Mowbray’s Future

[roversfan99]

5 hours ago, Batman. said:

I know the media and the 24/7 constant analysis of every little thing football related has (along with the modern day culture of wanting things to arrive in their lives instantaneously) made people very prone to knee jerk reactions, but a few people around here should be a bit embarrassed about what they've said on this thread over the last few days (in my opinion).

It's like they've never seen a team have a sudden slump in form/ bad run before (in our case, you'd be hard pressed to say "run").

Mowbray has done an incredible job taking into account the mad house he walked into. Having got us promoted, after 20 games we are 5 points from the play offs, 11 away from the drop zone, and in 9th position.

We are surrounded by clubs who have not only outspent us, but who have outspent us massively. Whilst I'm not sure about the length of his contract given the modern nature of football, in my opinion he was (and remains) a million miles away from being under even the tiniest bit of pressure.

Who should be embarrased?

I dont understand your post in that any team will always court criticism if it hits a drop in form. Too many people on here manipulate those criticisms to be judgements about Mowbrays overall position.

[Gav]

2 minutes ago, Rover_Shaun said:

Mowbray with not get this club promoted. Not now, not ever. Not that that is a negative at this stage of the rebuild. But a 3.5 year deal? Utter fkin madness.

What would you do then Shaun? 

You've not been through the gates since 2012/13 by your own admission, so let's here it? 

[Gav]

7 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

Speaking of gates, hopings that your flight was landings safeteleley.

Be careful of casting aspersions, you may end up with egg on your face.

[Batman.]

6 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Who should be embarrased?

I dont understand your post in that any team will always court criticism if it hits a drop in form. Too many people on here manipulate those criticisms to be judgements about Mowbrays overall position.

I don't consider a two game losing streak to be a particular drop in form. When you haven't won for 5 or 6 games, that's when you start to wonder if things are wrong. But even then, in our case, it wouldn't mean that the guy who was fantastic for the previous two years is suddenly not good enough off the back of a dodgy month. We've become everything that we used to mock in English football, from diving to the incredible turnover of managers (which has yet to prove itself to be a successful model, but has proven to be a very expensive one).

Nowadays everybody has signed up to the madhouse where Sky Sports will have you believe a team is in crisis if they have completed less sprints this week than they did in the first half two weeks ago.

Plenty of people on here were criticising Mowbray personally rather than the team, and even a couple saying he's taken us as far as he can/ saying he should be under pressure if he can't turn it around. There was nothing to turn around. I mean, we've lost once in more than a year at home. Once. And people were suggesting he might not be up to the job? Really?

This squad is fighting above its weight (in terms or league position; I think it's a lower mid table squad) in this league, and considering the job he's done, only in a situation where we are adrift and in trouble should his job be under threat.

Its incredible that some people are so fickle that after two defeats they suddenly act as if they previous two years didn't happen.

[JacknOry]

13 hours ago, Batman. said:

I've referenced that, and we're 11 off the relegation zone just past the halfway stage (effectively 12 with goal difference).

Here's the link to all clubs spending..

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/transfers/wettbewerb/GB2

Pretty much all of them spent more than us in the summer.

Are you just looking at incomings because on net spend i do not see that many that have have done more than us? Besides, never trust transfermarket for fees.

[JacknOry]

1 hour ago, Batman. said:

I don't consider a two game losing streak to be a particular drop in form. When you haven't won for 5 or 6 games, that's when you start to wonder if things are wrong. But even then, in our case, it wouldn't mean that the guy who was fantastic for the previous two years is suddenly not good enough off the back of a dodgy month. We've become everything that we used to mock in English football, from diving to the incredible turnover of managers (which has yet to prove itself to be a successful model, but has proven to be a very expensive one).

Nowadays everybody has signed up to the madhouse where Sky Sports will have you believe a team is in crisis if they have completed less sprints this week than they did in the first half two weeks ago.

Plenty of people on here were criticising Mowbray personally rather than the team, and even a couple saying he's taken us as far as he can/ saying he should be under pressure if he can't turn it around. There was nothing to turn around. I mean, we've lost once in more than a year at home. Once. And people were suggesting he might not be up to the job? Really?

This squad is fighting above its weight (in terms or league position; I think it's a lower mid table squad) in this league, and considering the job he's done, only in a situation where we are adrift and in trouble should his job be under threat.

