Mowbray’s Future

[Silas]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I used to be on a " Rolex " owners site. It was run by Americans mainly for Americans with more money than good taste. A guy comes on with a photo of a watch he's just bought _ " What do we all think of the watch ? " Well I tell him, the dial is too cluttered, I don't like roman numerals, etc " . A bit later on the mods get on to me for spoiling his pleasure ! Couldn't I have been more positive about his purchase ? " He asked me for my opinion then didn't like what I said. Snowflakes are everywhere these days.

I told 'em what I thought and walked away from the site.

That is some contrasting pastimes you have there.

So, you go from debating the asthetics of fancy watches, to people frothing at the mouth on here about Brereton, Smallwood, and Williams. 

Talk about light and shade.

Please tell me the other 2 bookmarks on your browser are a stamp collecting and BDSM website and my day will be complete. ?

[Bbrovers2288]

Just now, Mercer said:

Recruitment is a problem and there are suggestions we appoint a Director of Recruitment. 

I think it's clear Mowbray doesn't have enough contacts and after the ludicrously expensive Brereton debacle why on earth should we trust his judgement.  Overall, I think his player trading is poor with too many Harts, Gladwins and Joe Averages.

Some suggestions in this thread Venus and Lowe should be replaced.  It was Mowbray who appointed them in their roles so yet again I would question his judgement.

Defensively, we had problems when Big Sam joined.  Seem to recall Sam being asked about a defensive coach and he replied something along the lines 'that's my job, I'll sort it'.  For crying out loud, Mowbray was a decent central defender yet he seems hopeless about organising our back four which I think I am correct in saying has conceded more away goals than any other team (other than Ipswich)  in the Championship and only three other teams have conceded more goals overall.

I look at our team and think:

• Are we physically and mentally fit.  IMO, nearly every team we meet seem better.  Look at how many late goals we concede.
• Is there an identity / structure / style to our play.  I think in the main, our football has been dire over the last two years - hoof, hoof and more hoof
• Are we getting the most out of our available players.  I think we see too many square pegs in round holes and Mowbray's favourites also being 'squeezed in'.  I can't see any consistency in selection.
• Are we progressing as a team.  I don't think we are.  There have been some shocking performances (M'boro, Preston and Wigan come readily to mind).  All teams get beat but it is the manner of defeat that matters and I think we have been abysmal too many times - IMO, that first half against M'boro was as bad as the Kean / C o y l e days

Mowbray inherited a tough situation from C o y l e and to get relegated on goal difference was galling after the points we lost from winning and drawing positions due to, IMO, Mowbray's game management.

Okay, Mowbray got us back but I think it was despite him and not because of him.  We were the best resourced club in a pi$$ poor League One and at times, I think we got out of jail given the very poor quality of the opposition. 

IMO, there's no mileage in giving Mowbray another window or seeing where we are come October / November next season.  IMO, there is little evidence to suggest Mowbray can take us any further and he should be replaced.

 

Hard to argue with that imo.

those, like myself, who are swayed or swaying over to the time for a change have very valid points for wanting to. Not like it’s a sudden knee jerk reaction, built up over time. Our performances in a whole since mowbray came haven’t been good enough. Promotion from league 1 doesn’t give you the keys to the city 

[blueboy3333]

2 minutes ago, Silas said:

 

Please tell me the other 2 bookmarks on your browser are a stamp collecting and BDSM website and my day will be complete. ?

Tyrone Handstogether is his handle on the BDSM site.

Er...apparently.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Recruitment is a problem and there are suggestions we appoint a Director of Recruitment. 

I think it's clear Mowbray doesn't have enough contacts and after the ludicrously expensive Brereton debacle why on earth should we trust his judgement.  Overall, I think his player trading is poor with too many Harts, Gladwins and Joe Averages.

Some suggestions in this thread Venus and Lowe should be replaced.  It was Mowbray who appointed them in their roles, and sees their day to day work, so yet again I would question his judgement.

