[arbitro]

2 minutes ago, unsall said:

Understand perfectly thank you, also understand we’ve just come from lower league, and people will have to be patient.

I think in general the vast majority of fans are grounded and realistic. I expected to be in a relegation scrap so we are above my expectation at the moment. But the doesn't exempt Mowbray and the players from criticism if I believe they are wrong and that is the same for the majority. I like Mowbray as a person and nobody has had a go at the man himself. His decisions are criticised and as a professional in the public eye he would accept that although not necessarily agree with it.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

For God's sake, we've just lost 3 in a row!

And prior to that we won 4 league games in a row. Just as then I didn't suddenly think TM was a managerial genius - I don't suddenly think after three defeats that we need to get rid of TM (like some are saying).

[unsall]

6 minutes ago, Hasta said:

This "coming from a lower leagues be patient" theme  is another thing that I have some issue with.

I do not blame Mowbray at all for relegation. Had he come in 2 or 3 games earlier we would probably have stopped up. The team that season were good enough to stay in the league under Mowbray but were undone by Coyle.

He's kept a lot of the team together and has replaced from the lineup that went down at Brentford:-

• Lowe with Smallwood

• Guthrie with Reed

• Gallagher with Dack

• Ward with Rodwell.

He's shifted out some of the deadwood and, in the instances above, has improved the starting XI. Out of the above, only Dack had no Championship experience - and he has taken to it perfectly.

Therefore why are we talking like we are a team such as Southend who are playing at a new level for the first time in 25 years.

We shouldn't have gone down last time, we have improved since and the players all know what the Championship is about. 

It's an excuse. Think big.

Ok, but think I’ll be more realistic, club is slowly being run better, if you think we can just go straight up fair enough, you’re not on your own, plenty think like you.

We aren’t ready yet for the premier, like I’ve said patience is the game, hopefully next season with 2/3 acquisitions we can push on.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

There has been times when TMs tactics have been spot on - even Weds night the high pressing up the pitch we employed should have brought goals.

Ì can't say I agree with all his selections - but I am not party to injuries, fitness performance metrics, training etc that TM sees. Imagine DG played the full match on Weds and picked up a muscle injury - fans would then be asking why he played. TBH football managers are on a hiding to nothing - as fans always know better AFTER a bad result - but are generally quiet when a manager gets in right.

I agree the high press up worked. 

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Calling other fans negative is usually the last resort when no constructive criticism can be made.

Mowbray deserves plenty of criticism for these last 3 games, just as he was praised plenty during last month. Weve reverted to giving away plenty of easy goals and many of the common flaws that have haunted us really this season have come back with a vengeance.

His team selection on Wednesday opened himself up to plenty of criticism. Chaddy picking a totally different team yet then arguing the toss against those who criticised Mowbray for what he picked has lost him any credibility he may have had. 

Even if Graham and Dack were deemed unfit, there are plenty of other bizarre calls he made which led to our defeat. Personnel choices with a very uninspiring midfield, and Reed, Rothwell and Nyambe all on the bench, and tactical choices, with Armstrong central and Brereton out wide. Its not the first time hes made a massively changed side this season, and he implied post match that he does target home games and that Sunday is more important. When Allardyce said similar he was rightly crucifed.

Mowbrays unwillingness to admit or seemingly be desperate to fix our piss poor defensive record has to be a major concern as we wont progress conceding at the rate we do.

Yes a mid table finish would be fairly reasonable and I personally dont want Mowbray sacked. But its the manner of our defeats that has caused concern and our place in the table cannot be used as a cloak to protect him from individual pieces of criticism when it is due.

No it is the last resort at all. 

What does it matter what team I picked. I'm not the manager and don't have the info. 

The team selection or the tactics wasn't at fault or the problem for the defeat. it was poor finishing especially in the 1st half were we should have scored at least 2 or 3 up[. and 2 poor defending again. 

3 hours ago, tomphil said:

Isn't Mark Hughes available ?  If Rovers were serious about next season then id be inclined to be sounding him out about coming in summer. Might sound harsh on Mowbray but football is a ruthless business and Hughes was a great fit for Rovers in a time when there was a bit of limited finance still available.  I think his record shows he works better under those circumstances and I think he could be the right man at the right time again particularly when you look at the backroom staff he brings and the emphasis he puts on being fit and organised.

