Summer Transfer Window 2019

[JBiz]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Trip you up? It’s called debating, the point of a forum, get used to it!

So it wasn’t just because Farke knows Germany. The Championship is a fast moving division, teams move and rebuild quickly. No time for ‘slow builds’.

We work at a snail’s pace and we will forever be also rans as a result.

I’m more used to debates when something more than a simple question comes back.

It wasn’t just down to Farke either, let’s not forget Norwich at the time; a well supported, recently relegated and expensive squad. 

More to invest, more continuity in design, owners likely using a far better model.

I feel like I’m always repeating myself, but it’s never simple or easy. We’ve a long way to claw back. 

Just now, JHRover said:

Southampton were taken over and within a couple of years had back to back promotions to the Premier League. 

Who is suggesting rebooting and clearing out? 

If results aren't good enough the manager goes. His job is to coach and get results and if they aren't up to scratch it's his head on the block. 

It's only because we persist with this mental archaic all powerful manager system that Mowbray is presiding over scouting. Normally that would be an independent department working in conjunction with the manager, not dependent on him.

There’s plenty of crossover TM out stuff, you must’ve ignored the thread JHR - admiring you on that!

The “mental archaic all powerful manager system” is a way of putting it - I agree, I’d love a top class system above him, between the owners (or just new owners entirely).

However I do think we’ve made massive strides in lots of ways since he rocked up. The overall recruitment and squad shaping, for me hasn’t been far off.

Its not wrong to expect more though;

 

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Bielek is going to be a class act in the future. That's a really good signing in my opinion.

@JHRover a CB that cost Derby (let’s say one of our main teams to usurp) nearly 10m? Hardly ever played championship football?

Extremely competitive business is football.

[AllRoverAsia]

 

 

 

 

 

 

4

Just now, JHRover said:

Southampton were taken over and within a couple of years had back to back promotions to the Premier League. 

Who is suggesting rebooting and clearing out? 

If results aren't good enough the manager goes. His job is to coach and get results and if they aren't up to scratch it's his head on the block. 

It's only because we persist with this mental archaic all powerful manager system that Mowbray is presiding over scouting. Normally that would be an independent department working in conjunction with the manager, not dependent on him.

Mowbray made damn sure he was the Godfather when he orchestrated the departure of Paul Senior, the man who had sourced him, and appointed Waggott as his CEO and Venus as his chief scout. It dismays me that so many fans buy so readily into the nice guy nonsense but if something is said enough times it becomes true and I have to say Mowbray's own self-promotion and that of his lackeys at the LT is top draw. He is going nowhere anytime soon, 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

I’m more used to debates when something more than a simple question comes back.

It wasn’t just down to Farke either, let’s not forget Norwich at the time; a well supported, recently relegated and expensive squad. 

More to invest, more continuity in design, owners likely using a far better model.

I feel like I’m always repeating myself, but it’s never simple or easy. We’ve a long way to claw back. 

There’s plenty of crossover TM out stuff, you must’ve ignored the thread JHR - admiring you on that!

The “mental archaic all powerful manager system” is a way of putting it - I agree, I’d love a top class system above him, between the owners (or just new owners entirely).

However I do think we’ve made massive strides in lots of ways since he rocked up. The overall recruitment and squad shaping, for me hasn’t been far off.

Its not wrong to expect more though;

 

@JHRover a CB that cost Derby (let’s say one of our main teams to usurp) nearly 10m? Hardly ever played championship football?

Extremely competitive business is football.

Bielek has what all good defenders have - a sense of the danger that may ensue before it actually happens. He's also got good pace, know's when to stick and when to twist on and off the ball, he's decent in the air and in the tackle but most of all he reads the game well for a young player. That's something that the likes of Phil Jones and Lenihan have never learnt.

[1864roverite]

10 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Tom Lawrence double for Derby. Lots of Rovers fans were glad to see the back of him. 

after he fluffed that chance v burnely and rightly so !

