Match Thread Rotherham away

[Stuart]

  On 03/03/2019 at 07:57, Parsonblue said:

It's called having an opinion Mercer.  I still believe he is the right man for the job.  He said it would be a slow, gradual build.  That is what the owners have bought into and personally he should be given the opportunity to see it through.  You may find him uninspiring, that's your view, others have a different view.  

The summer will see a number of changes to the squad and I'll judge him this time next year.  Personally, I think he has done enough to deserve longer to see his proposed changes through.  

Coyle over Mowbray?  Really?  That's a serious proposition?

Ultimately it doesn't matter what you or I think.  It's the owners who will make the final judgement.

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If he had continued the rebuild in January then I’d be more inclined to be patient with him. However, he did not do so when he had the opportunity (open window and money to spend). In fact, he did the exact opposite by loaning out defenders, and now he had begun a narrative of blaming the players.

This does not feel like a gradual build but a stagnation. I think Mowbray has taken this club as far as he can and we will now watch him try to flog a dead horse. His loyalty, to players like Smallwood - as well as his coaching staff will be his undoing.

There looks to be no imagination, no energy, no belief. We look second best in every game and we seem to be back to the bad old days of Bowyer looking st every other team as a threat to be countered rather than plotting a way to win. Yet the teams he picks leak goal after goal. Yesterday took 2 minutes!

[RV Blue]

  On 02/03/2019 at 20:37, Parsonblue said:

Rotherham's centre-half didn't have the footballing skills of Mulgrew or Rodwell but he headed and kicked everything away when he had to and then went up the other end to head home two goals. 

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The lads who scored the 2 goals is called Ajayi, he played in midfield and was the best player on the pitch by some distance. I know you like a good day out but do you actually watch the game when you go? I came away thinking that we could do worse than going for Ajayi in the summer as a Smallwood/Evans replacement, you came away thinking that he was a neanderthal centre half who couldn’t play on the deck. A bit embarrassing for someone with such self-proclaimed footballing knowledge.

Edited March 3, 2019 by RV Blue

[blueboy3333]

  On 03/03/2019 at 08:59, chaddyrovers said:

The players need to man up and start defending properly. The manager told them.what to expect and they didnt listen. Mulgrew and Rodwell are experience enough. Raya needs to dropping. 1st goal he starts coming for the ball then stop starts. 2nd goal should get come and claim the ball. 3rd goal Nyambe and Rodwell should do much better

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They've been defending like that all season. Mowbray has done nothing about it. Let's not re-write history. 

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

  On 03/03/2019 at 08:59, chaddyrovers said:

The players need to man up and start defending properly. The manager told them.what to expect and they didnt listen. Mulgrew and Rodwell are experience enough. Raya needs to dropping. 1st goal he starts coming for the ball then stop starts. 2nd goal should get come and claim the ball. 3rd goal Nyambe and Rodwell should do much better

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Stockholm syndrome. There is no hope for you my friend. 

[Reedy You're A Star]

They've been defending like that for 2 seasons. It's just League 1 teams were too shit to capitalise.

[Ewood Ace]

  On 03/03/2019 at 08:59, chaddyrovers said:

The players need to man up and start defending properly. The manager told them.what to expect and they didnt listen. Mulgrew and Rodwell are experience enough. Raya needs to dropping. 1st goal he starts coming for the ball then stop starts. 2nd goal should get come and claim the ball. 3rd goal Nyambe and Rodwell should do much better

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Why are Mulgrew and Rodwell in a position where they are practically undroppable? Because the manager let centre backs go out on loan in January and failed to bring anyone in. Raya has needed dropping for a few weeks now, why hasn't the manager done it?

[Sparks Rover]

  On 03/03/2019 at 08:59, chaddyrovers said:

The players need to man up and start defending properly. 

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Man up? Are you suggesting they are good enough but decide to be a bit soft and wussy....?

In my opinion you are asking them to do something they aren't capable of and mowbray should walk because he's the reason

[chaddyrovers]

  On 03/03/2019 at 09:22, Ewood Ace said:

Why are Mulgrew and Rodwell in a position where they are practically undroppable? Because the manager let centre backs go out on loan in January and failed to bring anyone in. Raya has needed dropping for a few weeks now, why hasn't the manager done it?

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I expect Raya to be drop for Preston game. Think Mowbray has lost his patience now. 

We are badly missing Lenihan. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

  On 03/03/2019 at 09:23, Sparks Rover said:

Man up? Are you suggesting they are good enough but decide to be a bit soft and wussy....?

