Summer Transfer Window 2019

[joey_big_nose]

I have to say back 3 seems to layer risk on for me. All you do is create more space down the sides. Mulgrew and Williams lack of turning speed and pace gets exposed.

To some extent I can live with Lenihan and Williams as a CB pair in 442. Lenihan is decent, Williams played well to the end of of the season.  But we need a competent RB and LB, and what do we do if one of the CBs get injured? Mulgrew coming back into the side will see us conceding heavily again.

I am really hoping Wharton or Magloire can show something and be Travis level successes.

[roversfan99]

55 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I’m not missing any point. Mowbray likes the player. Sees him as someone who could be good for us. But the guy is a league one defender and has just been asked to earn his place. If he would rather be the king of Preston then that says more about him and Preston than it does about us...

The King of Preston? Your use of hyperbole is ruining any point you may have, he went on to say that hed have to fight for his place at Preston.

Theres a very reasonable doubt amongst many that Mowbray will sign players for the starting 11, rather than adding "depth" as he puts it but lacking the ruthlessness to remove some of the players that need replacing, Bennett, Bell, Williams, Mulgrew, all of whom should be at best, squad players.

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Hahahah this is mad. So it turns out that the manager has been tracking a league 1 defender who he rates but is asking to fight and be at his very best to get into our team....and he’s criticised for it!?

The fact that Preston gave (League 1 defender) Bauer the keys to the bloody city and that Bauer wasn’t prepared to back his own ability and needed his ego massaging to get the deal done says more about Preston and Bauer in my opinion!! 

Is that a fact though? Bauer's comments on his Preston move suggested he needs to fight for his place there too.

[arbitro]

42 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Why? I don't get it. We lost a player to another club that have, by the sounds of it, offered more playing time than we were willing to offer. We chased him last year, didn't get him, the interest obviously continued but ultimately it didn't work out. What doesn't sit right with you?

Over the course of a transfer window every single club will chase and ultimately lose several players. It's part of the game.

The fact we chased and spoke to a player for a considerable amount of time to be a squad player is what I don't get. If that was Mowbrays intention from day one that's fine but surely he would have moved to bring in another 'squad' player once Bauer became unattainable in either August '18 or January '19. My belief is that Mowbray was confident of bringing him in so he didn't bring in a centre half in January when the consensus was we were desperate.

[Neal]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17729756.rovers-explore-keeper-options-with-leeds-youngster-considered/

 

This suggests to me that they're not now looking for a first choice keeper. If that's the case then that is putting next season in big jeapordy, especially if they fail to strengthen in other key areas too. Raya just isn't good enough for this standard, perhaps he will be in time, but we don't have time to stagnate in this league whilst he develops. 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Neal

[arbitro]

42 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Mate, we’ve been interested in signing the guy for a year because we think he’s a good player...so what? He came in, was told he would need to work hard in order to get in the team and decided he preferred to be knighted on Preston town hall steps! ??

What on Earth is wrong with Mowbray telling any player that they’ve got to work hard to get into his team!? I’m baffled by your stance tbh.

I'm baffled by (arguably) Mowbray chasing a player for so long to be a squad player. Wharton, Magliore, Platt or Grayson could have made the numbers up as squad players.

Any player worth his salt know he has to work hard, it's what good professionals do. I don't think Bauer would be any different and if you know football like you purport to then you will know that no manager would guarantee a starting place. Sharpe saying this was a complete red herring in my book.

I have my own suspicions about what Mowbray thought he was going to get to spend and what he has in reality. In my opinion this is causing havoc with his A list of which I think Bauer was one.

[Bigdoggsteel]

I think it is fair to say that Mowbray thought we would sign Bauer. However, I don't see how him not signing indicates in any way anything about our budget 

[Paul Mani]

Just now, arbitro said:

I'm baffled by (arguably) Mowbray chasing a player for so long to be a squad player. Wharton, Magliore, Platt or Grayson could have made the numbers up as squad players.

Any player worth his salt know he has to work hard, it's what good professionals do. I don't think Bauer would be any different and if you know football like you purport to then you will know that no manager would guarantee a starting place. Sharpe saying this was a complete red herring in my book.

