Summer Transfer Window 2019

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

2 hours ago, J*B said:

Just texted a good friend that tends to know about this sort of thing... direct response below:

Rovers transfer policy is chaos.

They have lost control and now going back to targets they considered last year.

Mowbray wanted to stay calm and wait until deadline day to get his #1 targets but Venky's are panicking and saying that money needs to be spent ASAP to avoid not getting players on deadline day.

Assombalonga one of many being contacted.

Rovers transfer policy has been chaos for a long time now. 

Hypothesising -

Tony goes with targets from A list.  These will get us challenging top 6 but will cost £25 mil. 

Venkys say:  we will fund that. 

Tony then says that my B list I can get for less than £10 mil and they will also get us challenging the top 6. 

Venkys say: ok - do that then.

Venkys enquire half way through the window how the targets are going. 

None of the B list have signed as the reality is, at the moment, their cost is nearer £15-£20 mil.  Tony says he might be able to get them if we wait.

Venkys are confused.  They look at the fixtures in August.  They think about being told of the benefits of buying players with time to bed in. They think about missing targets last year on deadline day.  They want promotion.  They think that buying the A list players isn't that much more in reality (to them),  will get us top 6 (so they were told) and they were  happy to fund that anyway.  They tell Tony to forget the B list and go for the A.  

Tony and Waggott feel a little hot  under the collar at having to deliver (and the affordability aspects of delivering ) the A list.  Not to mention the pressure on cracking the top 6. 

It's not the model they wanted to follow.  They aren't comfy with it. 

Result is Rovers transfer policy ends up in tatters and we end up with one expensive player.

It would fit in with the last 12 months of being told money available but we want to get "value". 

Moral of the story.  Rich people can afford the A list.  Don't show them that and expect them to be happy with a B or C list.

[Butty]

41 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Rovers transfer policy has been chaos for a long time now. 

Hypothesising -

Tony goes with targets from A list.  These will get us challenging top 6 but will cost £25 mil. 

Venkys say:  we will fund that. 

Tony then says that my B list I can get for less than £10 mil and they will also get us challenging the top 6. 

Venkys say: ok - do that then.

Venkys enquire half way through the window how the targets are going. 

None of the B list have signed as the reality is, at the moment, their cost is nearer £15-£20 mil.  Tony says he might be able to get them if we wait.

Venkys are confused.  They look at the fixtures in August.  They think about being told of the benefits of buying players with time to bed in. They think about missing targets last year on deadline day.  They want promotion.  They think that buying the A list players isn't that much more in reality (to them),  will get us top 6 (so they were told) and they were  happy to fund that anyway.  They tell Tony to forget the B list and go for the A.  

Tony and Waggott feel a little hot  under the collar at having to deliver (and the affordability aspects of delivering ) the A list.  Not to mention the pressure on cracking the top 6. 

It's not the model they wanted to follow.  They aren't comfy with it. 

Result is Rovers transfer policy ends up in tatters and we end up with one expensive player.

It would fit in with the last 12 months of being told money available but we want to get "value". 

Moral of the story.  Rich people can afford the A list.  Don't show them that and expect them to be happy with a B or C list.

You honestly think our owners would give the okay on spending 25 million on new players? ?

[Sparks Rover]

49 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Rovers transfer policy has been chaos for a long time now. 

Hypothesising -

Tony goes with targets from A list.  These will get us challenging top 6 but will cost £25 mil. 

Venkys say:  we will fund that. 

Tony then says that my B list I can get for less than £10 mil and they will also get us challenging the top 6. 

Venkys say: ok - do that then.

Venkys enquire half way through the window how the targets are going. 

None of the B list have signed as the reality is, at the moment, their cost is nearer £15-£20 mil.  Tony says he might be able to get them if we wait.

Venkys are confused.  They look at the fixtures in August.  They think about being told of the benefits of buying players with time to bed in. They think about missing targets last year on deadline day.  They want promotion.  They think that buying the A list players isn't that much more in reality (to them),  will get us top 6 (so they were told) and they were  happy to fund that anyway.  They tell Tony to forget the B list and go for the A.  

Tony and Waggott feel a little hot  under the collar at having to deliver (and the affordability aspects of delivering ) the A list.  Not to mention the pressure on cracking the top 6. 

