Match Thread Rotherham away

[USABlue]

8 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Watched Mulgrew for the first goal a few times - disgracefully pathetic. Follows some bloke back to our line, turns his back on the flight of the ball, stands there uselessly while the header goes in, then just trudges upfield like it had gone over the bar. He’s 6’4”, our main centre half, no hint of taking any responsibility at all for attacking that ball. Plus he was nowhere for the other two. Drop the bloody clown and his trick cornets. I’d even rather have Williams there.

Drinking already today? Or something stronger perhaps?

[USABlue]

9 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

It is no excuse for our display but like @Fraserkirky says that ref was appalling.

I often wonder what they think of their performance when watching a match replay, which I assume most do to satisfy their ego's.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all do our jobs so poorly then if our boss said anything we could have him fined or suspended.  They need to be accountable.  I like the league table idea.

[USABlue]

4 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Personally, I believe the club in general is in a much better place than it was two years ago.  The development squad looks strong and offers hope for the future.  At senior level, despite this awful recent run, I believe we are better than two years ago.  This season we only lost one of our opening ten games, but drew too many.  Since then results have been erratic - which is understandable for a club coming up - but we are on course to consolidate in terms of staying in the division although there is still work to do to ensure that.  Looking at the remaining fixtures of the club's below us I don't believe we need that many more points before we can start to give some of the younger players an opportunity.  At the moment we have too many players who have totally lost form - Raya, Mulgrew, Dack etc. were mainstays and now look very indifferent.

My main criticisms of the manager are in two areas.  Firstly I think he should have added a couple of players to the squad in January, particularly as we have ten players out on loan and two long term injuries.  Secondly, like Bob Saxton, I think he has been too loyal to one or two players.  Ultimately that did for Saxton and it will for Mowbray if he doesn't make changes in the summer.  I believe he knows that and I believe he will make changes.  Only time will tell if they are good enough but that's the same with any transfer and any manager.  

But in general, I believe the club as a whole is in a much better place than it was two years ago and Mowbray has had a large part to play in that.  I accept some will disagree but that's football - it's a game of opinions.

That's a good post Parsons and I agree in the most part.  Mowbary himself has an air of understanding he should have made changes and sounds like he is ready to.  Will he or will he make the ru5ght ones?  Your guess is as good as mine.  I am a bit fed up if Mowbary but am prepared to give him some time, next season will be it for me though.

Edited March 3, 2019 by USABlue

[bigbrandjohn]

On 02/03/2019 at 13:10, bazza said:

And I want all this plus a proper shirt of proper blue and white quarters.

What like Bristol Rovers????

[tomphil]

Coyle over Mowbray Merce really ?   Come on fella your proving yourself as mad as a box of frogs with that kind of talk.  If that clown was still here we'd be about 10th in league 1 now at best.

He wouldn't have got us up last season he really wouldn't, instead of Dack there'd have been Giles Barnes and donkeys of that ilk on nice cushty contracts probably arsing around angling for pay offs !

Anthony Stokes ???   say no more.

[davulsukur]

Was on a stag do over the weekend so just saw the results come in, seen the goals but nothing else.

Guessing we were abysmal to be getting turned over by these lot.

Interesting that Mowbray has called out the players and the keeper. 

Should be interesting to see the line up for the next game.

[Fraserkirky]

I’m the same as USA Blue, alarm bells have been on for a while. But Tony will and should get the summer to make some sweeping and tough decisions. What will he do?

Formation

I hate the teams style of play, and the god awful 4-5-1 with two holding midfielders, it is a putrid watch. Someone else mentioned earlier it’s a defensive formation and we still can’t defend so what’s the point.

I am a fan of the Wingback formation but I don’t think it’s just something you just switch into on a whim. It’s a well drilled formation that requires a lot of discipline, the wing backs duties change a lot. Centre halfs need to be familiar and comfortable in their positioning,etc. You also need to recruit the right players. And most importantly you need two box to midfielders the ilk of Reed and not Evans and Smallwood. Athletes preferably(See John McGinn).

