Mowbray’s Future

[blueboy3333]

It's over 4% who want him sacked now as another day goes by without a win.

[chaddyrovers]

36 minutes ago, Mercer said:

The statistics just confirm what we see with our own eyes!

Backfired on Chaddy did that one.

So did we play long ball against Hull or Reading? No we didnt. Against Hull we played just over 21% and against Reading we played below 20%. Now against some other sides is around 25% or slightly below. 

Thats stats will including our switch of play between one wing and another. So that stats arent right either. 

And no it didnt backfired on me either Mercer. ?

 

[jim mk2]

 

Long ball or short ball game is irrelevant.  There's only winning football or losing football, and at the moment we're losing - badly.  I don't understand why fans obsess over us having a good passing game when it leads only to defeat. Pragmatists such as Sam Allardyce and Tony Pulis understand it. 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

 

Long ball or short ball game is irrelevant.  There's only winning football or losing football, and at the moment we're losing - badly.  I don't understand why fans obsess over us having a good passing game when it leads only to defeat. Pragmatists such as Sam Allardyce and Tony Pulis understand it. 

We're losing with a pragmatic approach so it isn't that simple either. 

[Oldgregg86]

Forget stats , there easily manipulated for either side of an argument and don't often correspond with what is actually happening on the pitch.  I.e we had the most possession  and played the most passes...  but it was in our half and we lost 3-0. you play to your teams strengths. Can someone remind me what ours are again please 

[DE.]

36 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

We're losing with a pragmatic approach so it isn't that simple either. 

I'm not sure our approach is as much pragmatic as it is desperate and lacking ideas. I doubt Mowbray is drilling the percentage game and long ball positional play into the players. I could be wrong but I feel like our long balls are more a byproduct of a lack of ideas or passing options on the pitch, particularly at the back, which just ends up with a hopeful hoof up to Graham. The fact it's happening enough to make us joint top in the long ball table suggests that we really do have a problem with players making themselves available for passes and being aware of where they and the opponents are on the pitch. 

[blueboy3333]

2 minutes ago, DE. said:

I'm not sure our approach is as much pragmatic as it is desperate and lacking ideas. I doubt Mowbray is drilling the percentage game and long ball positional play into the players. I could be wrong but I feel like our long balls are more a byproduct of a lack of ideas or passing options on the pitch, particularly at the back, which just ends up with a hopeful hoof up to Graham. The fact it's happening enough to make us joint top in the long ball table suggests that we really do have a problem with players making themselves available for passes and being aware of where they and the opponents are on the pitch. 

 I mean pragmatic in the sense that we aren't good enough to play through the 'thirds' so we play to the strengths of the players we have. 

[DE.]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

 I mean pragmatic in the sense that we aren't good enough to play through the 'thirds' so we play to the strengths of the players we have. 

I'm not sure if it's intentionally playing to our strengths or just a result of our weaknesses. Playing the long ball game is OK if it's part of a strategy but I don't really get that feeling when watching us, it seems more like hit and hope a lot of the time. In theory we have the players up front in Dack, Armstrong, Rothwell, Brereton (?) and Reed to hurt the opposition as and when we win knock downs, but I'm unsure as to whether that is our actual strategy or not. If so then I think our form from November-December and now through February suggests teams might have found us out!

[47er]

7 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Of course there would have been more positivity... but 4 losses on the bounce, on the back of a disappointing transfer window that failed to see us address some glaring defensive issues, and comments in the press that give the impression that Mowbray is struggling to see any problems where many of us have has led to people asking questions.

If we win the next 4, people will be a lot happier, but the majority recognise he can’t walk on water.

Actually, the majority have doubts about him. The single most popular choice is "reassess in summer"

[47er]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

So did we play long ball against Hull or Reading? No we didnt. Against Hull we played just over 21% and against Reading we played below 20%. Now against some other sides is around 25% or slightly below. 