In my opinion you are asking them to do something they aren't capable of and mowbray should walk because he's the reason

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Mulgrew is struggling and wouldnt head the ball against Boro. Why? 

Mulgrew and Rodwell are experience players and we needed them to step up and be solid enough. 

We all knew what to expect from Rotherham but certain players let us down

[Amo]

  On 03/03/2019 at 08:59, chaddyrovers said:

The players need to man up and start defending properly. The manager told them.what to expect and they didnt listen. Mulgrew and Rodwell are experience enough. Raya needs to dropping. 1st goal he starts coming for the ball then stop starts. 2nd goal should get come and claim the ball. 3rd goal Nyambe and Rodwell should do much better

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So when we had that purple patch, Mowbray was entitled to take the plaudits but now it's all gone tits up it's the players' faults? That's convenient.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Amo

[blueboy3333]

  On 03/03/2019 at 09:25, chaddyrovers said:

I expect Raya to be drop for Preston game. Think Mowbray has lost his patience now. 

We are badly missing Lenihan. 

 

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Fancy building a squad with only 1 good CB. Poor management when you've had the luxury of spending £7m on a reserve striker. 

[Ewood Ace]

  On 03/03/2019 at 09:27, chaddyrovers said:

Mulgrew is struggling and wouldnt head the ball against Boro. Why? 

Mulgrew and Rodwell are experience players and we needed them to step up and be solid enough. 

We all knew what to expect from Rotherham but certain players let us down

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But Rodwell is not a centre back, its another example of Mowbray playing square pegs in round holes and it has been a failed experiment. The managers negligence in the January window in killing us one injury to Lenihan and we are having to play a midfielder at centre back alongside a terribly out of form Mulgrew but he won't drop either as he doesn't have faith in Magloire and we let our next best centre back go out on loan for some bizarre reason.

[arbitro]

  On 03/03/2019 at 09:18, blueboy3333 said:

They've been defending like that all season. Mowbray has done nothing about it. Let's not re-write history. 

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It started last season when, for a team who finished runners up we conceded too many goals. We got away with it last year because of the poor quality of opposition. We shouldn't have to be scoring three or four to win a game. And the buck stops with Mowbray who seems to be passing that buck.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

  On 03/03/2019 at 07:57, Parsonblue said:

Ultimately it doesn't matter what you or I think.  It's the owners who will make the final judgement.

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Then God help us all Parsons,God help us all!

[jim mk2]

  On 03/03/2019 at 07:57, Parsonblue said:

It's called having an opinion Mercer.  I still believe he is the right man for the job.  He said it would be a slow, gradual build.  That is what the owners have bought into and personally he should be given the opportunity to see it through.  You may find him uninspiring, that's your view, others have a different view.  

The summer will see a number of changes to the squad and I'll judge him this time next year.  Personally, I think he has done enough to deserve longer to see his proposed changes through.  

Coyle over Mowbray?  Really?  That's a serious proposition?

Ultimately it doesn't matter what you or I think.  It's the owners who will make the final judgement.

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A "slow, gradual build" implies progress but his team isn't making progress at all, in fact it's going backwards. We're in a terrible rut at present and the same old failings occur every week with no sign that Mowbray knows how to fix them. There's some old heads on here who are tearing their hair out at the collective and individual mistakes going on in the defence.

Judging Mowbray this time next season will probably be far too late. I'd say the alarm bells are ringing loud and clear now.  

Edited March 3, 2019 by jim mk2

[LDRover]

  On 03/03/2019 at 08:13, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Not meaning to be critical @Parsonblue but look at the team yesterday but what has changed from two years ago? I know Mowbray says he wants slow change but in these two years there has been minimal changes to formation, tactics and personnel in the first XI. 

If there were some evidence then I could buy it but I generally can't see any

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I did ask a similar question earlier. Don't hold your breath for a response.

[Ewood Ace]

  On 03/03/2019 at 08:13, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Not meaning to be critical @Parsonblue but look at the team yesterday but what has changed from two years ago? I know Mowbray says he wants slow change but in these two years there has been minimal changes to formation, tactics and personnel in the first XI. 

If there were some evidence then I could buy it but I generally can't see any

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I don't think that this team is much better if at all than the team that went down despite the money that has been spent over the last 2 years. The League is certainly weaker though than the season that we went down.

[JHRover]

I too am getting tired of this 'chance to prove themselves' concept - that we have basically awarded an entire Championship season to a group of players who might not be good enough just to give them a chance to see if they can do it. The club is more important than any player and the manager should be recruiting to put the club in the best position possible, not to allow certain players a chance to prove themselves.

