Summer Transfer Window 2019

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, Jlee1984 said:

Maybe they use the same system as Liverpool, Team has to guarantee a certain percentage of games or there’s a massive fee in the clause 

Quite right.

You loan players out for game time and experience.

It also helps if the manager plays them in their rightful position!

Don't think Mowbray's management of loan players is great and this will have not gone unnoticed at clubs like City. 

 

[47er]

4 hours ago, Vilesinner said:

Brereton is looking brilliant, perhaps you would be better served giving our young players some support.

He is our top striker this pre season. 

 

and who have we played again?

[FGS5635]

This season cant start soon enough. Really need some actual football to discuss

[McClarky]

Why would we take someone else's reserves player on loan and then pay them of they aren't good enough to get into our first team?  Another example of how football has gone mad.  Surely we should be scouting and bringing in our own players rather than just taking other clubs' rejects and effectively doing them a favour and then paying for it.

Personally I think the whole system of loans is broken and should be avoided.  These players almost always have no motivation to play for you and are a waste of time.  Different if there is an intention to buy but usually it's a waste of time and money.  There are some exceptions but not that many.

[DE.]

Just now, McClarky said:

Why would we take someone else's reserves player on loan and then pay them of they aren't good enough to get into our first team?  Another example of how football has gone mad.  Surely we should be scouting and bringing in our own players rather than just taking other clubs' rejects and effectively doing them a favour and then paying for it.

Personally I think the whole system of loans is broken and should be avoided.  These players almost always have no motivation to play for you and are a waste of time.  Different if there is an intention to buy but usually it's a waste of time and money.  There are some exceptions but not that many.

Unfortunately clubs in the PL are so minted nowadays that they can afford to tell clubs lower down in the pyramid how they want their players to be used. If not, no loan and the ridiculous PL TV money means it's no sweat to keep a reserve player in the u23's. 

[Ricky]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think the deal for Aradabioyo  is off due to the lack of guarantee playing time and the financial penalties if he doesn't play. 

I think we should be going after someone like Michael Hector or Jake Cooper. 

I also think why we haven't someone like that in so far as clubs asking price we have been quote for a quality player we need is current too night. Realistic, clubs are now going have too considering the amount of signings certain clubs need. Most clubs need 2 or 3 signings at least with 12 days to go of the transfer window. As per usual(since these transfer window) the last week of window will be chaos and utter madness   

Jake Cooper you say......... ON EVERY SINGLE POST!!!!  

In all seriousness though, have we actually been linked to him? Genuine question as it’s not a name I’m overly familiar with. We really don’t seem to have been linked to many CBs at all which is a bit of a concern as I think we all know we need at least one.

[martonrover]

Just now, FGS5635 said:

This season cant start soon enough. Really need some actual football to discuss

Yes, then we will really have something to moan about ?

[iSeeRed]

Just now, Ricky said:

Jake Cooper you say......... ON EVERY SINGLE POST!!!!  

In all seriousness though, have we actually been linked to him? Genuine question as it’s not a name I’m overly familiar with. We really don’t seem to have been linked to many CBs at all which is a bit of a concern as I think we all know we need at least one.

I have haven't seen us linked to him

Edited July 26, 2019 by iSeeRed

[Fraserkirky]

19 minutes ago, briansol said:

I realize I'm in the minority but I think Bennett is a decent right back. Not great, but can run all day, tackle and can put in a cross. 

Bennett is an absolutely rancid crosser of a ball. 

[DE.]

Just now, Fraserkirky said:

Bennett is an absolutely rancid crosser of a ball. 

Fits in well with the rest of our players at least!

Trying to think of a player we have that is a good crosser of the ball... Downing, hopefully?

[JHRover]

28 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think the deal for Aradabioyo  is off due to the lack of guarantee playing time and the financial penalties if he doesn't play. 

I think we should be going after someone like Michael Hector or Jake Cooper. 

I also think why we haven't someone like that in so far as clubs asking price we have been quote for a quality player we need is current too night. Realistic, clubs are now going have too considering the amount of signings certain clubs need. Most clubs need 2 or 3 signings at least with 12 days to go of the transfer window. As per usual(since these transfer window) the last week of window will be chaos and utter madness   

So just so I'm clear.

