Mowbray: Stay or go?

[cesus]

I suppose when times fall very grim (now!) you start to look back and pick holes in the considered "successful" past of a managers record. Was last season as good as it could have been? We didn't completely take the league by storm with the biggest financial clout and certainly didn't destroy every team in our way. A lot of last season was mirrored by actually winning games against some awful competition and a magnificent social media campaign that had fans feeling we had our club back. This run doesn't look like ending because we keep trying the same things that don't work, you just don't feel like the manager feels any pressure due to distant owners and his mate being the Chief Exec.

 

[Paul Mani]

Nothing has changed for me. He’s been loyal to the team who got us promoted. This seasons target was to get to safety as quickly as possible and then see how far we can go. The back end of the season has been disappointing but I fully expected us to finish between 10th - 15th before the season started and we’ll finish there or thereabouts.

For half of the season his decision was very much vindicated. The second half of the season has shown to Tony and the world that In order to consolidate and move forwards we need to address that our defenders are not tough enough, our midfielders not creative enough and our forwards not clinical enough. 

He HAS to be prepared to upset and ultimately replace the Mulgrews, Bennets, Graham’s, Smallwoods and even Dacks of this group. So he has the summer to bring in first team regulars and if not then he is not the man for the job.

The Stoke game basically encapsulated our current position in 90 mins. The team worked hard and had long periods of possession. But ultimately we were let down by an inability to defend properly at one end and a lack of quality in the final third where we are not clinical enough.

The summer is key. Mowbray deserves the summer to get this right. Do or die..

[philipl]

Mowbray has set his own target.

Get us to 60 points and he can stay.

Another misjudgement like team and tactics v Stoke and that is it for me.

[arbitro]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Nothing has changed for me. He’s been loyal to the team who got us promoted. This seasons target was to get to safety as quickly as possible and then see how far we can go. The back end of the season has been disappointing but I fully expected us to finish between 10th - 15th before the season started and we’ll finish there or thereabouts.

For half of the season his decision was very much vindicated. The second half of the season has shown to Tony and the world that In order to consolidate and move forwards we need to address that our defenders are not tough enough, our midfielders not creative enough and our forwards not clinical enough. 

He HAS to be prepared to upset and ultimately replace the Mulgrews, Bennets, Graham’s, Smallwoods and even Dacks of this group. So he has the summer to bring in first team regulars and if not then he is not the man for the job.

The Stoke game basically encapsulated our current position in 90 mins. The team worked hard and had long periods of possession. But ultimately we were let down by an inability to defend properly at one end and a lack of quality in the final third where we are not clinical enough.

The summer is key. Mowbray deserves the summer to get this right. Do or die..

The highlighted sentence is what is really concerning me. We are stuck with the players you mention (and others) who Mowbray naively gave new, improved contracts to and Dack aside none of them have any saleable value and are unlikely to earn what we are paying them elsewhere. I think we need up to eight new players which will give us a bloated squad with potentially a huge wage bill. The knock on effect will be that no youngsters will get near the first team. I can see some of his old guard being paid off.

Overriding that though I simply don't trust Mowbray to pretty much build a new team. His record in the transfer market is poor, borne out by so many regular starters since he came were already here. And he has spent around £10m.

He has to go for me now. 

[sharpysharps86]

I suppose the thing that concerns me the most is the stubbornness over changing things up. The fact is we can't be doing any worse than we already are... Bottom of the form table based on the last 10 games or so, so why stick with what we all know isn't working anymore.

All players have the ceiling heights and a huge part of being a great manager is to have the know-how to reinvent things when it all goes stale. Bennett is one of my favourite players in the last couple of years but I also can't deny he doesn't deserve a starting place anymore.

My concern is how deep TM's loyalties go...because if it means Evans and Snallwood in the middle next year, then we are getting relegated.

[blueboy3333]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Nothing has changed for me. He’s been loyal to the team who got us promoted. This seasons target was to get to safety as quickly as possible and then see how far we can go. The back end of the season has been disappointing but I fully expected us to finish between 10th - 15th before the season started and we’ll finish there or thereabouts.

For half of the season his decision was very much vindicated. The second half of the season has shown to Tony and the world that In order to consolidate and move forwards we need to address that our defenders are not tough enough, our midfielders not creative enough and our forwards not clinical enough. 

