Mowbray’s Future

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

The problem is at the moment we have all the classic ingredients of a relegation bound team. We find it hard to score goals  from open play. The goals, when they do come, aren't shared around the team. We leak goals like a sieve, usually by means of that old chestnut " individual errors ". We don't know what are best team is and we don't really have more than one way of playing. Any manager of our opponents will be able say " What ever the score is in the last 15 minutes keep going lads because this lot are bottlers ".

The sooner we get to 50 points the better for me  because at this moment it's hard to see where a win will be coming from.

[roversfan99]

12 hours ago, Butty said:

It baffles me that some people hold our relegation against Mowbray when the amount of points we picked up under him, over the season would have kept us more than safe, he got us back up first time of asking and with our current squad still featuring the majority of that promotion side, the league table would suggest we are possibly overachieving! Don’t get me wrong Mowbray pisses me off sometimes with the way he sets us up and some of his decisions are more than questionable at times, but he’s made us very hard to beat and the reality is we don’t have enough quality in this team to play any other way. Next season is the one where if we strengthen in the summer, we should raise expectations of both Mowbray and the team, but for now I honestly think we are where we should be in the league, you cant say our lads dont give maximum effort every week, I just think with the quality in our squad, sometimes maximum effort still isn’t enough... I pray to god Mowbray gets his recruitment right in the summer but until then, calm down boys..... EDIT: Yes, suggesting to replace Mowbray with Aidy Boothroyd has to be one of the most mental things I’ve ever read on here. Absolute insult too TM that f**k me  

Ive not seen many hold the relegation against Mowbray (the fanbase was mainly in approval of him staying on) but no matter how you sugar coat it, the season he came in, his first brief was to keep us up and he failed. Talk about extrapolating his results is worthless, against mainly teams that had nothing to play for. Survival was always a difficult target but one that could have been achieved with one more point. Luckily for us all he did enough to convince us and the owners amidst failure that he was the man to take us into League 1.

It was his work last season that has given him a place in Rovers fans hearts.

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

That's true, but can I ask honestly what were your expectations at the beginning of the season? What position did you A-think we would finish in and B- would you have been happy with. 

Not saying you are guilty of this, but many of those completely over reacting now were those who said they would be happy with us just staying up. 

As you are though, I have big concerns about recent performances, particularly ;Preston , Wigan, Birmingham and Rotherham. 

Also the summer business is now looking poor. Mowbray showed a lot of faith in those who got us up. The momentum from last season carried on and we started pretty well. The lack of quality in key areas is showing now though. 

Personally though I think /hope Mowbray identifies this. Therefore I would give him the January and summer windows. 

A new manger coming in would unsettle the close knit squad. It would also more than likely hasten Dacks exit. While Mowbray got the summer business pretty wrong. He is getting this team, at times, playing to their strengths. Even though the last 8ish games, bar Wednesday, have been awfully frustrating. Prior to this, we pulled off some great results. 

For the record I dont want Mowbray sacked.

But I think many have chose to underestimate and downplay their expectations. Our wage bill is 10th to 16th so we are within the range we should be, not taking into account the very generous budget he had on transfer fees which brings up big, big questions. Anyone who mentions survival as the aim is being very unambitious to say the least.

You touch upon the key area where Mowbray perhaps has come or may come unstuck and that is in his recruitment. He often talks about x number of windows but based on previous windows, is that going to work as well as he thinks it will?

Hes shown no real signs of developing towards the style of play he often talks about and presumably the style to which he intended to use his new signings in, leaving them kicking their heels on the sidelines.

Ive always held question marks about him in terms of his recruitment. Overall, and especially this summer, its been poor. Hes totally ignored the foreign market for whatever reason. The Dack deal is very much the exception in terms of recruiting to develop.

I feel like his strengths have been what he has got from predominantly the players he inherited and also the team spirit he has managed to consistently foster. We will need more than that as the windows and the seasons move on.

[DE.]

3 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The problem is at the moment we have all the classic ingredients of a relegation bound team. We find it hard to score goals  from open play. The goals, when they do come, aren't shared around the team. We leak goals like a sieve, usually by means of that old chestnut " individual errors ". We don't know what are best team is and we don't really have more than one way of playing. Any manager of our opponents will be able say " What ever the score is in the last 15 minutes keep going lads because this lot are bottlers ".

The sooner we get to 50 points the better for me  because at this moment it's hard to see where a win will be coming from.

