Mowbray’s Future

[K-Hod]

I do get frustrated with people confusing those who are ‘seeking improvement from Mowbray’ with ‘most of this board wanting Mowbray sacked’. 

As it goes, I’ve seen 1 or 2 at best making such a suggestion....

We do seem to concede a lot of late goals and have been doing a lot recently. It’s something which needs to be addressed!

Why in any walk of life would you not want the best for something you cared a lot about?

[Exiled in Toronto]

23 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Some fair points and probably not time to pull the trigger yet but the possibility someone else worse might be appointed should never be a reason against making a change if things clearly aren't working.

Personally in the long term I just don't see us progressing much beyond the point where we are now under TM so for me the question is do we soldier on indefinitely in an attempt to preserve the status quo and cement ourselves as a perennial lower mid table championship outfit or at some point do we have to be slightly more ambitious and take a bit of a gamble?

If the latter, is there any real point in delaying it indefinitely?

‘Possibility’? I think you mean ‘overwhelming probability’! 

And I’m not sure 24 games in our first season back counts as ‘soldiering on’. 

[Exiled in Toronto]

31 minutes ago, DE. said:

Most clubs that go down aren't allowed to keep players like Graham, Mulgrew or Evans - in fact most clubs would have lost players like Raya, Nyambe, Lenihan and Williams too. Mowbray was fortunate to be able to keep every decent player we had and bring in even more. Promotion is promotion but we should never have been in League 1 and it was actually a little unfair for us and Wigan to be down there with such strong squads. Nobody else really stood a chance as far as automatic promotion was concerned. 

I don't see many people on here demanding that Mowbray is sacked. Most people are saying the opposite - frustrated by his inability to fix our problems, but aware that sacking him is unlikely to be the answer. Doesn't mean he shouldn't be critcised when the same mistakes happen over and over again though. 

 

Most players like Graham, Mulgrew and Evans wouldn’t stay at a League 1 club, someone persuaded them to. Something I think Mowbray gets too little credit for.

[Rob1981]

10 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I do get frustrated with people confusing those who are ‘seeking improvement from Mowbray’ with ‘most of this board wanting Mowbray sacked’. 

As it goes, I’ve seen 1 or 2 at best making such a suggestion....

We do seem to concede a lot of late goals and have been doing a lot recently. It’s something which needs to be addressed!

Why in any walk of life would you not want the best for something you cared a lot about?

I think we should all seek improvement from Mowbray, so totally agree.

I think Ive made the mistake of thinking the volume of posts corresponds to the number of people wanting him to go....?

[Exiled in Toronto]

54 minutes ago, philipl said:

Crazy stuff on this thread.

Boy you guys were slow to get going when there was real shit at this club but once goaded you never stop.

Yes PNE and Wigan were awful and cost Mowbray a huge amount of goodwill he needed for the rest of this run.

But to be debating whether he should get sacked after what he has achieved at Rovers is just bonkers.

Especially when you look at the recent list of managers:

Kean

Berg

Appleton

Bowyer

Lambert

Coyle (displacing a good as appointed Warnock let's not forget)

Questions for you guys:

- be serious, is anybody going to chose any of the above as better than Mowbray?

- you are treating promotion from League 1 as an easy peasy splash in a toddler's paddle pool. Swap places with any of Barnsley, Burton or Sunderland just now?

- Between 0 and 100%, your level of confidence, Venky's to select a significantly better manager than Mowbray? 

 

No need to get worried, I think this thread is just the Christmas reunion of last season’s spectacularly well-timed Mowbray Out thread.

We’ve hit our first major bump in the road. Mowbray needs to act, and the results give him license to make some changes. Let’s see if he does.

[DE.]

1 minute ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Most players like Graham, Mulgrew and Evans wouldn’t stay at a League 1 club, someone persuaded them to. Something I think Mowbray gets too little credit for.

Tbf did we hear of interest in any of them? I remember Lenihan attracting interest but none of those three. From recollection Graham and Mulgrew wanted to leave but nothing materialised. Graham didn't even start performing well until December, which many put down to him sulking over not moving on. 

There's a reason Evans is the only one of Bowyer's babes in his prime that is still here. 

