Mowbray’s Future

[Mattyblue]

9 minutes ago, Biz said:

I never had you down as the type of poster to take a line out of context and continue to make the same laboured point.

To answer you; I never said it was cheap. To try and put it simply; I’m not convinced it’s as expensive as people are making out. I’m also not convinced alternatives mentioned would’ve been better investments without hindsight.

Now, unless you’ve anything to discuss on that - I’ll crack on with this wrapping.

Laboured point? You wrapping a black water heating appliance? 

You have repeatedly said 7 million isn’t a lot of money these days, so by default BB was worth a punt due to this ‘flex’. I (and many others) think it is and he wasn’t.

You keep saying daft things like it was ‘an exceptional summer of transfer business’ when the reality is slapping you in the face and when you get pulled up on it you post gifs of goalposts and say you are being selectively quoted or taken out of context!

[JBiz]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Laboured point? You wrapping a black water heating appliance? 

You have repeatedly said 7 million isn’t a lot of money these days, so by default BB was worth a punt due to this ‘flex’. I (and many others) think it is and he wasn’t.

You keep saying daft things like it was ‘an exceptional summer of transfer business’ when the reality is slapping you in the face and when you get pulled up on it you post gifs of goalposts and say you are being selectively quoted or taken out of context!

You just selectively quoted me in relation to how I felt when the August window closed! Precisely the point. Not relevant to now is it?

And the laugh was the first line by the way. You can continue to “Labor the point” if you wish though.

[Mattyblue]

In the spirit of the season I take that back then, as I read it as you STILL thought it was exceptional even as the new signings all spent months sat on the bench...

Edited December 24, 2018 by Mattyblue

[Crimpshrine]

8 hours ago, JHRover said:

I remain of the view that the best prospects of long term success are by installing a qualified, capable technical director or director of football who can oversee and orchestrate the football operation with a head coach operating alongside/beneath him. The D of F or whatever you want to call it would liaise with the owners and report to them and be given a budget and he would take overall responsibility working in tandem with his choice of manager.

I look at Leeds and Norwich steaming clear in this league and both are doing so with good head coaches who have come into this sort of system working under a footballing director with recruitment a joint effort. Bielsa has come along and fitted smoothly into the structure at Leeds which was set up before his arrival.

The way we operate is extremely old school with the manager having too much responsibility across too many areas. In this day and age the manager should be able to focus on training and matchdays with academy/recruitment going on elsewhere. It is ludicrous that the manager has to fly to India to get his instructions/budget.

There are odd exceptions these days like Warnock at Cardiff or Dyche at Burnley which were more traditional ways of doing things but I think in our circumstances with absentee foreign clueless owners we need a structure in place that ensures continuity and so managers can come and go without being utterly reliant upon them for the entire football operation. It seems Mowbray played a part in our CEO arriving which is also bonkers and quite alarming. 

I'm not for one minute slating Mowbray or saying he should be removed from his role but we're now in a position where we are heavily reliant on him for virtually every aspect of the operation - speaking to the owners, this 'trust' thing we have in place, recruitment, training, scouting. If we unfortunately reach a stage where Mowbray reaches the end of the line at the club then it will all have to be started again from scratch, which will probably take several years to achieve. We need to be able to change manager if required without losing all direction and having to start again from scratch. That's how Leeds have managed to get where they are - not through spending daft money or even being particularly well run - but having a structure above the manager that continues and into which the manager can fit.

 

This is exactly right. I don't see how Venky's don't understand this. No business will ever succeed without the correct infrastructure. Rovers need a proper board of directors who understand football, understand the club and understand the fans.

I can't imagine Venky's allowing their other business interests to be run with the same model used at Rovers.

Maybe they see themselves as Mowbray's supervisors and think they don't need any help. It's either that or they are not particularly bothered about future progression.

Still totally baffled by their intentions and actions after all this time.  Without changes behind the scenes Rovers will stagnate and slowly continue on a downward spiral.

[47er]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

Why do you constantly only focus on parts of the content you can’t understand? 

