Mowbray’s Future

[chaddyrovers]

32 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

I'd have liked to challenge after completing deals worth around 12 million in fees this season yes, yet we have nothing to show for it. The 2/3 more windows mantra means we'd be looking at needing around 50 million to be promoted at that rate.

really? 

We were never going to get top 6 this season. No chance. 

depends who we buy and where from? I expect 7 or 8 signings this summer. 

7 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I'm somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd options.

If it were up to me, I'd have a chat with Tony and ask him, "Do you intend to extensively strengthen our defence this summer?". If the answer was no or he showed some hesitancy about that, I'd part ways but let him see it out until or maybe just before the end of the season whilst lining someone else up.

The problem isn't so much our league position or even the 4 straight defeats. These things can happen. The problem is the string of bizarre decisions (many of them repeating over and over), an inability to learn, complacency and an apparent lack of ambition.

Mowbray knows what needs to happen in terms of recruitment but he wasn't prepare to over pay for players in January. Surely this right way and what the point of getting your 4 or 5 choice for position you want a signing in for./ surely you want your 1st or 2nd choice?

[Dreams of 1995]

Mowbray has his failings that's for sure. When we were languishing in league 1 in October, having just gone down and bought some tosh players I reckon he should have gone then. That said they stuck with him, oversaw a promotion and now we sit mid table. He's done a fantastic job in a year and even brought talk of promotion about. There's no way he should be sacked.

Give him another season. It's the least he deserves.

 

[JHRover]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

really? 

We were never going to get top 6 this season. No chance. 

depends who we buy and where from? I expect 7 or 8 signings this summer. 

Mowbray knows what needs to happen in terms of recruitment but he wasn't prepare to over pay for players in January. Surely this right way and what the point of getting your 4 or 5 choice for position you want a signing in for./ surely you want your 1st or 2nd choice?

So if we'd have signed a proven CB and Britt Assombalonga for £10 million in January, but then continued our form through February and March, secured a top 6 position, and won promotion to the Premier league, would you be criticising Mowbray for 'overpaying' for players in January?

7 or 8 signings this summer, whilst clearly necessary, doesn't fit into the slow gradual building job?

 

[arbitro]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

really? 

We were never going to get top 6 this season. No chance. 

depends who we buy and where from? I expect 7 or 8 signings this summer. 

Mowbray knows what needs to happen in terms of recruitment but he wasn't prepare to over pay for players in January. Surely this right way and what the point of getting your 4 or 5 choice for position you want a signing in for./ surely you want your 1st or 2nd choice?

Out of interest Chaddy who would you get rid of?

[bluebruce]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

really? 

We were never going to get top 6 this season. No chance. 

depends who we buy and where from? I expect 7 or 8 signings this summer. 

Mowbray knows what needs to happen in terms of recruitment but he wasn't prepare to over pay for players in January. Surely this right way and what the point of getting your 4 or 5 choice for position you want a signing in for./ surely you want your 1st or 2nd choice?

I forgot to add a bit to my post. I meant to also add "We're giving you a healthy budget, go and fix the defence." I don't care if we pay over the odds in this area anymore. Defenders don't cost the earth and it is our major, major achilles heel. I also don't care if they're our 4th or 5th on a list because there are far more than 4 or 5 defenders out there who can improve us. I only care if they're better than what we've got. TM said Arma was his 3rd or 4th choice.

Besides Chaddy, yes TM said that but he was talking about attackers and midfielders. His comments made it very clear he wasn't looking for defenders. This is one of the most worrying things about him by far - failing to think he needs to strengthen our weakest area.

[Guest]

Just now, JHRover said:

So if we'd have signed a proven CB and Britt Assombalonga for £10 million in January, but then continued our form through February and March, secured a top 6 position, and won promotion to the Premier league, would you be criticising Mowbray for 'overpaying' for players in January?

7 or 8 signings this summer, whilst clearly necessary, doesn't fit into the slow gradual building job?

 

Stop talking sense!

And if they're to be first team players like he wants, how much are they gonna cost?! Chaddy just can't seem to critically think sometimes, whether by choice or not.

[Herbie6590]

I wish this poll had been set the day after the Hull City game...

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

really? 

We were never going to get top 6 this season. No chance. 

depends who we buy and where from? I expect 7 or 8 signings this summer. 

Mowbray knows what needs to happen in terms of recruitment but he wasn't prepare to over pay for players in January. Surely this right way and what the point of getting your 4 or 5 choice for position you want a signing in for./ surely you want your 1st or 2nd choice?

Chaddy. We spent 12 million this season. Spending 12 million i would have liked to be playing for something with 13 games to go. I would also, with 12 million of course, have liked to have brought in someone permanently who has improved our squad from last year, which we have not. Finally, with 12 million again, i would have liked to not be relying on a right midfielder and a CM to fill in a back 4 which conceded silly goals in league one, never mind the championship. 