Defensively, we had problems when Big Sam joined.  Seem to recall Sam being asked about a defensive coach and he replied something along the lines 'that's my job, I'll sort it'.  For crying out loud, Mowbray was a decent central defender yet he seems hopeless about organising our back four which I think I am correct in saying has conceded more away goals than any other team (other than Ipswich)  in the Championship with only three other teams have conceded more goals overall.

I look at our team and think:

• Are we physically and mentally fit.  IMO, nearly every team we meet seem better.  Look at how many late goals we concede.
• Is there an identity / structure / style to our play.  I think in the main, our football has been dire over the last two years - hoof, hoof and more hoof
• Are we getting the most out of our available players.  I think we see too many square pegs in round holes and Mowbray's favourites also being 'squeezed in'.  I can't see any consistency in selection.
• Are we progressing as a team.  I don't think we are.  There have been some shocking performances (M'boro, Preston and Wigan come readily to mind).  All teams get beat but it is the manner of defeat that matters and I think we have been abysmal too many times - IMO, that first half against M'boro was as bad as the Kean / C o y l e days

Mowbray inherited a tough situation from C o y l e and to get relegated on goal difference was galling after the points we lost from winning and drawing positions due to, IMO, Mowbray's game management.

Okay, Mowbray got us back but I think it was despite him and not because of him.  We were the best resourced club in a pi$$ poor League One and at times, I think we got out of jail given the very poor quality of the opposition. 

IMO, there's no mileage in giving Mowbray another window or seeing where we are come October / November next season.  IMO, there is little evidence to suggest Mowbray can take us any further and he should be replaced.

 

Great post.

About our hoofball. In my opinion, our best halves of 'football' speaking only in terms of keeping it on the deck etc came in the first half at Reading and Sheffield United, both when there is no Graham because it just seems too tempting to lump it when he's up there! I remember when we had Gestede, and Duffy was being called out on twitter about the hoofball and his response was "we have one of the best headers in the league, why wouldn't we try and use it?".

Footballers too often look to pass the buck as fast as possible and look for the easy ball out and when Graham doesn't start the game they know they can't get away with it. Mowbray often refuses to criticise our style of play, but for someone whose Boro team came to Ewood and played us off the park under Kean and WBA team who played lovely stuff when they went up as Champions, he surely can't be happy putting that team out in his image and Saturday must have been embarrassing for him. Hopefully he has targets in mind to address this, but whilst we play 4231 and Graham up top I don't see how we can play attractive football due to Grahams lack of mobility and pace.

After 2 years, i still don't know what kind of 4231 he even wants to play, we're currently playing one with our 2 widest players of the 3 being a striker and a CM. Are we trying to play a formation where the widest players are like wingers, like Norwich and Leeds? Or are we playing a narrow version where we effectively have 3 attacking midfielders but currently don't have the personnel to do it? His signings of Rothwell (CAM) Palmer (CAM) and then Chapman (Winger) suggests even he doesn't know and has gone for a bit of both. Would've been interesting to see where he planned to put Freeman in this current set up had our bid been accepted although it wouldn't have surprised me to see him slot in at right back to allow Conway a game.

[Ewood Ace]

48 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

 

That's what he has said alright, but should he have known who would be good enough without trying them out? He has a lot of work to do now in the summer due to lack of addressing concern issues in summer and in January. I am all for giving him time, but I am concerned that a lack of pro-activity with regards who is good enough or not leaving too much to do this summer to put us in a position to compete for promotion next season. 

We need 1-2 center halves, 1 right back,1 left back, 1 winger and at least 1 striker. Of those players we need at least 3 of them to be good enough to come straight into the starting 11. Definitely 1 center half, 1 striker and 1 winger (to replace Reed) need to all be top players. If we had have signed even a good center half and striker last summer or in January, that would mean less to do next summer. 

If last summer was 3/10 with regards recruitment, then next summer needs to be 8 or even 9 out of 10. 