TM is creating a good base here but it might take someone else to kick it on unless he gets wise with any investment he might get in summer.

a manager who has never manage at this level. Do you think he would drop down to this level? I doubt it. I think he could end of at foreign club in the summer. Think its time he went back to the old style Mark Hughes 

3 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

You would have lost that bet.

I consider myself a realistic poster as opposed to one living in cloud cookoo land.

I was disappointed that he gave up on winning the L1 title and belittled it when it became obvious Wigan would finish top.

Firstly my apologise for that. 

my stance I wasn't bothered about a league 1 title but just to get out of the league asap and not become another Leeds or Sheffield United at that level. 

1 hour ago, 47er said:

For God's sake, we've just lost 3 in a row!

and before that we won 4 in row and a manager of the month and player of the month. 

yes our form hasn't been consist enough as we would have like but I always though we wouldn't a top 6 side and predict 14th place finish 

[Ewood Ace]

7 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The team selection or the tactics wasn't at fault or the problem for the defeat. it was poor finishing especially in the 1st half were we should have scored at least 2 or 3 up[. and 2 poor defending again. 

Another fantastic contradiction from you. You say that it wasn't team selection that cost us and then go on to criticise the defending and finishing from some of those selected, which suggests to mean that some of the players selected were the wrong ones.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

Another fantastic contradiction from you. You say that it wasn't team selection that cost us and then go on to criticise the defending and finishing from some of those selected, which suggests to mean that some of the players selected were the wrong ones.

not at all. But players make mistakes. Rodwell should have show him down the line, 

players will miss chances doesn't mean the team selection was wrong

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

not at all. But players make mistakes. Rodwell should have show him down the line, 

players will miss chances doesn't mean the team selection was wrong

When you have your top 2 goal scorers on the bench with 21 goals between them and are then complaining about missing chances, I'd say that the selection was wrong. As for Rodwell he's not a centre back, so why is he playing there?

[Sparks Rover]

18 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I agree the high press up worked. 

How? I think Bristol realised with old lead legs Conway, Brereton and his mates they could pass out from the back.

We looked slow and laboured. If you are pressing from the front  like liverpool,  city , etc  you need pace. We have no pace.  Dont say Armstrong because he has league 1 pace.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

When you have your top 2 goal scorers on the bench with 21 goals between them and are then complaining about missing chances, I'd say that the selection was wrong. As for Rodwell he's not a centre back, so why is he playing there?

hasn't Mowbray already told you why Rodwell is playing? blimey I cant believe we are still going over this again and again on the messageboard. FFS 

and yet again going over why Graham and Dack wasn't playing from start. haven't we been told why but yet don't accept them. Graham was shattered on Saturday. very clear to see this. Sharpe tweeted on Wednesday he was surprised Dack played on Saturday due to the injury sustained at Brentford. Mowbray sad after the game Dack only just made the bench on Wednesday. 

But why keep going the same issues when we have the answer on Rodwell playing centre back and us the fans have no different info on the reasons why Graham and Dack.

 

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

How? I think Bristol realised with old lead legs Conway, Brereton and his mates they could pass out from the back.

We looked slow and laboured. If you are pressing from the front  like liverpool,  city , etc  you need pace. We have no pace.  Dont say Armstrong because he has league 1 pace.

I disagree. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

8 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

How? I think Bristol realised with old lead legs Conway, Brereton and his mates they could pass out from the back.

We looked slow and laboured. If you are pressing from the front  like liverpool,  city , etc  you need pace. We have no pace.  Dont say Armstrong because he has league 1 pace.

What?

[Sparks Rover]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I disagree. 

We lost

[Exiled in Toronto]

3 hours ago, K-Hod said:

I don't think it's negative to highlight things such as: 

We concede too many late goals/we conceded late again the other night not long after scoring.

We dropped our two best attacking players to the bench the other night.

Our first choice right back is on the bench and another player that isn't a right back is currently playing there.

If anyone cares about the club, why aren't they allowed to highlight such concerns about this great club that we all support without being labelled negative?

 

 

The only valid criticism to my mind is the tendency to concede late soft goals - worst in the division at that. That speaks to not recruiting the right mix of defenders, selecting too many ‘converted’ defenders, coaching, concentration and fitness issues.