Its incredible that some people are so fickle that after two defeats they suddenly act as if they previous two years didn't happen.

Man, team plays badly it and manager gets criticised, plays well like yesterday and it gets praised. Quite simple really.

[gumboots]

Actually it's not because there were some suggesting that Mowbray had gone as far as he could with this squad. He got some criticism that was OTT and he didn't deserve that. Criticise his tactics or team selection thats fair enough but some went further than needed 

[JacknOry]

13 minutes ago, gumboots said:

Actually it's not because there were some suggesting that Mowbray had gone as far as he could with this squad. He got some criticism that was OTT and he didn't deserve that. Criticise his tactics or team selection thats fair enough but some went further than needed 

One or two, that is all i remember seeing and i read these forums daily (when i really should be working...admittedly) 

Mercer who, lets be honest, likes a bit of attention for being controversial and I think one other though i cannot recall the name were the only ones who called for TM to go. The rest were rightly critical of both him and the team for the past two performances. 

Edited December 2, 2018 by JacknOry

[Bigdoggsteel]

10 hours ago, Rover_Shaun said:

Mowbray with not get this club promoted. Not now, not ever. Not that that is a negative at this stage of the rebuild. But a 3.5 year deal? Utter fkin madness.

How are you so sure of that? How has progressed the club every window he has been here 

I hope if he does you will be on to swallow some humble pie 

[Stuart]

4 hours ago, Batman. said:

I don't consider a two game losing streak to be a particular drop in form. When you haven't won for 5 or 6 games, that's when you start to wonder if things are wrong. But even then, in our case, it wouldn't mean that the guy who was fantastic for the previous two years is suddenly not good enough off the back of a dodgy month. We've become everything that we used to mock in English football, from diving to the incredible turnover of managers (which has yet to prove itself to be a successful model, but has proven to be a very expensive one).

Nowadays everybody has signed up to the madhouse where Sky Sports will have you believe a team is in crisis if they have completed less sprints this week than they did in the first half two weeks ago.

Plenty of people on here were criticising Mowbray personally rather than the team, and even a couple saying he's taken us as far as he can/ saying he should be under pressure if he can't turn it around. There was nothing to turn around. I mean, we've lost once in more than a year at home. Once. And people were suggesting he might not be up to the job? Really?

This squad is fighting above its weight (in terms or league position; I think it's a lower mid table squad) in this league, and considering the job he's done, only in a situation where we are adrift and in trouble should his job be under threat.

Its incredible that some people are so fickle that after two defeats they suddenly act as if they previous two years didn't happen.

Good post. The bit in bold though won’t be a reasonable or acceptable excuse for long while we are spending money. If we don’t address problem areas.

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Man, team plays badly it and manager gets criticised, plays well like yesterday and it gets praised. Quite simple really.

Not sure about that. Dack and Graham getting most of the praise. In fact I read a few on here say the result was in spite of Mowbray due to the team he picked. So the praise for Mowbray when we win isn't representational to the criticism when we lose. 

[Batman.]

17 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Good post. The bit in bold though won’t be a reasonable or acceptable excuse for long while we are spending money. If we don’t address problem areas.

Of course, but up to now the only money we've spent to improve the squad is the hypoyethical sum on Brereton (which if completed with be paid based on various bonuses I'm sure, which suggests neither the buying party nor selling party expect instant results from the transfer).

The Armstrong money was just to maintain the strength of the League 1 squad. Everything else has been freebies and loans.

[blueboy3333]

16 hours ago, Batman. said:

I've referenced that, and we're 11 off the relegation zone just past the halfway stage (effectively 12 with goal difference).

Here's the link to all clubs spending..

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/transfers/wettbewerb/GB2

Pretty much all of them spent more than us in the summer.

Only if you don't include Brereton. We've committed £10m net on transfers alone if you do.  Nearly every club in the bottom half of the Championship won't have spent anywhere near that. On the link you provided only 5 or 6 teams spent more than us (net) even with BB not included. With BB included only a couple spent more than us (net).

[Tom Stinny]

The only real criticism of the manager from myself has been his odd team selections with the no striker formations and the such.

 

If he doesn't drop the idea that he can be the Pep of the championship then any criticism that he gets would be justified.

 

Yesterday's game was a great reminder that simple formations and players who specialise in their position gets you further than over thinking.

