Summer Transfer Window 2019

[bluebruce]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

The article I shared above from less than 6 months ago is the first mention I recall of it. 

Ah come on now, this Mowbray lies, backtracks stuff etc is getting out of hand. People are just looking to twist everything now.  IF he said it may bare some fruit for summer, us not signing someone from Europe isn't necessarily backtracking. He did say a few days ago that we are looking at keepers in Europe "as long as the have played at the top level".

I know it's shocking how badly it was dismantled. Hard to pinpoint when exactly, but we had one of the best before Venkys took over. 

There's a huge difference between 'it's getting out of hand' and 'bigdog doesn't like it'. He HAS backtracked on some things. Most notably, how badly we need defenders, and the expected efficacy of the European scouting network.

I'm not accusing him of lying. Backtracking isn't even inherently negative in my eyes, depends what it is. The European scouting network? A shame, a little worrying in terms of potentially delaying our progress and whether it is good enough to deliver in future, but ultimately just a case of overestimating how quickly/well it could be implemented. Not the end of the world for now. The remarks on defenders, switching from 'I don't have a defence and defenders are coming' to 'not a bigger priority than other areas'? Deeply, deeply worrying. If it isn't just barter talk, it could seriously hamper our prospects this year.

Look, all people backtrack from time to time. Not doing can simply be a sign of being stubborn and refusing to accept reality. Much like pretending TM hasn't done some.

[DE.]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I notice Chapman has disappeared off social media in the last few weeks. I have a funny feeling he is injured again and it is being kept quite. If he is, it would be very, very worrying. 

I think he was officially announced as "ill" in the friendly he missed, although my first thought was that the word was being substituted for injured so people didn't get upset. 

I've said before we simply cannot rely on Chapman being a regular starter for our team. We'll do well to get 20 appearances out of him in a season imo, and that includes coming on as a substitute.  

[RoverKyle]

5 minutes ago, DE. said:

I think he was officially announced as "ill" in the friendly he missed, although my first thought was that the word was being substituted for injured so people didn't get upset. 

I've said before we simply cannot rely on Chapman being a regular starter for our team. We'll do well to get 20 appearances out of him in a season imo, and that includes coming on as a substitute.  

I completely understand the concerns over Chapman, but I'd rather have 20 games where I could call on him, than not have him available at all (i.e. if we'd not signed him). He's brilliant. Given his probable low salary and transfer fee, he's worth having IMO.

I think the risk on our end has greatly reduced as well with the additions of Downing and Gallagher. Downing as a potential option out wide and Gallagher as a genuine contender to replace Graham, leaving the likes of Armstrong available to play out wide. 

Edited July 15, 2019 by RoverKyle

[Bigdoggsteel]

20 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

There's a huge difference between 'it's getting out of hand' and 'bigdog doesn't like it'. He HAS backtracked on some things. Most notably, how badly we need defenders, and the expected efficacy of the European scouting network.

I'm not accusing him of lying. Backtracking isn't even inherently negative in my eyes, depends what it is. The European scouting network? A shame, a little worrying in terms of potentially delaying our progress and whether it is good enough to deliver in future, but ultimately just a case of overestimating how quickly/well it could be implemented. Not the end of the world for now. The remarks on defenders, switching from 'I don't have a defence and defenders are coming' to 'not a bigger priority than other areas'? Deeply, deeply worrying. If it isn't just barter talk, it could seriously hamper our prospects this year.

Look, all people backtrack from time to time. Not doing can simply be a sign of being stubborn and refusing to accept reality. Much like pretending TM hasn't done some.

If we don't sign a defender or defenders, it will be on his head if we have a CM playing there like last season 

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 minutes ago, DE. said:

I think he was officially announced as "ill" in the friendly he missed, although my first thought was that the word was being substituted for injured so people didn't get upset. 

I've said before we simply cannot rely on Chapman being a regular starter for our team. We'll do well to get 20 appearances out of him in a season imo, and that includes coming on as a substitute.  

The fact he is off social media is a red flag to me. He was constantly putting stuff up, then he stopped. I would imagine he would be devastated  if it was another injury. 

I reckon he is going to break our hearts. Will repeatedly get injured just when it is looking like he is getting going. Hopefully I am wrong. 

[JacknOry]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

The fact he is off social media is a red flag to me. He was constantly putting stuff up, then he stopped. I would imagine he would be devastated  if it was another injury. 

I reckon he is going to break our hearts. Will repeatedly get injured just when it is looking like he is getting going. Hopefully I am wrong. 