To reiterate, we have potentially spent 12 MILLION POUNDS on nothing but squad players. How much do we need to give TM to threaten the top 6 if he can't even sign one first team player with that money? Armstrong was here last season and isn't being used correctly and Reed isn't even our player and they're the only 2 I'd judge as even remotely successful. 

[Norbert Rassragr]

See where we are in the summer. Issues like the defence and the tactics have to be addressed, with players being out of position. If a really good manager is available, or a good coach to help, get them.

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

really? 

We were never going to get top 6 this season. No chance. 

depends who we buy and where from? I expect 7 or 8 signings this summer. 

Mowbray knows what needs to happen in terms of recruitment but he wasn't prepare to over pay for players in January. Surely this right way and what the point of getting your 4 or 5 choice for position you want a signing in for./ surely you want your 1st or 2nd choice?

How do you know he knows what he needs in terms of recruitment?

Theres no OTT reaction. Out of those who have voted only 1 so far is certain they want him gone, many choosing to wait and see at the moment, many staunchly defending him. Hes getting criticised for aspects of his management that he has neglected and seemingly has no interest in trying to fix. Look at the number of signings hes made, hes spent well over 10m as Rovers manager, and bought a flimsy full back, a free midfielder used as a sticky plaster in defence, and 2 defenders not deemed worthy of even back up status, whilst spending loads on attackers.

What makes you think he will get his signings right this summer and that he will overhaul our terrible defence?

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Out of interest Chaddy who would you get rid of?

Luetwiler, Williams, Smallwood, Conway, Samuel

next season squad for me keeper- Raya, new keeper, Fisher

right back- Nyambe, new signing

Centre back- Lenihan, Mulgrew, Rodwell, new signing. 

left back:- Bell, new signing

centre back- Travis, Evans, Davenport, Bennett, new signing/Reed

wingers- Champan, Armstrong, Rothwell, new signing

strikers- Graham, Dack, Brereton, New signing

[Miller11]

Make no mistake about it, while things have improved while Mowbray has been here, the club is still a basket case.

Behind the scenes roles and remits are only ever loosely defined. We’ve witnessed power struggles and infighting before, and while the current set up of Waggot, Cheston and Suhail “international man of mystery” Pasha appears better than the Singh/Shaw/Agnew farce, god only knows what goes on.

Our transfer business is baffling, and I’d question how much say Mowbray has had in some of the signings. We have a “head of recruitment” but a pitifully limited scouting network by all accounts - who does he report to? And I still maintain there is something decidedly iffy about our reluctance to sign proper defenders - a constant during Venky’s reign of terror.

Whether it’s paranoia brought on by past experiences, I have a tendency to deeply analyse and think about all comments made by the manager... these recent ones down playing our chances of promotion, and in my mind the stature of the club, are irksome. Are they born of Mowbray trying to dampen Venky expectations? Does he really mean it? Is he trying to over deliver? Is it just the common rhetoric these days? I think Mowbray is naturally a pretty straight talker, but I get the impression there is something bubbling under the surface.

Personally I think Mowbray gets cut a lot of slack from the fan base as a whole. Last season was adequate. Anything less than promotion would have been unacceptable. While he may get too many plaudits for this, he probably also shoulders blame for things beyond his control at times.

There are certainly things Mowbray carries the can for completely that must be improved. Lack of fitness, silly defensive lapses, soft underbelly, pandering to certain players, team selections, limited tactics etc. So he’s far from infallible.

If the only reason people think he should keep his job is fear of who his replacement would be, then he probably isn’t the right man for it. It’s a valid concern though.

We are all approaching this question with passion, logic and above all else genuinely caring about what is best for the club - stances that will not be taken by Venky’s if and when the time to make such a call arises.

[Hasta]

Now he's given last years team a chance, I'd give him the summer bring in new faces and next season.

However as MattyBlue says, doing a 'great' job is not really fair when thats the only answer that implies you definitely want him to start next season. 

I'd have "Give him next season" as an option instead of re-assess in the summer. Is that not more or less the same as 'Just-only just"

Edited February 18, 2019 by Hasta

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

How do you know he knows what he needs in terms of recruitment?

Theres no OTT reaction. Out of those who have voted only 1 so far is certain they want him gone, many choosing to wait and see at the moment, many staunchly defending him. Hes getting criticised for aspects of his management that he has neglected and seemingly has no interest in trying to fix. Look at the number of signings hes made, hes spent well over 10m as Rovers manager, and bought a flimsy full back, a free midfielder used as a sticky plaster in defence, and 2 defenders not deemed worthy of even back up status, whilst spending loads on attackers.

What makes you think he will get his signings right this summer and that he will overhaul our terrible defence?