 

Look at Leicester when they won the league. 2 strikers 2 wingers and a workmanlike team spirit. I'd like us to go down that route of Dack and Graham leading the line and 2 proper wingers out wide.

 

It's effective and doable with players who can be limited and bar 3-4 in the squad. A lot of the players are limited in ability and understanding but give 100%

[roversfan99]

5 hours ago, Batman. said:

I don't consider a two game losing streak to be a particular drop in form. When you haven't won for 5 or 6 games, that's when you start to wonder if things are wrong. But even then, in our case, it wouldn't mean that the guy who was fantastic for the previous two years is suddenly not good enough off the back of a dodgy month. We've become everything that we used to mock in English football, from diving to the incredible turnover of managers (which has yet to prove itself to be a successful model, but has proven to be a very expensive one).

Nowadays everybody has signed up to the madhouse where Sky Sports will have you believe a team is in crisis if they have completed less sprints this week than they did in the first half two weeks ago.

Plenty of people on here were criticising Mowbray personally rather than the team, and even a couple saying he's taken us as far as he can/ saying he should be under pressure if he can't turn it around. There was nothing to turn around. I mean, we've lost once in more than a year at home. Once. And people were suggesting he might not be up to the job? Really?

This squad is fighting above its weight (in terms or league position; I think it's a lower mid table squad) in this league, and considering the job he's done, only in a situation where we are adrift and in trouble should his job be under threat.

Its incredible that some people are so fickle that after two defeats they suddenly act as if they previous two years didn't happen.

Who said that he isnt good enough and should go? 

If City got hammered 4-1 and then 3-1 in a matter of days, regardless of Guardiola and the job hes done, hed get criticised. He made some very questionable subs and tactical choices (no striker v PNE, subbing Williams for Graham at Wigan, playing Rodwell at centre back) that warranted and brought on criticism. 

Either im missing people directly calling for a change of manager or its being manipulated that theres loads of people wanting a managerial change to try and make people look stupid and remove any scope for criticism at all.

I dont feel like we are fighting above our weight either considering the resources Mowbray has had, that being said he is doing a good job as the vast majority will echo.

40 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Not sure about that. Dack and Graham getting most of the praise. In fact I read a few on here say the result was in spite of Mowbray due to the team he picked. So the praise for Mowbray when we win isn't representational to the criticism when we lose. 

Where are these quotes? Mowbray got plenty of praise yesterday, and post match I personally didnt see anyone saying it is in spite of Mowbray at all, in fact a lot of people including myself held their hands up. Mowbray has received plenty of praise, after games such as Leeds and Brentford are obvious examples.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Who said that he isnt good enough and should go? 

If City got hammered 4-1 and then 3-1 in a matter of days, regardless of Guardiola and the job hes done, hed get criticised. He made some very questionable subs and tactical choices (no striker v PNE, subbing Williams for Graham at Wigan, playing Rodwell at centre back) that warranted and brought on criticism. 

Either im missing people directly calling for a change of manager or its being manipulated that theres loads of people wanting a managerial change to try and make people look stupid and remove any scope for criticism at all.

I dont feel like we are fighting above our weight either considering the resources Mowbray has had, that being said he is doing a good job as the vast majority will echo.

Where are these quotes? Mowbray got plenty of praise yesterday, and post match I personally didnt see anyone saying it is in spite of Mowbray at all, in fact a lot of people including myself held their hands up. Mowbray has received plenty of praise, after games such as Leeds and Brentford are obvious examples.

I read them on here. Not going back looking. He doesn't get as much praise when we win, as he gets slated when we lose. To say different after the last week is disingenuous 

[Bigdoggsteel]

54 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Only if you don't include Brereton. We've committed £10m net on transfers alone if you do.  Nearly every club in the bottom half of the Championship won't have spent anywhere near that. On the link you provided only 5 or 6 teams spent more than us (net) even with BB not included. With BB included only a couple spent more than us (net).

I just wonder, should the Brereton fee not be counted until January. As that's officially when we will pay the fee 

[Vinjay]

13 hours ago, Gav said:

What would you do then Shaun? 

You've not been through the gates since 2012/13 by your own admission, so let's here it? 

 

13 hours ago, Rover_Shaun said:

Mowbray with not get this club promoted. Not now, not ever. Not that that is a negative at this stage of the rebuild. But a 3.5 year deal? Utter fkin madness.

