Summer Transfer Window 2019

[The Axe]

Just now, DE. said:

I'm sure I can remember TM have a pop at Travis as well. Then there was the infamous one where Reed was told he needs to be more like Evans and Smallwood. Really hard for anyone to defend that ridiculous comment tbf.

I'm really struggling to recall any Rovers' manager, even the bad ones, singling out individuals for adverse comment. Certainly can't ever remember a young player getting this treatment.

[Paul Mani]

22 minutes ago, Stuart said:

If Raya wasn’t going to be first choice then you would think Mowbray would know who was - or even had someone lined-  up rather than some kind of Jedi mind trick motivation that backfired.

If Raya was told that he would now be competing with Leutwiler to start I could understand why he would have wanted to leave.

Question: does this situation reflect badly on Mowbray or not?

In that scenario TM has lost confidence in a keeper who has made some mistakes and informs him that he intends to bring a direct challenger into the club. Raya decides that isn’t for him (fair enough) and pushes for a move.

I don’t see how this can reflect badly on either Mowbray or Raya? People make choices. That’s just life. 

[DE.]

Just now, The Axe said:

I'm really struggling to recall any Rovers' manager, even the bad ones, singling out individuals for adverse comment. Certainly can't ever remember a young player getting this treatment.

I've said it before, but it makes absolutely no sense to attack one of your own players in public. There is literally nothing to gain from it. If you want the player to improve then you can talk to them in private. If you want them to move on then all attacking them in public does is make that player look worse and therefore lower his value and desirability. It is a stupid and pointless endeavour. I really wouldn't have expected it from Mowbray of all people. I can remember with the Raya one especially he sounded really angry, and we were also on a really bad run at the time, so maybe he was feeling the pressure a bit and lost his head. It's the only explanation I can come up with.

[Stuart]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

In that scenario TM has lost confidence in a keeper who has made some mistakes and informs him that he intends to bring a direct challenger into the club. Raya decides that isn’t for him (fair enough) and pushes for a move.

I don’t see how this can reflect badly on either Mowbray or Raya? People make choices. That’s just life. 

As a manager I’d expect Mowbray to have a plan in place to replace Raya before he tells he’s no longer in his plans.

It’s interesting that some think he jumped and some think he was pushed, yet in both cases Mowbray is blameless.

He absolutely MUST sign a credible goalkeeper this week. Ideally somebody already signed and saying their goodbyes. Because we’ve just handed the bargaining power over to any agent that we now have to deal with - unless their client is currently out of work.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Stuart

[Paul Mani]

Just now, The Axe said:

I'm really struggling to recall any Rovers' manager, even the bad ones, singling out individuals for adverse comment. Certainly can't ever remember a young player getting this treatment.

Odd...the players all seem to love him and most of the time he’s accused of being some sort of loyal, lap dog who hasn’t got the balls to stand up to the lads. Then the odd occasion when he does speak openly he’s seen as a tyrant! ??‍♂️

 

[The Axe]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Odd...the players all seem to love him and most of the time he’s accused of being some sort of loyal, lap dog who hasn’t got the balls to stand up to the lads. Then the odd occasion when he does speak openly he’s seen as a tyrant! ??‍♂️

 

I never depicted him as a tyrant. Just commenting that in the 67 years I've watched the Rovers I can never remember a manager openly criticising a player.

[Miller11]

If Raya has been told he’s not going to be first choice, I’d fully expect him to push for a move to a club where he was. He’s been a regular for 2 seasons so dropping back to the bench wouldn’t be seen as an option to him I wouldn’t have thought.

Also hearing a bit of a rumour (nothing more than that) that he wasn’t happy with the terms of his contract. One of our lower earners and wanted a bigger wage which we weren’t prepared to give him.

[Beanie01289]

Just now, The Axe said:

I never depicted him as a tyrant. Just commenting that in the 67 years I've watched the Rovers I can never remember a manager openly criticising a player.

I don't know of any particular incident but I'm fairly sure souness must have he just must have. 

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Odd...the players all seem to love him and most of the time he’s accused of being some sort of loyal, lap dog who hasn’t got the balls to stand up to the lads. Then the odd occasion when he does speak openly he’s seen as a tyrant! ??‍♂️

 

He only calls out the young players, never the more experienced ones. Take last season our defence was a shambles the only two he publicly criticised were Nyambe (21) and Raya (23). He didn't call out Mulgrew, Williams, Bennett or Bell even though they were all consistently awful. Why do you think that is?

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Stuart said:

As a manager I’d expect Mowbray to have plan on place to replace Raya before he tells he’s no longer in his plans.

It’s interesting that some think he jumped and some think he was pushed, yet in both cases Mowbray is blameless.

He absolutely MUST sign a credible goalkeeper this week. Ideally somebody already signed and saying their goodbyes. Because we’ve just handed the bargaining power over to any agent that we now have to deal with - unless their client is currently out of work.

He’s had a conversation with the guy and told him that he’s looking for an experienced keeper to challenge him. I’d imagine he had the same chats with Mulgrew, Williams, Smallwood possibly even Evans and Graham. He’s absolutely within his rights to do so and there’d be no expectation that he would know at that point who, exactly he was signing. 

The fact that Raya decided to push his way out off the back of that conversation is also not a big deal. If I were in his position with a manager who’s obv lost some confidence in me I’d want to go too. It’s no one’s fault and at this stage does not reflect badly on anyone.

What I will 100% agree with you on is that having made the deciision and allowed Raya to leave, he MUST replace him with an improved version. To fail in doing so would be a major failing in Mowbray.