If you had even one micro gram of gravitas- you’d have worked out that whilst transfer fees can be paid in instalments;

Wages can’t.

As I’ve said again and again, and all the slight insults in the world from you won’t change it; Brereton would’ve been far cheaper than others I’ve linked, and listed.

The simple reason why? How does a team with a <10m revenue then start spending that on one player?

Just admit that this is the perfect excuse you’ve been waiting for? 18 months without much to complain about... cold turkey! Hah

 

I have not insulted you at all. Secondly, it doesn't matter how high or low his wages are relative to his transfer fee IF HE"S NO BLOODY GOOD! 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, 47er said:

I have not insulted you at all. Secondly, it doesn't matter how high or low his wages are relative to his transfer fee IF HE"S NO BLOODY GOOD! 

 

Hasn't started a game. Do you not think that plays a factor? 

[JBiz]

4 minutes ago, 47er said:

I have not insulted you at all. Secondly, it doesn't matter how high or low his wages are relative to his transfer fee IF HE"S NO BLOODY GOOD! 

 

The point is you are judging him now.

I will continue to remind you he’s a 19 year old lad, who has yet to start.

 

[47er]

1 minute ago, Biz said:

The point is you are judging him now.

I will continue to remind you he’s a 19 year old lad, who has yet to start.

 

I KNOW YOU WILL!   ?

[Tom Stinny]

How much do people think we've spent/committed to this summer just gone? Around the 12m in transfer fees rising to 15-16m for wages and add ons? If thats the case the recruitment has been piss poor.

 

Pukki (Sign on fee + wages)

Celina (4m + wages)

McKay (700k + wages)

Barnes (Loan + wages)

Marriott (4m + high wages I think)

Norwood (2m + wages)

Edwards (800k + wages)

Douglas (3.5m + wages)

Leitner (1.5m + wages)

Elphick (Loan + wages)

Batth (Loan + Wages)

 

That's to name a few. Now I'm not saying we would get them but have teams like Norwich, Swansea, Derby and the likes been mega successful recently? Have they won cups recently?

 

No. I understand they get larger crowds and have been in the league longer but bloody Norwich were closer to going down last year than up. Swansea got relegated and derby blow every chance they get in the play-offs.

 

You could easily pick 5-6 from that list who would ALL play week in week out land cost around the same as what we've committed to in the short term and maybe 2m-3m more long term.

 

Pukki, Barnes, McKay, Batth, Edwards and Norwood would have had us near top 6 or in it without a doubt.

 

Line up of

 

Raya

Nyambe Batth Mulgrew Bell

Norwood Evans

Barnes Dack McKay

Graham/Pukki

 

Subs

 

Leutwiler, Lenihan, Williams, Travis, Bennet, Edwards, Pukki/Graham 

 

There's probably a few decent centre backs around two for relatively cheap. Then padded rest of the 24 man squad with youth players. 

 

It's been quantity over quality type signings this summer with not a lot getting into the team. Also don't think one signing under Mowbray has NOT been British.

[Stuart]

5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Hasn't started a game. Do you not think that plays a factor? 

Which suggests Mowbray doesn’t rate him either.

I’d like to see him start up front against Newcastle in the FA Cup. If Mowbray can’t trust him to do that - or change the tactics to accommodate Brereton playing as a striker then he needs dropping from the squad for a few weeks. Either with Nuttall promoted to the bench or out on loan to make room.

[Stuart]

2 minutes ago, Tom Stinny said:

How much do people think we've spent/committed to this summer just gone? Around the 12m in transfer fees rising to 15-16m for wages and add ons? If thats the case the recruitment has been piss poor.

 

Pukki (Sign on fee + wages)

Celina (4m + wages)

McKay (700k + wages)

Barnes (Loan + wages)

Marriott (4m + high wages I think)

Norwood (2m + wages)

Edwards (800k + wages)

Douglas (3.5m + wages)

Leitner (1.5m + wages)

Elphick (Loan + wages)

Batth (Loan + Wages)

 

That's to name a few. Now I'm not saying we would get them but have teams like Norwich, Swansea, Derby and the likes been mega successful recently? Have they won cups recently?