Sheff Utd have been barn storming with it on a similar budget to us, I would think. The under 23s are already playing it so would not make sense to have the continuity at the club? Spend the rest of the season working on it, since relegation is extremely unlikely, and see who fits where? Get the likes of Butterworth, Brereton, Rothwell, Travis, Buckley, Davenport, Rankin-Costello and Chapman as much playing time as possible and see if they have the quality. Oh and Brad Lyons looks very decent too at St Mirren.

The Cull

Elliot Bennett

Ritchie Smallwood

Craig Conway

Corry Evans

I don’t think any of them are championship quality these days. I would move on from all of them this summer.

Also on the move this summer I would suggest:

Bradley Dack, problem is his value will have plummeted if anyone has been watching the games. Would take 10m for him to be honest.

Reed, all of sudden has starting looking like he can’t be arsed. He won’t be back.

Williams, will want to be playing and it shouldn’t be here.

Team Next Year

We clearly need a new Goalie.

It’s so funny to see the short memories of some people. Lenihan is now seen as some kind of messiah when in fact he had 3 or 4 absolute calamities of games earlier in the season and people where calling for his head. He is better than Mulgrew at defending though, and him and Rodwell looked much more assured together. Still you need 2x Centre Halfs this summer.

Right Wingback you have Nyambe and Travis, who should be playing there. Left wing back you need one, Bell is okay going forward, but having a quality LWB should be a priority. 

You will need the two box to box midfielders. I was with the posters that said “yesterday should have been Smallwoods last game for Rovers”.

In attacking midfield I would have Rothwell and maybe Rankin-Costello or Buckley as backup if they can prove it. 

Up top, Armstrong and Brereton would be pencilled in for now, with Graham an impact sub for 25mins at this stage of his career. Seen enough glimpses of Butterworth to think he has a role to play too. So you should be looking to add a larger striker.

In conclusion Tony has a huge summer ahead, and some tough conversations to have. 

He needs 7 new starters at: GK, CD, CD, LWB, BBM, BBM, and a strong CF. 

Unless some of the younger boys can claim a spot.

A new Captain is also a need.

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Fraserkirky

[DeeCee]

9 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

I’m the same as USA Blue, alarm bells have been on for a while. But Tony will and should get the summer to make some sweeping and tough decisions. What will he do?

Formation

I hate the teams style of play, and the god awful 4-5-1 with two holding midfielders, it is a putrid watch. Someone else mentioned earlier it’s a defensive formation and we still can’t defend so what’s the point.

I am a fan of the Wingback formation but I don’t think it’s just something you just switch into on a whim. It’s a well drilled formation that requires a lot of discipline, the wing backs duties change a lot. Center halfs need to be familiar and comfortable in their positioning,etc. You also need to recruit the right players. And most importantly you need two box to midfielders the ilk of Reed and not Evans and Smallwood. Athletes preferably(See John McGinn).

Sheff Utd have been barn storming with it on a similar budget to us, I would think. The under 23s are already playing it so would not make sense to have the continuity at the club? Spend the rest of the season working on it, since relegation is extremely unlikely, and see who fits where? Get the likes of Butterworth, Brereton, Rothwell, Travis, Buckley, Davenport, Rankin-Costello and Chapman as much playing time as possible and see if they have the quality. Oh and Brad Lyons looks very decent too at St Mirren.

The Cull

Elliot Bennett

Ritchie Smallwood

Craig Conway

Corry Evans

I don’t think any of them are championship quality these days. I would move on from all of them this summer.

Also on the move this summer I would suggest:

Bradley Dack, problem is his value will have plummeted if anyone has been watching the games. Would take 10m for him to be honest.

Reed, all of sudden has starting looking like he can’t be arsed. He won’t be back.

Williams, will want to be playing and it shouldn’t be here.

