Summer Transfer Window 2019

[DE.]

Just now, JHRover said:

Liverpool more than happy to send him here for a season so he can play Championship football

If that's their plan they may want to have a rethink as we don't exactly have form for allowing young loan players to flourish. Hendrie, Byrne and Samuelsen barely got a look in during our relegation season. Harper and Payne didn't do a whole lot during our L1 campaign and Palmer was wasted last season and left after six months to go elsewhere.

Edited June 28, 2019 by DE.

[HowieFive0]

Just now, DE. said:

If that's their plan they may want to have a rethink as we don't exactly have form for allowing young loan players to flourish. Hendrie, Byrne and Samuelsen barely got a look in during our relegation season. Harper and Payne didn't do a whole lot during our L1 campaign and Palmer was wasted last season and left after six months to go elsewhere.

Not many flourish in this day and age at most clubs when out on loan. These kids are on top dollar and not playing for contracts  at these Premier League clubs that I think the drive and ambition to succeed for a lower club is instantly missing and below them. Again not too many success stories in the Championship ..not just at Rovers. 

I d rather go lower league and take a chance on them and let them earn a contract.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

24 minutes ago, tomphil said:

If the appointment of Coyle didn't confirm relegation in itself that above just about rubber stamped it, what an amateur outfit we'd become.

Appointing Coyle was the last straw for me. I cashed in my Rovers chips that day. I had nothing more to do with the club, this site etc until they fired him. For the first time in 60 years I'd had enough.  I must admit I felt a lot better for it,  between them they were doing my head in.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Dreams of 1995]

https://hobnob.royals.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=185967&hilit=ejaria&start=20

 

Reading seem keen to have him back. Mention he's not good enough to displace Dack - really??? - but a poster quite liked him out wide. Looks like he impressed there last year.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

https://hobnob.royals.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=185967&hilit=ejaria&start=20

 

Reading seem keen to have him back. Mention he's not good enough to displace Dack - really??? - but a poster quite liked him out wide. Looks like he impressed there last year.

Why are you surprised by that?? 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Why are you surprised by that?? 

It was a tongue in cheek. Like they have to specify he's not as good as Dack..........

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

It was a tongue in cheek. Like they have to specify he's not as good as Dack..........

Phew! ?

Went over my head, sorry 

[RoverCanada]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

As expected the link to a young midfielder on loan from a Premier League club's academy appears.

Cheap, easy, low risk and short term. Ticks all the boxes. 

Liverpool more than happy to send him here for a season so he can play Championship football and it avoids the need for us to commit to a fee or large wages. 

I wouldn't mind if it had ever worked for us but every time we do this it fails and we end up with the same faces in the team. Harper, Palmer, Samuelson, Byrne, Hendrie, Barrow, on it goes yet some get carried away because its Liverpool or City. 

News flash- our u23s are as good as theirs so if we're so keen to bring younger players in why not do it with our own rather than helping another club out?

On your last sentence, I agree that we shouldn't automatically assume a top-6 PL team's u23s are better than ours, but it's probably fair to assume someone like Ejaria, with 27 Championship games, 14 SPL games, and 11 Europa League games under his belt, (and Reading fans appear to have liked him) is a step up on, say, Buckley (no offence to Buckley!).

(Note I extend my thoughts below to all PL teams, not just the top 6...)

Perhaps a distinction is needed between bringing in a loan who already has some pro experience versus someone completely raw. King (20 years old when we brought him in on loan), Cairney (21), Gestede (24, so pushing it age-wise...), and Reed (23) all arguably fall under this category, and were all relatively successful loans, no? (Palmer a noted exception! But that may have been more lack of opportunity, as he was justifiably stuck behind Dack, than lack of ability). Your other examples were very raw (and perhaps then cheaper...)