 

No. I understand they get larger crowds and have been in the league longer but bloody Norwich were closer to going down last year than up. Swansea got relegated and derby blow every chance they get in the play-offs.

 

You could easily pick 5-6 from that list who would ALL play week in week out land cost around the same as what we've committed to in the short term and maybe 2m-3m more long term.

 

Pukki, Barnes, McKay, Batth, Edwards and Norwood would have had us near top 6 or in it without a doubt.

 

Line up of

 

Raya

Nyambe Batth Mulgrew Bell

Norwood Evans

Barnes Dack McKay

Graham/Pukki

 

Subs

 

Leutwiler, Lenihan, Williams, Travis, Bennet, Edwards, Pukki/Graham 

 

There's probably a few decent centre backs around two for relatively cheap. Then padded rest of the 24 man squad with youth players. 

 

It's been quantity over quality type signings this summer with not a lot getting into the team. Also don't think one signing under Mowbray has NOT been British.

You make some good points but the answer - as always - is money.

Which I why I hate to see us waste a huge sum on another square page for a formation of round holes.

And is why I also hate Venkys. They have loads of money and have blown it on the wrong things yet the club is being run like a pauper’s church. Having to increase ticket prices and double our cheapest offers because we need the revenue.

[jim mk2]

15 minutes ago, Tom Stinny said:

 Also don't think one signing under Mowbray has NOT been British.

 Another Mowbray failing - his contacts book. 

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, jim mk2 said:

 Another Mowbray failing - his contacts book. 

Very true.

However, the recruitment dept. is now running on 'full fuel' apparently so there are 'no more excuses'. 

 

[G Somerset Rover]

1 minute ago, blueboy3333 said:

Very true.

However, the recruitment dept. is now running on 'full fuel' apparently so there are 'no more excuses'. 

 

Cue our only January signing being some lummax from the ‘famed’ Cov 15-16 side.

Edited December 24, 2018 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

Very true.

However, the recruitment dept. is now running on 'full fuel' apparently so there are 'no more excuses'. 

What Mowbray (and others) don’t seem to appreciate is that all this does is raise expectations. If those expectations aren’t met then it leads to criticism and disappointment.

On the back of those comments I’m expecting no more ‘potential’ signings this season but players that can deliver on the pitch. Immediately. Players who are going to go straight into the starting XI. Displacing/replacing Smallwood, Conway/Palmer; players pressing Nyambe, Bell, Lenihan; taking the pressure off Graham, Mulgrew.

Of course we won’t bring in 7 players but there need to be an uplifting/upgrading effect, with Evans, Nyambe, and Bell becoming amongst the “worst” in a “better squad”.

[blueboy3333]

8 minutes ago, Stuart said:

What Mowbray (and others) don’t seem to appreciate is that all this does is raise expectations. If those expectations aren’t met then it leads to criticism and disappointment.

On the back of those comments I’m expecting no more ‘potential’ signings this season but players that can deliver on the pitch. Immediately. Players who are going to go straight into the starting XI. Displacing/replacing Smallwood, Conway/Palmer; players pressing Nyambe, Bell, Lenihan; taking the pressure off Graham, Mulgrew.

Of course we won’t bring in 7 players but there need to be an uplifting/upgrading effect, with Evans, Nyambe, and Bell becoming amongst the “worst” in a “better squad”.

Agreed. The emphasis needs to be on 1st team players who can contribute now, I find it incredible we've spent £7m on a lad that the manger admits isn't good enough.

[tomphil]

I'm sure Mowbray and co knew spending 7 million on this kid would raise expectation and i'm sure they knew eyebrows would get raised and debate would rage on if he didn't hit the ground running or get used much.  The mans been in football management long enough he knows darn well how it all works but if there isn't any pressure on him from above to show us what the fee and fuss about this player is all about he'll continue to handle him the way he is and not worry about it.