Thats stats will including our switch of play between one wing and another. So that stats arent right either. 

And no it didnt backfired on me either Mercer. ?

 

You should say "attempting" to switch play between one wing and another, What percentage of those long, diagonal balls (usually from Mulgrew) actually find their target? How many are simply headed back by defenders?

Setting up the oppositions next attack is a more accurate way of putting it rather than transferring play from one wing to another.

No good keep concentrating on the Hull game because it suits your argument. That was the best we've played all season but the stats (including the little matter of points) show that game to be very atypical. And what does it matter what the stats show in the Reading game? We lost!

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

So did we play long ball against Hull or Reading? No we didnt. Against Hull we played just over 21% and against Reading we played below 20%. Now against some other sides is around 25% or slightly below. 

Thats stats will including our switch of play between one wing and another. So that stats arent right either. 

And no it didnt backfired on me either Mercer. ?

 

Would be fantastic if we had a player, better still more than one player, who had the ability to make a sweeping pass from wing to wing ala the great David Wagstaffe.

How ironic the statistics you used to try and demonstrate Rovers are not a long ball team are, according to you, now flawed !!!  ?

[Pedro]

I am more annoyed with the weak mentality and poor application of the players at the minute, than I am of the manager.  If everyone approached every minute of every match like Reed does, we'd be much higher up the league and not bickering over naff statistics of whether we're a long ball team.  We've had similar arguments over the years and I'll always view it as the players are professionals and it is them who should be accountable for mistakes and lack of concentration/effort on the pitch.  I think quite a few will play their way out of the side over the course of the run in.  They did a great job last season (although shaky at times too) but quite a few don't have the mettle to take us to the next level.

[chaddyrovers]

52 minutes ago, Mercer said:

 

How ironic the statistics you used to try and demonstrate Rovers are not a long ball team are, according to you, now flawed !!!  ?

. if you say so Mercer. 

1 in 5 passes make you now a long ball team now. against Reading is was roughly 1 in 6 passes. 

We aren't going to agree on Mowbray one bit so lets just leave it there

[tomphil]

If we play the counter attacking game we are capable of playing some good stuff on the break and scoring goals but we tend to start with two defensive mids and sit too deep passing it across the back 4 and forcing ourselves to whack it long more often than good counters because of the cronic lack of wingers and pace. It has worked well a few times but as stated we get a goal then retreat and get punished.

When we play a bit more expansive and a bit further up with maybe only one DM then we look decent taking it too the opposition but often end up in a we score two you score three open type game. Defence just isn't good enough to cope with that against a lot of teams who have a decent goal scorer or two.

Trick is finding the right balance not wholesale changes in tactics and personnel every week to try and negate often modest opposition. To do any of those you need a solid base of a defence and that's something he really needs to man up and address in summer otherwise it'll be rinse and repeat.

[blueboy3333]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/football-league-blog/2019/feb/20/bury-ryan-lowe-jurgen-klopp-football-league-pep-guardiola

Ditch the Mow, get the Lowe. 

[Bbrovers2288]

11 hours ago, Pedro said:

I don't think we are a long ball team at all. Most often, we are a very good side when we are at 0 - 0. We hassle the opposition, pass effectively, close down, move quickly and hit them on the break - until we go in front.

Then we become lethargic, try to walk through the rest of a match, stop harassing the opposition, aimlessly smash the ball away from defence, struggle to string two passes together and get caught out napping multiple times in quick succession because our rhythm and winning mentality is long gone.  It is massively frustrating.

I don’t really agree with this assessment to be honest, I don’t think we are a good side and we start horrifically slow. We scored a few good goals on the break last year, such as dacks v pboro, but this year not so much

[Uddersfelt Blue]

8 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/football-league-blog/2019/feb/20/bury-ryan-lowe-jurgen-klopp-football-league-pep-guardiola

Ditch the Mow, get the Lowe. 