Now, you obviously then need to debate on the merits of Ejaria's better ability to contribute this year versus someone like Buckley (keeping him as the counterfactual), the potential damage this could have on Buckley's development (assuming he is ready for Championship game time), the potential cost savings of bringing someone like Ejaria on loan (who we can quickly dump if he doesn't work out) versus spending a transfer fee and committing to a longer contract for another player (who may or may not work out), and the potential benefit of gaining an 'in' on him if he has a successful year with us and is keen to sign a permanent deal knowing he won't be getting in a PL team's lineup anytime soon, like Cairney or Gestede (or we deal with the disappointment of him subsequently being priced out of our budget, being recalled midseason, or subsequently earning PL game time, as was the case with Gallagher (21), Keane (21), and Lawrence (21), who did contribute while they were here, and may now be the case with Reed.)

Is it just me or has this debate about signing young PL players on loan been perpetually going around in circles? The costs, risks, and potential benefits are all relatively clear... it's just a matter of ones own preference on squad building, cost management, etc. It's not an idea that should be immediately dismissed (nor should it be assumed to be a guaranteed way of getting a solid starting player for a year, but only as part of a mixed transfer strategy)

Edited June 28, 2019 by RoverCanada

[philipl]

6 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

Our defensive issues will still be far from solved by signing just one centre back.

I am old enough to remember signing John McNamee.

A rubbish defence stabilised and grew around him.

All the Rovers defenders except Mulgrew are young or youngish so I am not writing any of them off unlike the rest of you. Stick a rock of a central defender in with them and I would bet on them and the rest of the team transforming.

[Oldgregg86]

3 hours ago, RoverCanada said:

On your last sentence, I agree that we shouldn't automatically assume a top-6 PL team's u23s are better than ours, but it's probably fair to assume someone like Ejaria, with 27 Championship games, 14 SPL games, and 11 Europa League games under his belt, (and Reading fans appear to have liked him) is a step up on, say, Buckley (no offence to Buckley!).

(Note I extend my thoughts below to all PL teams, not just the top 6...)

Perhaps a distinction is needed between bringing in a loan who already has some pro experience versus someone completely raw. King (20 years old when we brought him in on loan), Cairney (21), Gestede (24, so pushing it age-wise...), and Reed (23) all arguably fall under this category, and were all relatively successful loans, no? (Palmer a noted exception! But that may have been more lack of opportunity, as he was justifiably stuck behind Dack, than lack of ability). Your other examples were very raw (and perhaps then cheaper...)

Now, you obviously then need to debate on the merits of Ejaria's better ability to contribute this year versus someone like Buckley (keeping him as the counterfactual), the potential damage this could have on Buckley's development (assuming he is ready for Championship game time), the potential cost savings of bringing someone like Ejaria on loan (who we can quickly dump if he doesn't work out) versus spending a transfer fee and committing to a longer contract for another player (who may or may not work out), and the potential benefit of gaining an 'in' on him if he has a successful year with us and is keen to sign a permanent deal knowing he won't be getting in a PL team's lineup anytime soon, like Cairney or Gestede (or we deal with the disappointment of him subsequently being priced out of our budget, being recalled midseason, or subsequently earning PL game time, as was the case with Gallagher (21), Keane (21), and Lawrence (21), who did contribute while they were here, and may now be the case with Reed.)

Is it just me or has this debate about signing young PL players on loan been perpetually going around in circles? The costs, risks, and potential benefits are all relatively clear... it's just a matter of ones own preference on squad building, cost management, etc. It's not an idea that should be immediately dismissed (nor should it be assumed to be a guaranteed way of getting a solid starting player for a year, but only as part of a mixed transfer strategy)

Close the thread and get this man a biscuit.

very good post

[unsall]

4 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Appointing Coyle was the last straw for me. I cashed in my Rovers chips that day. I had nothing more to do with the club, this site etc until they fired him. For the first time in 60 years I'd had enough.  I must admit I felt a lot better for it,  between them they were doing my head in.

Jim Iley, Paul Ince, Steve Kean, Owen Coyle all crap managers, but I support the club through thick and thin, but accept everybody has their own opinions, personal choice COYB.

[tomphil]

But when we keep signing midfielders added to the abundance we have you know they aren't going to cement a regular place good or not i'm afraid.  More excuses to rotate when being terrified of different opposition styles and less chance of developing our own style.  Let's also not forget the managers obsession with strikers on the wings adding to the congestion/confusion.