We've spent 1 year pursuing Patrick Bauer. Failed to agree a fee to get him last summer or January so stuck it out only to watch him join PNE because we told him he would be sat on the bench as '3rd choice' CB behind the dreadful defence of last season. He didn't fancy coming here as '3rd choice' so joins that lot up the road instead.

Having missed out on a long term target and seemingly having no other irons in the fire we then go after this lad from City on loan. Get him down to Brockhall, get everything up and running but then the deal falls through at the last minute because we can't or won't promise what City want in terms of games.

If true, we're a complete shambles.

Surely the x number of games routine would have dropped up as an issue early on in the proceedings not suddenly before he joins?

Like wasting a month trying to get Assombalonga then deciding his wages were prohibitive.

Rather than prices come down they are actually more likely to go up in the coming week. Sellers know we are increasingly desperate and will play on that. We think we are clever but will end up with egg all over our faces. Mowbray will try to cover for it by coming up with some weird and wacky way to incorporate the existing players into a competent defence.

Exciting.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, JHRover said:

So just so I'm clear.

We've spent 1 year pursuing Patrick Bauer. Failed to agree a fee to get him last summer or January so stuck it out only to watch him join PNE because we told him he would be sat on the bench as '3rd choice' CB behind the dreadful defence of last season. He didn't fancy coming here as '3rd choice' so joins that lot up the road instead.

Having missed out on a long term target and seemingly having no other irons in the fire we then go after this lad from City on loan. Get him down to Brockhall, get everything up and running but then the deal falls through at the last minute because we can't or won't promise what City want in terms of games.

If true, we're a complete shambles.

Surely the x number of games routine would have dropped up as an issue early on in the proceedings not suddenly before he joins?

Like wasting a month trying to get Assombalonga then deciding his wages were prohibitive.

Rather than prices come down they are actually more likely to go up in the coming week. Sellers know we are increasingly desperate and will play on that. We think we are clever but will end up with egg all over our faces. Mowbray will try to cover for it by coming up with some weird and wacky way to incorporate the existing players into a competent defence.

Exciting.

Bauer was good have to fight for his place. was he up for the challenge? clearly not. gone to North End. 

Maybe City change the terms or the player didn't want to come after talks. who knows. maybe Mowbray will discuss it tomorrow. 

did we ever want Assombalonga considering his wages? was going to happen in a month of Sundays. 

Millwall need 1st choice keeper, left back and centre midfielder. 

Look at Cook's comments or the actually transfers that have happen so far this summer. Nothing outstanding and where the transfer business of a club stand out. Some people will point out Stoke transfers but for me, their signings are squad/back up players mainly apart from Powell. 

[Mercer]

Great post from JHRover.

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

It may not be true in this case but big clubs insisting on their players being automatic starters at other clubs is another symptom of football as a huge failure.

Talk wanting your cake and eating it too.

If he’s good enough, he will play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Provided he breaks into Mowbray’s inner circle and not his packet of chocolate digestives.

I actually completely disagree with the criticism of Premier League Clubs loaning out their youngsters, if anything, even though there will be a sizeable loan fee involved,  they're still doing Clubs further down the Leagues a massive favour by lending them their players then subsidising a huge chunk of their wages. For the smaller Club then to leave them out or use the player simply to fill their Bench is the ultimate show of disrespect imo. I think it is only fair to have provisos about game time built in to these type of deals.

If you don't like it, go out and sign and buy your own player outright! 

Im not that bothered if the City lad doesn't come, it's no surprise the deal has floundered, he'd only have been a squad filler in TM's eyes and  I'm not sure he's  what we needed in any event.

 I think we'll struggle to get loans from any PL Clubs bearing in mind Mowbray's attitude about incoming players having to dislodge those already here and the way we treated Palmer last season and Barrow in the past.

What say though the "Mowbray can do no wrong" brigade who were cock a hoop  about the prospect of us signing a guy "who played 36 games in a team that finished in the play offs?"

We've now missed out on our 2 main targets in defence Bauer (who we chased unsuccessfully for 12 months) and a young loanee who we subsequently made our new number one target.

Cause for concern yet?

Or like last season are Waggott and Mowbray simply going to have to go back cap in hand to the owners at the eleventh hour and say "Please Sir (or Madam) can I have some more?"

Edit: I see JH Rover beat me to much of the above whilst I was typing!