Mowbray isn't stupid and knows what he needs to get promote. 

so why are we having a poll about Mowbray at all then? haven't heard you criticise they being a poll like me. wonder why? 

I don't need to be told to look at the signings Mowbray has made. I remember them all. thanks roversfan99. 

You keep saying Rodwell is midfield but not at Rovers and under Mowbray. notice you didn't moan about him being in defence for those 3 clean sheets. wonder why? only complained when we lose

Cos I trust Mowbray. clearly you don't. 

[Ewood Ace]

I said after the Leeds capitulation that he should go, as I was fed up with our weak mentality and poor defending.  Two months on we are still mentally weak, the defending if anything has become even worse and the failure to address any of our problems in the January window only strengthened my view. So for me he is not the right man to take us forward as he has shown himself incapable of addressing the serious problems that we have.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Ewood Ace

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Luetwiler, Williams, Smallwood, Conway, Samuel

next season squad for me keeper- Raya, new keeper, Fisher

right back- Nyambe, new signing

Centre back- Lenihan, Mulgrew, Rodwell, new signing. 

left back:- Bell, new signing

centre back- Travis, Evans, Davenport, Bennett, new signing/Reed

wingers- Champan, Armstrong, Rothwell, new signing

strikers- Graham, Dack, Brereton, New signing

All of first team quality? 

[speeeeeeedie]

Lots of knee jerk reactions on here per usual in response to a bad patch. 2 months ago it was all playoff talk.

If Mowbray keeps Rovers up this season he has done his job. It's currently looking that way.

He has his flaws, a good reason why Rovers were able to get him as manager in the first place. Mourinho or Guardiola weren't going to trap up at Ewood were they?

I don't watch games but know that the team concedes too many late goals, and he doesn't seem to have a best 11. A lot of that is down to game preparation, ordinarily managed by the coaching staff. Again, as Rovers were picking from the bargain bin 2 years ago there's no one with Paul Clement's calibre setting the team up.

I wouldn't be against getting in a new first team coach, but stick with Mowbray.

[JHRover]

Just now, speeeeeeedie said:

 

I wouldn't be against getting in a new first team coach, but stick with Mowbray.

That would require us to remove David Lowe, and I think there's no chance at all of that happening. Friends in high places etc.

[Crimpshrine]

I think Mowbray has done just about enough to have another go next season - but it's a close call for me.

I think one major problem is his closeness to Waggott. I think they are both decent men but Waggott's remit is to cut costs wherever possible which may account for Mowbray's reluctance to spend in January. The summer recruitment was an expensive flop and another window like that may have had Venky's on their backs.

Mowbray has a long term contract so he won't be feeling too much pressure and is probably happy to be persuaded by Waggott that things are OK without splashing out at the moment.  Their futures are probably intertwined so if Venky's think Waggott is doing a good job, Mowbray is safe and secure. Waggott is a money man not a football man.

I would be happier with Mowbray if he had a more demanding, football savvy boss who put pressure on him to achieve more - feeling satisfied because we are 'doing nearly as well as Preston' is just nonsense. He needs to be more ambitious.

If the setup remains the same then I don't expect much improvement and I would then probably think a change is required. 

Having said that, a change is unlikely to bring anything better so what's the answer ?  I'm not sure there is one at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[speeeeeeedie]

Just now, JHRover said:

That would require us to remove David Lowe, and I think there's no chance at all of that happening. Friends in high places etc.

I'm showing my ignorance now. What does Mark Venus do? is he assistant manager?

What are Lowe's connections? If he's not going anywhere the club needs to send him on a coaching course.

[JHRover]

Just now, speeeeeeedie said:

I'm showing my ignorance now. What does Mark Venus do? is he assistant manager?

What are Lowe's connections? If he's not going anywhere the club needs to send him on a coaching course.

Venus is assistant manager as he always has been to Mowbray, except at Coventry where he was involved in recruitment and Mowbray had Jamie Clapham as his assistant.

I know Venus has had personal issues to deal with this season which was the reason he was absent a lot before Christmas, things seemed to pick up from New Years onwards when he was back in the dugout, possibly a coincidence though possibly a sign that his presence is needed.

I'm not sure what the crack is with Lowe but I find it interesting how he's managed to end up where he is. When Mowbray arrived he was immediately promoted from his job with the academy to assistant manager and then kept on whilst Dunn was demoted back to the reserves. I don't really know the bloke but something just doesn't stack up there with me. Maybe it's my paranoia after years of Venkys but I wonder how much choice Mowbray has had in that appointment and if none then who did.

