Summer Transfer Window 2019

[gumboots]

We don't have Owen Coyle in charge

Edited July 3, 2019 by gumboots

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Mercer said:

Mowbray was brought in, in his own words at Blues, to keep us in the Championship that season.  He failed.

In two and a half years since Mowbray arrived, are we really that much better off or placed as a football club than when he arrived.  I think not. 

Yes, much better. I think anyone looking at things rationally can see that. 

[Mercer]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Yes, much better. I think anyone looking at things rationally can see that. 

We started off the 2016/17 season as a Championship club.

We finished 2018/19 season as a Championship club in 15th place with a need for some five additional players (again recognised by Mowbray at Blues) of some quality to make an impact.

No one, least of all our owners, can be satisfied with that.  It is hardly progress.

IMO, a decent manager:

• Would have kept us up in the first place in 2016/17.  After all we were relegated only on goal difference and as I have said before, I think Mowbray's tactics / game management cost us vital points that season with winning positions ending in draws and drawing positions ending in losses
• Having kept us up, used 2017/18 as a season to rebuild and put a stamp on the club in terms of a playing identity 
• Would have had us seriously challenging for a top six spot in 2018/19

Relegation in 2016/17 cost us, hugely, financially and to compound matters, I think Mowbray, in the main, spunked £10million+ away in the last window.  What a decent manager would have done with a combination of the financial losses owing to relegation and the £10million+ Mowbray had last summer.

 I think we are far, far away from challenging for promotion, we have no clear identity to our play (in fact at times I think it's dire <hoofball followed by more hoofball> and some on here had the temerity to criticise Big Sam) and our recruitment, apart from Dack and possibly Rothwell, has been poor.

If you are happy with that then you are very easily pleased.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Mercer

[MarkBRFC]

We are in a better postion overall to when he took over yes.

It's easy to forget what a bloody mess we were in when Mowbray joined, that period under Coyle was just rotten.

I do feel like we had to take a step back into league one to move the club forward, the club needed that season where we were winning most weeks, the fans reengaged with the side with some huge away followings to a lot of new places for many Rovers fans. It was a fantastic season to be a part of.

Again, very easy to say that "anyone" could have lead us to promotion that year, it's a very difficult job to turn around a side that was used to losing everyweek into winners, even though admittedly the standard of opposition was poor. Look at Sunderland last year, having the biggest budged doesn't always guarantee success.

Last season again was perfectly acceptable for what is was, finding our feet at that level again with some good runs and some bad.

Although I do like Mowbray and think he has done ok overall, he does infuriate me at times with his constant team medalling and playing people out of position, and also the fact that he has to shoehorn his favourites in there, I personally don't think he is the man to take us any further than where we are now. At Ewood last season you could turn up at half time and know you won't have missed anything.

The back four that lined up away at Burton for his first game were - Nyambe, Lenihan, Mulgrew & Williams. Nearly two and a half years later it's not ridiculous to think that could well be the defence that lines up against Charlton in a few weeks, and for me if he doesn't address it before then it is completely unacceptable.

Edited July 3, 2019 by MarkBRFC

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Mercer said:

We started off the 2016/17 season as a Championship club.

We finished 2018/19 season as a Championship club in 15th place with a need for some five additional players (again recognised by Mowbray at Blues) of some quality to make an impact.

No one, least of all our owners, can be satisfied with that.  It is hardly progress.

IMO, a decent manager:

• Would have kept us up in the first place in 2016/17.  After all we were relegated only on goal difference and as I have said before, I think Mowbray's tactics / game management cost us vital points that season with winning positions ending in draws and drawing positions ending in losses
• Having kept us up, used 2017/18 as a season to rebuild and put a stamp on the club in terms of a playing identity 
• Would have had us seriously challenging for a top six spot in 2018/19

Relegation in 2016/17 cost us, hugely, financially and to compound matters, I think Mowbray, in the main, spunked £10million+ away in the last window.  What a decent manager would have done with a combination of the financial losses owing to relegation and the £10million+ Mowbray had last summer.

