Mowbray’s Future

[Mattyblue]

It depends.

If you think the manager is merely on a bad run, then of course sacking them can be counter productive, but it shouldn’t be a mantra for all circumstances.

How much time did Coyle need?

Edited January 2, 2019 by Mattyblue

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

It depends.

If you think the manager is merely on a bad run, then of course sacking them can be counter productive, but it shouldn’t be a mantra for all circumstances.

How much time did Coyle need?

Well that appointment stank from day one. Didn't we lose 4-1 to Norwich opening day and then not win in 7? Kean was the the same. By God they left him in situ in spite of fans for so long it felt like torture. 

Mowbray has shown he is no mug and can get results. We all know he is cautious, but I think we will move in the right direction under him ultimately. We have some good young players and he seems to be able to motivate them 

 

[DE.]

My main concern with Mowbray is that we won't really move in any direction under him. It'll be middle of the road forevermore unless there's some pretty significant investment in the first team squad (or in the wrong direction if players are sold and funds withdrawn, ala Bowyer). Obviously you have to give the man time to prove otherwise, but impressions from his first couple of years or so at the club suggests, to me, that he doesn't have the courage to push an average team into playoff/promotion contention. 

[Mattyblue]

Agreed BDS.

But generally speaking you need to see something to make you want to ‘give them time’. Some just aren’t up to it and need sacking before they do lasting damage.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Mattyblue

[Exiled in Toronto]

I’m of the view that Mowbray has two personas, the public one ever supportive of the players and the behind-the-scenes one, which I think came to the fore yesterday. Firstly, I don’t believe Williams is injured - he didn’t even go down against the Blades did he? Grayson on the bench in his place says to me TM has decided to make an example of Williams. Equally subbing Dack straight after that penalty. I think he’s had enough of whatever has been going on.

[Bigdoggsteel]

16 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I’m of the view that Mowbray has two personas, the public one ever supportive of the players and the behind-the-scenes one, which I think came to the fore yesterday. Firstly, I don’t believe Williams is injured - he didn’t even go down against the Blades did he? Grayson on the bench in his place says to me TM has decided to make an example of Williams. Equally subbing Dack straight after that penalty. I think he’s had enough of whatever has been going on.

Interesting observations. You could well be right

[DE.]

3 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I’m of the view that Mowbray has two personas, the public one ever supportive of the players and the behind-the-scenes one, which I think came to the fore yesterday. Firstly, I don’t believe Williams is injured - he didn’t even go down against the Blades did he? Grayson on the bench in his place says to me TM has decided to make an example of Williams. Equally subbing Dack straight after that penalty. I think he’s had enough of whatever has been going on.

I said in the match thread I hadn't heard anything about Williams being injured, so that was an odd one for me. Dack was clearly stunned to be given the hook as well, although I think that was more to do with Tony wanting to defend the lead than punishing Dack for his stupidity.

[old darwen blue]

Dack was subbed so we could play 4-4-2

[47er]

10 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Well that appointment stank from day one. Didn't we lose 4-1 to Norwich opening day and then not win in 7? Kean was the the same. By God they left him in situ in spite of fans for so long it felt like torture. 

Mowbray has shown he is no mug and can get results. We all know he is cautious, but I think we will move in the right direction under him ultimately. We have some good young players and he seems to be able to motivate them 

 

Surely, if TM doesn't get us up in the next 2 seasons, he'll be potted? God knows what happens then! Unless the plan is simply to produce an endless succession of Dacks!!

As opposed to an endless succession of Breretons of course! If that's his decision he'll already be on marshy ground! 

[steelcityblue]

Just for the record in view of the criticism TM has received on this thread. I, amongst a small number of others, have his back completely. It feels a bit like planting a galatasary flag in a fenerbache centre circle (if you catch my drift) but this bloke is the best thing to happen to Rovers for years and by miles our best manager since Sam ( and is a much better bloke IMV). We’ve had a bad run no question. But played top teams in the last four. He always said at the outset that we would win some and lose some this season but always hope to compete. And ultimately consolidate.  As far as I can remember very few thought that unreasonable ...until we started losing a few. But he has been proved so far correct.  We are not the finished article  but we have a team that competes, a club that is functional, a structure in place, a connection with fans and he is ..again IMV...completely responsible for that.  And I’m not going to be mealy mouthed and subject that to qualifications  like ‘needs to do better’. He’s doing bloody fine in my book.

 

[Stuart]

This is just like under Bowyer.

One win and it’s back to full-on superfan support.

I’ll carry on supporting Blackburn Rovers and not whichever millionaire happens to have the closest view of the pitch.

That said, Mowbray needs to build on this result now and not keep chopping and changing. Delighted with three points against the Baggies but he’s only one dodgy team selection of being right back at square one. A decent League One manager, an average Championship one.

[Scotland1]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

This is just like under Bowyer.

One win and it’s back to full-on superfan support.