No-one on here knows how fit Dack is right now; he doesn’t look it, isn’t doing the things he was doing earlier in the season, fannied around taking short passes off Rodwell, and I’m not sure Danny Graham touched the ball more than once when he did come on. Dropped is an interpretation based on insufficient facts; our goals against in the last 15 mins is an unarguable fact.

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

What?

He was fast v league 1 defenders. He's finding he cant just kick and run past these lads

[Exiled in Toronto]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

He was fast v league 1 defenders. He's finding he cant just kick and run past these lads

To my eyes that’s all he can do at this level

[Tom]

4 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

We lost

I agree

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

He was fast v league 1 defenders. He's finding he cant just kick and run past these lads

I think that's down to higher quality defenders. He is still rapid, just the players he is up against are wiser to it and defend accordingly. Having said that he showed his effectiveness in January, hence how we won player of the month. So hopefully he is improving and learning new ways to beat people too.  

[Ewood Ace]

12 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

hasn't Mowbray already told you why Rodwell is playing? blimey I cant believe we are still going over this again and again on the messageboard. FFS 

and yet again going over why Graham and Dack wasn't playing from start. haven't we been told why but yet don't accept them. Graham was shattered on Saturday. very clear to see this. Sharpe tweeted on Wednesday he was surprised Dack played on Saturday due to the injury sustained at Brentford. Mowbray sad after the game Dack only just made the bench on Wednesday. 

But why keep going the same issues when we have the answer on Rodwell playing centre back and us the fans have no different info on the reasons why Graham and Dack.

The reason Rodwell is playing at centre back is because we only have two centre backs at the club and as one of them is injured we have to play a midfielder at centre back, that is down to the manager bringing in no defenders in January. 

If Dack and Graham were both struggling then one should have played against Bristol and the other against Reading as we simple don't have the depth in attack to replace both them at the same time again that is due to the manager failing to bring any attacking reinforcements in during January. You yourself have acknowledged that our three attackers Armstrong, Conway and Brereton all missed good chances. Not really sure what Rich Sharpe tweeting has to do with anything, he's hardly a fount of knowledge about the club. Also why was Mowbray sad that Dack only just made the bench on Wednesday? It seems a strange thing to say as I'd have thought he would have been happy to have his top scorer in the squad. 

[roversfan99]

21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

hasn't Mowbray already told you why Rodwell is playing? blimey I cant believe we are still going over this again and again on the messageboard. FFS 

and yet again going over why Graham and Dack wasn't playing from start. haven't we been told why but yet don't accept them. Graham was shattered on Saturday. very clear to see this. Sharpe tweeted on Wednesday he was surprised Dack played on Saturday due to the injury sustained at Brentford. Mowbray sad after the game Dack only just made the bench on Wednesday. 

But why keep going the same issues when we have the answer on Rodwell playing centre back and us the fans have no different info on the reasons why Graham and Dack.

 

What you seem unable to do or accept others doing is questioning decisions once Mowbray has said thats what hes doing, regardless of their effectiveness. Even if he explains what he is doing, Brereton wide, Rodwell centre back, Bennett right back, it doesnt mean that it is right, that it has worked or will work or that it is above questioning. If he plays there continiously and he makes more errors or we still concede goal after goal, he will be questioned and you will seemingly continue to be frustrated that we are "going over and over it FFS."

You also have a clear policy where you never criticise selection, instead pinning each individual goal on an individual mistake. If we are making so many defensive mistakes and have barely spent a penny on defenders, maybe question the quality back there.

If ever there is a decision that you are called out for initially going against but suddenly changing to defend Mowbray, youve got 2 piss poor comebacks, we "dont have inside info" (may explain Graham and Dacks fitness, doesnt explain Brereton wide, Bennett RB, Rodwell CB, Reed, Rothwell and Nyambe subs etc) or that we might not have won anyway! No shit, sherlock!

Rodwell has been a mixed bag at centre back. At times he has made key errors in an unfamiliar position, giving away 2 penalties and backing off on Tuesday. He has been excellent against teams like Millwall, Hull and Ipswich against poor strikers, as his ability on the ball and often his reading of the play is superb. Many believe his home is in his natural midfield role and just because Mowbray wants him in defence doesnt mean they are wrong or cannot question it.

Being mid table isnt a cloak to defend Mowbray against everything be does. If you are incapable or unwilling to criticise Mowbray regardless of what he does or what our results are, fair enough but dont expect others to.