It's not the model they wanted to follow.  They aren't comfy with it. 

Result is Rovers transfer policy ends up in tatters and we end up with one expensive player.

It would fit in with the last 12 months of being told money available but we want to get "value". 

Moral of the story.  Rich people can afford the A list.  Don't show them that and expect them to be happy with a B or C list.

Moral of the story, don't use drugs kids

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

4 hours ago, Butty said:

You honestly think our owners would give the okay on spending 25 million on new players? ?

No - but you can adjust the figures to whatever works for you.  There will always be variables in a hypothesis ?

Edited July 4, 2019 by Wing Wizard Windy Miller

[JHRover]

9 hours ago, JacknOry said:

We keep hearing this that Venkies want to spend but TM wants to be calm. Somewhere in the middle would do me.

As for Assombalonga...again. Can anyone really see it happening? He would need to take at least a 10k pw pay cut,  and the fee will be at least 10+.

Wouldnt say no of course, he is a proven goalscorer at this level but id rather take that 10 million and spend the vast majority on defence.

 

If that's correct then it appears there is an unprecedented situation where the owners of the club want to spend and make good signings and the manager is reluctant.

I don't believe that is the case as it would make Mowbray a managerial freak, and it would mean Venkys want to spend which I don't believe.

But if it is true then the owners need to make a decision. No way would any normal club or owners tolerate that.

[MarkBRFC]

10 hours ago, J*B said:

Just texted a good friend that tends to know about this sort of thing... direct response below:

Rovers transfer policy is chaos.

They have lost control and now going back to targets they considered last year.

Mowbray wanted to stay calm and wait until deadline day to get his #1 targets but Venky's are panicking and saying that money needs to be spent ASAP to avoid not getting players on deadline day.

Assombalonga one of many being contacted.

This just sounds ridiculous, I can't get my head around Venkys knowing there is a transfer deadline day coming up.

if it's true we wouldn't pay Assombalonga's wages in January, we certainly won't now.

I wonder what those lads "watching numerous tapes in the back of the building somewhere" are doing now if we are just going back to old targets.

What an odd setup ?

[JHRover]

9 hours ago, Pepsi Max Cherry said:

Even if Venky’s are gonna splash the cash I’m sure Tony just like myself will be worried about FFP. I’d much rather us play it safe and not suffer a punishment further down the line. Our squad is quite strong, Chapman especially will be like a new signing. If we could loan a decent centre half I’d be happy with that.

It doesn't matter, or at least shouldn't, what Tony wants. The owners decide on the target and the funding and employ a manager to deliver on it. If Mowbray is uncomfortable or unhappy with that or FFP concerns then get a manager who isn't. 

[JBiz]

Just now, JHRover said:

It doesn't matter, or at least shouldn't, what Tony wants. The owners decide on the target and the funding and employ a manager to deliver on it. If Mowbray is uncomfortable or unhappy with that or FFP concerns then get a manager who isn't. 

Like Kean you mean?

In your readiness to believe anything that makes TM look bad, have you considered that the people supposedly telling the owners to spend, potentially have their own players/agencies/pockets in mind?

Its not like it’s happened before...

And as for overspending then paying the price if you don't go up quickly.. it’s almost as if you’re ignoring that element of our recent history and trouble on purpose.

[Angry_Pirate]

Just now, JHRover said:

If that's correct then it appears there is an unprecedented situation where the owners of the club want to spend and make good signings and the manager is reluctant.

For what it's worth that's exactly what I've heard from a few people who work at Rovers... as far back as January. 

Think of the pressure surrounding the Brereton deal... the manager (possibly) knows a big window will increase expectation and there are only so many £2-£8m players he can keep on his bench behind Bennett, Williams, Evans, Smallwood etc.

Ironically, by spending money, TM (thinks he) is actually increasing the odds of getting sacked as a result of it... he's probably right. I don't expect him to see past December if I'm being honest/hopeful. Spend or especially no spend.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, JHRover said:

If that's correct then it appears there is an unprecedented situation where the owners of the club want to spend and make good signings and the manager is reluctant.

I don't believe that is the case as it would make Mowbray a managerial freak, and it would mean Venkys want to spend which I don't believe.