[roversfan99]

If as Waggotts comments suggest we are not going to further improve the defence after signing a kid with minimal experience at CB at professional level, and a keeper who doesnt seem to be an upgrade, both on loan, then for me that is the final straw in terms of having faith in Mowbray for all the good he has undoubtedly done in pushing us forward, because we quite simply wont get near the targets he has set with this defence. And theres no excuse, whether individual targets have got away or whatever, when hes not spent a penny in fees on the defence seen we came up, but has spent 14m on attackers. Hes also gone back on a promise he made when he was far from ambigious in stating that our defenders were not good enough.

Waggott himself also has a lot to answer for. He quite clearly said we have a similar budget and unless his comments in the LT today are a smokescreen that was a total lie. We signed 2 loan deals this season and last season, all from Prem clubs that you cant imagine there being a huge difference in between, and weve spent around 1.5m net this year and 10m last year. Without factoring in senior pros like Conway, Raya and Rodwell leaving, theres no way that surplus has all been eaten up by the difference between this years permanent signings wages (Gallagher, Johnson and Downing) and last years. (Brereton, Armstrong, Davenport, Rothwell and Rodwell) If we have very little budget pre sales then just say that rather than lieing.

[JBiz]

In terms of “installing Venus as chief scout”;

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/stuart-harvey-a1021a93

The head of recruitment has been at Ewood longer than both.

[1864roverite]

15 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Share issue to parent company Venky's London Limited who in turn lend the money to The Blackburn Rovers and Athletic Limited.

Think that makes it about £22million in the last 12 months.

Most likely explanation is that it's to ensure we have sufficient working capital to cover the huge ongoing losses since Venky's became owners. 

Issued share capital now circa £174million - a staggering number for a club of our size.

If only they could turn the clock back then I am sure Big Sam would have been our manager for a number of years after his departure.

Not sure when the Rupee will drop!

its their money and ultimately its THEIR debt as well. 

[Mattyblue]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

I’m more used to debates when something more than a simple question comes back.

It wasn’t just down to Farke either, let’s not forget Norwich at the time; a well supported, recently relegated and expensive squad. 

More to invest, more continuity in design, owners likely using a far better model.

I

Yes 20,000+ gates. However, they were on the verge of administration when the club pivoted quickly to the new approach and received immediate dividends.

The Championship is a constant churn. No time to ‘build’ as players quickly go over the hill - Mulgrew, or leave, Dack after this season? Young players that are brought in just don’t develop and on it goes, you chase your tail. Ergo successful clubs are usually signing up players that know the division or go abroad for bargains.

Waiting years for a scouting set up? Fine, but don’t expect much progress.

 

[JBiz]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Bielek has what all good defenders have - a sense of the danger that may ensue before it actually happens. He's also got good pace, know's when to stick and when to twist on and off the ball, he's decent in the air and in the tackle but most of all he reads the game well for a young player. That's something that the likes of Phil Jones and Lenihan have never learnt.

Isn’t he 6 foot 9 or something too?

I think Adarabioyo will turn out a decent acquisition over the season, the point with Bielek was showing how much some of the available players are, even without recent international or championship experience.

[Mercer]

Just now, 1864roverite said:

its their money and ultimately its THEIR debt as well. 

and I think there will come a tipping point firstly for Mowbray (sooner than some may think) and secondly for our club.

IMO, they will not continue chucking away some £20million / season for much longer. 

[tomphil]

Just now, Mercer said:

and I think there will come a tipping point firstly for Mowbray (sooner than some may think) and secondly for our club.

IMO, they will not continue chucking away some £20million / season for much longer. 

There won't be a tipping point they are running money through the books and are happy to do so. I think losing interest would be the main factor before anything else but that would probably follow a period of neglect like we had a few years ago.

In the meantime they are welcome to keep pissing it up the wall sooner or later we'll get someone who knows how best to use it. 

I do agree though Mowbray isn't that man !

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 minutes ago, Harry The Bass said:

Isn’t he 6 foot 9 or something too?

I think Adarabioyo will turn out a decent acquisition over the season, the point with Bielek was showing how much some of the available players are, even without recent international or championship experience.

Yeah, he's quite tall but it's his all around game I was impressed with. Sell Lenihan, don't buy Gallagher and you've got most of the fee. I've not seen our new loanee play yet but given the choice of the two I would have had Bielek every time. At least we know what he's capable of.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[CambridgeRover]

17 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I think it's more a case that the budget isn't there to fund transfers.