I’ll carry on supporting Blackburn Rovers and not whichever millionaire happens to have the closest view of the pitch.

That said, Mowbray needs to build on this result now and not keep chopping and changing. Delighted with three points against the Baggies but he’s only one dodgy team selection of being right back at square one. A decent League One manager, an average Championship one.

 Bowyer for me is miles ahead of TM. Both seem to struggle with subs however and in game management.

No doubting GB has a far better transfer record without the luxuary of a 7 million player. 

Too many late goals being conceded so is it fitness or concentration it’s happening to often, something like 17 points we’ve lost or more from winning positions. 

Said at Wigan I’d hold of a new deal for TM, we came runners up to Wigan. He achieved the least expected, we needed to get to Easter to judge him, there is hardly a que for TM for any vacancy which about is a level of his stock on football.

Now after a bright start he’s languishing below mid table with a top half wage budget.

Big second half of the season to come up for sure. 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Scotland1

[steelcityblue]

I really liked Bowyer. Was a decent man with integrity and  intelligence and had a real eye for a player (perhaps aided by his dad? ) but he wasn’t able to reconstruct the club like Mowbray has.  Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think TM is perfect. And I doubt he does either. I just think he’s doing better than he’s given credit for on here. 

[Roverthechimp]

6 hours ago, Stuart said:

This is just like under Bowyer.

One win and it’s back to full-on superfan support.

Delighted with three points against the Baggies but he’s only one dodgy team selection of being right back at square one.

I hope the above was written with a touch of irony because otherwise i respect your opinion about TM even if i think he is doing a bloody good job.

Little bit worried that the disconnect between fans and team is creeping in but apart from shambolic defending i still see players running and battling hard - something lacking pre TM under Vs. Not all is rosy but better than i expected at the end of last season.

[Rover_Shaun]

9 hours ago, Stuart said:

This is just like under Bowyer.

One win and it’s back to full-on superfan support.

I’ll carry on supporting Blackburn Rovers and not whichever millionaire happens to have the closest view of the pitch.

That said, Mowbray needs to build on this result now and not keep chopping and changing. Delighted with three points against the Baggies but he’s only one dodgy team selection of being right back at square one. A decent League One manager, an average Championship one.

Promotion at a canter now Stuart. Though the first month or two was spent in the doldrums and the minimum expectation of 1st was missed despite having the best squad, best budget, best facilities etc far outstripping the 2nd best club in league one by some distance. This isn't to say that I am not grateful for promotion as a lesser manager could have easily stuffed it all up big time. But revisionism to one side the reality remains that the same doubts about Mowbray 'in the Champonship' remain from the 2016/17 season. The club still desperately needs another promotion to fix all the off the field problems that have never really gone away. Is Mowbray that man?

Edited January 3, 2019 by Rover_Shaun

[K-Hod]

7 hours ago, steelcityblue said:

I really liked Bowyer. Was a decent man with integrity and  intelligence and had a real eye for a player (perhaps aided by his dad? ) but he wasn’t able to reconstruct the club like Mowbray has.  Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think TM is perfect. And I doubt he does either. I just think he’s doing better than he’s given credit for on here. 

He's getting plenty of credit and always will, especially because of last season, it's just people were very concerned about us continually shipping late goals and making the same mistakes. 

If football fans can't discuss what the manager does well and does badly without being criticised for not giving the manager enough credit, then all football message boards might as well be closed down....

Edited January 3, 2019 by K-Hod

[Mattyblue]

End of the day him and his team get plenty of support at the grounds and that’s all that matters.

An internet forum, like the pub is a place to vent and that won’t change and it shouldn’t either. So on here, say what you want and don’t just ‘get behind the manager/team ffs!’

[blueboy3333]

7 hours ago, steelcityblue said:

 but he wasn’t able to reconstruct the club like Mowbray has.

Able or allowed? In reality he's done exactly what Mowbray did...except Bowyer was able to keep us in the Championship.... but wasn't allowed to choose his own CEO. 

Bowyer did a very good job here. He had better players because he was able to spot them and buy them...and he was never given £10m to spend either. If you think Mowbray gets it rough you should have been on here for the Bowyer days. Apparently all we needed was a different manager and those players would have got promoted Then Lambert turned up...and then Coyle. 

What Mowbray has done a lot better than Bowyer is galvanise the fanbase and create a better spirit around the club. Team spirit and players 'playing for the badge' is obviously something he genuinely cares about and wants the players to care about. He wants the players to connect with the fans. I can't think of another manager who has done it as well. The club is all the better for it. 

We are now in a situation where people are getting twitchy again. Calling for Mowbray's head is ridiculous. Comparing now to Bowyer's reign (as a pejorative) is also ridiculous. I think Mowbray makes some odd decisions, talks utter bobbins on occasions and seems to be very average in the transfer market (being kind) but we are mid-table in the Championship. I don't really think anyone can expect any better unless we can find one of the very few managers (Dyche, Warnock etc) who seem able to turn average sides into promotion winning sides within 12 months. 

