Summer Transfer Window 2019

[patrickvalery]

Be interesting to see the targets over the next few weeks. All this talk of investment in the recruitment department and so far we sign Downing and strongly linked with Gallagher. Both known to TM. That investment will need to yield some results to be justified in India. It pleased me to hear we were expanding our horizons a bit. But I do worry that we're only playing at it and when push comes to shove, we'll opt for the safe known quantities.

[Butty]

30 minutes ago, Mr. E said:

I'm not sure how anyone is acting as if what's happening right now isn't a complete total farce. Everyone associated with the club understood perfectly that we need 5-6 new players, a brand new defense, and all TM can do is stand there with his hands in his pockets mumbling "Well there I suppose it's a hard job bringing people in." Well it's your job. If you can't, move on and let someone else try. If Venkys are stopping you, be a man like Benitez and tell it how it is. We are less than 4 weeks away from kickoff and we have improved nothing.

Maybe he’s got his hands in his pockets and there’s nothing in there? Got a bad feeling The chicken farmers have turned the old money tap off... Again. You can’t really expect Mowbray too come out and say that either with the club desperately trying too shift season tickets. It’s shit it really is, we aren’t doing anything this season with this current squad. 

[JHRover]

Just now, patrickvalery said:

Be interesting to see the targets over the next few weeks. All this talk of investment in the recruitment department and so far we sign Downing and strongly linked with Gallagher. Both known to TM. That investment will need to yield some results to be justified in India. It pleased me to hear we were expanding our horizons a bit. But I do worry that we're only playing at it and when push comes to shove, we'll opt for the safe known quantities.

The problem that doesn't seem to have been factored into all the talk about improving recruitment and in particular this European scouting stuff is that everyone else does it. 

The way some people talk you'd think we're breaking new ground here by investing in recruitment and sending scouts to the continent. Every other club in the top two divisions and probably plenty below send people on scouting trips all over the world and invest heavily in it and have been doing for years.

So whilst better value for money can arguably be found in Europe, the reality is everyone is on the lookout and competing for the gems. You have to be armed with big money/helpful agents (Wolves, Forest) or be really good at it (Huddersfield, Norwich). We're neither. The fact it's taken 2 years of Mowbray's management to get to a stage where we're getting excited because someone, maybe Mowbray, went to watch a game in Holland a couple of months ago shows how far behind we are.

The club has been neglected for years in an attempt to save a few quid but the short-termism of that approach means we're now having to re-invest over a sustained period to even contemplate catching up to other Championship sides who all have this sort of thing in place and have done for years.

It was never needed/used from Bowyer onwards. Firstly because Bowyer's focus, rightly or wrongly, was on those players he had come across previously or were recommended by his dad/friends, and ever since then there has been no serious intention to utilise the European market for the benefit of the club.

What needs to happen, of course, is that we should have had a competent and empowered Director of Football who would oversee such a scouting operation and be tasked with ensuring we were delivering on that over a sustained period of time regardless of the man in the dugout on matchday. It seems Mowbray has taken that responsibility on himself but of course he should be focusing on coaching and matchday not overall recruitment. Recruitment is a never ending process that should exist partly in tandem with the manager but also be independent and continue when the manager leaves or gets sacked, which like it or not could happen at a moment's notice.

All in all we're about 5-10 years behind the times when it comes to the operation of things. We can get away with it so long as Mowbray continues to deliver good enough results to keep us going. After that i dread to imagine.

[JBiz]

Just now, JHRover said:

The problem that doesn't seem to have been factored into all the talk about improving recruitment and in particular this European scouting stuff is that everyone else does it. 

The way some people talk you'd think we're breaking new ground here by investing in recruitment and sending scouts to the continent. Every other club in the top two divisions and probably plenty below send people on scouting trips all over the world and invest heavily in it and have been doing for years.

So whilst better value for money can arguably be found in Europe, the reality is everyone is on the lookout and competing for the gems. You have to be armed with big money/helpful agents (Wolves, Forest) or be really good at it (Huddersfield, Norwich). We're neither. The fact it's taken 2 years of Mowbray's management to get to a stage where we're getting excited because someone, maybe Mowbray, went to watch a game in Holland a couple of months ago shows how far behind we are.

The club has been neglected for years in an attempt to save a few quid but the short-termism of that approach means we're now having to re-invest over a sustained period to even contemplate catching up to other Championship sides who all have this sort of thing in place and have done for years.