He HAS to be prepared to upset and ultimately replace the Mulgrews, Bennets, Graham’s, Smallwoods and even Dacks of this group. So he has the summer to bring in first team regulars and if not then he is not the man for the job.

The Stoke game basically encapsulated our current position in 90 mins. The team worked hard and had long periods of possession. But ultimately we were let down by an inability to defend properly at one end and a lack of quality in the final third where we are not clinical enough.

The summer is key. Mowbray deserves the summer to get this right. Do or die..

I think most people would agree with nearly all of that. The sticking point is  whether he 'deserves' the summer. The rate of decline has been alarming since November (there was a brief resurgence in Jan) and 9 defeats out the last 11 is sacking territory at a normal club. The coaching at the club is very poor IMO - the lack of movement and ideas as an attacking unit and the appalling defending aren't all down to individuals. And if they are does anyone really have any faith in Mowbray's recruitment to put it right? Nah, me neither.

Mowbray is lucky. His narrative has been swallowed whole  - 'I've been loyal because I've got values but I'll make big changes in the summer cos I know what I'm doing and hey presto we'll be challenging for the play-offs next season'. 

I don't believe a word of it but it buys him time, which is exactly his aim. In the meantime he'll blame everyone but himself as we lose every week. It's amazing people fall for it. You've got to hand it to him really. 

[blueboy3333]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17556252.blackburn-rovers-0-stoke-city-1-match-verdict/

Even Sharpes had enough. 

[bob fleming]

23 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

 (there was a brief resurgence in Jan)

Quite. And that’s what makes this run even worse. 3 0 against Hull, the best football played in years. For the wheels to come off as they have. It’s just not good enough. Apathy indeed.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

20 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17556252.blackburn-rovers-0-stoke-city-1-match-verdict/

Even Sharpes had enough. 

Very damning report there.

[AJW]

Stay ... Admittedly I am a supporter of Mowbray but yesterday I did feel myself questioning his line up , his tactics and his substitutions, for me some difficult decisions have to be made over the summer , players who 

1) have been good for but sadly are coming to the end of their to end of their career with us 

2) just aren't good enough for this or the next level we want to go to

3) he's just shown loyalty to

new blood is needed not a new manager 

[arbitro]

17 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17556252.blackburn-rovers-0-stoke-city-1-match-verdict/

Even Sharpes had enough. 

And his analysis is good. For too long our play has been predictable and far to easy to play against. To many of our players need a few touches before they have decided on their next pass which invariably is square or backwards. They got away with it in League One but now against better players they are found wanting. We have regressed this season primarily down to Mowbrays loyalty stance for which we will be paying for a long time. His stubbornness is holding us back and I can't honestly see us progressing with him here. The old adage of 'taking the club as far as he can' has never applied more.

[Stuart]

21 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17556252.blackburn-rovers-0-stoke-city-1-match-verdict/

Even Sharpes had enough. 

It’s a good point about Raya’s penalty save feeling like a turning point. It did. And yet, apart from a load of huffing and puffing, it wasn’t.

Apathy is so prevalent in the stands and that’s the bigger worry: “Stay, go, we don’t care either way” and it is permeating onto the pitch.

Ultimate, this club needs a change of owner. A new board and a change in regime. On paper Venkys are covering losses and supporting a Cat 1 Academy. In reality the losses are, and continue to be, their own making and the academy isn’t being used - Mowbray made no secret early on in his tenure that he doesn’t value the development squad and just wants the money for the first team (people seem to have forgotten this).

If we aren’t going to get a change of owner then we need a manager who can get results operating in this environment, not just one who is a likeable front for them. Mowbray helps make Venkys lives easier.

[benhben]

Just now, AJW said:

new blood is needed not a new manager 

He has had numerous transfer windows and spent over £10m. Due to spending badly the team hasn't  changed. 

Theres also a bunch young exciting players coming through but the team he picked against stoke sums him up. 

Needs to go along with the coaching staff. 

[philipl]

Whatever your position on the wisdom or lack of it in perservering with Mowbray, yesterday was as big a catatonic managerial fail as any Rovers has served up.

A saving grace compared with Kean and a very substantial one at that is I know how dangerously corrupt one was and Mowbray is honest and decent which makes this all the more painful to write.