He has it all to do 

 

Although me and you voted completely different ways I completely agree with you that we have to get rid of a fair few players and bring in a fair few who are capable of going straight into the first team. Where my worries lie are that I don't believe that Mowbray will give up on some of his favourites who are not up to this level, I think he has blind faith in some of them and it always worries me when he says that its difficult to bring players in to improve the team and he then always talks about the myth of how great the team spirit is. 

Also if he were to bring in a number of players, I have doubts over whether he is the man to bring the right players in as his contacts seem very narrow and after spending a fair chunk of money in the Summer only a loan player in Reed has improved the team from what we had last season. Also look at the player's he signed Reed, Brereton, Palmer, Rodwell and Armstrong have all been primarily been used out of position. As for a centre back we have desperately needed one since Duffy and Hanley left but we still haven't got one and that includes the 4 windows that Mowbray has had.

I would completely agree with you that he has it all to do and that is of his own making. Sadly I just don't think that he is the man to do it.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Ewood Ace

[HowieFive0]

29 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Recruitment is a problem and there are suggestions we appoint a Director of Recruitment. 

I think it's clear Mowbray doesn't have enough contacts and after the ludicrously expensive Brereton debacle why on earth should we trust his judgement.  Overall, I think his player trading is poor with too many Harts, Gladwins and Joe Averages.

Some suggestions in this thread Venus and Lowe should be replaced.  It was Mowbray who appointed them in their roles, and sees their day to day work, so yet again I would question his judgement.

Defensively, we had problems when Big Sam joined.  Seem to recall Sam being asked about a defensive coach and he replied something along the lines 'that's my job, I'll sort it'.  For crying out loud, Mowbray was a decent central defender yet he seems hopeless about organising our back four which I think I am correct in saying has conceded more away goals than any other team (other than Ipswich)  in the Championship with only three other teams have conceded more goals overall.

I look at our team and think:

• Are we physically and mentally fit.  IMO, nearly every team we meet seem better.  Look at how many late goals we concede.
• Is there an identity / structure / style to our play.  I think in the main, our football has been dire over the last two years - hoof, hoof and more hoof
• Are we getting the most out of our available players.  I think we see too many square pegs in round holes and Mowbray's favourites also being 'squeezed in'.  I can't see any consistency in selection.
• Are we progressing as a team.  I don't think we are.  There have been some shocking performances (M'boro, Preston and Wigan come readily to mind).  All teams get beat but it is the manner of defeat that matters and, worryingly, I think we have been abysmal too many times - IMO, that first half against M'boro was as bad as the Kean / C o y l e days

Mowbray inherited a tough situation from C o y l e and to get relegated on goal difference was galling after the points we lost from winning and drawing positions due to, IMO, Mowbray's game management.

Okay, Mowbray got us back but I think it was despite him and not because of him.  We were the best resourced club in a pi$$ poor League One and at times, I think we got out of jail given the very poor quality of the opposition.  

IMO, there's no mileage in giving Mowbray another window or seeing where we are come October / November next season.  IMO, there is little evidence to suggest Mowbray can take us any further and he should be replaced.

 

Sorry Merce ..cant agree with this bit of your post. If Mowbray was at fault for taking us down by one goal  then he must get credit for getting us promotion. You don't just get lucky and amass 96 points with only 6 losses all season regardless of which league you are in with a manager who has no influence. It simply doesn't happen.

If history says in your eyes Mowbray took us down then history also says Mowbray took us up.

Sunderland will be romping it then this season …?

[blueboy3333]

If we are going to start playing more football on the deck we need players who can pass the ball. Evans and Smallwood are just scuttlers really who can disrupt the opposition. Evans has a bit of ability passing wise but it's mainly sideways and backwards. Travis adds a lot of energy to the middle of the park but I wouldnt say he was overly creative. I'm hoping a playmaker is brought in in the summer or its going to be very difficult to 'evolve' our style as Mowbray has promised. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

If we are going to start playing more football on the deck we need players who can pass the ball. Evans and Smallwood are just scuttlers really who can disrupt the opposition. Evans has a bit of ability passing wise but it's mainly sideways and backwards. Travis adds a lot of energy to the middle of the park but I wouldnt say he was overly creative. I'm hoping a playmaker is brought in in the summer or its going to be very difficult to 'evolve' our style as Mowbray has promised. 