Who are these people who Mowbray wanted to give a season to see if they could do it?

Mulgrew, Lenihan, Evans, Conway, Graham, Bennett, Williams - all very experienced Championship players who were regulars in our relegation season including under this manager.

The only players who are playing regularly for us who haven't done at this level before are Dack and Armstrong and I'd say they are of the least concern at this moment in time as they have shown they are able to do it at this level.

Who else? Smallwood had has opportunity in the Championship at yesterdays opposition - Rotherham - who got rid of him despite being one of the worst sides in Championship history.

Harrison Reed - clearly good enough for this league in a multitude of positions but it now seems is being ostracized - I suspect because either he's not happy with being shunted out wide every week or because Mowbray knows he won't be here next season.

I can't see who else is new to this league who is being afforded time to prove themselves. It's a nonsense.

Even if it was true - the manager has blown the 'opportunity' concept out of the water by awarding all the players multi-year contracts BEFORE the season began - which suggests he believed they were good enough before the season began.

I'm afraid I don't accept that our defensive woes are simply a result of not having enough players and it will all be solved as soon as we sign a few replacements. I think it is a result of poor coaching and I think whoever we have in the team we will leak goals because of the way we play and the way we set up. We're a confused mess and it certainly doesn't help matters when we're chopping and changing formations, positions and systems 2-3 times a game every game. It confuses me at times what we are doing and playing so i expect the players are probably in a similar position.

Awful game management, but this has been the problem now for well over a year and nothing has really changed except it seems confidence has now been shot to pieces.

I've no faith whatsoever that the owners will make enough money available to overhaul the squad and bring in the 7+ decent players needed. They'll talk the talk about making money available but it rarely materialises except for vanity projects like a 'star' striker.

This run of results is dreadful. Even on the rare occasions we've got into a good position like yesterday at 1-1 or last week at 2-1 with less than 10 minutes to go we've immediately collapsed upon the opposition applying minimal pressure. 

I don't accept we are safe yet, and I don't accept the next 11 games are irrelevant dead rubbers for the manager to experiment and go through the motions.

THESE ARE REAL COMPETITIVE CHAMPIONSHIP FIXTURES THAT THOUSANDS WILL BE PAYING MONEY TO WATCH AND EVERYONE - INCLUDING THE MANAGER - IS UNDER REVIEW - WE'VE 3 DERBY GAMES AT HOME AND IF WE APPROACH THOSE AS WE HAVE PERFORMED RECENTLY AND THE KNIVES WILL BE OUT. NO MANAGER SHOULD BE IMMUNE FROM THE SACK AND IF THIS RUN CONTINUES THROUGH MARCH AND APRIL THEN THERE SHOULD BE SERIOUS ALARM BELLS RINGING SOMEWHERE. 

Unfortunately thanks to our mental owners and the structure they have put in place I don't think the manager is really judged on results and so expecting a conventional chain of events to unfold here is unlikely.

[JHRover]

  On 03/03/2019 at 08:59, chaddyrovers said:

The players need to man up and start defending properly. The manager told them.what to expect and they didnt listen. Mulgrew and Rodwell are experience enough. Raya needs to dropping. 1st goal he starts coming for the ball then stop starts. 2nd goal should get come and claim the ball. 3rd goal Nyambe and Rodwell should do much better

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Unacceptable. IF the manager told them and they didn't listen then that suggests he has lost the dressing room.

The manager is responsible for the team and the results. If the players aren't good enough it is a failure of recruitment, for which the manager is responsible. 

[Parsonblue]

  On 03/03/2019 at 09:16, RV Blue said:

The lads who scored the 2 goals is called Ajayi, he played in midfield and was the best player on the pitch by some distance. I know you like a good day out but do you actually watch the game when you go? I came away thinking that we could do worse than going for Ajayi in the summer as a Smallwood/Evans replacement, you came away thinking that he was a neanderthal centre half who couldn’t play on the deck. A bit embarrassing for someone with such self-proclaimed footballing knowledge.

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For me he was playing as a shield in front of their back four.  Whenever we put the ball in the box or at set-pieces he dropped back and cleared everything.  He certainly wasn't a creative player in terms of creating chances or playing 50 yard passes which, in fairness, Rodwell did on more than one occasion, but that wasn't his role. With two centre-backs behind him he made a formidable defensive trio.   When he defended he cleared everything which is what he was asked to do.

[Guest]

A lot of people mentioning we defended and sat off last season and got away with it are spot on. I just find it ironic the one who seems to have been thrown under the bus most yesterday in Raya was single handedly responsible for us not throwing away leads.