I have my own suspicions about what Mowbray thought he was going to get to spend and what he has in reality. In my opinion this is causing havoc with his A list of which I think Bauer was one.

Oh my god!!! ??? He isn’t ‘chasing a squad player’. He’s chasing a player who he likes and making it known to the player that they are not guaranteed to play if they do not perform / work hard. 

I have my own suspicions about the budget too btw...but there’s no suggestion here that the issue with Bauer was financial.

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Oh my god!!! ??? He isn’t ‘chasing a squad player’. He’s chasing a player who he likes and making it known to the player that they are not guaranteed to play if they do not perform / work hard. 

I have my own suspicions about the budget too btw...but there’s no suggestion here that the issue with Bauer was financial.

The issue for Bauer was personality of the manager and therefore the club.  Him talking about his reasons for joining Preston (Neil's youthful outlook, attacking style, 2 recent promotions, etc) are the very things Mowbray and Waggot don't offer.  Fair to say that a young lad needs to be enthused about where he's going to work.......I think Tony is just a generation to old for this

[arbitro]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Oh my god!!! ??? He isn’t ‘chasing a squad player’. He’s chasing a player who he likes and making it known to the player that they are not guaranteed to play if they do not perform / work hard. 

I have my own suspicions about the budget too btw...but there’s no suggestion here that the issue with Bauer was financial.

Is that not the definition of a squad player?

By the way the 'oh my God' line does you no favours. I don't mind disagreement and debate but in all honesty that comes across as condescending.

[Crimpshrine]

1 hour ago, unsall said:

That’s exactly right, he’s from league 1, now if a quality premier league player was signing I would think TM would put a different slant on matters.

Dack was a league 1 player - didn't turn out too badly!

[JHRover]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

The issue for Bauer was personality of the manager and therefore the club.  Him talking about his reasons for joining Preston (Neil's youthful outlook, attacking style, 2 recent promotions, etc) are the very things Mowbray and Waggot don't offer.  Fair to say that a young lad needs to be enthused about where he's going to work.......I think Tony is just a generation to old for this

I'm not sure the age issue is a factor. Warnock is in his 70s yet manages to put together a side to succeed and players buy into it.

I'm more of the view that sitting around a table with Ridsdale and Neil providing clarity, coherence and a proper offer and answers will have won the day over waiting for Mowbray to arrive back from India then having to wait for India to authorise any deal etc. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Lads, lads ,lads I think ye are getting bogged down on this squad player stuff. EVERY player we sign is a squad player. It is up to them to force their way into the starting 11.

Nobody should be guaranteed a starting place and I don't think any player could demand it

Edited June 26, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Vinjay]

57 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Is that a fact though? Bauer's comments on his Preston move suggested he needs to fight for his place there too.

Maybe the "king of Preston" comment was suggesting that Bauer would be happier at a smaller club with less pressure whereas coming to Ewood would be more intimidating. Some players are like that look at Kevin Davies and Per Frandsen both performed well at Bolton Wanderers but couldn't cope here. Davies probably couldn't have even tied his bootlaces right at the time.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Vinjay17

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

The issue for Bauer was personality of the manager and therefore the club.  Him talking about his reasons for joining Preston (Neil's youthful outlook, attacking style, 2 recent promotions, etc) are the very things Mowbray and Waggot don't offer.  Fair to say that a young lad needs to be enthused about where he's going to work.......I think Tony is just a generation to old for this

Except when Dack signed

 or Davenport

 or Chapman

or Armstrong 

or Brereton

  or Rothwell 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Oh my god!!! ??? He isn’t ‘chasing a squad player’. He’s chasing a player who he likes and making it known to the player that they are not guaranteed to play if they do not perform / work hard. 

I have my own suspicions about the budget too btw...but there’s no suggestion here that the issue with Bauer was financial.

Mowbray said he didnt think he was going to "force his way straight into the starting 11" which suggests that he would choose Williams or Mulgrew over him initially. The worry is that a player who obviously fit the criteria of Mowbrays need for defensive reinforcements was someone who the manager didnt see as instantly able to get his way into what was a horrendous defence last season. Either questions should be asked as to why hes chasing a player of that standard, or more likely that Mowbray is continuing to lack ruthlessness to drop quite a few players who have proven themselves unable to have the quality to push us on. This summer, we need players to improve the first team, not pad the squad out.