[Leonard Venkhater]

4 hours ago, tomphil said:

Me neither but if they seriously want the club to move onto the next level that is the pond to be fishing in and if they haven't learned that doing it on the cheap doesn't actually do it and costs more in the long run they ought to clear off right now.

 

What evidence is there that the Venky's actually do want to take us to the next level?

The whole pattern, choice of managers, transfer behaviour and league positions etc, since the take over certainly do not point in the direction of "next level".

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

The reason Rodwell is playing at centre back is because we only have two centre backs at the club and as one of them is injured we have to play a midfielder at centre back, that is down to the manager bringing in no defenders in January. 

If Dack and Graham were both struggling then one should have played against Bristol and the other against Reading as we simple don't have the depth in attack to replace both them at the same time again that is due to the manager failing to bring any attacking reinforcements in during January. You yourself have acknowledged that our three attackers Armstrong, Conway and Brereton all missed good chances. Not really sure what Rich Sharpe tweeting has to do with anything, he's hardly a fount of knowledge about the club. Also why was Mowbray sad that Dack only just made the bench on Wednesday? It seems a strange thing to say as I'd have thought he would have been happy to have his top scorer in the squad. 

clearly never read and listen to were Mowbray said Jack Rodwell would play when he signed here. Arrogant that. 

well they didn't. hindsight is such a wonderful thing isn't. Graham being 33 years old now was only going to struggling to play 3 games a week at some point. I see it has the perfect opportunity to play Brereton from the start. 

Sharpe knows alot IMO but didn't go public with it

Edited February 15, 2019 by chaddyrovers

[Ewood Ace]

22 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

clearly never read and listen to were Mowbray said Jack Rodwell would play when he signed here. Arrogant that. 

well they didn't. hindsight is such a wonderful thing isn't. Graham being 33 years old now was only going to struggling to play 3 games a week at some point. I see it has the perfect opportunity to play Brereton from the start. 



Sharpe knows alot IMO but didn't go public with it

When Mowbray signed Rodwell he said 'My idea for him is that we turn him into a centre-half as part of a back three.'  However since Rodwell has been here he has barely if at all played in a back three another example of Mowbray saying one thing and doing another. I would have no problem if he played in a back 3 as I think it would suit him but I don't think he is a good enough defender to be playing as 1 of 2 centre backs.

It's not really hindsight to know that if we drop Graham and Dack at the same time we will struggle to score, it's common sense. You only need to see us play or even just look at the stats to know that if Graham and Dack don't play then we will struggle to score. You say the perfect opportunity for Brereton but again he was played out of position and didn't get the opportunity to show what he can do in Graham's role.

If Sharpe knows a lot but doesn't go public then he's not much of a journalist. When has he ever had a big exclusive about the club or about transfers? Personally I don't think he has much of the inside track on the club.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Ewood Ace

[tomphil]

59 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

What evidence is there that the Venky's actually do want to take us to the next level?

The whole pattern, choice of managers, transfer behaviour and league positions etc, since the take over certainly do not point in the direction of "next level".

They did but sadly until last season all the evidence  was always 'next level BELOW' .

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I agree the high press up worked. 

No it is the last resort at all. 

What does it matter what team I picked. I'm not the manager and don't have the info. 

The team selection or the tactics wasn't at fault or the problem for the defeat. it was poor finishing especially in the 1st half were we should have scored at least 2 or 3 up[. and 2 poor defending again. 

a manager who has never manage at this level. Do you think he would drop down to this level? I doubt it. I think he could end of at foreign club in the summer. Think its time he went back to the old style Mark Hughes 

Firstly my apologise for that. 

my stance I wasn't bothered about a league 1 title but just to get out of the league asap and not become another Leeds or Sheffield United at that level. 

and before that we won 4 in row and a manager of the month and player of the month. 

yes our form hasn't been consist enough as we would have like but I always though we wouldn't a top 6 side and predict 14th place finish 

Agree he needs to go back to the old Mark Hughes and taking a step back at a club like this could be just what he needs and if he did and got us promoted i'd have more faith in him keeping us up than TM.

Granted it's a long shot and yes he hasn't managed at this level but I think the old style Hughes would be just the ticket to get out of this division in a season or two because he has a that ruthless streak. Doubt he'd come but you never know his stock must be pretty down at the moment although he'd want to bring his staff and probably want a written guarantee of a big transfer budget.