Summer Transfer Window 2019

[SBlue]

  On 04/07/2019 at 07:47, RevidgeBlue said:

Call it what you like. It's an opinion just as yours is and nothing has actually happened in the last two and a half transfer windows to contradict that point of view.

if you have any actual evidence to the contrary please share.

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Ah the old flat earth argument.

The burden of proof is on the accuser.

[RevidgeBlue]

  On 04/07/2019 at 07:58, Biz said:

Actual evidence? Or do you mean like the rumour you based your input on?

 

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I'm basing my opinion on Mowbray's on the record comments about having to rein the owners in, more recent on the record comments about "the most important thing being to work with the players you've got", the fact that no players have been brought in to go straight into the starting eleven since we were promoted and the fact I was told there was substantial funding available to the manager in January.

What are you basing your opinion on?

[Mattyblue]

Mowbray must be the most moral manager in the game or extremely secure in his long term position. 

Championship managers have the shortest lifespan in football. Nowhere else do we hear them saying ‘I’m holding the owners back’ 

‘Slow builds’ are a fools errand. ‘Events, dear boy’ and all that.

[RevidgeBlue]

  On 04/07/2019 at 07:53, Biz said:

Depending on what you believe - our owners are already down the pan 150m due to “advice”. There’s no way they’re suddenly the experts, and if the rumours are true of them wanting to do spend again - doesn’t that fill you with dread? 

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No, ridiculous comment. The only way we will ever improve is if decent money is spent judiciously on quality players.

The thought of doing nothing and dropping back into League 1 or even lower is what fills me with dread.

Does it not you?

[Oldgregg86]

I don't know what to believe anymore.

i find it difficult to believe Venkys  want to give tony a war chest to get us promoted.

i find it impossible to believe a manager wouldn't spend funds to improve a squad which is at best mid table quality and has glaring defficiences throughout.

the one thing that does seem apparent is that everyone from top to bottom isn't singing from the same hymn sheet and until the club as a whole has a directive , goals and accountability to move the club forward as one then we will never progress. 

After all this time nobody actually knows what the venkys want and regardless of budget Tony's soundbites fill me with dread rather than confidence he is doing everything he can to rectify our main weaknesses.

oh for the days when we all had something to unquestionably believe in and get behind

Edited July 4, 2019 by Oldgregg86

[JBiz]

  On 04/07/2019 at 08:19, RevidgeBlue said:

I'm basing my opinion on Mowbray's on the record comments about having to rein the owners in, more recent on the record comments about "the most important thing being to work with the players you've got", the fact that no players have been brought in to go straight into the starting eleven since we were promoted and the fact I was told there was substantial funding available to the manager in January.

What are you basing your opinion on?

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There’s many parts to that that could be argued.

However the crux for me is I would sooner trust my cat’s decisions over the Rao’s perceived opinions, and he spends most days licking his own arse.

Therefore I’m not particularly interested in the rumours attributed to their wishes about their “baby”

TM once said he wanted to convince the owners that they should invest in the club again and trust there can be a positive return to the top flight, including some re-engagement with lost fans. He says a lot of things btw.

What he has done (actions n words etc) so far is meet all the expectations I had, some bad choices, many good ones. 

  On 04/07/2019 at 08:27, RevidgeBlue said:

No, ridiculous comment. The only way we will ever improve is if decent money is spent judiciously on quality players.

The thought of doing nothing and dropping back into League 1 or even lower is what fills me with dread.

Does it not you?

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It’s never that simple. 

I never advocated doing “nothing” either, I just pointed out how ridiculous your conclusions based on rumours are (in my view).

Similar investment amount to last year, season upon season - I wouldn’t call that a small build personally. 

[RevidgeBlue]

  On 04/07/2019 at 08:32, Biz said:

Similar investment amount to last year, season upon season - I wouldn’t call that a small build personally. 

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You're right - It wouldn't be if the manager spent it on players who were integral to the side and didn't squander it on players he barely used.

[tomphil]

  On 04/07/2019 at 07:36, Biz said:

Like Kean you mean?

In your readiness to believe anything that makes TM look bad, have you considered that the people supposedly telling the owners to spend, potentially have their own players/agencies/pockets in mind?

Its not like it’s happened before...

And as for overspending then paying the price if you don't go up quickly.. it’s almost as if you’re ignoring that element of our recent history and trouble on purpose.

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Fair points but I don't think buying one good defender for a few million and loaning in a striker on decent wages is going to push the FFP to braking point is it.  Not when you consider there could be a bit of room made on the wage bill shunting a few squad men out and not being over generous to those who'll never contribute if they stay here ten years.

That's the kind of thing we are after sensible but ambitious recruitment within the realms of normality not fantasy or boom and bust.

[Mattyblue]

They aren’t rumours. They are Mowbray on the record.

If we don’t advance as a side this coming season, it will probably be Dack’s last, maybe Lenihan too if he improves further. Plus next summer an over the hill Mulgrew still under contract and a main striker hitting 35.