It's all contradictory.  Didn't Mowbray say we had to sell Raya to fund other signings?

Been saying most of the summer I thought we'd barely a transfer pot to p1ss in.  Also said I thought we were now at the stage where every £1 spent on fees / wages had to at least been matched by the same in on fees / savings on wages.  Sadly, I think I might be proven to be correct.  

I think you are right Mercer. However, the club needs to be careful in not hyping up expectations too much. Some of the comments from Waggott and Mowbray have seemed to imply the existent of more money then there is. Then when the transfers don't happen people are confused and annoyed

[JHRover]

Just now, Mercer said:

and I think there will come a tipping point firstly for Mowbray (sooner than some may think) and secondly for our club.

IMO, they will not continue chucking away some £20million / season for much longer. 

In my interpretation it's all in place for another phase of slash and burn. We had the 2 years of growth under Bowyer then 12 months of cashing in the chips to cover it and sadly I expect a similar turn of events. They've even got a ready made excuse with Ffp and people feeling sorry for them for tipping in the running cost money every year because without them we'd be bust. Apparently.

2 years ago other than a raw Lenihan there was nothing on the books. Now they've Lenihan and Dack on decent contracts, Trav who will be worth a fortune soon, Gallagher who is one decent season away from doubling what we paid for him. Add in young Buckley, Brereton and Armstrong- decent seasons and they're worth good money and its looking good for cashing in.

They'll probably have to get shut of Mowbray before that starts or at least not invite him to India like they did with Bowyer. Cowardly too.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

42 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Surely nobody actually expected us to be challenging this season? 

Nowhere near enough improvement from a team that were 15th last season.

With the right additions I think we could have challenged the top 6. 

[jim mk2]

I prefer the all-powerful manager. Running a football club by committee with DoFs may be the modern way and might work for some clubs but you only have to look 10 miles down the road to Burnley to see how a top-class manager can transform even the most unpromising clubs. I would have trusted a top football man like Sam Allardyce to have to run Ewood from top to bottom, like Ferguson at Old Trafford. 

You can have a great "system" in place with scouting and coaching teams but unless you get the right manager, you're not going to get anywhere.  

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

I’m more used to debates when something more than a simple question comes back.

It wasn’t just down to Farke either, let’s not forget Norwich at the time; a well supported, recently relegated and expensive squad. 

More to invest, more continuity in design, owners likely using a far better model.

I feel like I’m always repeating myself, but it’s never simple or easy. We’ve a long way to claw back. 

There’s plenty of crossover TM out stuff, you must’ve ignored the thread JHR - admiring you on that!

The “mental archaic all powerful manager system” is a way of putting it - I agree, I’d love a top class system above him, between the owners (or just new owners entirely).

However I do think we’ve made massive strides in lots of ways since he rocked up. The overall recruitment and squad shaping, for me hasn’t been far off.

Its not wrong to expect more though;

 

@JHRover a CB that cost Derby (let’s say one of our main teams to usurp) nearly 10m? Hardly ever played championship football?

Extremely competitive business is football.

This is where things blur.  There was talk of the lad from Croatia - Skoric.  No nonsense defender, captain and 29 so bags of experience.  Can't imagine he's on a fortune in that league and would probably jump at the chance of move.  Fee would realistically be the lower side of £2mil.  May not be a world beater but could he strengthen a championship side- undoubtedly.  

Exactly the type of player we should be looking at.

Certainly more chance of making an instant impact and us more competitive than a young lad from the Prem at £10 mil who may or not be the next great thing.

However, we've seen an absolute reluctance to buy a player at that age - no doubt due to lack of a future transfer profit. 

Semi Ajayi is another who would have been a great and affordable (given what we spent on Gallagher) signing.  Offering instant improvement on what we had.

Our transfer strategy worked best when cherry picking the best players from clubs lower than us.  There's a lot throughout Europe!  It's how we got our 2 best signings in Dack and Rothwell.   

We don't have the financial muscle to compete with teams around or above us.  If we do sign anybody from those clubs, we either overpay (Brereton) or end up with players deemed no longer good enough at this level (Downing).  

