Summer Transfer Window 2019

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

22 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I disliked the hype he got - I called him a Match of the Day player. Scored a few crackers every season, which got on tv (when we had our obligatory 20 second highlights at the end of MOTD) and glossed over what a limited player he was. 

Yes you're right, that was a perfect description of him. Guys at work used to rate him off the usual highlights reel. I'd reply " Yeah but that's all he did in the game" . He ran around a bit but to what effect ? Anybody who let's Arteta poke him in the eye and does nothing about it hasn't much beating under badge for me. It's like the myth that he was a good header of the ball - show me all the headed goals he scored !

Bellamy was faster running backwards.

[AAK]

2 hours ago, philipl said:

Don't dismiss Brentford. Owners have money and the dinky new stadium at Kew Bridge will more than double their gate receipts and commercial income.

Selling Raya is an absolute NO from me. He needs better coaching and above all, better defenders in front of him.

One thing ive never understood about football. Brentford get a new statium and the expectation will be bigger crowds, but they never sell out their current small ground, so where do these extra thousands come from? You'd think if thousands extra appeared in a bigger stadium it was because there was a waiting list for tickets in a smaller stadium, but there isnt, so how do they attract more, is it just facilities? never understood that. In any event their crowds wont be much different to our bigger crowds in this division under our current shambolic owners, their new ground is fairly small, capacity only 17k. Doubling their revenue is ambitous. If we had right structure wed double our revnue.

Edited May 18, 2019 by AAK

[adz4d2]

Raya is an asset, wed be silly to sell him unless its a mega number from a prem club, hes made some world class saves this year, he has potential to be  spain no1 someday, hes happy here and dont see him going anywhere, tony will bring in someone to give him competition and he'll kick on this year as will a lot of other players this very exciting times for rovers fans and the only way is up. If we spend well next season we'll definitely be in contention for the playoffs. 

[Fraserkirky]

Yeah for decent money id sell him, thoroughly shocking in the air and makes too many errors. Better keepers out there, experience is so important for a keeper.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Fraserkirky

[JBiz]

2 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

Yeah for decent money id sell him, thoroughly shocking in the air and makes too many errors. Better keepers out there, experience is so important for a keeper.

Jeeeez you don’t get top class keepers from your academy by selling them at 24/25. I agree he’s made mistakes but that’s part of the process. 

For me - if we sell Raya it sends out all the wrong signals and will massively frustrate me in terms of what we are supposedly trying to build.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Jeeeez you don’t get top class keepers from your academy by selling them at 24/25. I agree he’s made mistakes but that’s part of the process. 

For me - if we sell Raya it sends out all the wrong signals and will massively frustrate me in terms of what we are supposedly trying to build.

Mistakes are only part of the process if you learn from them. Raya, like Mowbray, makes the same mistakes repeatedily.

Selling him only sends the wrong signals if we replace him with an inferior player.

[philipl]

7 hours ago, AAK said:

One thing ive never understood about football. Brentford get a new statium and the expectation will be bigger crowds, but they never sell out their current small ground, so where do these extra thousands come from? You'd think if thousands extra appeared in a bigger stadium it was because there was a waiting list for tickets in a smaller stadium, but there isnt, so how do they attract more, is it just facilities? never understood that. In any event their crowds wont be much different to our bigger crowds in this division under our current shambolic owners, their new ground is fairly small, capacity only 17k. Doubling their revenue is ambitous. If we had right structure wed double our revnue.

London is totally different. 

Brentford is in what has in the last decade or so been transformed into one of the wealthier parts of London with a rapidly growing population. 

New stadium is part of a vast new development and has the benefit of being close to the University of West London (about 20,000 students) and developments of over 10,000 new housing units. It is also part of a commercial building so Brentford will make money from that whereas they can hardly raise a bean at Griffin Park.

But the huge advantage of the new ground is travel time getting there will be reduced by at least 30 minutes compared with Griffin Park for the vast majority of fans. Plus the nearest station is now also on the underground and overground. 

It helps being the nearest league football ground for about 1 million people. 

In the last decade or so, Arsenal, Spurs and West Ham have collectively increased capacity by 70,000 and by and large are selling the extra seats.

I might be proved wrong but I doubt they will have problems selling the 17,000 seats. Griffin Park has a capacity of 12,763 and they averaged 10,257 last season. 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by philipl

[philipl]

Just now, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Mistakes are only part of the process if you learn from them. Raya, like Mowbray, makes the same mistakes repeatedily.