1) Dack was bang out of order yesterday irrespective of his squeeze leaving but when something like this happens you have to look at the management and ask if the player could have been better managed. Compared with the wild boys of the past, Dack comes over as lovable naughty boy. He is a pratt but then so are probably half of all professional footballers and they don't all drive out of the ground to God knows where 30 minutes before kick-off.

2) Bennett in the slot when we have two players crying out to be played in their natural position-  Rothwell and Armstrong.  MORON 

3) When Mulgrew went off there was the opportunity to reunite our most successful central partnership but we got Williams instead of Rodwell.

4) We had a 17,000+ crowd on including the club's future support base so we got the stultifying Evans and Smallwood which would kill any and every attack.

 

I am not bemoaning transfer policy or asking for millions we haven't got. I am not saying Dack should have played. 

But had we started with travis, Reed and Conway and pushed Rothwell into the slot behind Graham then brought Rodwell and Chapman on as subs ww would at least have been properly entertained and not driven to distraction by mindless football going nowhere. 

We might even have won because Stoke were there for taking apart especially with the gift of their injuries.

Just use the squad we have in the right way- they were plenty good enough to get to 60 points this season.

 

Until Mowbray utterly screwed up yesterday.

60 points or else...

 

 

[47er]

Just now, benhben said:

He has had numerous transfer windows and spent over £10m. Due to spending badly the team hasn't  changed. 

Theres also a bunch young exciting players coming through but the team he picked against stoke sums him up. 

Needs to go along with the coaching staff. 

That really is unanswerable.

There really is no point giving him another transfer window based on how he's done before.

I voted to give him till summer and then reassess but that was before we achieved 1 win in 12 games and ten losses. I wasn't expecting to see the season drag to an end in such a humiliating fashion. I wasn't expecting to be looking over our shoulders at the bottom three and praying they don't somehow catch up.

I have no faith he can turn things round next season for the reasons benhben has given.

[RoversClitheroe]

Any other manager on the form we are in would be sacked by now. Why hasn't Mowbray? He's too safe in his job purely because of an extremely easy promotion.

[Paul Mani]

49 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I think most people would agree with nearly all of that. The sticking point is  whether he 'deserves' the summer. The rate of decline has been alarming since November (there was a brief resurgence in Jan) and 9 defeats out the last 11 is sacking territory at a normal club. The coaching at the club is very poor IMO - the lack of movement and ideas as an attacking unit and the appalling defending aren't all down to individuals. And if they are does anyone really have any faith in Mowbray's recruitment to put it right? Nah, me neither.

Mowbray is lucky. His narrative has been swallowed whole  - 'I've been loyal because I've got values but I'll make big changes in the summer cos I know what I'm doing and hey presto we'll be challenging for the play-offs next season'. 

I don't believe a word of it but it buys him time, which is exactly his aim. In the meantime he'll blame everyone but himself as we lose every week. It's amazing people fall for it. You've got to hand it to him really. 

Yes of course. This is all about opinions. The rate of decline has been alarming, I would agree. I would also be critical of some of his signings and in hindsight, his decision to remain loyal to that league 1 team.

BUT I disagree with the idea that people are swallowing his narrative, essentially being duped by him. Everyone I have spoken to has unanimously confirmed his decent nature and integrity. He’s also widely regarded as a very good coach as is Venus. Moreover, people are very quick to forget the positive impact that Tony has had on our club following Coyle, Lambert, Kean etc. 

For me there is one massive decision which is haunting him now and that was to stick with the lads he had. It shaped his summer business last year when we bought almost entirely for the future. With hindsight, had the reported £10m been spent on maybe three championship class players (CB, CM, CF) I do not think we would’ve had the decline we’ve seen...but hindsight is a fine thing.

Ive seen a lot of people on here dismissing the notion that he’ll make changes this summer. I understand that because history tells us that Tony hasn’t done that at Rovers. But, I do not see what he has to gain by staying loyal to them this summer. He’s been loyal and the players have been found out. He’s admitted that publicly. So to mindlessly plough on then he’s risking his own job and reputation for players who he owes absolutely nothing to. To stick with the same team and start next season would be managerial suicide.

For all of the above, he has my backing this summer to rectify the problems he himself has publicly highlighted. I don’t think we’re a million miles away from a team that could compete at the top end of the table. Most games we have been well in only to be let down by soft defending or a lack of cutting edge. Those games (like the last four 1-0 defeats at home) are won or lost in those moments. With the right quality at both ends you often win those games. Added to that another year of development in the likes of Lenihan, Nyambe, Travis, Armstrong and Brereton etc, I just want some consistency.