[Ewood Ace]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Luetwiler, Williams, Smallwood, Conway, Samuel

next season squad for me keeper- Raya, new keeper, Fisher

right back- Nyambe, new signing

Centre back- Lenihan, Mulgrew, Rodwell, new signing. 

left back:- Bell, new signing

centre back- Travis, Evans, Davenport, Bennett, new signing/Reed

wingers- Champan, Armstrong, Rothwell, new signing

strikers- Graham, Dack, Brereton, New signing

Unusually for one of your posts Chaddy I don't actually disagree with much of that although I would have Bennett and Bell out as well. The problem is I don't see Mowbray getting rid of the likes of Smallwood and Williams, I also would not be at all surprised if he gave Conway another year. I also can't see Mowbray bringing in 7-8 players even though I agree with you that is what we need. All his comments and actions over the windows he has been here suggest that he isn't going to make big changes in one go, also given his dealings in the transfer market I wouldn't back him to bring the right players in.

[Parsonblue]

2 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Venus is assistant manager as he always has been to Mowbray, except at Coventry where he was involved in recruitment and Mowbray had Jamie Clapham as his assistant.

I know Venus has had personal issues to deal with this season which was the reason he was absent a lot before Christmas, things seemed to pick up from New Years onwards when he was back in the dugout, possibly a coincidence though possibly a sign that his presence is needed.

I'm not sure what the crack is with Lowe but I find it interesting how he's managed to end up where he is. When Mowbray arrived he was immediately promoted from his job with the academy to assistant manager and then kept on whilst Dunn was demoted back to the reserves. I don't really know the bloke but something just doesn't stack up there with me. Maybe it's my paranoia after years of Venkys but I wonder how much choice Mowbray has had in that appointment and if none then who did.

In fairness, Lowe is highly qualified and I believe to be very highly regarded within coaching circles.  From what I hear it was Mowbray's choice to keep Lowe with the first team.  I suspect because his work ethic is very similar to Mowbray in terms of the amount of time he devotes to the club.  The guy seems to spend a huge amount of time watching Under-23 games etc as well as his normal coaching duties.

[roversfan99]

49 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray isn't stupid and knows what he needs to get promote. 

so why are we having a poll about Mowbray at all then? haven't heard you criticise they being a poll like me. wonder why? 

I don't need to be told to look at the signings Mowbray has made. I remember them all. thanks roversfan99. 

You keep saying Rodwell is midfield but not at Rovers and under Mowbray. notice you didn't moan about him being in defence for those 3 clean sheets. wonder why? only complained when we lose

Cos I trust Mowbray. clearly you don't. 

The poll is obvious, to determine whether our fans want Mowbray to stay or go. At the moment, it proves that the vast majority at least for the time being are happy to keep him in situ.

I dont think anyone in their right mind would say Mowbray has done a job poor enough to warrant sacking, like say Coyle had, underachieving. This is something I posted in the other thread that has since vanished. The job he has done up to now has been good. There is a second type of managerial casualty, when it is felt that a manager has taken a club as far as he can, and that it is at risk of stagnating if it continues. An extreme example is Wenger, the job he did at Arsenal was superb but a change was long overdue, he had continiously ignored the need to add steel (ring any bells) and it needed fresh ideas. Another would be Adkins at Southampton, there was uproar but the club had the ambition to risk bringing in Pochettino. I thought when we let Bowyer go it was wise at the point of things going stale under him, unfortunately Venkys didnt stump up a competent replacement nor the resources to push on.

I know that Rodwell isnt a midfielder at Rovers under Mowbray! But that isnt debate over. I dont agree with how Mowbray has used him. It is possible to disagree with the managers decisions. He is an excellent technical footballer who whilst he did well in the 3 clean sheets, the attackers we faced (Will Keane, Chris Martin) were really poor and indeed he impressed mainly with what he did bringing the ball out. In other games, Wigan away, Brentford away, Forest at home, yesterday, the fact that he is not a centre back has stood out. For me, we are wasting a very competent midfielder but we have no choice but to play him as centre back as Mowbray has not brought defenders into the club.

Overall our defensive record this season has been shockingly poor. You seem reluctant to acknowledge that. Mowbray seemed non plus about it last week, he has been negligent in bringing defenders into the club whilst splashing out on "project" signing strikers who have yet to make an impact.

You are just throwing out words like trust without acknowledging his flaws. Does he know how to get us promoted? Not sure at all.

[Oldgregg86]

4 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Unusually for one of your posts Chaddy I don't actually disagree with much of that although I would have Bennett and Bell out as well. The problem is I don't see Mowbray getting rid of the likes of Smallwood and Williams, I also would not be at all surprised if he gave Conway another year. I also can't see Mowbray bringing in 7-8 players even though I agree with you that is what we need. All his comments and actions over the windows he has been here suggest that he isn't going to make big changes in one go, also given his dealings in the transfer market I wouldn't back him to bring the right players in.

If he gives Conway another year then I will seriously be pissed with him