But if it is true then the owners need to make a decision. No way would any normal club or owners tolerate that.

It doesn't sound that far fetched to me. Weren't we told at about this time last summer by unsall who seems to have good inside knowledge that Venky's had offered Mowbray a decent budget and he'd turned it down saying he didn't want that much. Then when we got towards the end of the window and nothing much had happened, there seemed to be a complete sea change and proceedings descended into chaos and panic as huge amounts were offered for Freeman and Brereton.

I was also told by a source I respect that there was £20m available for Mowbray in January if he wanted it (which seemingly he didn't).

Mowbray does seem to be extremely unusual as far as managers go in that he seems far more interested In not upsetting his existing players than in bringing in new players who might replace them. Any other manager would probably chop their arms and legs off to bring in players better than the ones they already have.

[JBiz]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Mowbray does seem to be extremely unusual as far as managers go in that he seems far more interested In not upsetting his existing players than in bringing in new players who might replace them. Any other manager would probably chop their arms and legs off to bring in players better than the ones they already have.

That’s assumed and pretty much a fantasy in my opinion.

[JBiz]

“Sorry Lionel, I know you want to come, we can afford you, and the wage fits - I just don’t like you as much as Dack”

Tony Mowbray (2019)

[Mattyblue]

What isn’t fantasy is that Mowbray is on record saying that he had to hold Venky’s back on spending. Can’t say I’ve ever heard a manager anywhere say such things.

This latest ITK tidbit from J*B only adds to the seemingly very odd set up at this club.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Mattyblue

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Biz said:

That’s assumed and pretty much a fantasy in my opinion.

Call it what you like. It's an opinion just as yours is and nothing has actually happened in the last two and a half transfer windows to contradict that point of view.

if you have any actual evidence to the contrary please share.

[JHRover]

Just now, Biz said:

Like Kean you mean?

In your readiness to believe anything that makes TM look bad, have you considered that the people supposedly telling the owners to spend, potentially have their own players/agencies/pockets in mind?

Its not like it’s happened before...

And as for overspending then paying the price if you don't go up quickly.. it’s almost as if you’re ignoring that element of our recent history and trouble on purpose.

Just imagine if the Arabs had turned up at Man City and Mark Hughes had turned around and told them not to spend because he preferred a slow build and didn't want to risk anything. Same with Ranieri at Chelsea.

Owners decide what happens and what the budget is. Manager delivers it. It isn't the managers job to tell them to put the brakes on or spend less. 

[JBiz]

Just now, JHRover said:

Just imagine if the Arabs had turned up at Man City and Mark Hughes had turned around and told them not to spend because he preferred a slow build and didn't want to risk anything. Same with Ranieri at Chelsea.

Owners decide what happens and what the budget is. Manager delivers it. It isn't the managers job to tell them to put the brakes on or spend less. 

Do you not see a difference between our current scenario and their initial takeovers?

Depending on what you believe - our owners are already down the pan 150m due to “advice”. There’s no way they’re suddenly the experts, and if the rumours are true of them wanting to do spend again - doesn’t that fill you with dread? 

It certainly doesn’t fill me with expectation of them knowing what to do, or “caring” about us.

I am quite sure that TM has kept budgets back, however there’s a difference between that and refusing to spend.

Why are people so ready to believe the owners and their perceived “good” intentions over a bloke we’ve actually watched do some good?

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by Biz

[JHRover]

Just now, Biz said:

Do you not see a difference between our current scenario and their initial takeovers?

Depending on what you believe - our owners are already down the pan 150m due to “advice”. There’s no way they’re suddenly the experts, and if the rumours are true of them wanting to do spend again - doesn’t that fill you with dread? 

It certainly doesn’t fill be with expectation of them knowing what to do or “caring” about us.

I am quite sure that TM has kept budgets back, however there’s a difference between that and refusing to spend.

Why are people so ready to believe the owners and their perceived “good” intentions over a bloke we’ve actually watched do some good?

 

They've been here for 9 years and have apparently spent almost 150 million since being here. If they still need help they must be slow learners. Many owners with no previous involvement in football learn how it works in much less time for a lot less money.

Fact is at no club should the manager be guiding the owners. The manager is a short term employee who delivers results. 