 I think we are far, far away from challenging for promotion, we have no clear identity to our play (in fact at times I think it's dire <hoofball followed by more hoofball> and some on here had the temerity to criticise Big Sam) and our recruitment, apart from Dack and possibly Rothwell, has been poor.

If you are happy with that then you are very easily pleased.

If you think we were in a better position as a club before Mowbray took over, fair enough. I don't know how anyone could think that, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, Mercer said:

We started off the 2016/17 season as a Championship club.

We finished 2018/19 season as a Championship club in 15th place with a need for some five additional players (again recognised by Mowbray at Blues) of some quality to make an impact.

No one, least of all our owners, can be satisfied with that.  It is hardly progress.

IMO, a decent manager:

• Would have kept us up in the first place in 2016/17.  After all we were relegated only on goal difference and as I have said before, I think Mowbray's tactics / game management cost us vital points that season with winning positions ending in draws and drawing positions ending in losses
• Having kept us up, used 2017/18 as a season to rebuild and put a stamp on the club in terms of a playing identity 
• Would have had us seriously challenging for a top six spot in 2018/19

Relegation in 2016/17 cost us, hugely, financially and to compound matters, I think Mowbray, in the main, spunked £10million+ away in the last window.  What a decent manager would have done with a combination of the financial losses owing to relegation and the £10million+ Mowbray had last summer.

 I think we are far, far away from challenging for promotion, we have no clear identity to our play (in fact at times I think it's dire <hoofball followed by more hoofball> and some on here had the temerity to criticise Big Sam) and our recruitment, apart from Dack and possibly Rothwell, has been poor.

If you are happy with that then you are very easily pleased.

That is the only part of that post that makes a bit of sense. Maybe a manager of the ilk of Warnock would have got us up with £10m. However, we don't have him, we have Mowbray and for the large part we are in a hugely better situation than we were in when he came. If you can't see that then that's your rotten luck.

The rest of your post is way off the mark but that's probably because you have an irrational dislike of all things Mowbray.

[Mercer]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

If you think we were in a better position as a club before Mowbray took over, fair enough. I don't know how anyone could think that, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. 

Did I say that?

My point is that under Mowbray we have barely progressed from the beginning of the 2016/17 season.  

In fact in 2015/16 we finished 15th in the Championship in exactly the same place as we finished in 2018/19.

IMO, three wasted years where the club, at best, has stood still and for 80%+ of the time Mowbray has been manager.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Mercer said:

Did I say that?

My point is that under Mowbray we have barely progressed from the beginning of the 2016/17 season.  

In fact in 2015/16 we finished 15th in the Championship in exactly the same place as we finished in 2018/19.

IMO, three wasted years where the club, at best, has stood still and for 80%+ of the time Mowbray has been manager.

Yes. Your quote is below. 

"In two and a half years since Mowbray arrived, are we really that much better off or placed as a football club than when he arrived.  I think not. " 

 

[Mercer]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

That is the only part of that post that makes a bit of sense. Maybe a manager of the ilk of Warnock would have got us up with £10m. However, we don't have him, we have Mowbray and for the large part we are in a hugely better situation than we were in when he came. If you can't see that then that's your rotten luck.

The rest of your post is way off the mark but that's probably because you have an irrational dislike of all things Mowbray.

We finish 2015/16 in 15th in Championship, we get relegated in 2016/17 on goal difference with Mowbray as manager when he was brought in to keep us up and we finish 2018/19 in 15th in Championship (precisely where we were 3 years ago).

If you are happy with that then fine.

I think Mowbray's brand of football that I see with Rovers is dire.  I can't see a pattern of play or a playing identity emerging.  I think his tactics and game management are very poor.  IMO, his player trading apart from Dack and possibly Rothwell is very poor.  I think he talks a good game (as at Blues back in Feb) but fails to deliver.

