Mowbray’s Future

[Paul Mellelieu]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

It was about time he was held to account for criticising people elsewhere online without them having a right to reply, in truth.

He said this on Twitter: 'but the moderating on the forum part of that site is basically done by a socially inept bunch of squabbling jackasses. Loathsome people.'  

Now, he's never met me, so I'm not sure how he's reached that conclusion. I'd be happy to meet him at the next home game and disprove his views with him though, as contrary to his view, I'm a sociable person! I don't think the moderating team ever really squabble and the loathsome part is just plain harsh.

I know a number of people on here personally and I doubt they'd regard me as being 'loathsome'. If they did, I suspect they'd not want to bother with me ever again! 

Yes, that's a bit low.  Understand.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

The only people who have the right to ask questions of any manager are the people who employ him and play his wages.  Manager's certainly don't have to justify decisions they make to supporters but our present one is very good at explaining what he does and why although he has no need to.  Supporters may offer a view on a manager but suggesting that they are accountable to complete strangers for decisions they make seems rather odd.  

Of course as paying customers do we "have the right" to question the manager. Thats essentially part of having an opinion which is the whole point of having a messageboard. Mowbray for all the good he has done is certainly not above questioning or criticism when it is warranted. Our defensive record this season and our record of throwing away leads is very poor and warrants criticism, and his very mixed recruitment is also very much open to debate, something you yourself have done when questioning Breretons signing. People have to realise that you can question and criticise whilst also being very appreciative of the work the manager has done so far. Signings such as Dack and Reed, getting the best from Graham and Evans and ultimately a promotion. Individual criticisms and appreciation can be mutually exclusive.

[tomphil]

Football managers are accountable to the paying supporters as well as their official employers as in some cases those paying supporters pay their wages although granted not so much the case in the top 2 divisions these days.

However if you don't have that support fans stop going and those that remain eventually turn and the situation is unworkable any longer so they have to go. Therefore by definition of course football managers are accountable to their clubs fans it's rather odd anyone would see it differently although there are exceptions if your name is Kean !!!

The more they are willing to explain some of the (odd) stuff they do the better for everyone it doesn't mean they have to alter anything despite opposite views from fans but it's on their back, live by the sword, die by it.

[The Axe]

When Bbrovers 2288 said that Mowbray had a lot of questions to answer surely he was speaking idiomatically. I don't think that one for moment that he thought that Mowbray ought to drop round and account to him. Therefore an answer that defined the legal position of employment appears to either miss the point or is deliberately provocative. 

[Crimpshrine]

3 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

The only people who have the right to ask questions of any manager are the people who employ him and play his wages.  Manager's certainly don't have to justify decisions they make to supporters but our present one is very good at explaining what he does and why although he has no need to.  Supporters may offer a view on a manager but suggesting that they are accountable to complete strangers for decisions they make seems rather odd.  

A very subservient view.

Not a lot of point in having 'an evening with Tony Mowbray' if you can't ask questions! 

Supporters are the lifeblood of any club. Managers are temporary employees.

 

[Rover_Shaun]

Supporters? Surely you mean customers? This is 2019 ?

Like the manger of Poundland he lives and dies by what customers think and act.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Rover_Shaun

[Oldgregg86]

The best way I can sum it up is if someone has offered to landscape your garden for free and turns up and starts. He's half way through and doing a good job but keeps walking dog shit through your kitchen. Do you leave him to it or say ever thought of taking your shoes off mate .

[Paul Mellelieu]

Strange no-one has picked up the LET piece I mentioned.

[blueboy3333]

4 hours ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

Strange no-one has picked up the LET piece I mentioned.

Probably cos you're being negative about our glorious leader. We heard you the 1st time anyway. Give it a rest for God's sake.....sorry I turned into you then for a minute. 

Anyway, the article you mention is very worrying. This is the bit you must be referring to:-

"I have a senior group within the players that we discuss what the best way of going about football is sometimes, and they wanted to play a deeper block, rather than playing so high up the pitch, particularly against a team who have (Lukas) Jutkiewicz up front and play a lot of long balls up to him. They were a bit afraid of being caught out by the ball being played over their heads.I believe our team is a high intensity, front foot football team that at its best can beat anyone.We changed our tactics and it worked and we almost won the game.”

He really should just stop talking. 

[Mercer]

13 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

The only people who have the right to ask questions of any manager are the people who employ him and play his wages.  Manager's certainly don't have to justify decisions they make to supporters but our present one is very good at explaining what he does and why although he has no need to.  Supporters may offer a view on a manager but suggesting that they are accountable to complete strangers for decisions they make seems rather odd.  

Absolute nonsense.

Without supporters there would simply be no club.

You ignore the supporters at your peril.  When fans turn on a manager, he's toast.

