Mowbray’s Future

[SBlue]

2 minutes ago, Butty said:

I won’t say Mowbray has taken us as far as he can until there comes a point where we are actually underachieving as a squad and as a team, we are where we should be on paper and if we could hold on to a lead we’d be in the top six, you could obviously lay the blame at Mowbray for the way in which we’ve been seeing out games but for us to be mid table at this point in the season is not bad at all. Until we have a squad which on paper should be challenging towards the top end of the league but isn’t, you can’t say Mowbray has taken us as far as he can. Bowyer’s 2013-2015 Rovers should definitely have finished in the top six in one of those two seasons, we had two strikers with 20 goals each in the 14/15 season.. I can’t help but feel our good start to the season has raised expectations too much, survival was the main aim for this season and we will do that. All of us can see we need two wingers, a new left back another striker and a centre half partner for Mulgrew. Spending what we have on Brereton is indefensible and if Mowbray doesn’t address these issues in the summer I will soon change my tune, but if we can add those positions before the start of next season we should be right to expect more but until that time comes we should accept the fact we won’t be pulling many trees up this year, just throwing leads instead  

Correct.

We are competitive. No one will relish playing us. We can hurt teams.

Where we are right now after a massive squad clear out, a complete culture change, a re-connecting honesty with the fan base through Mowbray’s pure integrity and openness... it’s bloody good. He followed Coyle FFS.

 

Aidy Fucking Boothroyd. Jesus Christ.

 

[Butty]

11 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Correct.

We are competitive. No one will relish playing us. We can hurt teams.

Where we are right now after a massive squad clear out, a complete culture change, a re-connecting honesty with the fan base through Mowbray’s pure integrity and openness... it’s bloody good. He followed Coyle FFS.

 

Aidy Fucking Boothroyd. Jesus Christ.

 

It baffles me that some people hold our relegation against Mowbray when the amount of points we picked up under him, over the season would have kept us more than safe, he got us back up first time of asking and with our current squad still featuring the majority of that promotion side, the league table would suggest we are possibly overachieving! Don’t get me wrong Mowbray pisses me off sometimes with the way he sets us up and some of his decisions are more than questionable at times, but he’s made us very hard to beat and the reality is we don’t have enough quality in this team to play any other way. Next season is the one where if we strengthen in the summer, we should raise expectations of both Mowbray and the team, but for now I honestly think we are where we should be in the league, you cant say our lads dont give maximum effort every week, I just think with the quality in our squad, sometimes maximum effort still isn’t enough... I pray to god Mowbray gets his recruitment right in the summer but until then, calm down boys..... EDIT: Yes, suggesting to replace Mowbray with Aidy Boothroyd has to be one of the most mental things I’ve ever read on here. Absolute insult too TM that f**k me  

Edited December 28, 2018 by Butty

[DE.]

#GiveAidyAChance

Seriously though, the main reason there's this much anger is the manner of our defeats and draws. If we'd been 2-0 down at Birmingham and come back to draw 2-2 then it would have been a completely different feeling to throwing away a two goal lead. The same with the Boro match. If we'd been 2-1 up at HT against Leeds but they'd scored in the 65th and 76th minute, for example, there would be nowhere near the same resentment.

It's not just that we're dropping points, it's the way we're dropping points, and it's happening again and again. It's no wonder it's leading to genuine anger towards the manager and the players. You can only disappoint people like that so many times before they snap or just stop caring. That's not to say the manager should be sacked or the players booed off the pitch, but the emotional reactions are completely understandable. I find it stranger when people - especially directly after these results - react in a totally detached way or focus on attacking fellow fans expressing their anger/disappointment over the club's failings. I'd rather be honest and heartfelt than be snide and aloof. Everybody's different I suppose.

[blueboy3333]

9 hours ago, Butty said:

survival was the main aim for this season and we will do that.

According to who? There was a lot of talk about the possibility 'bouncing through the divisions' by our esteemed manager, although he later ruled it out in a classic case of managing Pune expectations ? It's all about the nest few transfer windows now, which is probably what he should have said in the first place.

Anyway, Sheff Utd, Millwall etc did well on their first season up (top 10 pushing for the play-offs). Mogga may be a victim of his own successful start to the season but  with the players already at the club I think mid-table was always a reasonable expectation for this season. Most teams are similar in quality. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 hours ago, Mercer said:

So, thoughts are, we've been poor to shyte in six recent games, two games against good opponents and four games against poor to average opponents (and in two of those games <Preston and Wigan> we were woefully thrashed).