Team Next Year

We clearly need a new Goalie.

It’s so funny to see the short memories of some people. Lenihan is now seen as some kind of messiah when in fact he had 3 or 4 absolute calamities of games earlier in the season and people where calling for his head. He is better than Mulgrew at defending though, and him and Rodwell looked much more assured together. Still you need 2x Centre Halfs this summer.

Right Wingback you have Nyambe and Travis, who should be playing there. Left wing back you need one, Bell is okay going forward, but having a quality LWB should be a priority. 

You will need the two box to box midfielders. I was with the posters that said “yesterday should have been Smallwoods last game for Rovers”.

In attacking midfield I would have Rothwell and maybe Rankin-Costello or Buckley as backup if they can prove it. 

Up top, Armstrong and Brereton would be pencilled in for now, with Graham an impact sub for 25mins at this stage of his career. Seen enough glimpses of Butterworth to think he has a role to play too. So you should be looking to add a larger striker.

In conclusion Tony has a huge summer ahead, and some tough conversations to have. 

He needs 7 new starters at: GK, CD, CD, LWB, BBM, BBM, and a strong CF. 

Unless some of the younger boys can claim a spot.

A new Captain is also a need.

 

Good post, don't believe everyone will agree.

[tomphil]

Bennett, Smallwood, Evans, Williams ?  How do we get rid if they've had payrises and contract extensions ?   Nobody will pay money for any of them which I think says a lot and they won't want to leave here for less money.

All have served the club well but it is time to change and they should be back up options now, I like Bennett but Mowbray moving him around the team is quite ridiculous now just to shoehorn his fav in.

[Herbie6590]

22 hours ago, Mercer said:

Incredible that you have a scrap of faith left in Mowbray.  Think you would be still backing him if we end up at Pleasington!

I'd even take C o y l e over Mowbray.

I find Mowbray so uninspiring - I think all he prattles on about are values which masks the fact that, IMO, he is capable of little else connected to Rovers. 

“I’d even take C O Y L E over Mowbray...”  hell’s teeth...?

[CD_93]

5 hours ago, RV Blue said:

This is the crux. The first sign of a bad manager is that they don’t have a style of play. Bowyer was the epitome of this, Coyle was the same.

Have you not heard all the Sky commentators?

Tony Mowbray's teams love to keep the ball on the ground... pass it quickly through midfield... flowing football...

 

 

Tony Mowbray's Class of 18-19, however...

You only have to look at all the suggested teams in the match threads every week to prove how inconsistent this squad is. Nobody bloody knows who should be playing and where from one week to the next because you never know how any of these highly paid professionals are going to perform if they even turn up at all - and when they do, there's no saying what the manager is going to do with them... and just because you have a terrible game doesn't mean you aren't the first name on the team sheet next match.

Edited March 3, 2019 by CD_93

[RV Blue]

Just now, CD_93 said:

Have you not heard all the Sky commentators?

Tony Mowbray's teams love to keep the ball on the ground... pass it quickly through midfield... flowing football...

 

Tony Mowbray's Class of 18-19, however...

Where do they get that from? We haven’t seen it.

[Gone to seed]

27 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

Where do they get that from? We haven’t seen it.

Naahh, you're missing the point - the Sky lot are paid to talk shite and make stuff up.

[DE.]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Bennett, Smallwood, Evans, Williams ?  How do we get rid if they've had payrises and contract extensions ?   Nobody will pay money for any of them which I think says a lot and they won't want to leave here for less money.

All have served the club well but it is time to change and they should be back up options now, I like Bennett but Mowbray moving him around the team is quite ridiculous now just to shoehorn his fav in.

I was gutted when Evans was given a new contract. One of the most underwhelming players to have ever consistently pulled on a shirt, only plays properly when his contract is due and mysteriously recovers from injuries as soon as internationals start. Might be the worst signing Bowyer made with a transfer fee involved. Incredibly frustrating that we're going to have to watch him trundle around the midfield without contributing anything of note for another two years. Should have just let his contract expire or moved him on for a smaller fee - not that anybody would likely have been interested. 