Probably hire someone who he feels is better. That's how it usually works unless you're...erm...Venkys. I don't know if absolute madness is the right phase (especially considering the playoffs are somewhat of a lottery at times) but definitely have some similar reservations. I don't think promotion bids should be built on the basis of "might scrape through the playoffs". Though as Shaun emphasises there are rebuild stages and at this point it's unjustified to demand promotion. Does that however make it unjustified to have doubts about the all important next stage? I don't know how many (or any) Fulham fans had doubts about Jokanovic after promotion but they probably wouldn't have been wrong if they had. It would have been much harder to judge Jokanovic though whereas Mowbray failed to do with Middlesbrough what he's trying to do here. I guess you can point out that his period at Coventry was misleading (and I certainly thought he was better than that at the time of his hiring) but not so sure his time at Middlesbrough is. Lots of managers get promoted to EPL once and never manage it again. I don't think Mowbray hides his weaknesses well and people can exploit that.

Do I think he should be sacked now? Not essentially no. Then again if that's simply to "buy time" and work out who the replacement should be perhaps that's weakness as well. Or clouded by distrust of Venkys and refusing to ever let your guard down. Makes it harder to look forward with crystal clarity.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Vinjay17

[blueboy3333]

6 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I just wonder, should the Brereton fee not be counted until January. As that's officially when we will pay the fee 

The fee is already agreed, that's why I said 'committed'. And we won't pay it all then anyway, like all the other clubs spending big money won't pay it all in one chunk either. 

[roversfan99]

13 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I read them on here. Not going back looking. He doesn't get as much praise when we win, as he gets slated when we lose. To say different after the last week is disingenuous 

If anyone did put that then they are obviously talking shite but I havent seen anyone and remain unconvinced.

Fed up of this need people have to imply that masses of our fan base want the manager out or have asked for it etc, its quite clearly not true and people only do it to seemingly shield any criticism from him or to try and make people look stupid.

[Roverthechimp]

5 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Are you just looking at incomings because on net spend i do not see that many that have have done more than us? Besides, never trust transfermarket for fees.

Suggests that other teams had saleable assets in contrast to Rovers ?

[Roverthechimp]

43 minutes ago, Tom Stinny said:

The only real criticism of the manager from myself has been his odd team selections with the no striker formations and the such.

 

If he doesn't drop the idea that he can be the Pep of the championship then any criticism that he gets would be justified.

 

Yesterday's game was a great reminder that simple formations and players who specialise in their position gets you further than over thinking.

 

Look at Leicester when they won the league. 2 strikers 2 wingers and a workmanlike team spirit. I'd like us to go down that route of Dack and Graham leading the line and 2 proper wingers out wide.

 

It's effective and doable with players who can be limited and bar 3-4 in the squad. A lot of the players are limited in ability and understanding but give 100%

Not aimed at you personally but compare this with what was said when the lineup was announced yesterday ?

[Bigdoggsteel]

38 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If anyone did put that then they are obviously talking shite but I havent seen anyone and remain unconvinced.

Fed up of this need people have to imply that masses of our fan base want the manager out or have asked for it etc, its quite clearly not true and people only do it to seemingly shield any criticism from him or to try and make people look stupid.

That's not what I said at all. I said he gets considerably more criticism when we lose than praise when we win. 

When we win its the players when we lose its the manager. 

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

That's not what I said at all. I said he gets considerably more criticism when we lose than praise when we win. 

When we win its the players when we lose its the manager. 

Again, not true.

Bad performances I suppose do require more of an autopsy as to whats gone wrong, plus frustration will be multiplied when for example spent good money travelling in all weathers to support the team.

That said, theres been plenty of praise on the Sheffield Wednesday thread alone.

Regarding your last sentence, thats totally not true. Think of the stick that Dack has got, that Bell has got, that Williams has got, that Rodwell has got, that Nyambe has got etc in the last week. The manager takes the brunt of everything of course either way but lets not make it out to be a witch hunt.

 

[Mattyblue]

Think the ‘praise the players when you win, blame the manager when you lose’ happens everywhere and always has.

You come off a match after a good win and you wax lyrical about individual performances of players, the goals etc. When you pay badly, it always goes back to the manager as he has trained the collective.