The ‘slow build’ is then completely moot and we have to start again from scratch. It’s a nonsensical strategy in this league.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Mattyblue

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just catching up here. So Venkys want Mowbray to splash the cash soon and fans are complaining about that? Was that not what people wanted??

The new website looks deadly by the way. Well played lads. 

[Mattyblue]

No, just Biz.

[JHRover]

  On 04/07/2019 at 08:40, Mattyblue said:

They aren’t rumours. They are Mowbray on the record.

If we don’t advance as a side this coming season, it will probably be Dack’s last, maybe Lenihan too if he improves further. Plus next summer an over the hill Mulgrew still under contract and a main striker hitting 35.

The ‘slow build’ is then completely moot and we have to start again from scratch. It’s a nonsensical strategy in this league.

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Exactly. Those who cling to the 'slow build' concept are those who will turn around when Dack is sold and say more time is needed to replace him and rebuild. On and on that cycle goes until we've lost another 50 million quid to tread water in the Championship, at best.

Norwich needed 2 seasons under Farke. Sheffield United did it in their 2nd season after promotion from League One. Wolves did it in year 2 after their takeover. Cardiff in Warnock's first full season. Burnley in Dyches first full season. Brighton and Middlesbrough in Hughton and Karankas 2nd seasons having gone close before.

The idea of a 4-5 year build or whatever we are now talking about is wrong. We're in year 2 in the Championship so should expect 'the plan' to be coming to fruition. That isn't to say promotion is expected or demanded but that the slow build concept should now be reaching conclusion.

There isn't the time in football these days to build over 4 years, not when operating like we do

 

[JBiz]

  On 04/07/2019 at 08:37, RevidgeBlue said:

You're right - It wouldn't be if the manager spent it on players who were integral to the side and didn't squander it on players he barely used.

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Again, easy to argue that Chapman, Rothwell, Davenport, Brereton, Armstrong et al will be key additions when given time to develop and meld with the talented players coming through the academy.

We all know how much it would cost to instantly replace Graham - all though, you’ll likely make an Assombalonga of yourself suggest Graham’s not that good  

  On 04/07/2019 at 08:39, tomphil said:

Fair points but I don't think buying one good defender for a few million and loaning in a striker on decent wages is going to push the FFP to braking point is it.  Not when you consider there could be a bit of room made on the wage bill shunting a few squad men out and not being over generous to those who'll never contribute if they stay here ten years.

That's the kind of thing we are after sensible but ambitious recruitment within the realms of normality not fantasy or boom and bust.

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I’m with you there TP. There are some issues previously mentioned with this, for example one 30/40k pw in a team full of 15/20kpw has obvious pitfalls, and also the quality difference between lower Prem and Champ is massively surpassed by the cost.

Thus, every decent waged proven championship player that comes available - there’s at least 3 clubs that’ll be able to offer “insane” wages compared to our perceived “cap”. Then probably 5 more with similar budgets.

Its not as simple as it is played out to be for me. That doesn’t mean I’d be making excuses or not frustrated if the defence is unchanged come August!

  On 04/07/2019 at 08:40, Mattyblue said:

They aren’t rumours. They are Mowbray on the record.

Without advancing as a side, we probably have one more season of Dack, maybe Lenihan too if he improves further. Plus next summer an over the hill Mulgrew and a main striker hitting 35.

The ‘slow build’ is then completely moot and we have to start again from scratch. It’s a nonsensical strategy in this league.

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Putting nearly 10m in a season isn’t slow building imo.

Plus - the strategy in this league to spend frivolously in the face of sanction isn't watertight either!

 

 

[MarkBRFC]

  On 04/07/2019 at 08:44, Bigdoggsteel said:

Just catching up here. So Venkys want Mowbray to splash the cash soon and fans are complaining about that? Was that not what people wanted??

The new website looks deadly by the way. Well played lads. 

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I think people are saying that it's a bizarre set of events that "apparently" venkys want to spend money ASAP, but Mowbray doesn't want too and wants to wait until deadline day when apparently there will be more value for money.

Never heard of such a carry on.

[tomphil]

So there's allegedly money to be made available for signings if TM presents the right players yet he's scrabbling around allegedly pulling out of good potential targets because they are too expensive even though he hasn't actually presented them to the owners ?

Sounds like the perfect storm to me !

In reality like I've said before similar budget to last year but similar outlay already committed to go out for last summers big signings again so not much left at all. 2 wages out have gone into Downings contract and anything else will be down to someone convincing them to allow a big signing or a late window rush of blood if Madame or Balaji have had a good vacation and are in a spiffingly good mood, then we get panic buys !

The scabbling around is because he's trying to find cheap solutions again or get the best loan deals which have the biggest wage contributions from parent clubs.

Normal summer really.......

Edited July 4, 2019 by tomphil

[Mattyblue]

  On 04/07/2019 at 08:50, Biz said:

Again, easy to argue that Chapman, Rothwell, Davenport, Brereton, Armstrong et al will be key additions when given time to develop and meld with the talented players coming through the academy.