[tomphil]

Plays well only when the rest of the team are performing well around him I feel and yep for most of his time here he's been on a very cushy number with a guaranteed starting spot whilst he's just coasted through a lot of games.

[old darwen blue]

6 hours ago, bigbrandjohn said:

What like Bristol Rovers????

No pal, if you picture the shirt and cut it straight up the middle of the front and lay it out then you’ll see the quarters blue and white. That’s how it should be historically as I understand it anyway. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 hours ago, old darwen blue said:

No pal, if you picture the shirt and cut it straight up the middle of the front and lay it out then you’ll see the quarters blue and white. That’s how it should be historically as I understand it anyway. 

I used to just pull it on over my head !  If you read any football handbook it will say _ Club Colours - Blackburn Rovers - Blue and White Halves.

If we play in quarters what do Bristol Rovers play in ?  Blue and White Eighths ?

Edited March 4, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[jim mk2]

6 hours ago, old darwen blue said:

No pal, if you picture the shirt and cut it straight up the middle of the front and lay it out then you’ll see the quarters blue and white. That’s how it should be historically as I understand it anyway. 

Always halves. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Watched the goals last night. They do not make pleasant viewing. Their first goal would have been bad to concede in Sunday league. Pathetic. Their second(the one where Raya and Bell left it to each other) wasn't much better, arguably worse. 

The Raya-Mulgrew-Rodwell axes has been shown to be an unmitigated failure. The 3 of them do not compliment each other and their weaknesses compound each others. Downing would have been a better option that one of them. As for Raya, great shot stopper but not good enough in the air for this level. Been found out time and time again. If I was the manager of a team playing us my instructions would be simple "test the keeper with high balls into the box" .

A huge lack of leadership and controlled aggression in defence. A physical striker like Birmingham had the week previous and Rotherham last weekend, won't have much easier opponents than Mulgrew , Rodwell and Raya. 

The Mulgrew and Rodwell combination might work if they played together for Barcelona when Pep was manager. The two of them at this level, with Raya are just not good enough defensively. 

Edited March 4, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Leonard Venkhater]

21 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Personally, I believe the club in general is in a much better place than it was two years ago.  The development squad looks strong and offers hope for the future.  At senior level, despite this awful recent run, I believe we are better than two years ago.  This season we only lost one of our opening ten games, but drew too many.  Since then results have been erratic - which is understandable for a club coming up - but we are on course to consolidate in terms of staying in the division although there is still work to do to ensure that.  Looking at the remaining fixtures of the club's below us I don't believe we need that many more points before we can start to give some of the younger players an opportunity.  At the moment we have too many players who have totally lost form - Raya, Mulgrew, Dack etc. were mainstays and now look very indifferent.

My main criticisms of the manager are in two areas.  Firstly I think he should have added a couple of players to the squad in January, particularly as we have ten players out on loan and two long term injuries.  Secondly, like Bob Saxton, I think he has been too loyal to one or two players.  Ultimately that did for Saxton and it will for Mowbray if he doesn't make changes in the summer.  I believe he knows that and I believe he will make changes.  Only time will tell if they are good enough but that's the same with any transfer and any manager.  

But in general, I believe the club as a whole is in a much better place than it was two years ago and Mowbray has had a large part to play in that.  I accept some will disagree but that's football - it's a game of opinions.

A balanced analysis, amidst all the gloom.

However, your points about the positive development squad versus the first team reflect a deep worry for me.

Perhaps, the Venky's business model is to concentrate on developing younger players to sell on, whilst creating and maintaining a reality of a first team, merely bobbing around mid to lower end of the Championship.

We have never remotely been in contention for promotion from the Championship, ever since the self induced relegation from the premier league....

Managed decline!