If Mowbray goes then it will be up to V's to get a new manager, and we know how badly that can go. People tend to forget that . 

 

 

 

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Rover_Shaun said:

Promotion at a canter now Stuart. Though the first month or two was spent in the doldrums and the minimum expectation of 1st was missed despite having the best squad, best budget, best facilities etc far outstripping the 2nd best club in league one by some distance. This isn't to say that I am not grateful for promotion as a lesser manager could have easily stuffed it all up big time. But revisionism is rife however the stark reality is that the same doubts remain about Mowbray 'in the Champonship' from the 2016/17 season. The club still desperately needs another promotion to fix all the off the field problems that have never really gone away. Is Mowbray that man?

Probably not, but if that man exists will Venky's appoint him. Definitely not. 

[tomphil]

He's a good manager especially man management and the off field stuff but on it at times some of it is under parr and baffling. People say what they see with football and that will always be the case and i'm sure Mowbray is well aware of that. Every time there's a good performance or signing he gets credit and when it or they appear bad he gets questioned if he and the team didn't we'd slide down the league again with a whimper.

Some of the best performances both by the team and him selection/tactics wise have come in response to poor stuff and some stinging criticism, a point worth noting !

Not always the most vocal at home but Rovers have and always have had a passionate fanbase so it's par for the course, never been a club for faint hearted fans, players, managers and that's just the way it is.

Edited January 3, 2019 by tomphil

[blueboy3333]

14 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

End of the day him and his team get plenty of support at the grounds and that’s all that matters.

An internet forum, like the pub is a place to vent and that won’t change and it shouldn’t either. So on here, say what you want and don’t just ‘get behind the manager/team ffs!’

Exactly. The good will towards Mowbray is palpable for the match-going public...and beyond. I think everyone was as delighted for Mowbray as they were for the three points against WBA. Having a rant on here because his signing are a bit shit etc doesn't change that. 

[Ewood Ace]

The suspension of Smallwood and the long overdue emergence of Travis is exactly what is needed if the club is going to push on over the next few months and for next season. It seemed like it was going to take a lot for Mowbray to break up Smallwood and Evans but surely Travis' excellent performances coupled with Smallwood's brainless challenge has done just that. A midfield of Smallwood and Evans was very reminiscent of the Lowe and Williamson pairing in that both pairings were suppose to be defensive midfielder but they weren't a particularly great shield for the defence, they played central whilst a better player played wide right and in possession there is no forward thinking just side ways and backward passing that slows the play down. The difference with Travis the weekend was incredible not only did you have his work rate and getting stuck in but you had someone passing forward and not afraid to run with the ball. 

If Mowbray continues to put his faith in Smallwood and Evans like Bowyer did Lowe and Williamson it ultimately be his undoing as it was for Bowyer. A limited central midfield pairing will get you mid table at best. The young dynamic Travis is the future, sign Reed up as well play him central and we have a midfield that is head and shoulders above what we started the season with. It can do everything that Smallwood and Evans do plus much more. The big question is will Tony be brave enough to do it?

 

[philipl]

My bet is Evans will be dropped to make way for Smallwood.

[JacknOry]

11 hours ago, OnePhilT said:

I think Mowbray will see breaking up the Evans and Smallwood partnership as a gamble. The positions that both of them fill are primarily for defensive duties. Travis seems more like a proper central midfielder; he can both attack and defend in equal measure, unlike Smallwood and Evans.

I think both Smallwood and Evans are OK - possibly because you've just reminded me of the Willowe partnership - but I would much prefer to see someone like Travis shifted a bit further up the pitch into an ordinary central midfield role, and a quality brute signed to cover just one defensive midfield position - or maybe even Reed could be our man for that. I think that would give us a better shape and an extra man pushed forward to help with open-attacking play - something which we lack.

Anyway, as a minimum, Travis has given something Mowbray something to think about.

Our goals shipped column alone shows that just having these two their for defensive duties is not really working. A more dynamic pairing of Reed and Travis would mean that we would retain the ball a lot better and use it better to get forward rather than just giving it back to the oppo time after time. Reed and Travis are both high octane in your face midfielders that never stop running but they are also much more capable on the ball.

Edited January 4, 2019 by JacknOry

[Gav]

15 hours ago, K-Hod said:

He's getting plenty of credit and always will, especially because of last season.

Do you mean last season when the most popular thread of the year, until it was shut down, was calling for the managers head?

You can't rewrite history K-Hod, but you can close down threads.

Mowbray doesn't get anywhere near enough credit on here for what he's achieved in his short spell here. The clubs changed in so many ways, especially behind the scenes, and that goes unnoticed by many.

I never thought we'd be back in this league again under Venky rule, let alone watching a 20m midfield player pulling the strings to help us beating the likes of Hull, Stoke, Leeds and  WBA. 

Mowbray has us on the right track, even a blind man on a galloping horse can see that, can't he?