Edited July 26, 2019 by RevidgeBlue

[Crimpshrine]

Just now, JHRover said:

 

Having missed out on a long term target and seemingly having no other irons in the fire we then go after this lad from City on loan. Get him down to Brockhall, get everything up and running but then the deal falls through at the last minute because we can't or won't promise what City want in terms of games.

 

The main reason we are such a shambles is the lack of infrastructure at the club. We only have Mowbray and Waggott to sort all the finer details of transfers etc 

There should be a whole team of staff doing this sort of work. Mowbray's job should be to suggest players he would like to get in and then get on with managing the team. The backroom staff should take it from there. We simply are very badly run and lacking in certain areas.

[Exiled_Rover]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

It may not be true in this case but big clubs insisting on their players being automatic starters at other clubs is another symptom of football as a huge failure.

Talk wanting your cake and eating it too.

If he’s good enough, he will play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Provided he breaks into Mowbray’s inner circle and not his packet of chocolate digestives.

Zero problem with that, to be honest. They're loaning us a talent we couldn't dream of pulling on our shirt (as we've fallen that far in a decade). In return they want a guarantee that he'll play and, therefore, develop.

If he's not up to snuff we send him back, ala Palmer. Why you wouldn't make the promise that he plays X number of games at this stage is beyond me. 

[JHRover]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Bauer was good have to fight for his place. was he up for the challenge? clearly not. gone to North End. 

Maybe City change the terms or the player didn't want to come after talks. who knows. maybe Mowbray will discuss it tomorrow. 

did we ever want Assombalonga considering his wages? was going to happen in a month of Sundays. 

Millwall need 1st choice keeper, left back and centre midfielder. 

Look at Cook's comments or the actually transfers that have happen so far this summer. Nothing outstanding and where the transfer business of a club stand out. Some people will point out Stoke transfers but for me, their signings are squad/back up players mainly apart from Powell. 

I don't understand your first sentence. Do you believe he is contractually guaranteed a place in their team every week? 

If City are moving the goalposts then perhaps the lesson to learn is not to rely on loans and to actually get your players signed up so you don't have to worry about parent clubs making such demands. Can hardly blame them really given the way things went with Palmer, Byrne, Samuelson etc. who were all welcomed in as great signings but contributed nothing. 

If Assombalonga was never going to happen due to wages then why was there so much media coverage about us being after him and I recall Mowbray saying we were keen? Kept the fans excited through January though so job done. 

Interesting that you criticised me not long ago for comparing our actions to other rival clubs yet you are now using a couple of other clubs as examples to try and show things are ok here. Both those clubs haven't been equipped with £15 million to spread around 3 attacking signings in the last two summers so the comparisons end there.

[Mercer]

Just now, Crimpshrine said:

The main reason we are such a shambles is the lack of infrastructure at the club. We only have Mowbray and Waggott to sort all the finer details of transfers etc 

There should be a whole team of staff doing this sort of work. Mowbray's job should be to suggest players he would like to get in and then get on with managing the team. The backroom staff should take it from there. We simply are very badly run and lacking in certain areas.

Have said for some time that, IMO, we are severely undermanaged.

Yes you need the right number of people in the right roles but, more importantly, you need the right quality!

I look at our executive management and the management/coaches on ther football side and to be brutally honest, if it was down to me, I'd sack the feckin lot with the exception of Johnno.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Crimpshrine said:

The main reason we are such a shambles is the lack of infrastructure at the club. We only have Mowbray and Waggott to sort all the finer details of transfers etc 

There should be a whole team of staff doing this sort of work. Mowbray's job should be to suggest players he would like to get in and then get on with managing the team. The backroom staff should take it from there. We simply are very badly run and lacking in certain areas.

Oh come on, I know it's fashionable to bash the owners for everything that happens but this isn't too difficult a concept.

Waggott should be close enough to Mowbray to know his attitude on exactly where any potential incoming would stand. Assuming  penalty clauses for limited game time for loanees are not uncommon, that should have been the first question we asked Citeh.

If it's likely to be a problem move on immediately. Not spend an endless amount of time on the deal then draw a blank.

[Crimpshrine]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Oh come on, I know it's fashionable to bash the owners for everything that happens but this isn't too difficult a concept.

Waggott should be close enough to Mowbray to know his attitude on exactly where any potential incoming would stand. Assuming  penalty clauses for limited game time for loanees are not uncommon, that should have been the first question we asked Citeh.