Interesting piece on Rakeem Harper who is apparently doing great at West Brom

[Butty]

12 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

. if you say so Mercer. 

1 in 5 passes make you now a long ball team now. against Reading is was roughly 1 in 6 passes. 

We aren't going to agree on Mowbray one bit so lets just leave it there

Yes but think how many of those passes were side too side, not going anywhere. We have a tendency to keep the ball and not do anything with it and then end a sequence of nice short passing by launching one up to Graham and losing possession. You can’t really use stats too determine if we are a “long ball team” it’s something you can make your own judgement about by watching the games, for me personally we rely heavily on long balls to DG to either flick on or hold up.. We are a very direct side, which at times can be effective. But when you’re not getting results playing that way it makes it worse!

[OJRovers]

1 hour ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

Interesting piece on Rakeem Harper who is apparently doing great at West Brom

Last season you could see the potential with him, but he was nowhere near ready to play 1st team football, even in league one.

He's obviously come on massively since then. Hopefully this will happen with Brereton, although i've not seen the potential yet.

 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

1 hour ago, Butty said:

Yes but think how many of those passes were side too side, not going anywhere. We have a tendency to keep the ball and not do anything with it and then end a sequence of nice short passing by launching one up to Graham and losing possession. You can’t really use stats too determine if we are a “long ball team” it’s something you can make your own judgement about by watching the games, for me personally we rely heavily on long balls to DG to either flick on or hold up.. We are a very direct side, which at times can be effective. But when you’re not getting results playing that way it makes it worse!

We don't play the long effectively. There is never anyone around to pick up the second ball as the midfield are too deep.

[Butty]

1 hour ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

We don't play the long effectively. There is never anyone around to pick up the second ball as the midfield are too deep.

At times it has been effective, there have been games where the only time we have carried a threat is when the long ball too DG has been held up for Dack to go on a run or Armstrong to get in behind 

[tomphil]

And times it's fallen apart when we've kept doing it after DG has gone off although he's moved away from that a bit recently....?

[Blue blood]

My main issue with TM is the horribly unbalanced squad. 

We seem to have a glut of midfielders yet not one who is naturally a wide left player. Even our wide right players don't really look totally comfortable there (Armstrong and Bennett) although compared to other positions bar centre mid it's not first priority. 

Lenihen spent a lot of last season injured, Mulgrew seems to be fading but we didn't get in another top class centre back. Even if Mulgrew wasn't fading so fast given his age it would have been wise to plan for this

 Speaking of no cover and replacing older players whilst Graham hasn't faded there is no other striker at the club who can fulfil that role. Forgetting the price (criminal in itself) Bereton is not championship standard and Armstrong may give a decent plan B but can't do Graham's role. 

Likewise where is the cover for Dack? Perhaps it was meant to be Palmer who I didn't really rate but regardless again we have no creative back up for the hole position either.

So in short we are resting our season on 2 players being fit, as well as ignoring a 3rd key position in our preferred formation (left mid) and having question marks over a 4th (CB). All of which seems madness. Injuries, loss of form or general tiredness all dictate adequate cover is needed. A good formation and plan requires each of the 11 positions are filled well within the first 11. Neither concern seems to be addressed and if that was hard to see over the summer (for which there is kind of a case) for it certainly should have been sorted in January.

 

 

 

[OJRovers]

Having no wingers does have a negative impact on the players that get stuck out there.

Kasey Palmer obviously has something about him, he’s flying at Bristol, but I think his potential was restricted by constantly being asked to do the job of a winger.

likewise Rothwell, Brereton, Armstrong, Samual (when fit). 

If we are going to carry on playing this formation we need to sign players who can play it.

[Mattyblue]

Good insight on the 2 year anniversary...

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17451074.coach-captain-and-pa-on-mowbrays-two-years-at-rovers/

The manager’s PA said how she has worked with 9 managers in 11 years. A throwaway comment that nicely sums up the Venky era.