Selling him only sends the wrong signals if we replace him with an inferior player.

Conversely selling Raya (which I oppose) and buying an older proven better keeper sends the message of promotion or bust.

[Torgeir]

18 hours ago, WIR Second Coming said:

Did Toogs have legs for the last 4 or 5 seasons..? No, of course he didn't, but he more than made up for that with his ability to make space and find a killer pass. I've often thought Mulgrew might be better placed higher up the field, using his defensive nous and ability to read a game to better effect than is possible from right at the back...

Oh, for a Tugay mark 2!!

How dare you.

[Glosrover]

14 hours ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Sane decision would be to bring in an experienced number 1 and let Raya have 12 months on loan in league one. 

Or with Brentford?  ......

[The Mighty Chaffinch]

The best goalkeepers have a quality that is much harder to quantify than saves and costly mistakes...it's their ability to marshal a back four and develop confidence in the whole unit. The key to this is communication. Sadly, I feel this is where Raya is lacking. He undoubtedly has ability and indeed makes spectacular saves, and has saved us many points, but I never feel the whole unit is secure with him behind them.

Having said that, he remains our best option of the keepers on our books. If Raya is to be sold we must sign a replacement beforehand. Of all the names banded about I'd probably prefer Ruddy, mainly for his stature. There does seem to be a lack of obvious alternatives though 

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, adz4d2 said:

Raya is an asset, wed be silly to sell him unless its a mega number from a prem club, hes made some world class saves this year, he has potential to be  spain no1 someday, hes happy here and dont see him going anywhere, tony will bring in someone to give him competition and he'll kick on this year as will a lot of other players this very exciting times for rovers fans and the only way is up. If we spend well next season we'll definitely be in contention for the playoffs. 

I’ll eat my hat if a PL side comes in with a big money offer for Raya.

He is a long long way off being a top level goalkeeper.

[joey_big_nose]

10 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yes you're right, that was a perfect description of him. Guys at work used to rate him off the usual highlights reel. I'd reply " Yeah but that's all he did in the game" . He ran around a bit but to what effect ? Anybody who let's Arteta poke him in the eye and does nothing about it hasn't much beating under badge for me. It's like the myth that he was a good header of the ball - show me all the headed goals he scored !

Bellamy was faster running backwards.

Like a lot of players during that period he had one or two really good seasons but couldn't sustain it. Same  for Bentley, McCarthy, Santa Cruz, Reid, Savage, Dunn. I guess testament to Hughes skills to get them all firing at the same time when we ha finished 6th.

Only genuine top class players were Tugay, Freidal and maybe you could argue Nelsen. After Hughes left a lot of performances dipped. 

[Sparks Rover]

Raya is just too small to be dominant. 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Sparks Rover

[blueboy3333]

5 hours ago, Biz said:

Jeeeez you don’t get top class keepers from your academy by selling them at 24/25. I agree he’s made mistakes but that’s part of the process. 

For me - if we sell Raya it sends out all the wrong signals and will massively frustrate me in terms of what we are supposedly trying to build.

Are you questioning Tony's judgement? If he sells Raya he must have someone else lined up who he thinks is better. That's a good thing, surely? 

[JBiz]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Are you questioning Tony's judgement? If he sells Raya he must have someone else lined up who he thinks is better. That's a good thing, surely? 

I’d rather we stick with the one who should get better - he’s already decent championship level, and unless we’re spending a big wedge, I doubt we’d get a better player.

As you pointed out on t’uther thread, we’ve conceded far too many and something needs to change, but I’d rather see competition for Raya than a direct replacement.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Biz said:

I’d rather we stick with the one who should get better - he’s already decent championship level, and unless we’re spending a big wedge, I doubt we’d get a better player.

As you pointed out on t’uther thread, we’ve conceded far too many and something needs to change, but I’d rather see competition for Raya than a direct replacement.

Mowbray possibly feels he hasn't got the time to wait for Raya to improve, Venky's will demand play-offs/promotion at some point like they did with Bowyer (this summer would be my guess) There's also no guarantee Raya will get better anyway. 