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I used to just pull it on over my head !  If you read any football handbook it will say _ Club Colours - Blackburn Rovers - Blue and White Halves.

If we play in quarters what do Bristol Rovers play in ?  Blue and White Eighths ?

We play in quarters and Bristol Rovers in eighths. 

The number of pieces of cloth needed to be stitched together to make the body of the shirt, in times gone by. 

Laziness and changes in language usage and kit manufacture result in ours being commonly referred to as halves and Bristol Rovers as quarters. 

I have no problem with ours being referred to as halves,  I do have serious issue with this year's insipid colour scheme. 

[tomphil]

1 minute ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

A balanced analysis, amidst all the gloom.

However, your points about the positive development squad versus the first team reflect a deep worry for me.

Perhaps, the Venky's business model is to concentrate on developing younger players to sell on, whilst creating and maintaining a reality of a first team, merely bobbing around mid to lower end of the Championship.

We have never remotely been in contention for promotion from the Championship, ever since the self induced relegation from the premier league....

Managed decline!

That could be the business plan laid out last summer especially when you factor in the commitment on Brereton yet only Armstrong for 1.75 million for the first team over the last two windows.  I'm very much of the suspicion that there is another team being grown to sell on soon and plug the running costs over the last two years again. 

I'm sure they'd all fancy promotion but won't invest what's required to give it a good go so will be happy with midtable finishes and just for a 'lucky' season or a Mowbray miracle on peanuts.

Nothing wrong with running a sensible sustainable business model  but if that is the sole aim now and we become the agents vehicle again we are in for some frustrating mediocrity I think.

[AllRoverAsia]

34 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Watched the goals last night. They do not make pleasant viewing. Their first goal would have been bad to concede in Sunday league. Pathetic. Their second(the one where Raya and Bell left it to each other) wasn't much better, arguably worse. 

The Raya-Mulgrew-Rodwell axes has been shown to be an unmitigated failure. The 3 of them do not compliment each other and their weaknesses compound each others. Downing would have been a better option that one of them. As for Raya, great shot stopper but not good enough in the air for this level. Been found out time and time again. If I was the manager of a team playing us my instructions would be simple "test the keeper with high balls into the box" .

A huge lack of leadership and controlled aggression in defence. A physical striker like Birmingham had the week previous and Rotherham last weekend, won't have much easier opponents than Mulgrew , Rodwell and Raya. 

The Mulgrew and Rodwell combination might work if they played together for Barcelona when Pep was manager. The two of them at this level, with Raya are just not good enough defensively. 

Prior to their 2nd goal we had got back into the game quite well,  Rothwell on field helping. 

Then in quick succession Raya make 2 dropkick clearances as bad as you would see at the lowest level of football possible. Mowbray called them pathetic. 

Both put Rotherham on the attack,  the second one a skyer, never reached the centre circle and was taken by Rotherham without a fight,  chipped into our box for the Raya and Bell comedy act.

Even at School I played with keepers who could clear their lines better than Raya. His kicking or a large proportion of it is useless.  The Emnes one was a fluke. 

[DE.]

29 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Prior to their 2nd goal we had got back into the game quite well,  Rothwell on field helping. 

Then in quick succession Raya make 2 dropkick clearances as bad as you would see at the lowest level of football possible. Mowbray called them pathetic. 

Both put Rotherham on the attack,  the second one a skyer, never reached the centre circle and was taken by Rotherham without a fight,  chipped into our box for the Raya and Bell comedy act.

Even at School I played with keepers who could clear their lines better than Raya. His kicking or a large proportion of it is useless.  The Emnes one was a fluke. 

Wasn't the Emnes goal Steele?

[old darwen blue]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I used to just pull it on over my head !  If you read any football handbook it will say _ Club Colours - Blackburn Rovers - Blue and White Halves.

If we play in quarters what do Bristol Rovers play in ?  Blue and White Eighths ?

 

2 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Always halves. 

Read my post again, AllRoverAsia has got it.