Get some bloody defenders and strikers in loan or not and forget squad buffing midfielders.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, philipl said:

I am old enough to remember signing John McNamee.

A rubbish defence stabilised and grew around him.

All the Rovers defenders except Mulgrew are young or youngish so I am not writing any of them off unlike the rest of you. Stick a rock of a central defender in with them and I would bet on them and the rest of the team transforming.

Signing one centre back still leaves us with a goal keeper who costs us more points than he saves, 2 left back's that can't defend and a right back who can't defend and is shoehorned into the team over a decent young full back because the manager likes him. It's no good just signing a centre back and hoping he changes everything when you can see that there are areas the need addressing.

[Rover8T4]

Ejaria looks a no go in my eyes, Liverpool usually insert clauses that the player has to play so many games that season or a hefty fee, 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

33 minutes ago, philipl said:

I am old enough to remember signing John McNamee.

A rubbish defence stabilised and grew around him.

All the Rovers defenders except Mulgrew are young or youngish so I am not writing any of them off unlike the rest of you. Stick a rock of a central defender in with them and I would bet on them and the rest of the team transforming.

Everybody was scared of MacNamee, opponents and Rovers players alike. No way would Rodriguez have booted Raya in the head if Mac had have been playing. He'd have been eating his tea through a straw if he did !

[Exiled in Toronto]

38 minutes ago, philipl said:

I am old enough to remember signing John McNamee.

A rubbish defence stabilised and grew around him.

All the Rovers defenders except Mulgrew are young or youngish so I am not writing any of them off unlike the rest of you. Stick a rock of a central defender in with them and I would bet on them and the rest of the team transforming.

MacNamee transformed our team more than Shearer did imo. There should be a statue of the man at Ewood, preferably of him stamping on that forward when the ball was half a pitch away, or when he scored that screamer from the centre circle against high-riding Brighton.

[Mercer]

McNamee was a leader and a no nonsense commanding presence.  Everything we sadly lack at the moment.

Sadly, John is now affected by Alzheimer's and you do wonder if it's a similar 'industrial illness' to what Jeff Astle suffered.

Last I heard from someone who knew the family was that he was living in Cumbria.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Mercer

[AJW]

Thought he was going to Rangers ? Or have I got the wrong lad

[USABlue]

Another midfielder linked?  Does TM actually know our defence is crap?

[bboy]

Complete Guess but with Mowbrays love for the North East and Forrest sacking O'Neill today.

I wouldn't be surprised for us to go for jack Colback 

[JacknOry]

So just a quick drunken squipm through - nothing of muchness right?

[Butty]

13 minutes ago, bboy said:

Complete Guess but with Mowbrays love for the North East and Forrest sacking O'Neill today.

I wouldn't be surprised for us to go for jack Colback 

Replace one ginger ninja with another, don’t think Colback would be a terrible addition but we need two new defenders before anything else. The thought of Bell at left back and Williams/Mulgrew at centre half in the starting line up this season makes me want too projectile vomit. 

[bboy]

14 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

So just a quick drunken squipm through - nothing of muchness right?

Much like the other 249 pages of this thread! ?

[bboy]

Just now, Butty said:

Replace one ginger ninja with another, don’t think Colback would be a terrible addition but we need two new defenders before anything else. The thought of Bell at left back and Williams/Mulgrew at centre half in the starting line up this season makes me want too projectile vomit. 

Don't worry if we sign Colback i'd very much expect him to be square pegged into a round hole at Left back!

[Exiled_Rover]

10 hours ago, HowieFive0 said:

Not many flourish in this day and age at most clubs when out on loan. These kids are on top dollar and not playing for contracts  at these Premier League clubs that I think the drive and ambition to succeed for a lower club is instantly missing and below them. Again not too many success stories in the Championship ..not just at Rovers. 

I d rather go lower league and take a chance on them and let them earn a contract.

 

I don't think it's a lack of ambition and drive, it's a lack of talent.

We saw it with our Academy for years, it's incredibly difficult to produce Premier League quality youngsters. The standard is just so high. If these players were remotely good enough, their host clubs would play them in their first teams - they'd save an absolute bundle in transfer fees!