[Ewood Ace]

15 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Most players like Graham, Mulgrew and Evans wouldn’t stay at a League 1 club, someone persuaded them to. Something I think Mowbray gets too little credit for.

You talk as though they could have just up sticks and left because they didn't want to play in League 1, all 3 were under contract. So I would give the 'credit' to whoever gave them their contracts. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Ewood Ace

[Exiled in Toronto]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

You talk as though they could have just up sticks and left because they didn't want to play in League 1, all 3 were under contract. 

Ummm yes, because virtually any player can force a move from any club at any time. Unless it’s still 1963.

[AllRoverAsia]

1 minute ago, Ewood Ace said:

You talk as though they could have just up sticks and left because they didn't want to play in League 1, all 3 were under contract. So I would give the 'credit' to whoever gave them their contracts. 

I have always believed they stayed as they were still well paid and promised new contracts at a future point for their "loyalty"

Cynical maybe, realistic definately.

[RevidgeBlue]

20 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Most players like Graham, Mulgrew and Evans wouldn’t stay at a League 1 club, someone persuaded them to. Something I think Mowbray gets too little credit for.

Unless it was very well hidden, there was zero interest in any of those three at whatever money they were on.

[Ewood Ace]

3 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Ummm yes, because virtually any player can force a move from any club at any time. Unless it’s still 1963.

Who was buying though? If they wanted to leave then their agents will have been offering them around yet no bids were made for them as far as we know. Also all 3 have been given new contracts recently.

[jim mk2]

57 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

No need to get worried, I think this thread is just the Christmas reunion of last season’s spectacularly well-timed Mowbray Out thread.

We’ve hit our first major bump in the road. Mowbray needs to act, and the results give him license to make some changes. Let’s see if he does.

 The poor defending isn't new - the team was susceptible to giving away goals last season.  Why can't Mowbray fix it  ? Fans could also see the need for a big centre half in the summer - why didn't Mowbray ?  He's had plenty of time to act but shows no sign of being able to solve the problem

[JHRover]

15 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 The poor defending isn't new - the team was susceptible to giving away goals last season.  Why can't Mowbray fix it  ? Fans could also see the need for a big centre half in the summer - why didn't Mowbray ?  He's had plenty of time to act but shows no sign of being able to solve the problem

Exactly. This isn't a product of being in a higher league or up against better sides. The problem has been lingering for the last 18 months and the main difference now is it is costing us more than it did last season.  Mowbray either will not or cannot stop it. It could be personnel, it could be fitness, it could be tactics and organisation. Either way the responsibility lies at the managers feet.

[Mercer]

5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He still would have been sacked if it was nowadays though. I am not comparing them. Plenty of mangers go to clubs having won silverware elsewhere and are sacked at the first sign of trouble. That's my point. 

Managers should be given time. Within reason obviously. Steve Kean being the complete opposite example. 

Do you think Mowbray should be sacked? 

If the club wants to move forward then yes.

He inherited a mess from  C o y l e but at the end of the day, I think he should still have kept us up.  To be relegated on goal difference was a tough, tough one to take when, IMO, his overly cautious approach and muddled tactical thinking turned some winning positions into draws and drawing positions into losses.

Mowbray had to get us back at the first attempt which in fairness he did.  However, Div 1 is pi$$ poor and nowhere near the challenge that Gordon Lee and Howard Kendall successfully came through.  Rovers were the best resourced club in Div 1 by a long way.  In my opinion, we 'ragged' it on a number of occasions last season and I was never convinced we were a team on the march that was going to make an impact this season.

As I posted earlier today, I really scratch my head as to what Mowbray brings to the party.  I think we are unattractive to watch, tactically muddled and our player trading is very poor apart from the rare exception (Dack) - two of our better players (Mulgrew and Graham) were both secured by C o y l e !

If you want 'stability' and are happy to tread water in the bottom half of the Championship then Mowbray is your man.

[jim mk2]

2 hours ago, philipl said:

Crazy stuff on this thread.