Obviously he would be expected to work hard, he would at Preston or anywhere for that matter.

You seem keen to make out as if Preston have promised him x, y and z but he made it clear in his interview (and Mowbray himself touched upon it) that he would have to battle to get into the team at Preston.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Lads, lads ,lads I think ye are getting bogged down on this squad player stuff. EVERY player we sign is a squad player. It is up to them to force their way into the starting 11.

Nobody should be guaranteed a starting place and I don't think any player could demand it

That goes without saying that selection depends on performance. But ultimately, last season basically all of our defenders proved that they arent capable of playing regular football if we have aspirations of pushing on. Our defensive record was shite. New defenders need to be of sufficient quality to improve the first team. Should this cause a rise in our existing players performance then brilliant but I would be bitterly dissapointed if the defence we put out v Charlton contains only players that were here last season. They arent good enough.

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Except when Dack signed

 or Davenport

 or Chapman

or Armstrong 

or Brereton

  or Rothwell 

Davenport - Who else wanted him, nobody knows how good he is.....

Chapman - Ditto

Armstrong - Fair enough knows Tony and probably got to know him as he is a nice man

Brereton - 7M that's all you need for that

Rothwell  - Were anyone else looking at him

If it's  straight choice between a few managers like Neil etc....Tony's dour approach and seemingly unconditional love for a few very average League 1 players is holding us back as a club.  Bauer should be a rovers player, no doubt

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

That goes without saying that selection depends on performance. But ultimately, last season basically all of our defenders proved that they arent capable of playing regular football if we have aspirations of pushing on. Our defensive record was shite. New defenders need to be of sufficient quality to improve the first team. Should this cause a rise in our existing players performance then brilliant but I would be bitterly dissapointed if the defence we put out v Charlton contains only players that were here last season. They arent good enough.

Ya for sure and that's why I hope we sign better than Bauer. It seemed to me that he was seen as a replacement for Downing in the squad. If Williams is now going to fill that role, then we definitely need a left back. The CB should be someone who will improve the starting 11, ideally the left back too. Neither would be guaranteed a starting place though and that's the way it should be. 

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya for sure and that's why I hope we sign better than Bauer. It seemed to me that he was seen as a replacement for Downing in the squad. If Williams is now going to fill that role, then we definitely need a left back. The CB should be someone who will improve the starting 11, ideally the left back too. Neither would be guaranteed a starting place though and that's the way it should be. 

If Williams is a starter then we are doomed from the start and he will be targeted.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Davenport - Who else wanted him, nobody knows how good he is.....

Chapman - Ditto

Armstrong - Fair enough knows Tony and probably got to know him as he is a nice man

Brereton - 7M that's all you need for that

Rothwell  - Were anyone else looking at him

If it's  straight choice between a few managers like Neil etc....Tony's dour approach and seemingly unconditional love for a few very average League 1 players is holding us back as a club.  Bauer should be a rovers player, no doubt

How do you work out that nobody knows how good Davenport is? He played half a season at Burton and got great reviews. 

Some players will like Mowbray more, some would prefer Neill. That's just life. 

It seems that whoever we sign, you have yourself convinced that nobody else wanted them.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

If Williams is a starter then we are doomed from the start and he will be targeted.

I said to fill Downings role. Downing wasn't a starter. 

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I said to fill Downings role. Downing wasn't a starter. 

everything is an argument with you, I'm just saying if Williams starts the season as our CH we are doomed.

[ben_the_beast]

Every player should be trying to impress in pre-season to start that first game. Nobody should be guaranteed a place. If Mulgrew looked the biz in the build up to game 1 I'd have no problem him starting. 

Issue is it doesn't seem as though it is a level playing field. If hypothetically Bauer was with us and looked a real deal I'm not sure he'd be given that same opportunity from the off.

Nobody should be guaranteed a starting place but players should be picked on form.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

everything is an argument with you, I'm just saying if Williams starts the season as our CH we are doomed.

I never said he should start though, so why are you telling me? I said he should take Downings role, as in a squad player. It's pretty simple. 

Lenihan should have a new CB partner on the opening day.