Agree, the signs are all there, although we should have enough in the bank this season at least to stay up. If our only creative player, Dack, leaves in January then it really will be a difficult second half of the season for us - and by that I mean for both the club and even more so the supporters. We aren't great to watch at the best of times, but without our only creative spark it will be a real slog watching eleven cloggers try to team spirit their way to victory every week. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Ive not seen many hold the relegation against Mowbray (the fanbase was mainly in approval of him staying on) but no matter how you sugar coat it, the season he came in, his first brief was to keep us up and he failed. Talk about extrapolating his results is worthless, against mainly teams that had nothing to play for. Survival was always a difficult target but one that could have been achieved with one more point. Luckily for us all he did enough to convince us and the owners amidst failure that he was the man to take us into League 1.

It was his work last season that has given him a place in Rovers fans hearts.

For the record I dont want Mowbray sacked.

But I think many have chose to underestimate and downplay their expectations. Our wage bill is 10th to 16th so we are within the range we should be, not taking into account the very generous budget he had on transfer fees which brings up big, big questions. Anyone who mentions survival as the aim is being very unambitious to say the least.

You touch upon the key area where Mowbray perhaps has come or may come unstuck and that is in his recruitment. He often talks about x number of windows but based on previous windows, is that going to work as well as he thinks it will?

Hes shown no real signs of developing towards the style of play he often talks about and presumably the style to which he intended to use his new signings in, leaving them kicking their heels on the sidelines.

Ive always held question marks about him in terms of his recruitment. Overall, and especially this summer, its been poor. Hes totally ignored the foreign market for whatever reason. The Dack deal is very much the exception in terms of recruiting to develop.

I feel like his strengths have been what he has got from predominantly the players he inherited and also the team spirit he has managed to consistently foster. We will need more than that as the windows and the seasons move on.

I don't buy this " team spirit " guff. Teams with a good team ethos don't fold in the last 15 minutes on a regular basis like we do.

[Butty]

If you look at Farke Wagner and Warnock in recent years, all three of those at Norwich Huddersfield and Cardiff had mediocre first seasons at this level before seeing a big improvement, neither of those three spent big money and we’ve just got to hope that given the chance, we can push on ourselves next season. I’m not saying that Mowbray should be given a free ride this season, I’ve said myself that some of his team selections and tactical decisions piss me off but I honestly think we lack the quality to expect anymore from this season than where we are currently at, next season is hopefully a different story and I’ll back TM until the day he fails. 

[RevidgeBlue]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

When Neal of this parish’s dad ended up chatting to Mowbray after the Wigan debacle. He was fuming and ranting and said ‘we WILL beat Sheff Wed, don’t you worry about that’

Now  that may be because Sheff Wed were shite at the time, but it isn’t something you’d hear ‘on the record’. 

All that matters is that he actually changes things, so the next month will be telling...

We'll see if TM is genuinely bothered by the recent calamities in his team selection tomorrow. My bet would be not and it's basically "same again lads" with any changes being limited to maybe Smallwood coming back in for Rodwell and no doubt he wont be able to resist bringing the ineffective Bennett back in the second he's fit.

[Butty]

 

6 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

We'll see if TM is genuinely bothered by the recent calamities in his team selection tomorrow. My bet would be not and it's basically "same again lads" with any changes being limited to maybe Smallwood coming back in for Rodwell and no doubt he wont be able to resist bringing the ineffective Bennett back in the second he's fit.

Hahaha you went quiet about Bennett for a while when all you used to do was slag him off, how you can have such a gripe with a player who without being the most talented gives absolutely everything for the shirt whenever he plays is beyond me. Maybe Bennett coming back into the side is exactly what we need, not for the fact he’s going to pick the ball up from 40 yards out beat 4 players and smash it in too the top bins, but more for his work rate and desire, and his leadership qualities on the pitch. Benno coming back in to the mix will hopefully give the boys a lift. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Butty

[blueboy3333]

18 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

We'll see if TM is genuinely bothered by the recent calamities in his team selection tomorrow. My bet would be not and it's basically "same again lads" with any changes being limited to maybe Smallwood coming back in for Rodwell and no doubt he wont be able to resist bringing the ineffective Bennett back in the second he's fit.

Bennett isn't the problem.  Maybe look over the other side of the pitch at the total non-contribution of anyone who plays on the left. 

Bennett also works harder than anyone on the pitch.