It was never needed/used from Bowyer onwards. Firstly because Bowyer's focus, rightly or wrongly, was on those players he had come across previously or were recommended by his dad/friends, and ever since then there has been no serious intention to utilise the European market for the benefit of the club.

What needs to happen, of course, is that we should have had a competent and empowered Director of Football who would oversee such a scouting operation and be tasked with ensuring we were delivering on that over a sustained period of time regardless of the man in the dugout on matchday. It seems Mowbray has taken that responsibility on himself but of course he should be focusing on coaching and matchday not overall recruitment. Recruitment is a never ending process that should exist partly in tandem with the manager but also be independent and continue when the manager leaves or gets sacked, which like it or not could happen at a moment's notice.

All in all we're about 5-10 years behind the times when it comes to the operation of things. We can get away with it so long as Mowbray continues to deliver good enough results to keep us going. After that i dread to imagine.

Precisely - I guess when you factor much of what TM has absorbed, it’s easy to see why many (like me) probably have a perceived bias or skewed view of his ability.

We've had to hit the reset switch. We didn’t even have a “chairman” in the UK till last September, FFS.

[Angry_Pirate]

Call me part of the minority, but I genuinely believe that Mowbray is the main problem within the transfer market and not Venkys failing at stumping up the cash. 

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Angry_Pirate said:

Call me part of the minority, but I genuinely believe that Mowbray is the main problem within the transfer market and not Venkys failing at stumping up the cash. 

It's also waggot.  He's not a likeable geezer, I dont know about you but if I dont like someone, i tend not to want to start working for/with them.  We need John Williams to seal the deals.

[unsall]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

It's also waggot.  He's not a likeable geezer, I dont know about you but if I dont like someone, i tend not to want to start working for/with them.  We need John Williams to seal the deals.

How do you know Waggot isn’t a likeable person, have you met him, or just have a feeling he isn’t likeable, everyone I’ve spoken to, who’s met him, say he’s a decent guy, met him myself, seems a decent guy who’s  trying to get the club back on track.

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, unsall said:

How do you know Waggot isn’t a likeable person, have you met him, or just have a feeling he isn’t likeable, everyone I’ve spoken to, who’s met him, say he’s a decent guy, met him myself, seems a decent guy who’s  trying to get the club back on track.

Just what I've heard mate and the evidence would suggest theres some reason Bauer chose a shitty pne over us after over a year of chasing. Must have been the sell of the plan

Edited July 2, 2019 by Sparks Rover

[SBlue]

43 minutes ago, JHRover said:

The problem that doesn't seem to have been factored into all the talk about improving recruitment and in particular this European scouting stuff is that everyone else does it. 

The way some people talk you'd think we're breaking new ground here by investing in recruitment and sending scouts to the continent. Every other club in the top two divisions and probably plenty below send people on scouting trips all over the world and invest heavily in it and have been doing for years.

So whilst better value for money can arguably be found in Europe, the reality is everyone is on the lookout and competing for the gems. You have to be armed with big money/helpful agents (Wolves, Forest) or be really good at it (Huddersfield, Norwich). We're neither. The fact it's taken 2 years of Mowbray's management to get to a stage where we're getting excited because someone, maybe Mowbray, went to watch a game in Holland a couple of months ago shows how far behind we are.

The club has been neglected for years in an attempt to save a few quid but the short-termism of that approach means we're now having to re-invest over a sustained period to even contemplate catching up to other Championship sides who all have this sort of thing in place and have done for years.

It was never needed/used from Bowyer onwards. Firstly because Bowyer's focus, rightly or wrongly, was on those players he had come across previously or were recommended by his dad/friends, and ever since then there has been no serious intention to utilise the European market for the benefit of the club.

What needs to happen, of course, is that we should have had a competent and empowered Director of Football who would oversee such a scouting operation and be tasked with ensuring we were delivering on that over a sustained period of time regardless of the man in the dugout on matchday. It seems Mowbray has taken that responsibility on himself but of course he should be focusing on coaching and matchday not overall recruitment. Recruitment is a never ending process that should exist partly in tandem with the manager but also be independent and continue when the manager leaves or gets sacked, which like it or not could happen at a moment's notice.

All in all we're about 5-10 years behind the times when it comes to the operation of things. We can get away with it so long as Mowbray continues to deliver good enough results to keep us going. After that i dread to imagine.