Southend at home and MK Dons away off the top of my head were both games in the run in that he won us points on his own after our inability to defend under pressure. I’m personally happy with Raya and I blame Bell far more than I do him yesterday. As a defender you clear the ball when it’s near you in the box. It really is the most fundamental aspect of defending along with not allowing the ball to bounce. But, like any player, wouldn’t be against some serious competition for him or even a better keeper coming in. We need at least 4 defenders far more than we need a keeper in my opinion.

[Parsonblue]

  On 03/03/2019 at 08:13, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Not meaning to be critical @Parsonblue but look at the team yesterday but what has changed from two years ago? I know Mowbray says he wants slow change but in these two years there has been minimal changes to formation, tactics and personnel in the first XI. 

If there were some evidence then I could buy it but I generally can't see any

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Personally, I believe the club in general is in a much better place than it was two years ago.  The development squad looks strong and offers hope for the future.  At senior level, despite this awful recent run, I believe we are better than two years ago.  This season we only lost one of our opening ten games, but drew too many.  Since then results have been erratic - which is understandable for a club coming up - but we are on course to consolidate in terms of staying in the division although there is still work to do to ensure that.  Looking at the remaining fixtures of the club's below us I don't believe we need that many more points before we can start to give some of the younger players an opportunity.  At the moment we have too many players who have totally lost form - Raya, Mulgrew, Dack etc. were mainstays and now look very indifferent.

My main criticisms of the manager are in two areas.  Firstly I think he should have added a couple of players to the squad in January, particularly as we have ten players out on loan and two long term injuries.  Secondly, like Bob Saxton, I think he has been too loyal to one or two players.  Ultimately that did for Saxton and it will for Mowbray if he doesn't make changes in the summer.  I believe he knows that and I believe he will make changes.  Only time will tell if they are good enough but that's the same with any transfer and any manager.  

But in general, I believe the club as a whole is in a much better place than it was two years ago and Mowbray has had a large part to play in that.  I accept some will disagree but that's football - it's a game of opinions.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Parsonblue

[Ewood Ace]

  On 03/03/2019 at 12:03, OnePhilT said:

If you excelled at your job last year, I'd like to think that you were given a chance to make the next step up. Footballers get paid well, but they are also human beings. Mowbray has probably put too much trust in them, but I don't think he's done too much wrong - and valuably, he has more or less recognised his mistake.

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The trouble is that that a number of those that 'excelled' last year had the year before been a part of the side that had been relegated. I'm thinking the likes of Bennett, Williams, Evans, Mulgrew, Conway and Graham all were part of the relegation campaign and none are any better now than when we went down in fact a few of them are worse now, then you have Smallwood who has played a lot at this level and never set it alight which is we he dropped down to League 1.

Football is a ruthless game and if you want to compete you have to be ruthless, look at David Speedie a key part in our promotion to the Premier League yet he was swiftly moved on after promotion had been achieved to make way for a better player in Alan Shearer.

[Pedro]

  On 03/03/2019 at 07:02, blueboy3333 said:

A team is a reflection of the manager. The buck always stops with him. If it didn't we might as well have kept every shite manager we've ever had. 

And those gutless players were either bought by the manager or given contract extensions by him. He 'likes the group', he said so many times. He likes the players you call gutless. Whose fault is that? 

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I just don't agree sorry. A manager can advise, plan prepare etc. but can't influence someone dithering about in defence, not closing down space, lacking desire and aggression when attacking a high ball.  We've seen week in, week out that our players aren't mentally tough enough to see games through.  We've seen the keeper make unprovoked howlers, players shitting themselves when we concede, defenders hoofing it back to the opposition rather than making a simple pass - that isn't coached into them and it's clear we need more men/leaders on the pitch.  It's going to get nailbiting if they don't grow some nads very quickly.

[blueboy3333]

  On 03/03/2019 at 12:38, Pedro said:

I just don't agree sorry. A manager can advise, plan prepare etc. but can't influence someone dithering about in defence, not closing down space, lacking desire and aggression when attacking a high ball.  We've seen week in, week out that our players aren't mentally tough enough to see games through.  We've seen the keeper make unprovoked howlers, players shitting themselves when we concede, defenders hoofing it back to the opposition rather than making a simple pass - that isn't coached into them and it's clear we need more men/leaders on the pitch.  It's going to get nailbiting if they don't grow some nads very quickly.

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You don't agree with what? That he signed, coaches or gave extensions to practically everyone of those gutless players you're describing?