But at this stage, the Raya situation absolutely does not reflect badly on anyone imo.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

He only calls out the young players, never the more experienced ones. Take last season our defence was a shambles the only two he publicly criticised were Nyambe (21) and Raya (23). He didn't call out Mulgrew, Williams, Bennett or Bell even though they were all consistently awful. Why do you think that is?

Ahahaha so he’s bully then? ??? do you guys ever give up? ??‍♂️

[The Axe]

Just now, Beanie01289 said:

I don't know of any particular incident but I'm fairly sure souness must have he just must have. 

Give me proof and I'll believe you but try as I might I can't recall public criticism. Can remember Dally Duncan refusing to utter a word against Dougan after the Cup Final. Also know Butcher drove Jim Smith wild but he never said a word that could be reported.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

He’s had a conversation with the guy and told him that he’s looking for an experienced keeper to challenge him. I’d imagine he had the same chats with Mulgrew, Williams, Smallwood possibly even Evans and Graham. He’s absolutely within his rights to do so and there’d be no expectation that he would know at that point who, exactly he was signing. 

The fact that Raya decided to push his way out off the back of that conversation is also not a big deal. If I were in his position with a manager who’s obv lost some confidence in me I’d want to go too. It’s no one’s fault and at this stage does not reflect badly on anyone.

What I will 100% agree with you on is that having made the deciision and allowed Raya to leave, he MUST replace him with an improved version. To fail in doing so would be a major failing in Mowbray.

But at this stage, the Raya situation absolutely does not reflect badly on anyone imo.

Theres a lot of assumption there, his motive for wanting the move could be anything, a desire to play with the goalkeeping coach to improve him (both Spanish), belief that Brentford are more likely to get promoted (spending big on Jansson potentially too), could be a wage rise, could have grown sick and tired of being singled out in the media when the whole defence is shit, could be anything.

Your second to last paragraph is the key however, fully agree.

Just hope we start the necessary defensive overhaul soon.

Edited July 6, 2019 by roversfan99

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Ahahaha so he’s bully then? ??? do you guys ever give up? ??‍♂️

That you saying he's the bully not me. I just asked why do you think he called out 2 players in their early 20's but not the more experienced players in our backline? You have obviously surmised from that, that he is a bully. I personally just think he is a coward.  

[Paul Mani]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Theres a lot of assumption there, his motive for wanting the move could be anything, a desire to play with the goalkeeping coach to improve him (both Spanish), belief that Brentford are more likely to get promoted (spending big on Jansson potentially too), could be a wage rise, could have grown sick and tired of being singled out in the media when the whole defence is shit, could be anything.

Your second to last paragraph is the key however, fully agree.Insert other media

Just hope we start the necessary defensive overhaul soon.

Tbf there’s assumption in every post. Because none of us actually know what went on. This makes it extremely difficult to make any assertions on how it reflects on anyone.

What I can say wholeheartedly is that IF having let Raya go we do not sign an upgrade then Mowbray will be in for it off the fans. And rightly so!

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

That you saying he's the bully not me. I just asked why do you think he called out 2 players in their early 20's but not the more experienced players in our backline? You have obviously surmised from that, that he is a bully. I personally just think he is a coward.  

I just genuinely don’t know where some of you get this stuff from. ??‍♂️??

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Just hope we start the necessary defensive overhaul soon.

I wouldn't get your hope's up. I get the feeling that at the very most we are going to see one defender brought in either on loan or on the cheap.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Ewood Ace

[Mattyblue]

Thread on Adam on the Stoke board. Quality player, legs gone is the jist:

 

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/287865/charlie-adam-departs?page=1

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Ahahaha so he’s bully then? ??? do you guys ever give up? ??‍♂️

I wouldn't say he bullies them but he does seem to criticise them personally. Remember he has form, he banished Travis for 12 months for a stupid sending off, Nyambe seemed to get dropped everytime he made a mistake.

[Stuart]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Thread on Adam on the Stoke board. Quality player, legs gone is the jist:

 

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/287865/charlie-adam-departs?page=1

Would definitely be found out in the Championship. Avoid.

[Vinjay]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Thread on Adam on the Stoke board. Quality player, legs gone is the jist:

 

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/287865/charlie-adam-departs?page=1

That sounds like what Parson just said on other thread about his vision, passing ability being evident. Of course today wouldn't be the right time to judge a player's engine or what's left of it.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Stuart said:

Would definitely be found out in the Championship. Avoid.

Agreed.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Theres a lot of assumption there, his motive for wanting the move could be anything, a desire to play with the goalkeeping coach to improve him (both Spanish), belief that Brentford are more likely to get promoted (spending big on Jansson potentially too), could be a wage rise, could have grown sick and tired of being singled out in the media when the whole defence is shit, could be anything.

Your second to last paragraph is the key however, fully agree.

Just hope we start the necessary defensive overhaul soon.

Raya seemed to get dropped after the meeting between Mowbray and the keepers last season where it was alleged he told them another keeper would be coming. I think Raya must of taken exception to it and the rest is now history. Would explain why Letwiller played the last few games of the season 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

So far then.  Two out of contract midfielders in the twilight of their careers have signed.  Possibly a third (Adam) and another midfielder (Butterworth) is allegedly on trial.  This is to add to Evans, Smallwood, Travis, Davenport, Buckley and Bennett who we already have in that position and nobody wants to buy.

We've sold our number 1 keeper (which is ok because he wanted to leave) without lining up a replacement, Decided that defence isn't a problem anymore and are looking at spending any money we have playing moneyball with a striker because last year's didn't work out. 

 

Have I missed anything?

[JHRover]

8 hours ago, unsall said:

So you don’t believe the Darlow rumours who  would probably cost more than we got for Raya.

Sounds like Mowbray has confirmed that wont be happening.