We all know how much it would cost to instantly replace Graham - all though, you’ll likely make an Assombalonga of yourself suggest Graham’s not that good  

I’m with you there TP. There are some issues previously mentioned with this, for example one 30/40k pw in a team full of 15/20kpw has obvious pitfalls, and also the quality difference between lower Prem and Champ is massively surpassed by the cost.

Thus, every decent waged proven championship player that comes available - there’s at least 3 clubs that’ll be able to offer “insane” wages compared to our perceived “cap”. Then probably 5 more with similar budgets.

Its not as simple as it is played out to be for me. That doesn’t mean I’d be making excuses or not frustrated if the defence is unchanged come August!

Putting nearly 10m in a season isn’t slow building imo.

Plus - the strategy in this league to spend frivolously in the face of sanction isn't watertight either!

 

 

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Indeed it isn’t. But spending two thirds of it on a kid of nowhere near the level required says promotion isn’t a priority but this holy grail of young English players being sold for profit.

The clues are there with the constant talk of ‘moving away from the benefactor model’

Yet, we all know this club will only ever do that in the Premier League or a totally stripped back operation in the lower leagues. Never in the Championship.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Mattyblue

[47er]

  On 04/07/2019 at 08:21, Mattyblue said:

Mowbray must be the most moral manager in the game or extremely secure in his long term position. 

Championship managers have the shortest lifespan in football. Nowhere else do we hear them saying ‘I’m holding the owners back’ 

‘Slow builds’ are a fools errand. ‘Events, dear boy’ and all that.

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Exactly. Either you try to the control of events or they take control of you. You have to exploit every chance in football in case it never comes again.

[RevidgeBlue]

  On 04/07/2019 at 08:50, Biz said:

Again, easy to argue that Chapman, Rothwell, Davenport, Brereton, Armstrong et al will be key additions when given time to develop and meld with the talented players coming through the academy.

We all know how much it would cost to instantly replace Graham - all though, you’ll likely make an Assombalonga of yourself suggest Graham’s not that good  

 

 

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Graham isn't that good these days and that's probably an understatement.

Hypothetically Assombalonga would be a cracking replacement but you're right to say a top quality Championship striker doesn't come cheap these days. Nevertheless it has to be done regardless of cost and unless Brereton suddenly astounds us all, our prospects this season will  depend largely on whether Graham is replaced and if so, how good that replacement is imo.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Is it not a good thing that the owners want to spend money though? Makes a change from only signing Derrick Williams in the window for £250,000 

I reckon a few could be surprised by what we spend this summer. 

I will say it does sound like Mowbray is being cautious mindful of the fact that if Venkys spend more, we will need to be in contention for promotion. Especially when clubs are asking over the odds for players. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 04/07/2019 at 08:58, RevidgeBlue said:

Graham isn't that good these days and that's probably an understatement.

Hypothetically Assombalonga would be a cracking replacement but you're right to say a top quality Championship striker doesn't come cheap these days. Nevertheless it has to be done regardless of cost and unless Brereton suddenly astounds us all, our prospects this season will  depend largely on whether Graham is replaced and if so, how good that replacement is imo.

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No, it's bullshit. Player of the year and 15 goals last season. 

[47er]

  On 04/07/2019 at 07:36, Angry_Pirate said:

For what it's worth that's exactly what I've heard from a few people who work at Rovers... as far back as January. 

Think of the pressure surrounding the Brereton deal... the manager (possibly) knows a big window will increase expectation and there are only so many £2-£8m players he can keep on his bench behind Bennett, Williams, Evans, Smallwood etc.

Ironically, by spending money, TM (thinks he) is actually increasing the odds of getting sacked as a result of it... he's probably right. I don't expect him to see past December if I'm being honest/hopeful. Spend or especially no spend.

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He'll ease his self-restraint once his kids have finished uni! 

 

[JBiz]

  On 04/07/2019 at 08:58, RevidgeBlue said:

Graham isn't that good these days and that's probably an understatement.

Hypothetically Assombalonga would be a cracking replacement but you're right to say a top quality Championship striker doesn't come cheap these days. Nevertheless it has to be done regardless of cost and unless Brereton suddenly astounds us all, our prospects this season will  depend largely on whether Graham is replaced and if so, how good that replacement is imo.

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My view is this season depends on improving the defence.

Grant Hanley would be a good addition for me. Future Scottish captain preened by the current one? 

[Mattyblue]

  On 04/07/2019 at 08:59, Bigdoggsteel said:

Is it not a good thing that the owners want to spend money though? Makes a change from only signing Derrick Williams in the window for £250,000 

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Yes it is. And that’s what everyone is saying... apart from you know who.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Mattyblue

[RevidgeBlue]

  On 04/07/2019 at 09:00, Bigdoggsteel said:

No, it's bullshit. Player of the year and 15 goals last season. 

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Shows how bad everyone else was last time round when a guy who can't last 90 mins or play 3 games in a week was our player of the season.

[Mattyblue]

  On 04/07/2019 at 09:03, RevidgeBlue said:

Shows how bad everyone else was last time round when a guy who can't last 90 mins or play 3 games in a week was our player of the season.

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He largely did play the 3 games last season, to be fair...