Mowbray was visibly angry at the end of the season when he was talking about bring a new defence in.  Every single member of that defence has a mistake in them that can and has cost us points.  The fact he dropped both Raya and Mulgrew was obviously significant as, along with Bell, they cost us the most points. The fact he also let it be known under-contract players would be sold was instructive. 

If we get a better GK than Raya then Mowbray has done his job. If Raya didn't want the competition and expected to be No1 then he isn't going to stick around if the manager is saying he's bringing another keeper in. I suppose they would have had that chat last week. As Mowbray said, the players not in the team should have known what was coming. 

Brentford would seem an obvious shout should Raya want to leave. They tend to buy potential in the hope they can improve them. They can also probably guarantee him the No1 jersey as their other keepers look like they are off. 

In the parlance of the wannabe ITK, this transfer probably 'has legs'.

 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

What I don't get is he dropped some of the under performers and then offers Conway a new contract. Alice in Wonderland stuff.

[blueboy3333]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17649944.raya-receives-interest-as-rovers-consider-keeper-options/

Sharpe's take on the Raya situation.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

What I don't get is he dropped some of the under performers and then offers Conway a new contract. Alice in Wonderland stuff.

Depends what he's offered Conway. It might the kind of offer that says 'we both know you can get better money elsewhere, so that's what I'm suggesting you do'. 

Anyway, Raya has 2 years left on his contract so the situations aren't the same. Sharpe is suggesting that Mowbray wants to keep Raya but also sign competition. 

[Neal]

Just now, Biz said:

I’d rather we stick with the one who should get better - he’s already decent championship level, and unless we’re spending a big wedge, I doubt we’d get a better player.

As you pointed out on t’uther thread, we’ve conceded far too many and something needs to change, but I’d rather see competition for Raya than a direct replacement.

Direct competition doesn't sound like an upgrade in a position that has costed us loads of points. It's just another wage added on the wage bill without significant improvement. Raya is a decent keeper but I don't see him being any better than that. Fair enough, he's pulled off some good saves in the past few season but that should be the requirement of any goalkeeper at this standard... Even Leutweiler pulled off some decent ones at Norwich and I recall Simon Eastwood pulling off a few too... Doesn't mean any of them are or were good enough to be in a promotion pushing side.

 

I do agree that people are being a tad sentimental about him. 

[arbitro]

Mowbray has signalled his intent by publicly stating he is looking to sign a new keeper despite Leutwiler signing a new deal. Unless you are a Man City (Richard Wright) or Chelsea (Robert Green) it makes little financial sense to pay a decent wage to somebody who invariably only trains and travels with the team. For me Raya can be sold as I don't think he has improved in two years. The weaknesses he showed then are still there. Undoubtedly his great strength are his reflexes and he is up there with Friedal in that respect but he is average or weak in all other areas. I don't buy the theory of poor coaching neither. Lots of keepers do things naturally and I honestly don't see how any coaching can improve his decision making which is an area that really lets us down.

It's a sell for me and I just get the impression that is the way Mowbray is thinking too

[blueboy3333]

Just now, arbitro said:

Lots of keepers do things naturally and I honestly don't see how any coaching can improve his decision making which is an area that really lets us down.

Indeed. The needless charge to the corner of his box at the DE to give away one of the most stupid penalties I've ever seen had nowt to do with coaching. 

[DE.]

I've never been a huge fan of Raya, but he's good enough for a strong League 1 team and a mid to lower-mid table Championship team. I don't think he'll improve much beyond that level though, so if we have serious ambitions of going up in the next couple of seasons then we need to find a better goalkeeper. I'd like to keep Raya as backup/competition, but if he's not willing to accept that role then it might be best for all parties for him to move on. That's only if we can find better though. I'm still sceptical on that. Our record with goalkeepers has been pretty horrendous since Robinson left - Jake Kean, Eastwood, Steele, Leutwiler... Raya has been the best of the bunch but that isn't saying much. That said I do think the potential is there, and, ultimately I would prefer to keep Raya either as competition for the no1 spot or loan him out and see how he develops elsewhere. I'm not particularly comfortable with selling him completely, but I wouldn't see it as a total disaster either.

[arbitro]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Indeed. The needless charge to the corner of his box at the DE to give away one of the most stupid penalties I've ever seen had nowt to do with coaching. 

The real galling thing in that match was that we were coasting at 2-0 and Birmingham had given up. The penalty gave them hope and in the end we were hanging on to a point.