 

 

No one wants Mowbray to be sacked but fans do want to see signs that he can sort out the team's problems and it's not an exaggeration to say the Boxing Day debacle has been a tipping point for some people. He still has plenty of goodwill among most fans after last season but that is quickly being eroded by the continuing defensive lapses. Results have been poor. Mowbray needs to show he can rise to the challenge, otherwise the mood at Ewood could darken 

[philipl]

Evening Standard 8 August 2018

Answers two questions above:

Blackburn have ended their pursuit of Charlton defender Patrick Bauer.

Bauer has been pushing for a move away from Charlton but Blackburn manager Tony Mowbray says Rovers have “moved on” after being told the German was not for sale.

Charlton have rejected several bids for Bauer from Blackburn, with the latest thought to be £500,000.

Bauer issued a statement on Twitter on Sunday to say he will not sign an extension to his contract which expires at the end of the season.

But Charlton manager Lee Bowyer has blocked his exit from The Valley and Blackburn boss Mowbray said: “I have spoken to Lee and if he [Bauer] is not for sale then he is not for sale. 

“That is fine, we did a similar thing when other clubs tried to sign some of our players last season. That is football. You are allowed to bid for players and they are allowed to say no. We have to move on and that is what we have done.”

[Exiled in Toronto]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Unless it was very well hidden, there was zero interest in any of those three at whatever money they were on.

I’m confused. Were they top players that could guarantee promotion or three useless has-beens no-one would touch with a barge-pole?

[Exiled in Toronto]

39 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 The poor defending isn't new - the team was susceptible to giving away goals last season.  Why can't Mowbray fix it  ? Fans could also see the need for a big centre half in the summer - why didn't Mowbray ?  He's had plenty of time to act but shows no sign of being able to solve the problem

A poster yesterday - Mellorsomething - hit the nail on the head for me: since Venkys took over, a grand total of $250k has been made available for defenders, whereas money seems to fall from the sky for forwards.  I think there’s something in that.

[DE.]

4 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I’m confused. Were they top players that could guarantee promotion or three useless has-beens no-one would touch with a barge-pole?

Too good for league 1 but wages were too high (particularly combined with Graham and Mulgrew's age) to be considered a sensible investment for a championship club. 

[Ewood Ace]

6 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

A poster yesterday - Mellorsomething - hit the nail on the head for me: since Venkys took over, a grand total of $250k has been made available for defenders, whereas money seems to fall from the sky for forwards.  I think there’s something in that.



Without going back through a list of defenders we have signed but of the top off my head I'm sure that Scott Dann, Shane Duffy, Derrick Williams and Amari'i Bell cost a lot more than £250K combined.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Ewood Ace

[Mercer]

33 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Exactly. This isn't a product of being in a higher league or up against better sides. The problem has been lingering for the last 18 months and the main difference now is it is costing us more than it did last season.  Mowbray either will not or cannot stop it. It could be personnel, it could be fitness, it could be tactics and organisation. Either way the responsibility lies at the managers feet.

The galling thing is Mowbray was a centre back himself - surely he can see what's wrong.

In actual fact, I think it's personnel, fitness, organisation and tactics!

I remember Sam taking over from Ince and instantly dismissing Winterburn (our defensive coach) with words to the effect 'I was a defender, I'll sort it', and he did.

[Exiled in Toronto]

14 minutes ago, DE. said:

Too good for league 1 but wages were too high (particularly combined with Graham and Mulgrew's age) to be considered a sensible investment for a championship club. 

Stretching now, given no one knows their wages. Two current internationals happy at dropping down to Div 1? I doubt that.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Exiled in Toronto said:

Stretching now, given no one knows their wages. Two current internationals happy at dropping down to Div 1? I doubt that.

Who was bidding for them?

[JacknOry]

Wednesday tried to get Mulgrew for like 100k or something embarrassing and Lenihan obviously attracted interest from the other Sheffield club. Truth is we do not know the phonecalls and bids that might have come in behind the scenes. I would expect there would have been interest for some of our players as plucking players from relegated clubs is quite normal.

Wasnt there a story that 5 or 6 senior players had to be persuaded to stay?

Edited December 27, 2018 by JacknOry

[DE.]

45 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Stretching now, given no one knows their wages. Two current internationals happy at dropping down to Div 1? I doubt that.

I specifically said they weren't happy ?