I'm also sure though that they expected to see a little bit more than what they have from him in his cameos..........

Edited December 24, 2018 by tomphil

[roversfan99]

Found these comments interesting:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17318168.brereton-not-suffering-from-confidence-dip-says-mowbray/

"Danny is an important player for our team,” Mowbray said.

“We’re not a possession based, keep the ball, 50 passes team.  We know how we play, we try and play in the opposition half as much as we can.

“Danny is a big part of that.”

Mowbray has preached about changing to a more aesthetically pleasing passing style numerous times. That quote suggests that the direct, unimaginative and often ineffective style that we currently adopt is not going to change any time soon. 

I dont think there is a right way or a wrong way of playing but I do think that the current way is predictable and it perhaps highlights the deficiencies of our summer recruitment that most of his signings are kicking their heels on the sidelines whilst the adaptation to a style of play Mowbray clearly wants is put on hold.

Edited December 24, 2018 by roversfan99

[Mattyblue]

Bit of a Graham or bust strategy that...

[Stuart]

He hasn’t covered himself in much glory in the last few weeks. Maybe he’s feeling the pressure

I agree with Matty though. There is nobody else who is capable of doing the job that Graham does.

[roverandout]

At some point mowbary will go the same way as bowyer...taken the club as far as he can. Plenty of clubs have taken that road

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 hours ago, Tom Stinny said:

How much do people think we've spent/committed to this summer just gone? Around the 12m in transfer fees rising to 15-16m for wages and add ons? If thats the case the recruitment has been piss poor.

 

Pukki (Sign on fee + wages)

Celina (4m + wages)

McKay (700k + wages)

Barnes (Loan + wages)

Marriott (4m + high wages I think)

Norwood (2m + wages)

Edwards (800k + wages)

Douglas (3.5m + wages)

Leitner (1.5m + wages)

Elphick (Loan + wages)

Batth (Loan + Wages)

 

That's to name a few. Now I'm not saying we would get them but have teams like Norwich, Swansea, Derby and the likes been mega successful recently? Have they won cups recently?

 

No. I understand they get larger crowds and have been in the league longer but bloody Norwich were closer to going down last year than up. Swansea got relegated and derby blow every chance they get in the play-offs.

 

You could easily pick 5-6 from that list who would ALL play week in week out land cost around the same as what we've committed to in the short term and maybe 2m-3m more long term.

 

Pukki, Barnes, McKay, Batth, Edwards and Norwood would have had us near top 6 or in it without a doubt.

 

Line up of

 

Raya

Nyambe Batth Mulgrew Bell

Norwood Evans

Barnes Dack McKay

Graham/Pukki

 

Subs

 

Leutwiler, Lenihan, Williams, Travis, Bennet, Edwards, Pukki/Graham 

 

There's probably a few decent centre backs around two for relatively cheap. Then padded rest of the 24 man squad with youth players. 

 

It's been quantity over quality type signings this summer with not a lot getting into the team. Also don't think one signing under Mowbray has NOT been British.

Maupay is one you've missed out.

[jim mk2]

32 minutes ago, roverandout said:

At some point mowbary will go the same way as bowyer...taken the club as far as he can.

I feel we've reached that point now. The team has not improved or evolved since the end of last season. 

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Found these comments interesting:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17318168.brereton-not-suffering-from-confidence-dip-says-mowbray/

 

I enjoyed the article overall, great to hear TM say he has “no fear” over Brereton stepping up but also mentions the necessity to have more impact.

Always comes across well for me. Never blames players publicly, is passionate about our scenario and talks sense. Graham and Dack are truly our linchpins at the minute, and the onus is on others in the squad to dislodge through a cameo, or replace if the opportunity comes up.

[JBiz]

38 minutes ago, roverandout said:

At some point mowbary will go the same way as bowyer...taken the club as far as he can. Plenty of clubs have taken that road

Changing him went well, didn’t it! 

Ideally, I’d like a more consistent approach personally - even if we are at this level for a couple of years.