As for Mowbray's explanations, I personally find many of them to be baffling and contradictory.

After Kean and C o y l e, I think supporters have cut Mowbray a lot of slack and, IMV, he's one lucky man who at most gets a 5 out of 10 from me.

.

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

Probably cos you're being negative about our glorious leader. We heard you the 1st time anyway. Give it a rest for God's sake.....sorry I turned into you then for a minute. 

Anyway, the article you mention is very worrying. This is the bit you must be referring to:-

"I have a senior group within the players that we discuss what the best way of going about football is sometimes, and they wanted to play a deeper block, rather than playing so high up the pitch, particularly against a team who have (Lukas) Jutkiewicz up front and play a lot of long balls up to him. They were a bit afraid of being caught out by the ball being played over their heads.I believe our team is a high intensity, front foot football team that at its best can beat anyone.We changed our tactics and it worked and we almost won the game.”

He really should just stop talking. 

What’s wrong with that? 

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, Biz said:

What’s wrong with that? 

Maybe it’s an old fashioned way of thinking but put personally I thought it was a manager’s job to manage, not let players dictate. Not much point in Mowbray being in the touch line, much less holding his head in his hands when it’s going wrong.

If his way of working isn’t successful in achieving the owners objectives, the board replace him.

If he doesn’t know what needs to be done and/or cannot manage the players to deliver them he isn’t up to the task.

Do they also get to decide who starts?

[Mattyblue]

I totally get this ‘senior player responsibility’ idea of Mowbray’s. I.e. day to day at Brockhall you don’t need to be micro managed by TM, how the senior players can ‘run the dressing room’ and keep more junior players in line etc.

But letting the players decide the tactics? Risky approach, as it’s his head on the chopping block, not the players.

[blueboy3333]

7 hours ago, Biz said:

What’s wrong with that? 

Ask @Paul Mellelieu, he drew the boards attention to it and he's a very positive individual who loves Tony very much. 

However, as you've asked the question, I would suggest that Tony appears to be abdicating responsibility for match day tactics. Have you ever heard a football manager admit the players tell him what system to play? I can't say I have. 

Maybe the senior group have all got their coaching badges and are qualified to coach in the Championship? Maybe other managers in the league let the senior players dictate tactics? 

If Conway looks after the discipline, and the players do the coaching, it does beg the question what does Tony actually do when not enjoying biscuits?

[Parsonblue]

9 hours ago, Mercer said:

Absolute nonsense.

Without supporters there would simply be no club.

You ignore the supporters at your peril.  When fans turn on a manager, he's toast.

As for Mowbray's explanations, I personally find many of them to be baffling and contradictory.

After Kean and C o y l e, I think supporters have cut Mowbray a lot of slack and, IMV, he's one lucky man who at most gets a 5 out of 10 from me.

.

Fortunately, the owners have a different view and like many fans have faith in him, without being blind to his faults, but believe he is exactly the right man for this club at this point in our history.

[AllRoverAsia]

9 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Probably cos you're being negative about our glorious leader. We heard you the 1st time anyway. Give it a rest for God's sake.....sorry I turned into you then for a minute. 

Anyway, the article you mention is very worrying. This is the bit you must be referring to:-

"I have a senior group within the players that we discuss what the best way of going about football is sometimes, and they wanted to play a deeper block, rather than playing so high up the pitch, particularly against a team who have (Lukas) Jutkiewicz up front and play a lot of long balls up to him. They were a bit afraid of being caught out by the ball being played over their heads.I believe our team is a high intensity, front foot football team that at its best can beat anyone.We changed our tactics and it worked and we almost won the game.”

He really should just stop talking. 

Monday blames the players for deciding upon the tactics for the crap start and claims credit for the change. 

I really could not make that up. 

I try to read as little as possible of Mowbray's pressers but it hard to avoid at times. 

[AllRoverAsia]

6 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Ask @Paul Mellelieu, he drew the boards attention to it and he's a very positive individual who loves Tony very much. 

However, as you've asked the question, I would suggest that Tony appears to be abdicating responsibility for match day tactics. Have you ever heard a football manager admit the players tell him what system to play? I can't say I have. 

Maybe the senior group have all got their coaching badges and are qualified to coach in the Championship? Maybe other managers in the league let the senior players dictate tactics? 

If Conway looks after the discipline, and the players do the coaching, it does beg the question what does Tony actually do when not enjoying biscuits?

Be fair,  he watches videos when enjoying biscuits. 

[Oldgregg86]

I remember pep doing similar in that city documentary.

Pep said how dya wanna play lads and fabien Delph got the white board out why Brian Kidd fetched the hobb nobs

[Roverthechimp]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

I totally get this ‘senior player responsibility’ idea of Mowbray’s. I.e. day to day at Brockhall you don’t need to be micro managed by TM, how the senior players can ‘run the dressing room’ and keep more junior players in line etc.