Must be very mentally challenging to continuously break down with injury. Especially when it always seems to be before the season even gets underway - so he never seems to play many minutes. 

Still, he might just have been ill as reported. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Must be very mentally challenging to continuously break down with injury. Especially when it always seems to be before the season even gets underway - so he never seems to play many minutes. 

Still, he might just have been ill as reported. 

Wasn't he pictured sitting out of training too? So mentally challenging for him if it's yet another injury

Hopefully it was illness and we get to see him in pre-season. If he doesn't feature Wednesday I think it is safe to assume it isn't a case of him just being ill 

[Russ]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

The fact he is off social media is a red flag to me. He was constantly putting stuff up, then he stopped. I would imagine he would be devastated  if it was another injury. 

I reckon he is going to break our hearts. Will repeatedly get injured just when it is looking like he is getting going. Hopefully I am wrong. 

He was still on Twitter yesterday, I think people are overthinking it!

[bluebruce]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

If we don't sign a defender or defenders, it will be on his head if we have a CM playing there like last season 

No. If we don't fix the defence it will be on his head.

I keep seeing quite a lot of people talking about whether we will sign a goalkeeper and centre half. IMO it's super obvious we will. I'd be beyond shocked if we didn't.

Simply signing a defender and a keeper isn't what concerns me. It's imperative we sign a better keeper than Raya, and a bare minimum of one centre half better than anyone we've got there now (possibly except Lenihan). Between them, they'll also need to be able to marshal our defence better.

It's also important that we own both of these players. If we sign players that don't fit these criteria, the window has been a fail for me. Tbh I think we need two defenders of the stated quality. Don't mind if we loan one as long as we own one too. Don't mind if the second is a CB or fullback. Don't mind one goalie on loan as long as we own the other (otherwise we will have to do this all again next year).

I really hope I don't see us sign some keeper who doesn't improve on Raya and one CB kid on loan from the Prem and see people herald it as a big 'we told you so'. If that is the outcome we get, it will mean the budget has been mismanaged, and no amount of spin will convince most of us otherwise.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, bluebruce said:

No. If we don't fix the defence it will be on his head.

I keep seeing quite a lot of people talking about whether we will sign a goalkeeper and centre half. IMO it's super obvious we will. I'd be beyond shocked if we didn't.

Simply signing a defender and a keeper isn't what concerns me. It's imperative we sign a better keeper than Raya, and a bare minimum of one centre half better than anyone we've got there now (possibly except Lenihan). Between them, they'll also need to be able to marshal our defence better.

It's also important that we own both of these players. If we sign players that don't fit these criteria, the window has been a fail for me. Tbh I think we need two defenders of the stated quality. Don't mind if we loan one as long as we own one too. Don't mind if the second is a CB or fullback. Don't mind one goalie on loan as long as we own the other (otherwise we will have to do this all again next year).

I really hope I don't see us sign some keeper who doesn't improve on Raya and one CB kid on loan from the Prem and see people herald it as a big 'we told you so'. If that is the outcome we get, it will mean the budget has been mismanaged, and no amount of spin will convince most of us otherwise.

I think the right keeper will go a long way to fixing the defensive issues. 

Ideally we sign a defender permanently, but I'm not going to be down with the inevitable overreaction if we loan one. I don't see how that will be the huge issue that it undoubtedly will be for some. Particularly if it's a loan to buy. 

[MarkBRFC]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think the right keeper will go a long way to fixing the defensive issues. 

Ideally we sign a defender permanently, but I'm not going to be down with the inevitable overreaction if we loan one. I don't see how that will be the huge issue that it undoubtedly will be for some. Particularly if it's a loan to buy. 

The loaning of one isn't an issue, it's the caliber of the loan.

No point loaning a kid from Burnley (Dunne) or Liverpool (Johnston?) When we could just blood Magloire or Grayson. If its somebody experienced who isn't getting game time or an exceptional talent like Tuanzebe then fair enough.

Edited July 15, 2019 by MarkBRFC

[Mattyblue]

Why will there be an ‘inevitable overreaction’?

I thought that it was half expected to be a loanee, I.e when Hanley was linked...

[bluebruce]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think the right keeper will go a long way to fixing the defensive issues. 

Ideally we sign a defender permanently, but I'm not going to be down with the inevitable overreaction if we loan one. I don't see how that will be the huge issue that it undoubtedly will be for some. Particularly if it's a loan to buy. 