I expect we will sign a player, possibly two but again these probably won't be the type that we fans expect or fill positions that are needed.    They will be players with potential, who can play several positions - made with future value in mind. Rather than players who will slot in straight away and help win matches.

 

[JHRover]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

I prefer the all-powerful manager. Running a football club by committee with DoFs may be the modern way and might work for some clubs but you only have to look 10 miles down the road to Burnley to see how a top-class manager can transform even the most unpromising clubs. I would have trusted a top football man like Sam Allardyce to have to run Ewood from top to bottom, like Ferguson at Old Trafford. 

You can have a great "system" in place with scouting and coaching teams but unless you get the right manager, you're not going to get anywhere.  

Let's suppose Dyche walks out tomorrow. Does Burnley's entire footballing operation go up in smoke? No. Whilst Dyche runs the show they also have board and structure that will ensure continuity or at least minimum disruption.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, JHRover said:

Let's suppose Dyche walks out tomorrow. Does Burnley's entire footballing operation go up in smoke? No. Whilst Dyche runs the show they also have board and structure that will ensure continuity or at least minimum disruption.

Mm, well we can live in hope. How long did it take the Chicken Chokers to trash Rovers ? What was that ex player called they appointed when Coyle left ? That was knee jerk reaction if ever I saw one. Having said that their last two appointments have been smart moves. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Mm, well we can live in hope. How long did it take the Chicken Chokers to trash Rovers ? What was that ex player called they appointed when Coyle left ? That was knee jerk reaction if ever I saw one. Having said that their last two appointments have been smart moves. 



Brian Laws

[AllRoverAsia]

21 minutes ago, Harry The Bass said:

In terms of “installing Venus as chief scout”;

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/stuart-harvey-a1021a93

The head of recruitment has been at Ewood longer than both.

Smoke and Mirrors.

[Vilesinner]

Just now, JHRover said:

Let's suppose Dyche walks out tomorrow. Does Burnley's entire footballing operation go up in smoke? No. Whilst Dyche runs the show they also have board and structure that will ensure continuity or at least minimum disruption.

Yes, our operation went up in smoke when King Kenny left, and we were in a far superior situation than they are now.

[jim mk2]

Just now, JHRover said:

Let's suppose Dyche walks out tomorrow. Does Burnley's entire footballing operation go up in smoke? No. Whilst Dyche runs the show they also have board and structure that will ensure continuity or at least minimum disruption.

Then you come back to the ownership problem. Burnley's off-field system however will count for nothing if they get the managerial appointment wrong. Swansea were a model for many years with their chairman Huw Edwards (?) identifying a succession of promising young managers - Martinez, Rodgers etc.

I accept that basic structures have to be in place to make Rovers successful, and it's likely they are not at present, but that all comes from not having a strong and intelligent manager. 

[1864roverite]

27 minutes ago, Mercer said:

and I think there will come a tipping point firstly for Mowbray (sooner than some may think) and secondly for our club.

IMO, they will not continue chucking away some £20million / season for much longer. 

YET Merc they still fund the club ? Lets be real about the actual money they do put into BRFC. Its a drop in the ocean to what they actually earn as an overall business worldwide with many linked companies etc. Its a tax write off at worst. If the pot ever runs dry then venkys will have gone bust worldwide which on the fact of it is never going to happen as they have total dominance in poultry/animal vaccine/medicines as well as their other ventures. 

As for TM some are way ahead of themselves. We have lost 1 game and the critics are out in force. If we go onto win a number of games, Brereton and Gally score a few, Dack and Downing are the supply line then a few on here will eat their words. Me? I see it happening and whilst I am not overly concerned about any chances of Rovers being in a relegation scrap I really do think we are capable of a top 6 finish. It will take a few weeks to get into stride but I am certain we have much better players than some on here think we have.

[RoverAbroad]

1 hour ago, Harry The Bass said:

Aren’t we less than 2 years into a complete rebuild of the recruitment department? Surely will take years to get working properly?

No idea what you are talking about here. It's getting a few scouts in to look for some players, not building the Great Wall of China.