This pattern of both performances and results doesn't augur well.  Didn't see the Preston game but understand we were woeful - did see the Wigan game and we were dire (reminiscent of the worse days of Kean and C o y l e).  

That's true, but can I ask honestly what were your expectations at the beginning of the season? What position did you A-think we would finish in and B- would you have been happy with. 

Not saying you are guilty of this, but many of those completely over reacting now were those who said they would be happy with us just staying up. 

As you are though, I have big concerns about recent performances, particularly ;Preston , Wigan, Birmingham and Rotherham. 

Also the summer business is now looking poor. Mowbray showed a lot of faith in those who got us up. The momentum from last season carried on and we started pretty well. The lack of quality in key areas is showing now though. 

Personally though I think /hope Mowbray identifies this. Therefore I would give him the January and summer windows. 

A new manger coming in would unsettle the close knit squad. It would also more than likely hasten Dacks exit. While Mowbray got the summer business pretty wrong. He is getting this team, at times, playing to their strengths. Even though the last 8ish games, bar Wednesday, have been awfully frustrating. Prior to this, we pulled off some great results. 

[blueboy3333]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17322890.why-mowbray-is-judging-rovers-with-his-eyes-not-stats/

Asked about the recurring theme (of shipping late goals) the boss said: “With total respect to the media world it’s full of statistics but I have to judge with my eyes. If we were miles away and had lost 3-2 then I’d be saying that. But we’re not a million miles away"

[DE.]

3 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17322890.why-mowbray-is-judging-rovers-with-his-eyes-not-stats/

Asked about the recurring theme (of shipping late goals) the boss said: “With total respect to the media world it’s full of statistics but I have to judge with my eyes. If we were miles away and had lost 3-2 then I’d be saying that. But we’re not a million miles away"

I think he needs his eyes tested if he saw this as not being a million miles away. 

[K-Hod]

'I have to judge with my eyes'. 

So do all of us, we conceded late goals and it cost us points. AGAIN.

 

[blueboy3333]

“I’m not going to be critical of the team, people will have their opinion, everyone is probably a better manager than me"- Mogga.

At least he doesn't lack self-awareness?

[Oldgregg86]

He was also quoted in a LT interview as saying he wants to bring a few bodies in, not to displace anyone but to help them out. 

It's comments like this that drive me mad. Most can see that the team as a whole lacks the quality to compete at the top end of the table. He says we need a few transfer windows to do this then comes out with a comment like that. 

We aren't short of numbers, we aren't one or two positions light, we need an overhaul of 4 or five quality first team additions that will come straight into the 11 and displace players that are under performing or don't have the necessary quality to take us to the level we need to be. 

He also says Joe nuttall had lost his hunger. A very worrying comment on a young player. The last thing that should go is hunger on a player who hasn't even broken into a first team in his life

[SBlue]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

#GiveAidyAChance

Seriously though, the main reason there's this much anger is the manner of our defeats and draws. If we'd been 2-0 down at Birmingham and come back to draw 2-2 then it would have been a completely different feeling to throwing away a two goal lead. The same with the Boro match. If we'd been 2-1 up at HT against Leeds but they'd scored in the 65th and 76th minute, for example, there would be nowhere near the same resentment.

It's not just that we're dropping points, it's the way we're dropping points, and it's happening again and again. It's no wonder it's leading to genuine anger towards the manager and the players. You can only disappoint people like that so many times before they snap or just stop caring. That's not to say the manager should be sacked or the players booed off the pitch, but the emotional reactions are completely understandable. I find it stranger when people - especially directly after these results - react in a totally detached way or focus on attacking fellow fans expressing their anger/disappointment over the club's failings. I'd rather be honest and heartfelt than be snide and aloof. Everybody's different I suppose.

I’d be more worried if we were being soundly beaten over the whole course of the game, personally.

[blueboy3333]

8 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

He was also quoted in a LT interview as saying he wants to bring a few bodies in, not to displace anyone but to help them out. 

I think that's just a nice way of saying he's going to replace them without actually saying it. He probably realises it's team spirit that has had a lot to do with our success over the last 12 months and he doesn't want to upset the troops. 

10 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

He also says Joe nuttall had lost his hunger. A very worrying comment on a young player. The last thing that should go is hunger on a player who hasn't even broken into a first team in his life

He was interviewed the other day and said Nuttall was now back to where he was when he joined the club and that the hunger was back. 