As a football manager, IMO, Mowbray is not delivering for Rovers and we are going nowhere with him.  That is my view and why I will not be buying season tickets for either family or business use whilst he remains in charge. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

[Mercer]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Yes. Your quote is below. 

"In two and a half years since Mowbray arrived, are we really that much better off or placed as a football club than when he arrived.  I think not. " 

 

Correct!!! 

You said:

"If you think we were in a better position as a club before Mowbray took over, fair enough. I don't know how anyone could think that, but everyone is entitled to their opinion". 

There is a difference between the two statements.  Where did I say we were in a better position BEFORE Mowbray took over?

Please get your facts right before having a go at me.

[tomphil]

WE are batting now from a position of strength compared to when Mowbray took over and a lot of it is down to him it's churlish to think otherwise however you rate him.

That though makes it even more annoying when he seems so reluctant to drive it forwards instead seemingly preferring an old Ray Harford mantra 'If it ain't broke why try and fix it'.  How much of it is actually down to him is debateable but I reckon quite a bit although the club as a whole somewhat failed to tap into the feel good factor after promotion.

They lit the blue touch paper, stood back then jumped forwards and stamped it out before it got chance to take off. A club like Rovers needs a spark under it now and again then the flames need fanning otherwise it just smoulders and never quite catches fire.

[philipl]

I'd bring in Adams- always enjoyed watching him.

Mowbray et al will need to get him fitter than he was last year at Stoke but as an impact sub he can score from distance-  a threat we simply didn't have last year.

On another front, been reading Brentford fans besides themselves in desperation to sign Raya. Quite simply for me, he doesn't leave unless we have a markedly better keeper in the bag.

Sod the Championship Manager game players on this site. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Mercer said:

Correct!!! 

You said:

"If you think we were in a better position as a club before Mowbray took over, fair enough. I don't know how anyone could think that, but everyone is entitled to their opinion". 

There is a difference between the two statements.  Where did I say we were in a better position BEFORE Mowbray took over?

Please get your facts right before having a go at me.

Here, below. You literally said exactly that. Anyway, done with this conversation. 

"In two and a half years since Mowbray arrived, are we really that much better off or placed as a football club than when he arrived.  I think not. " 

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Mercer said:

Please get your facts right before having a go at me.

He's like this all day long. Must have a shyte job.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

He's like this all day long. Must have a shyte job.

Do you even have one? 

[Dreams of 1995]

1 minute ago, Mercer said:

We finish 2015/16 in 15th in Championship, we get relegated in 2016/17 on goal difference with Mowbray as manager when he was brought in to keep us up and we finish 2018/19 in 15th in Championship (precisely where we were 3 years ago).

If you are happy with that then fine.

I think Mowbray's brand of football that I see with Rovers is dire.  I can't see a pattern of play or a playing identity emerging.  I think his tactics and game management are very poor.  IMO, his player trading apart from Dack and possibly Rothwell is very poor.  I think he talks a good game (as at Blues back in Feb) but fails to deliver.

As a football manager, IMO, Mowbray is not delivering for Rovers and we are going nowhere with him.  That is my view and why I will not be buying season tickets for either family or business use whilst he remains in charge. 

Nope, you aren't applying context. We were on a downward decline by 2015 and by the time Mowbray came in we were up against it with both the team available to us and points requirement to stay up. So whilst we are back to that point is it not more of a positive that Mowbray is restoring us. Year upon year he has finished higher. Last season we didn't even flirt with relegation in our first year back, whereas Wigan and Rotherham were down there throughout the year.

Our squad is also better than when he came in. We have a good, young squad with plenty of resale value if they hit the peaks they are tipped to do.

On our books we have regular england youth internationals and some great experience. We have seen a few of the U23s coming through and the increased role of Damien Johnson in the first team squad is only going to improve on that. Mowbray has done great work behind the scenes fixing the mess he inherited after the damage "quick fix solutions" have done over the years. Finally we have a bit of stability manager wise, who has genuine care for the club beyond a stepping stone to the next, and you are chastising him because we didn't reach play offs last season, or because we don't pass the ball like Barca? In fact, Mowbray has spoken about wanting to play more possession football and for all I can see he's trying to improve that side of our squad.