Maybe Davenport can do that. It's an interesting question. I mean Dack plays 10, but isn't it really 2 upfront with Dack off Graham that we play? 

I just wonder is a formation change pretty much nailed on if we are to "evolve" our style or even tighten up at the back

 

Straight 4-4-2

                            Raya

     Nyambe Lenihan Rodwell Bell

Bennett Davenport Travis Armstrong

                    Dack Graham

 

5-4-1 or 3-3-3-1

                            Raya

         Rodwell Lenihan Mulgrew

Nyambe                                        Bell

                      Davenport

      Armstrong   Dack     Chapman

                      Graham 

 

                         

 

 

[HowieFive0]

I think its going to take more than a change of formation to evolve our style of play ..its going to cost money. 

The players we have in certain positions now are simply not good enough to play a more ..footballing ..expansive style of play . Its there to see. 

If we want to compete consistently and be up in the top six positions next season better class of players are going to be required and that would be my main concern is whether we d have the funds to actually buy these players...regardless of whos the manager.

At the moment we are a very mid table side ..which the majority on here thought we would be equating  into a  decent season on our return to the Championship. To go to the next level is going to take some big  funding in my eyes.

[oldjamfan1]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

Recruitment is a problem and there are suggestions we appoint a Director of Recruitment. 

I think it's clear Mowbray doesn't have enough contacts and after the ludicrously expensive Brereton debacle why on earth should we trust his judgement.  Overall, I think his player trading is poor with too many Harts, Gladwins and Joe Averages.

I look at our team and think:

• Are we physically and mentally fit.  IMO, nearly every team we meet seem better.  Look at how many late goals we concede.
• Is there an identity / structure / style to our play.  I think in the main, our football has been dire over the last two years - hoof, hoof and more hoof
• Are we getting the most out of our available players.  I think we see too many square pegs in round holes and Mowbray's favourites also being 'squeezed in'.  I can't see any consistency in selection.
• Are we progressing as a team.  I don't think we are.  There have been some shocking performances (M'boro, Preston and Wigan come readily to mind).  All teams get beat but it is the manner of defeat that matters and, worryingly, I think we have been abysmal too many times - IMO, that first half against M'boro was as bad as the Kean / C o y l e days

IMO, there's no mileage in giving Mowbray another window or seeing where we are come October / November next season.  IMO, there is little evidence to suggest Mowbray can take us any further and he should be replaced.

 

As someone else said, its difficult to argue with this part of your post Merce, and with a slightly heavy heart I do think maybe we should make a change.

 

Trouble is, do we trust 'them' to make a decent appointment........??

[Ewood Ace]

5 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Trouble is, do we trust 'them' to make a decent appointment........??

That is of course the worry but for me its not a reason for keeping Mowbray. Also now could be a good time to make the change because going of their last 3 appointments the only qualification you need is to have been promoted from this league and at the moment their are some good managers about who have that qualification I'm thinking of the like of Jokanovic, Wagner and Karanka. 

[HowieFive0]

31 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

That is of course the worry but for me its not a reason for keeping Mowbray. Also now could be a good time to make the change because going of their last 3 appointments the only qualification you need is to have been promoted from this league and at the moment their are some good managers about who have that qualification I'm thinking of the like of Jokanovic, Wagner and Karanka. 

Wouldn't touch Karanka  always conflict with club owners !

(and hes never gained a promotion either )

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, HowieFive0 said:

Wouldn't touch Karanka  always conflict with club owners !

(and hes never gained a promotion either )

He got Middlesbrough promoted.

[Bbrovers2288]

Karanka is a yes from me, can punt Ben for a second time 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, Silas said:

That is some contrasting pastimes you have there.

So, you go from debating the asthetics of fancy watches, to people frothing at the mouth on here about Brereton, Smallwood, and Williams. 

Talk about light and shade.

Please tell me the other 2 bookmarks on your browser are a stamp collecting and BDSM website and my day will be complete. ?