[Mattyblue]

I try not to look too deeply into the public comments of managers, he is probably right to avoid publicly roasting the players, if we think back to the anger he showed to Neal’s dad at Wigan tells me it’s a different story behind closed doors.

It’s all about action, so it is certainly time to get worried if the likes of Williams, Smallwood and perhaps even Lenihan aren’t replaced over the next few months.

[blueboy3333]

2 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

I’d be more worried if we were being soundly beaten over the whole course of the game, personally.

I'm worried that we've only scored 7 goals from open play in the last 12 matches (how many against SWFC?) and that we have conceded 18 goals in the last 16 minutes of matches. We are poor from open play over the whole course of the vast majority of games.  You can't keep getting away with it as we are now finding.

We either don't have the players or the coaching is shite. These arguments were had last season when we had a bad start to the season (culminating in the Oldham away game). Some said it was the players but then we battered everyone in sight for most of the next two or three months and then went on to clinch promotion. We seem to be back to the same discussion. 

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

if we think back to the anger he showed to Neal’s dad at Wigan tells me it’s a different story behind closed doors.

???

[DE.]

10 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

I’d be more worried if we were being soundly beaten over the whole course of the game, personally.

Well we got a taste of that too courtesy of Wigan and Preston, so it's been a little bit of everything recently.

[Mattyblue]

When Neal of this parish’s dad ended up chatting to Mowbray after the Wigan debacle. He was fuming and ranting and said ‘we WILL beat Sheff Wed, don’t you worry about that’

Now  that may be because Sheff Wed were shite at the time, but it isn’t something you’d hear ‘on the record’. 

All that matters is that he actually changes things, so the next month will be telling...

Edited December 28, 2018 by Mattyblue

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I'm worried that we've only scored 7 goals from open play in the last 12 matches (how many against SWFC?) and that we have conceded 18 goals in the last 16 minutes of matches. We are poor from open play over the whole course of the vast majority of games.  You can't keep getting away with it as we are now finding.

We either don't have the players or the coaching is shite. These arguments were had last season when we had a bad start to the season (culminating in the Oldham away game). Some said it was the players but then we battered everyone in sight for most of the next two or three months and then went on to clinch promotion. We seem to be back to the same discussion. 

I can count on the fingers of one hand the games last season were we played well for more than 45 minutes. And that was in a crap division.

[blueboy3333]

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I try not to look too deeply into the public comments of managers,

The problem with Mogga is that he reverse ferrets quite often.

Straight after the Leeds game he was saying 'the stats add up' https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17320535.leeds-united-3-blackburn-rovers-2-tony-mowbray-reaction/

Two days later he's saying stats don't matter. 

The 'man of integrity and honesty' comments always raise a wry smile. 

[Oldgregg86]

10 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I think that's just a nice way of saying he's going to replace them without actually saying it. He probably realises it's team spirit that has had a lot to do with our success over the last 12 months and he doesn't want to upset the troops. 

Any other manager I would have read that and like you have, took it for what it was.

I then look at the starting 11 after his first window and the lack of game time for all the new lads and he does worry me with his comments. After all he is famed for his honesty.

I said we should be avoiding relegation this season and we are doing that. Tony has done a great job and still has my backing.

What worries me, going forward is, the vision he is selling isn't matching what is happening on the pitch. Strange recruitment, mistakes and errors that never seem to be learned from, square pegs round holes, poor signings and not improving the first 11, wanting to play football and then hoofing it to Graham with no other game plan.

He has done wonderful up to now, I just want to see small steps or shoots of hope that point to progression and improvement, whether that be bringing in players that start, players in the right position, getting the ball down and trying to play or a plan b. Even something as basics as coaching the defense to work as a unit for 90 minutes.

I bought in to his vision and believe what he says and it's going to take time to achieve it but without being entitled or expecting miracles I do want to see some concrete baby steps that show signs that we are all moving in the same direction. Comments like that and the mismanagement of new players, faith in players who should be dropped and lack of playing style with no signs of him acknowledging his errors worries me greatly.