We haven't won many since he's been absent from our midfield. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by blueboy3333

[roversfan99]

13 minutes ago, Butty said:

 

Hahaha you went quiet about Bennett for a while when all you used to do was slag him off, how you can have such a gripe with a player who without being the most talented gives absolutely everything for the shirt whenever he plays is beyond me. Maybe Bennett coming back into the side is exactly what we need, not for the fact he’s going to pick the ball up from 40 yards out beat 4 players and smash it in too the top bins, but more for his work rate and desire, and his leadership qualities on the pitch. Benno coming back in to the mix will hopefully give the boys a lift. 

Going off on a tangent, I have never seen anyone doubt Bennett's work rate, effort or integrity.

That being said, that should not be enough to warrant selection alone. We are no longer going through a spell whereby commitment is what we are crying out for. 

The point in bold does you no favours. I do appreciate Bennett's qualities, and possibly would bring him back into the team when fit again. But theres a middle ground between taking 4 players on and scoring, and simply giving 100%. Giving 100% should be the very minimum anyone can offer, and I dont suspect that any of our players are not giving there all. If thats all we are asking though to get into our team, then there are issues.  

I have often questioned Bennetts attacking output, ie his lack of goals and assists, and I stand by that over the last year and a half, he hasnt contributed enough to goals. He shouldnt be beyond such conversation solely based on his desire.

 

[RevidgeBlue]

29 minutes ago, Butty said:

 

Hahaha you went quiet about Bennett for a while when all you used to do was slag him off, how you can have such a gripe with a player who without being the most talented gives absolutely everything for the shirt whenever he plays is beyond me. Maybe Bennett coming back into the side is exactly what we need, not for the fact he’s going to pick the ball up from 40 yards out beat 4 players and smash it in too the top bins, but more for his work rate and desire, and his leadership qualities on the pitch. Benno coming back in to the mix will hopefully give the boys a lift. 

He has looked decent in central midfield and I would have no real problem with him being selected  in that position but TM never plays him there   barring an injury crisis. imo he is hopeless out wide on either flankand not particularly good at RB.

Reed shouldn't be playing on the right wing either but if you're choosing between the two there's surely no comparison.

Edited December 28, 2018 by RevidgeBlue

[DE.]

Bennett is OK at right back (arguably better than Nyambe at both defending and crossing) and has always looked decent in CM (definitely better than Smallwood), yet ironically his natural position of RW is the position he's always been least impressive in. It's not just Bennett's work rate we miss when he's out of the team, but his overall experience. I'd have him back in the starting eleven ASAP.

[Butty]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Going off on a tangent, I have never seen anyone doubt Bennett's work rate, effort or integrity.

That being said, that should not be enough to warrant selection alone. We are no longer going through a spell whereby commitment is what we are crying out for. 

The point in bold does you no favours. I do appreciate Bennett's qualities, and possibly would bring him back into the team when fit again. But theres a middle ground between taking 4 players on and scoring, and simply giving 100%. Giving 100% should be the very minimum anyone can offer, and I dont suspect that any of our players are not giving there all. If thats all we are asking though to get into our team, then there are issues.  

I have often questioned Bennetts attacking output, ie his lack of goals and assists, and I stand by that over the last year and a half, he hasnt contributed enough to goals. He shouldnt be beyond such conversation solely based on his desire.

 

The point I was trying to make was as well as Bennett giving his all for the shirt, which like you say giving 100% should be expected from everyone of course, he is a leader in a team where there are a lot of young players and I was suggesting that those qualities may give the rest of the players a lift when he’s back fit.. I also don’t think he should be exempt from criticism just because he gives his all every week, It was more aimed at Rev who has constantly singled Bennett out for criticism for what seems like forever. There are games when you can single him out as not contributing enough in an attacking sense, he should get more assists and more goals but having a player like Bennett who is more often than not a 7/10 every week is someone you need at this level. He has his limitations but I dont like seeing him singled out in the way Rev has always done when a lot of the time he hasn’t deserved that level of criticism. 

[davulsukur]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I don't buy this " team spirit " guff. Teams with a good team ethos don't fold in the last 15 minutes on a regular basis like we do.

I think Team spirit is only ever really there when you're winning anyway. When you're getting beat every week people start looking around the dressing room for those who've made those individual errors that cost the team points.

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Bennett is OK at right back (arguably better than Nyambe at both defending and crossing) and has always looked decent in CM (definitely better than Smallwood), yet ironically his natural position of RW is the position he's always been least impressive in.

Disagree. Bennett is fairly poor at right back but when he's RM he contributes massively to the team and helps protects what is a fragile defensive unit. 

[DE.]

3 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Disagree. Bennett is fairly poor at right back but when he's RM he contributes massively to the team and helps protects what is a fragile defensive unit. 