 

[AllRoverAsia]

Fucking double posts are doing my head in and I don't think it's the posters fault

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

He’s also widely regarded as a very good coach as is Venus.

Anyone can say that. Unless you can name names that's not even worth a mention. I've never seen is written anywhere they are very good coaches. 

The proof is in the pudding and what they serve up is actually tripe.  For such a dream team they also tend to go on long winless runs like they are doing here and they did in their last job. 

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Ive seen a lot of people on here dismissing the notion that he’ll make changes this summer.

I'm not saying he won't make changes, I'm saying his transfer record is shit and he wont make the RIGHT changes. 

Just now, Paul Mani said:

For all of the above, he has my backing this summer to rectify the problems he himself has publicly highlighted. I don’t think we’re a million miles away from a team that could compete at the top end of the table.

Problems created by himself that he can't find the answers to. I think we're a million miles from a team that could compete at the top end of the table with Mowbray in charge. With a good manager, and 4 or 5 good Championship-quality players in key positions we could make an attempt on the play-offs. That won't happen with Mowbray and Venus here. They are utterly clueless. 

[Mattyblue]

This ‘hindsight’ thing again.

It was said on ‘negative brfcs’ repeatedly that the summer spending had the wrong priorities.

Again in January it was repeatedly pointed out that the squad, especially at the back, needed strengthening. 

The fact Mowbray took a different path was down to his own rank bad management, hindsight doesn’t come into it.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Mattyblue

[Paul Mani]

Just now, RoversClitheroe said:

Any other manager on the form we are in would be sacked by now. Why hasn't Mowbray? He's too safe in his job purely because of an extremely easy promotion.

It’s not that simple. There’s an endless amount of teams who are relegated and don’t ever get back up in spite of having ‘better’ players and bigger budgets. 

Managers don’t just get sacked because of the teams form. There’s a whole host of reasons why. Not meeting the season goal, falling out of favour with the directors, losing the fans etc are just some. Imo Tony hasn’t ticked any of those boxes yet. 

Its a sad indictment on football that some fans are so blood thirsty. 

[Paul Mani]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Anyone can say that. Unless you can name names that's not even worth a mention. I've never seen is written anywhere they are very good coaches. 

The proof is in the pudding and what they serve up is actually tripe.  For such a dream team they also tend to go on long winless runs like they are doing here and they did in their last job. 

I'm not saying he won't make changes, I'm saying his transfer record is shit and he wont make the RIGHT changes. 

Problems created by himself that he can't find the answers to. I think we're a million miles from a team that could compete at the top end of the table with Mowbray in charge. With a good manager, and 4 or 5 good Championship-quality players in key positions we could make an attempt on the play-offs. That won't happen with Mowbray and Venus here. They are utterly clueless. 

Agree to disagree

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

So much work to be done this Summer..we are not far off a total team rebuild if we are to move forward imo,far too many players not up to standard at this level.

Has Mowbray the nous to pick good enough players? Will Venkys back him with hard coin even though they are losing money hand over fist?

There is a lot of uncertainty and worry coming to the fore again,nothing about our situation feels good atm.

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

This ‘hindsight’ thing again.

It was said on ‘negative brfcs’ repeatedly that the summer spending had the wrong priorities.

Again in January it was repeatedly pointed out that the squad, especially at the back, needed strengthening. 

The fact Mowbray took a different path was his own rank bad management, hindsight doesn’t come into it.

There are a million different angles painted on these forums. Some come true, others do not. I’m not sure what your opinions were back in the summer but up until Christmas you pretty much had egg on your face and you were unlikely to be bouncing around reminding everyone of it. It’s easy to start crowing once your particular opinion comes true. In actual fact, none of us have the football knowledge or first hand experience with those players to have made the right decision.

So you guessed what might happen and it seems to have come true! Well done ??

[Paul Mani]

Just now, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

So much work to be done this Summer..we are not far off a total team rebuild if we are to move forward imo,far too many players not up to standard at this level.

Has Mowbray the nous to pick good enough players? Will Venkys back him with hard coin even though they are losing money hand over fist?

There is a lot of uncertainty and worry coming to the fore again,nothing about our situation feels good atm.

 

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