He has my backing and deserves this window and the summer to start showing some real intentions of this vision because at the moment that is all it is

 

[RoversClitheroe]

11 hours ago, Butty said:

It baffles me that some people hold our relegation against Mowbray when the amount of points we picked up under him, over the season would have kept us more than safe, he got us back up first time of asking and with our current squad still featuring the majority of that promotion side, the league table would suggest we are possibly overachieving! Don’t get me wrong Mowbray pisses me off sometimes with the way he sets us up and some of his decisions are more than questionable at times, but he’s made us very hard to beat and the reality is we don’t have enough quality in this team to play any other way. Next season is the one where if we strengthen in the summer, we should raise expectations of both Mowbray and the team, but for now I honestly think we are where we should be in the league, you cant say our lads dont give maximum effort every week, I just think with the quality in our squad, sometimes maximum effort still isn’t enough... I pray to god Mowbray gets his recruitment right in the summer but until then, calm down boys..... EDIT: Yes, suggesting to replace Mowbray with Aidy Boothroyd has to be one of the most mental things I’ve ever read on here. Absolute insult too TM that f**k me  

Hard to beat? We've lost 4-1 this season more than I can ever remember.

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

I'm worried that we've only scored 7 goals from open play in the last 12 matches (how many against SWFC?) and that we have conceded 18 goals in the last 16 minutes of matches. We are poor from open play over the whole course of the vast majority of games.  You can't keep getting away with it as we are now finding.

We either don't have the players or the coaching is shite. These arguments were had last season when we had a bad start to the season (culminating in the Oldham away game). Some said it was the players but then we battered everyone in sight for most of the next two or three months and then went on to clinch promotion. We seem to be back to the same discussion. 

I think it's both.  Have watched Venus and Lowe closely pre match and I have been underwhelmed - no surprise about Lowe as, in my opinion, he always cut an undistinguished figure when I saw in an Academy capacity.

1 hour ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Any other manager I would have read that and like you have, took it for what it was.

I then look at the starting 11 after his first window and the lack of game time for all the new lads and he does worry me with his comments. After all he is famed for his honesty.

I said we should be avoiding relegation this season and we are doing that. Tony has done a great job and still has my backing.

What worries me, going forward is, the vision he is selling isn't matching what is happening on the pitch. Strange recruitment, mistakes and errors that never seem to be learned from, square pegs round holes, poor signings and not improving the first 11, wanting to play football and then hoofing it to Graham with no other game plan.

He has done wonderful up to now, I just want to see small steps or shoots of hope that point to progression and improvement, whether that be bringing in players that start, players in the right position, getting the ball down and trying to play or a plan b. Even something as basics as coaching the defense to work as a unit for 90 minutes.

I bought in to his vision and believe what he says and it's going to take time to achieve it but without being entitled or expecting miracles I do want to see some concrete baby steps that show signs that we are all moving in the same direction. Comments like that and the mismanagement of new players, faith in players who should be dropped and lack of playing style with no signs of him acknowledging his errors worries me greatly.

He has my backing and deserves this window and the summer to start showing some real intentions of this vision because at the moment that is all it is

 

Just surprised you would want to back him in two further windows given your observations in the earlier paragraph.

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, DE. said:

I find it stranger when people - especially directly after these results - react in a totally detached way or focus on attacking fellow fans expressing their anger/disappointment over the club's failings. I'd rather be honest and heartfelt than be snide and aloof. Everybody's different I suppose.

Completely agree. Some folk are so objective and dispassionate about it. I think they get more satisfaction from piously attack others for not just supporting the team.

I can understand a little more those who have been watching Rovers for 50+ years saying they’ve “seen it all before” but give me a passionate supporter every day of the week - even if I disagreed with them.

If the debate put forward from the “Get begins the lads fans” was reasons why - full stop - then I could respect that but time and time again it’s pointed comments and offensive digs at people. We only have to win on game and the knives are out for the disbelievers. You only need to look on Fb after most games.

Disappointed fans express anger at club

RTID fans express anger at disappointed fans - presumably because they can’t defend the manager/players

[K-Hod]

People just read what they want to read instead of what has actually been written. Which then causes confusion and frustration all around.

The holier than thou stance of some fans (not so much on here to be fair) on social media is absolutely pathetic. Any criticism of the team just gets twisted into something it isn't.

They're in for a tough life if they find it that hard to accept criticism......

Edited December 28, 2018 by K-Hod

[DE.]

8 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

People just read what they want to read instead of what has actually been written. Which then causes confusion and frustration all around.

What's funny is out of hundreds of posts one poster will say something like "Mowbray out!" and suddenly the narrative is that the entire of BRFCS wants Mowbray out and it's a disgrace and what happened to managers being given time and how ungrateful we all are after promotion last year and so on, and so on... literally all based on one or two posts. Happens every time. I try to avoid all of it and just post my opinions on the team/game but the frustration is having to wade through all of the bickering over what is ultimately total nonsense to find sensible posts that I actually want to respond to.