It won't be an overreaction to be unhappy and concerned with not signing any defenders permanently. It will just be a reaction. It's the weakest part of our team by a country mile and we really don't want to be back to square one on it again next year because we only loaned someone, and with Mulgrew even older and slower. If we end up only loaning it's because we misallocated our budget. I don't know how you could think otherwise.

Loan to buy, on a good centre half, will be grudgingly acceptable to me. Could still end up in that same position I described though. We need at least two defenders anyway.

[jones_rover]

At this point it would seem silly to buy and more forward players and we haven't used up any loan spots yet so can very easily see us targeting defensive reinforcements on loan. 

Key to this for me is making sure we get the right type of player in, ideally need someone with some experience or pedigree rather than a youngster - tough part is figuring if anyone filling that criteria is available from a prem team and then fighting off the inevitable competition for them!

Eg Villa signing Mings/Tuanzebe on loan last year worked out well for them, can anyone think of anyone that might fit the bill for us?

[pick32]

Captain of wales Ashley Williams on a free

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, bluebruce said:

It won't be an overreaction to be unhappy and concerned with not signing any defenders permanently. 

I never said it would be. I was specifically and clearly taking about a loan. 

[bluebruce]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I never said it would be. I was specifically and clearly taking about a loan. 

I think you're completely misunderstanding me. I was also talking about how, if all we get is a loan, it won't be an overreaction to be unhappy with that.

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, bluebruce said:

It won't be an overreaction to be unhappy and concerned with not signing any defenders permanently. It will just be a reaction. It's the weakest part of our team by a country mile and we really don't want to be back to square one on it again next year because we only loaned someone, and with Mulgrew even older and slower. If we end up only loaning it's because we misallocated our budget. I don't know how you could think otherwise.

Loan to buy, on a good centre half, will be grudgingly acceptable to me. Could still end up in that same position I described though. We need at least two defenders anyway.

How do you know that? It may just be a case of not having the right player on the market and the loan option being more appealing until a better transfer comes along.

Quite mad how you can make such an assertion with very little to back it up.

The truth is it would be a sign we haven't achieved what we set out to do if we end the window with no defenders incoming. Whether they are loans or permanent transfers it is irrelevant as long as they improve the team. That's what I will judge Mowbray on. I couldn't possibly begin to judge his handle of the budget because I simply don't know what has gone on behind the scenes.

[JacknOry]

If we were going to bolster with a loan as well as get someone in permanently, that Hector at Chelsea might be a good shout. Was at Wednesday last season and was popular. Think he would be a more realistic target than Tuanzebe.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, bluebruce said:

I think you're completely misunderstanding me. I was also talking about how, if all we get is a loan, it won't be an overreaction to be unhappy with that.

In my opinion it would be an overreaction.

If the player improves us, why would you be unhappy if he was signed on loan? Should it not be about how good the player is? 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, JacknOry said:

If we were going to bolster with a loan as well as get someone in permanently, that Hector at Chelsea might be a good shout. Was at Wednesday last season and was popular. Think he would be a more realistic target than Tuanzebe.

Tuanzebe might be around the United squad by the sounds of it as well. 

Phil Jones anyone? That would be interesting..... 

PS- I know it's unrealistic 

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[RoversClitheroe]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I never said it would be. I was specifically and clearly taking about a loan. 

Do you work for Rovers? Seem to ignore the fact we were defensively shambolic last season and it wasn't purely down to the keeper (who saved the 3rd most shots in the league last season).

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, RoversClitheroe said:

Do you work for Rovers? Seem to ignore the fact we were defensively shambolic last season and it wasn't purely down to the keeper (who saved the 3rd most shots in the league last season).

You seem to be saying something that doesn't relate to what you quoted from me. Can you be clearer? 

[The Mighty Chaffinch]

If we are flirting with the idea of bringing in out of contract midfielders like Butterfield and Adam then why not apply the same logic to defenders. Tommie Hoban has been released by Watford, he's still only 25, knows a lot of the lads and when fit (not often sadly) he looked decent. I'm not suggesting he should be our first choice centre back but he certainly adds to the pool of established players like Mulgrew, Lenihan and Williams. He might turn out a dud but I wouldn't imagine he'd cost the earth 

[tomphil]

No more injury prone gambles for gods sake how many do we want to carry never mind the risks of signing mid 30's players.

Let's just get something fit, tried and tested whether it's loan or not.

Hoban is no better than what we have at the min.