Fantastic post.

Illustrates a lot of my worry about being trigger happy with Mowbray. He’s running the gaff. He is trying to leave us better than he found us. That is rare and difficult to replace. 

Of course no one wants to see Evans and Smallwood in midfield etc., but unless I can see some evidence of a long term plan from the owners then I’m reluctantly happy to hold our own and hopefully continue to put some things in place in terms of infrastructure/youth development. 

[Fraserkirky]

10 hours ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

I think Bell improving was one of the missed stories of the final few months of last season, so I don't think left back is as much of a problem as I would've done last January. That said he's still not great, wouldn't be against brining in a replacement if one was available.

^^^ This 100%. 

[Mike E]

53 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Just what I've heard mate and the evidence would suggest theres some reason Bauer chose a shitty pne over us after over a year of chasing. Must have been the sell of the plan

So 'no evidence'. Excellent.

[unsall]

8 hours ago, Mr. E said:

I'm not sure how anyone is acting as if what's happening right now isn't a complete total farce. Everyone associated with the club understood perfectly that we need 5-6 new players, a brand new defense, and all TM can do is stand there with his hands in his pockets mumbling "Well there I suppose it's a hard job bringing people in." Well it's your job. If you can't, move on and let someone else try. If Venkys are stopping you, be a man like Benitez and tell it how it is. We are less than 4 weeks away from kickoff and we have improved nothing.

Someone else who thinks it’s 1995, unfortunately it isn’t and we are back to being a bog standard championship side, so we can’t just jump in and pay transfer fees regardless of price.

Mowbray has said he would love to get 5/6 in early, but with our budget you sometimes have to hold your nerve and wait till the price comes down, why not wait till 8th August and see who we have brought in and make a judgment then.

[The Axe]

The scouting at the club is an indicator of how far it has slumped and the perils of policy change and indecision. It had evolved over the years but particularly under Hughes and Allardyce so that Venky's inherited a good, modern system under Martyn Glover. When Anderson took charge of recruitment Glover left. The consequence was that when Mrs Desai worked out Anderson's strategy there was a complete breakdown in recruitment which was filled by agents making direct representations, a belief that Shebby had a power he did not have and finally Kean stepping in to the gap to bring in his own men. Strangely the only one who appeared to find this odd was Shebby who brought in Ray Clarke on the recommendations from contacts at Tottenham. Clarke was a proper chief scout but lost out because when Appleton was appointed he brought in his own scout Luke Dowling. It left the club with two chief scouts but Shaw and Agnew were too busy fighting Shebby to worry. Clarke left, Appleton and Dowling were sacked and the club drifted without a scouting system until Bowyer took a hand and brought in a long standing friend, Tommy Johnson. Johnson is a proper chief scout with all the files and knowledge and it was because of him that Bowyer brought in his successful signings. However Bowyer decided on a policy of young and British so the overseas element was neglected. However Johnson still maintained a presence and after Lambert and Coyle had used the old system of bringing in people they know, Coyle turned again to Johnson and had a handful of foreign players scouted and waiting to sign. Unfortunately the club then hired Paul Senior, who claimed to have files of thousands of players at his disposal. The result was that Johnson's recommendations were ignored and he walked. Senior disappeared almost as fast and after a delay the scouting was handed to Stuart Harvey, whose experience was scouting young players for Ards, Burnley and the Rovers. 

[Sparks Rover]

5 hours ago, Mike E said:

So 'no evidence'. Excellent.

Ok, I know someone who's been in with us looking to sign him.  He says that waggot is a pillock, and apparently this is well known.  Let's see how the signings pan out then eh? None at the moment with preseason starting on the weekend.....

Excellent stuff

[Mercer]

7 hours ago, Angry_Pirate said:

Call me part of the minority, but I genuinely believe that Mowbray is the main problem within the transfer market and not Venkys failing at stumping up the cash. 

I suspect this is a big part of the problem.

I think he is a 'ditherer' and also not ruthless enough (frightened to upset his current 'loyalists').

When he does finally make a move, I think his judgement is flawed and very severely at times.  I think it's very likely the ridiculous Brereton deal has hamstrung Rovers financially and cast serious doubt in the minds of the Venky's about Mowbray's ability to work the market. 

[Mercer]

7 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

It's also waggot.  He's not a likeable geezer, I dont know about you but if I dont like someone, i tend not to want to start working for/with them.  We need John Williams to seal the deals.