Your last sentence backs up my point entirely about your irrational hated of Mowbray. It's your own choice to buy or not to buy but quite frankly if you are choosing to stay away based on the reasons given then I'd suggest it goes above a dislike of Mowbray, and more a convenient excuse. There's no way on Earth anybody can justify boycotting the club based on TM if they were going in the years of Venkys (Lambert, Coyle, etc). Ludicrous. 

[Mercer]

17 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Yes. Your quote is below. 

"In two and a half years since Mowbray arrived, are we really that much better off or placed as a football club than when he arrived.  I think not. " 

 

Where does that say we are WORSE off !?!?

[briansol]

30 minutes ago, Mercer said:

We started off the 2016/17 season as a Championship club.

We finished 2018/19 season as a Championship club in 15th place with a need for some five additional players (again recognised by Mowbray at Blues) of some quality to make an impact.

No one, least of all our owners, can be satisfied with that.  It is hardly progress.

IMO, a decent manager:

• Would have kept us up in the first place in 2016/17.  After all we were relegated only on goal difference and as I have said before, I think Mowbray's tactics / game management cost us vital points that season with winning positions ending in draws and drawing positions ending in losses
• Having kept us up, used 2017/18 as a season to rebuild and put a stamp on the club in terms of a playing identity 
• Would have had us seriously challenging for a top six spot in 2018/19

Relegation in 2016/17 cost us, hugely, financially and to compound matters, I think Mowbray, in the main, spunked £10million+ away in the last window.  What a decent manager would have done with a combination of the financial losses owing to relegation and the £10million+ Mowbray had last summer.

 I think we are far, far away from challenging for promotion, we have no clear identity to our play (in fact at times I think it's dire <hoofball followed by more hoofball> and some on here had the temerity to criticise Big Sam) and our recruitment, apart from Dack and possibly Rothwell, has been poor.

If you are happy with that then you are very easily pleased.

Some fact about the relegation in 16/17 and Mowbray:

- Mowbray took the helm in February 22, with a squad inherited from Coyle and a closed transfer window. We had 29 points from 31 games at that time. Under Mowbray we took 22 points from remaining 15 games averaging 1.5 point pr game which would equal a 69 point total over a whole season. I struggle to see which "decent" manager who could do much better.

- I don't think Mowbray is perfect. He is far too loyal against the current players, conservative in the transfer market. But he has brought stability to the club, a squad that wants to play for the club, youngsters coming through, and established ourselves a mid-table side again. In addition he has the trust of the owners which we know is critical. I want to see us progress further under Mowbray.

And who could you realisticly replace him with?  Berg, Appleton, Coyle proves it's far more likely to get it wrong than right. 

It's fine to want more and for us to better, but we are a mid-table sized club with mid-table resources. Realisticly we will end mid-table unless we can overperform.

[Mercer]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

Nope, you aren't applying context. We were on a downward decline by 2015 and by the time Mowbray came in we were up against it with both the team available to us and points requirement to stay up. So whilst we are back to that point is it not more of a positive that Mowbray is restoring us. Year upon year he has finished higher. Last season we didn't even flirt with relegation in our first year back, whereas Wigan and Rotherham were down there throughout the year.

Our squad is also better than when he came in. We have a good, young squad with plenty of resale value if they hit the peaks they are tipped to do.

On our books we have regular england youth internationals and some great experience. We have seen a few of the U23s coming through and the increased role of Damien Johnson in the first team squad is only going to improve on that. Mowbray has done great work behind the scenes fixing the mess he inherited after the damage "quick fix solutions" have done over the years. Finally we have a bit of stability manager wise, who has genuine care for the club beyond a stepping stone to the next, and you are chastising him because we didn't reach play offs last season, or because we don't pass the ball like Barca? In fact, Mowbray has spoken about wanting to play more possession football and for all I can see he's trying to improve that side of our squad.