If it's likely to be a problem move on immediately. Not spend an endless amount of time on the deal then draw a blank.

like I said, and I think you are agreeing, 'We simply are very badly run and lacking in certain areas'

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, JHRover said:

I don't understand your first sentence. Do you believe he is contractually guaranteed a place in their team every week? 

If City are moving the goalposts then perhaps the lesson to learn is not to rely on loans and to actually get your players signed up so you don't have to worry about parent clubs making such demands. Can hardly blame them really given the way things went with Palmer, Byrne, Samuelson etc. who were all welcomed in as great signings but contributed nothing. 

If Assombalonga was never going to happen due to wages then why was there so much media coverage about us being after him and I recall Mowbray saying we were keen? Kept the fans excited through January though so job done. 

Interesting that you criticised me not long ago for comparing our actions to other rival clubs yet you are now using a couple of other clubs as examples to try and show things are ok here. Both those clubs haven't been equipped with £15 million to spread around 3 attacking signings in the last two summers so the comparisons end there.

Sounds like he didnt want to fight for his spot..was never player I felt we going to better than Mulgrew or Lenihan. More of back up imo.

What media coverage? I dont recall a great deal. Maybe I didnt get caught up in all the media coverage due to my thought it would never happen due to his wages. If thats was the case my apologises.

I do agree we shouldnt rely on loan players and never back to the Coyle time where we have 6 loans at one point. 

How much did Stoke spend on Vokes(7 mil), Afode(12 mil) Ince(10 mil), McClean(5 mil), Clucas(6mil)? Thats 40 million pounds in 1 season. And couldnt even get top half. Finish below us. 

.

[JHRover]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Sounds like he didnt want to fight for his spot..was never player I felt we going to better than Mulgrew or Lenihan. More of back up imo.

What media coverage? I dont recall a great deal. Maybe I didnt get caught up in all the media coverage due to my thought it would never happen due to his wages. If thats was the case my apologises.

I do agree we shouldnt rely on loan players and never back to the Coyle time where we have 6 loans at one point. 

How much did Stoke spend on Vokes(7 mil), Afode(12 mil) Ince(10 mil), McClean(5 mil), Clucas(6mil)? Thats 40 million pounds in 1 season. And couldnt even get top half. Finish below us. 

.

I'm a bit worried that we spent so long and so much effort going after a CB who was supposedly nothing more than cover, failed to get him, haven't got anyone else in. This despite the manager saying we needed players to play ahead of those here last season. Completely baffling.

There was a lot of stuff in the papers in January about Assombalonga and I recall either Mowbray or Waggott effectively confirming we were interested but couldn't go ahead due to his wages,

[Neal]

2 hours ago, Ricky said:

Jake Cooper you say......... ON EVERY SINGLE POST!!!!  

In all seriousness though, have we actually been linked to him? Genuine question as it’s not a name I’m overly familiar with. We really don’t seem to have been linked to many CBs at all which is a bit of a concern as I think we all know we need at least one.

Mowbray confirmed we'd be interested in Cooper at the last fans meeting, so he's well aware of him and may even asked the question, I wouldn't be surprised. 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Neal

[roverandout]

9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Mowbray is so transparent now it's painful to listen to or accept.

He simply will not bring In players who are massive improvements on the core group he inherited when he took over. He only ever talks about providing "competition" within the squad. Any big money is spent on younger players with possible potential who can be played out of position or left out altogether and simply placed in the category of "one for the future".

That way TM keeps the owners partially happy by spending some money which they probably expect of him, keep expectations relatively low which protects his own position, and at the same time his old favourites aren't replaced or affected.

Just looking after his own back. He's not honourable at all. He's a chancer like every other no-mark manager we have had since big Sam. Possibly the worst manager since kean

[Maji]

9 hours ago, 47er said:

Mulgrew is injury prone though. And Linihen was out for a fair while early last season too. Also Mulgrew looked like he couldn't perform well enough at this level anymore and that's why TM dropped now.

 

And I'm frustrated because I simply do not understand it. Its not as if we've had no money to spend is it?

You raise an interesting point with the comment in regards injuries. Williams, Lenihan & Charlie have all had spells out injured. We are screwed if that happens.

We'll end up playing a 2-3-5 at this rate, ossie ardilles style ?

 

People will get frustrated, God knows I am, others will remain calm. I wish differences could be better appreciated.

No-one should take the above personally.