He doesn't contribute much going forward though. Maybe his best position is RWB? Or just CM. 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, DE. said:

He doesn't contribute much going forward though. Maybe his best position is RWB? Or just CM. 

Agreed he's not a winger, he's a bit of an Emerton. RWB may be well be his best position but when we play at our best (shutting the opposition down and pressing high up the pitch) Bennett is our most important player IMO. 

[DE.]

4 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Agreed he's not a winger, he's a bit of an Emerton. RWB may be well be his best position but when we play at our best (shutting the opposition down and pressing high up the pitch) Bennett is our most important player IMO. 

Emerton is a good comparison, although with Bert it always felt like he was playing within himself (a bit like Ben Marshall) whereas with Bennett it feels like his high work rate compensates for not being the most technically gifted player. It always felt like Emerton could have given us a bit more.

[Ewood Ace]

Bennett's not a full back out of position too often and dives in way too much. His best position is probably central midfield but if Reed (our best CM) can barely get a game in there then Bennett has no chance, also for my liking Bennet gives the ball away a bit too much. On the wing Bennett is useful away from home (when you are going to see less of the ball) due to his work rate and assistance he gives the full back but Reed can do that just as well and he is also more than likely to be involved in a goal. And that is Bennett's biggest weakness when he plays wide as 1 of the 3 behind the striker he doesn't score or create enough goals which is what we desperately need from our front 4. Bennett represents both the good and bad of our squad the work rate you cant fault but the quality is lacking in other words far too many soldiers and too few artists.

[DE.]

The results with Bennett in the team versus Bennett being out of the team speak for themselves really. I don't think it's a complete coincidence that this shocking run of form has coincided with Bennett being injured. I think the only match he's played in since we beat QPR 1-0 is Preston? And he was playing with a fractured foot in that one too. 

Obviously one player doesn't make a team, but I think his influence is underestimated. 

[Stuart]

31 minutes ago, DE. said:

The results with Bennett in the team versus Bennett being out of the team speak for themselves really. I don't think it's a complete coincidence that this shocking run of form has coincided with Bennett being injured. I think the only match he's played in since we beat QPR 1-0 is Preston? And he was playing with a fractured foot in that one too. 

Obviously one player doesn't make a team, but I think his influence is underestimated. 

Secret captain as far as I’m concerned. Demands a certain level from himself and his teammates. Lambert knows a player.  

[JBiz]

32 minutes ago, DE. said:

 

Obviously one player doesn't make a team, but I think his influence is underestimated. 

Where he lacks that final ball quality at times, he makes it up in sheer effort and determination. Sorely missed.

[JBiz]

Just now, Stuart said:

. Lambert knows a player.  

Never got anywhere near the same level out of him though.

[Stuart]

40 minutes ago, Biz said:

Never got anywhere near the same level out of him though.

Never gave himself enough time. I don’t blame him either.

[blueboy3333]

2 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

And that is Bennett's biggest weakness when he plays wide as 1 of the 3 behind the striker he doesn't score or create enough goals which is what we desperately need from our front 4.

True to a point but Bennett isn't one of the fabled '2 and a half attackers'.  Goals and assists are the job of Dack, Graham and Armstrong. Only 2 of those are doing their job. Bennett also tends to play a bit more centrally than his equivalent on the left hand side, and a bit deeper. He's more part of a three man central midfield  - in much the same way Reed is when he plays there.    

Edited December 28, 2018 by blueboy3333

[roversfan99]

20 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

True to a point but Bennett isn't one of the fabled '2 and a half attackers'.  Goals and assists are the job of Dack, Graham and Armstrong. Only 2 of those are doing their job. Bennett also tends to play a bit more centrally than his equivalent on the left hand side, and a bit deeper. He's more part of a three man central midfield  - in much the same way Reed is when he plays there.    

I would like to think that Mowbray isnt necessarily as black and white as that in terms of goalscoring responsibilities. Sadly, im not too sure.

I know you will perceive this as me having an agenda etc against Bennett, but I don't believe that you can play wide men that aren't at least partially judged on their contributions to goals.

That is as much a criticism of our tactics as much as anything else. Most teams are mostly reliant on their strikeforce for goals but ours, in addition to direct set pieces from our centre back, we are in my opinion far, far too reliant on them.

Presumably the reason that we adopt such direct tactics, reliant on knock downs and the front 2 getting all of the goals are mainly geared towards being hard to beat and organised. Considering that only 5 teams have conceded more goals than us, added to our rotten recent form, and surely its time for a re-think!