Your last sentence backs up my point entirely about your irrational hated of Mowbray. It's your own choice to buy or not to buy but quite frankly if you are choosing to stay away based on the reasons given then I'd suggest it goes above a dislike of Mowbray, and more a convenient excuse. There's no way on Earth anybody can justify boycotting the club based on TM if they were going in the years of Venkys (Lambert, Coyle, etc). Ludicrous. 

We all have different opinions - would be a poor and boring world if we didn't.

As for boycotting the club - did I say that?  Nope. 

I do not need a 'convenient excuse' not to buy season tickets.  It's my money, I earn it and spend it as I see fit. 

I went to about a dozen matches last season (home and away) and in the main did not really enjoy the football at all (there is also a social / business aspect).  I want to be entertained and see some decent football and some evidence of progress.  

Edited July 3, 2019 by Mercer

[OssyLad]

Just a quick question how many of you have season tickets?

[Admiral Nelsen]

23 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Correct!!! 

You said:

"If you think we were in a better position as a club before Mowbray took over, fair enough. I don't know how anyone could think that, but everyone is entitled to their opinion". 

There is a difference between the two statements.  Where did I say we were in a better position BEFORE Mowbray took over?

Please get your facts right before having a go at me.

One way in which we're better off is that we actually own our best players! If we had stayed up in our relegation season, it would've been off the back of loans and players with no saleable value. Our squad isn't there yet, but it was an absolute empty vessel when he took charge. 

As you say, game of opinions, but the measures of success that we use need to be selective in the extreme if we're saying that we haven't progressed under Mowbray. 

[RoverCanada]

13 hours ago, Scotland1 said:

 

@RoverCanada is probably the best at explaining!

 

13 hours ago, Biz said:

Basically - a 2million pound deal might sound cheap on the basis the lad you’re signing is decent, but if he’s on 2m a year or 40k per week, and the club selling don’t want to honour his 3/4 years costing 6/8m + NI/tax etc - you’ll likely take a reduced fee to save long term running costs! 

Haha, happy to hand off my usual hectoring about the relative importance of wages over transfer fees to Biz this time!

Edited July 3, 2019 by RoverCanada

[Glosrover]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Yes, much better. I think anyone looking at things rationally can see that. 

 

Just now, Admiral Nelsen said:

One way in which we're better off is that we actually own our best players! If we had stayed up in our relegation season, it would've been off the back of loans and players with no saleable value. Our squad isn't there yet, but it was an absolute empty vessel when he took charge. 

As you say, game of opinions, but the measures of success that we use need to be selective in the extreme if we're saying that we haven't progressed under Mowbray. 

 

29 minutes ago, tomphil said:

WE are batting now from a position of strength compared to when Mowbray took over and a lot of it is down to him it's churlish to think otherwise however you rate him.

That though makes it even more annoying when he seems so reluctant to drive it forwards instead seemingly preferring an old Ray Harford mantra 'If it ain't broke why try and fix it'.  How much of it is actually down to him is debateable but I reckon quite a bit although the club as a whole somewhat failed to tap into the feel good factor after promotion.

They lit the blue touch paper, stood back then jumped forwards and stamped it out before it got chance to take off. A club like Rovers needs a spark under it now and again then the flames need fanning otherwise it just smoulders and never quite catches fire.

All very interesting and worthy of a debate, but maybe the Mods need to be redirecting this stuff into a Tony Mowbray 'any good or not' thread ?

- I think the one being hijacked is supposed to be about the summer transfer window.......

[bigbrandjohn]

25 minutes ago, Glosrover said:

At this rate of page filling we will be up to 333 without any major transfer news  

So let’s go totally off topic and watch Graham Gooch magic innings of 333 while we wait for some news. 

 

25 minutes ago, Glosrover said:

 

All very interesting and worthy of a debate, but maybe the Mods need to be redirecting this stuff into a Tony Mowbray 'any good or not' thread ?

- I think the one being hijacked is supposed to be about the summer transfer window.......