But letting the players decide the tactics? Risky approach, as it’s his head on the chopping block, not the players.

Understand and agree to a point BUT if the players aren't 100% in agreement then nowadays you are finished.

Think Man Utd as the most public example. Tony is far from alone in letting senior players dictate with the proviso that "if it ain't working we go to my plan" but he is unique (and possibly a little foolish) in openly discussing it.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Roverthechimp said:

Tony is far from alone in letting senior players dictate with the proviso that "if it ain't working we go to my plan" but he is unique (and possibly a little foolish) in openly discussing it.

If he's the only one who has admitted to it how do you know other managers do it? 

[martonrover]

21 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Fortunately, the owners have a different view and like many fans have faith in him, without being blind to his faults, but believe he is exactly the right man for this club at this point in our history.

The owners wouldn't know the right man to manage a football club if their lives depended on it.

They got relatively lucky with this appointment and obviously buy the dream that Mowbray is selling them.

I'm not, but he has earned the chance to try & deliver it.

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Maybe it’s an old fashioned way of thinking but put personally I thought it was a manager’s job to manage, not let players dictate. Not much point in Mowbray being in the touch line, much less holding his head in his hands when it’s going wrong.

If his way of working isn’t successful in achieving the owners objectives, the board replace him.

If he doesn’t know what needs to be done and/or cannot manage the players to deliver them he isn’t up to the task.

Do they also get to decide who starts?

I don’t know think either of us can assume what the best way would be, whether it’s amiable like Mowbray, or more old fashioned and totalitarian. I think somewhere down the middle fits, and if that means allowing Graham/Mulgrew/Bennett et al to take some responsibility for organising too - I don’t see it as an issue. If anything, it seems a clever way of putting the expectations on the senior lads up because their pre match thoughts/ideas rely on their good work.

Theres loads about mindset and delegation in coaching/teaching theory and I think it’s more suitable than ever when even second tier players are earning millions.

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

I totally get this ‘senior player responsibility’ idea of Mowbray’s. I.e. day to day at Brockhall you don’t need to be micro managed by TM, how the senior players can ‘run the dressing room’ and keep more junior players in line etc.

But letting the players decide the tactics? Risky approach, as it’s his head on the chopping block, not the players.

Yea risky but so is banging their heads together, especially when recent premier league examples like Sarri/Mourinho show what player power can do to a decent team.

19 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Ask @Paul Mellelieu, he drew the boards attention to it and he's a very positive individual who loves Tony very much. 

However, as you've asked the question, I would suggest that Tony appears to be abdicating responsibility for match day tactics. Have you ever heard a football manager admit the players tell him what system to play? I can't say I have. 

Maybe the senior group have all got their coaching badges and are qualified to coach in the Championship? Maybe other managers in the league let the senior players dictate tactics? 

If Conway looks after the discipline, and the players do the coaching, it does beg the question what does Tony actually do when not enjoying biscuits?

There’s a huge difference between abdicating and delegating responsibility. None of the players will be sacked if we are relegated but Tony will - whether he lets the senior lads get involved in tactics or not.

Hence why he will still be ultimately responsible. I trust his view and his values, and if he thinks the best way to get this team performing above the sum of its parts is to use the Mulgrews and Graham’s advice on the pitch - so be it. Sounds like the type of modern thoughtful management we’ve missed for a long time

Since the “tangible” results in his two years are achieving the minimum expectation and more, it can’t be that broken can it!

9 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Monday blames the players for deciding upon the tactics for the crap start and claims credit for the change. 

I really could not make that up. 

I try to read as little as possible of Mowbray's pressers but it hard to avoid at times. 

No you did make it up. I don’t see how it’s attributing the blame in anyway, merely stating the outcome of play.

Too honest maybe, but nowhere near your summary.

[Mattyblue]

Difference between ‘banging heads together’ and letting players decide on tactics.

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

Difference between ‘banging heads together’ and letting players decide on tactics.

 

In a similarly sweeping comment, its incredibly naive to expect 11+ professionals turn up and perform duties/tactics and their role without any opinion or input. In any sport.

[tomphil]

50 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Ask @Paul Mellelieu, he drew the boards attention to it and he's a very positive individual who loves Tony very much. 

However, as you've asked the question, I would suggest that Tony appears to be abdicating responsibility for match day tactics. Have you ever heard a football manager admit the players tell him what system to play? I can't say I have. 

Maybe the senior group have all got their coaching badges and are qualified to coach in the Championship? Maybe other managers in the league let the senior players dictate tactics? 

If Conway looks after the discipline, and the players do the coaching, it does beg the question what does Tony actually do when not enjoying biscuits?

He better hope non of those players in charge have Steve Kean tendencies and connections otherwise, well......... ?️