Never been convinced by Waggott.  IMO, he did not join us with a 'pedigree' nor could he be described as a dynamic 'up and coming'.  IMO, he has done very little to move Rovers forward and his decision to extend Mowbray's contract by a further 3 or 4 years was crass stupidity.

Sadly, I think John Williams' days as a CEO are over.  At his age, your hunger and touch disappear. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 hours ago, roverandout said:

If Maguire was Irish you would be calling him the next beckenbauer

No, that's nonsense, he clearly isn't that type of player. Have you ever seen a second of Beckenbauer play football? I doubt very much that you have.  I would probably compare him to someone like Stam , Vidic or Paul McGrath. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

7 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Just what I've heard mate and the evidence would suggest theres some reason Bauer chose a shitty pne over us after over a year of chasing. Must have been the sell of the plan

Yes, Bauer definitely chose not to sign because of Waggot. 100% that's the reason. You cracked the case. 

If we signed him you would be on saying we need better than players from league 1 ? One thing I will give you, you have a wide focus . Every angle covered 

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Yes, Bauer definitely chose not to sign because of Waggot. 100% that's the reason. You cracked the case. 

If we signed him you would be on saying we need better than players from league 1 ? One thing I will give you, you have a wide focus . Every angle covered 

No signings and how many days to preseason?  

Our management team are useless, poor unimaginative links in the market.  I hope something turns up mate, doubt it though. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

No signings and how many days to preseason?  

Our management team are useless, poor unimaginative links in the market.  I hope something turns up mate, doubt it though. 

I think we all agree on that. In fairness the management team aren't responsible for who we are linked with in the tabloids. Big few weeks coming up.....

 

[RoverKyle]

36 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Ok, I know someone who's been in with us looking to sign him.  He says that waggot is a pillock, and apparently this is well known.  Let's see how the signings pan out then eh? None at the moment with preseason starting on the weekend.....

Excellent stuff

And you're trying to lay it all on Waggott's feet because of the opinion of one person you know. Good that. 

[JBiz]

33 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Never been convinced by Waggott.  IMO, he did not join us with a 'pedigree' nor could he be described as a dynamic 'up and coming'.  IMO, he has done very little to move Rovers forward and his decision to extend Mowbray's contract by a further 3 or 4 years was crass stupidity.

Even you must’ve grinned through your teeth typing that. 

Others would call it common sense, since the previous 18 months of his tenure we’d only lost 1 home game, and he’d past all previous objectives of rebuilding a squad and pulling us back to this level.

In the real world (not agenda driven WUM street), his accomplishments would’ve made him a popular choice with many other chairman / clubs, hence why a deal to keep him longer made sense.

 

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

No signings and how many days to preseason?  

Our management team are useless, poor unimaginative links in the market.  I hope something turns up mate, doubt it though. 

You know that football / transfer business isn’t like a visit to the Londis don’t ye? I mean, if it was so simple and easy, wouldn’t all the championship clubs have finished their business already?

Edited July 3, 2019 by Biz

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, RoverKyle said:

And you're trying to lay it all on Waggott's feet because of the opinion of one person you know. Good that. 

Well Mowbray is running the clubs social media so I assume Waggott is dealing with transfers. 

What time is Tony tweeting pictures of the new kit today does anyone know? 

[Mercer]

Just now, Biz said:

Even you must’ve grinned through your teeth typing that. 

Others would call it common sense, since the previous 18 months of his tenure we’d only lost 1 home game, and he’d past all previous objectives of rebuilding a squad and pulling us back to this level.

In the real world (not agenda driven WUM street), his accomplishments would’ve made him a popular choice with many other chairman / clubs, hence why a deal to keep him longer made sense.

 

You know that football / transfer business isn’t like a visit to the Londis don’t ye? I mean, if it was so simple and easy, wouldn’t all the championship clubs have finished their business already?

Mowbray was brought in, in his own words at Blues, to keep us in the Championship that season.  He failed.

In two and a half years since Mowbray arrived, are we really that much better off or placed as a football club than when he arrived.  I think not. 

[JBiz]

Just now, Mercer said:

Mowbray was brought in, in his own words at Blues, to keep us in the Championship that season.  He failed.

In two and a half years since Mowbray arrived, are we really that much better off or placed as a football club than when he arrived.  I think not. 

A brief glance at the squad says otherwise.