I think you'll find I wouldn't trust these owners as far as I could throw them and think they are con men. I do trust Mowbray but he has numerous faults.

I'm just pointing out the potentially ludicrous situation being suggested where the owners can and want to spend yet their employees are supposedly stopping that.

[JBiz]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Call it what you like. It's an opinion just as yours is and nothing has actually happened in the last two and a half transfer windows to contradict that point of view.

if you have any actual evidence to the contrary please share.

Actual evidence? Or do you mean like the rumour you based your input on?

 

[Tom Stinny]

From what I understand about the situation at the club. You can't really paint the manager in a great light

 

There's the fact that he came out just before the window and said he wants to strengthen the defence and bring in fresh exciting signings and has since retracted on the defence being an issue which certainly makes me question his honesty or his suitability to progress the side.

 

There's then the situation in January where speaking for myself, I said he needed to spend the money if it was available because being a handful of points away from 6th was a position which would be difficult to get into again. Instead no one was signed and we went on a run which to me should have sacked the manager, 3 points out of 30+ wasn't it? 

 

Again if the manager is being offered high amounts to spend and he's choosing not to spend it then I'd ask why? He might not be here come December so why is it so comfortable to think it's alright I'll bring in a few lower standard players to bulk up the squad and we go again. It's a cut throat industry he should be begging for every peny to improve the team in anyway possible. 

 

Also, Raya is being used as a scapegoat because it's easier to deal with a younger less experienced player than a Scotland international who couldn't defend in league 1 but can take a decent free kick. Rovers should invent a role where they can have role on role off subs and just bring him on for set pieces. 

 

People on here who claim that everyone complains to much remember that the club are trying to shift season tickets, it's convenient that we are going to make quality signings as the tickets are released for sale. Supporters are being taken for mugs and if you want to sit there being a mug then happy clap along.

 

Just need bowyer back now. Maybe he's already here in disguise.

[Mattyblue]

‘Keeping budgets back’ is a very risky business at this club as these owners quickly change tack. 

Think back to the optimism around 2014,  and then a year later anybody worth selling had gone.

’Slow builds’ rarely work in this division as players age, often quickly - e.g Mulgrew, players are sold, some young players don’t develop as expected and so on. Successful clubs build and re-build quickly, with loans a big part of it. It’s a cutthroat League.

If the budget is there, spend it. Or you’ll be out of a job (normally, but this is VenkyWorld).

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by Mattyblue

[JBiz]

Just now, JHRover said:

I'm just pointing out the potentially ludicrous situation being suggested where the owners can and want to spend yet their employees are supposedly stopping that.

I think the new situation since Waggott has been as follows (he pretty much says it in his interview last year)

Every 12 months there’s a budget. Flex between initial costs and wages.

I don’t think our budget is far from last season thinking realistically about turnover and FFP, so it would take some comments more than TMs “I had to calm them down” quote to convince me there’s a conflict between the owners ambitions, and Tony’s willingness to risk his own job!

[JBiz]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

 

Think back to the optimism around 2014,  and then a year later anybody worth selling had gone.

See the “venkys keep transfer fees” stuff started around this time too - but common sense says a club losing nearly 50m in one calendar year might suffer down the line!

[Mattyblue]

Indeed, but you yourself still don’t trust them to not pull another stunt, by the sounds of it...

Edited July 4, 2019 by Mattyblue

[davulsukur]

Why did they waste all that time having meetings in India, if they are now still undecided on the way forward?

[JBiz]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Indeed, but it is now 2019.

...and the average wage has gone up even since then!

However turnover is down! That’s my main concern. 

Id love for us to go out spend good money and smash the division, but I cannot go through another reaction to that if it goes wrong.

If I was assuming TM and Waggott’s mindset - I’d suggest they’re concerned more by that than the Rao’s. 

Since were promoting the likes of Johnson, it suggests the current key decision makers “on the ground” have the have the right intentions for the future of the club.

If they also think keeping wages and transfer investments within a remit we can afford without sanction, is beneficial - I’m happy to go with them on that. (Whilst not assuming the reason is because TM doesn’t want to spend is because he wont drop Bennett, or because he thinks Raya is an easy target scapegoat!  )