International Man Of Mystery. Liking nice watches is just God's way of telling you you've got too much money.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[HowieFive0]

18 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

He got Middlesbrough promoted.

Apologies Ace ..he did indeed !

[Leonard Venkhater]

17 hours ago, Lie_still_Rover said:

Love how you all demand loyalty from players and managers.. 

Lose a few games,  have a dodgy patch of form and you'd throw them under a bus.. 

Fickle springs to mind.. 

We aren't even having a bad season.. 

 

 

4

So does denial...

[Leonard Venkhater]

7 hours ago, tomphil said:

A few out in the wide world love smearing this board elsewhere yet regularly lurk amongst us, know thine enemy ....?

Ah, good old Titus Oates at it again?

[Ewood Ace]

7 minutes ago, unsall said:

Thats the problem with quite a few on here, no patience, he knows he has to widen his recruiting in Europe, give the man some time.

Rather worrying that it has took him so long to realise it though, a number of posters on here have highlighted the European market for some time yet he didn't decide to the end of the January window that it was something we needed to consider. To get a good scouting system in place will take time and isn't going to be ready for the summer window so that will be another window that we enter with one hand tied behind our back. As I have said previously the best thing to do is take signings out of Mowbray's remit and bring in a head of recruitment who has knowledge of both the British and European Leagues.

[Oldgregg86]

3 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Tyrone Handstogether is his handle on the BDSM site.

Er...apparently.

I thought it was chokemewith shoelaces

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Our next step up is a return to the top flight,that must be our aim...we cannot rest on our Laurels.

Is TM the man to take us there,does Tony himself believe he can do it?.If he has any doubts whatsoever he must step aside.....PROGRESS NOT STAGNATION.

Edited February 19, 2019 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[blueboy3333]

23 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

I thought it was chokemewith shoelaces

I see you're a connisseur, sir, of the finer elements of the BDSM business. 

50 Shades of Gregg. 

[DeeCee]

7 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I used to be on a " Rolex " owners site. It was run by Americans mainly for Americans with more money than good taste. A guy comes on with a photo of a watch he's just bought _ " What do we all think of the watch ? " Well I tell him, the dial is too cluttered, I don't like roman numerals, etc " . A bit later on the mods get on to me for spoiling his pleasure ! Couldn't I have been more positive about his purchase ? " He asked me for my opinion then didn't like what I said. Snowflakes are everywhere these days.

I told 'em what I thought and walked away from the site.

So you got a ticking off?

[m1st]

I rarely visit the Message Boards for which I signed up in my early years on t'Interweb because, while I respect other people's views, I don't like the way that many of them - including dome of the ones I agree with - are expressed.

I haven't voted in this poll because none of the options represent my precise views on here.

Those fans I know personally are probably fed up of me pointing out that when I watched the first match I remember my Dad bringing me to - 65 years ago - we were in mid-table in Division Two. And where are we now? Mid-table in the Championship.

While it would be WONDERFUL to be back in the Premier League, I would rather see it happen slowly and steadily, and wouldn't worry too much if it didn't happen next season or even the season after that.

We've had a real rollercoaster ride over those 65 years and after the misjudgement, imo, of our owners replacing Allardyce, with first Kean, then Bowyer, I welcomed the arrival of Tony Mowbray as our first "proper" football manager since BFS was sacked.

I'm becoming less enamoured of TM because of some of the points that others have made; it's felt like we've signed players whom he knew when they were in their early years and who are -probably - just about capable of functioning at our present level. To me, we feel over-provided for in midfield  - that group of the squad has almost got a 'Never mind the quality, feel the width' - with the defence and attack under-populated by comparison.

I worry who the owners would choose to replace Mowbray if they decided to sack him; but, for the time being, I guess it's better the devil we know for the time being. But the summer window will be crucial; he has to show a ruthless streak towards lads who may have reached their peak professionally and cannot push us further up the table.

[Silas]

53 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

 

50 Shades of Gregg. 

All I'm seeing is differing levels of burnt pasties.