Mowbray: Stay or go?

[SBlue]

Just now, Pedro said:

We should be in those play off places, I honestly believe that. 

As do the fans of every club between us and sixth place.

And if it is true that we should be - then what an absolutely UNBELIEVABLE achievement by the manager.

Edited April 20, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[Stuart]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

As do the fans of every club between us and sixth place.

And if it is true that we should be - then what an absolutely UNBELIEVABLE achievement by the manager.

Define “achievement”?

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Stuart said:

Define “achievement”?

You admitting you were wrong would represent a significant one...??

[Stuart]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

You admitting you were wrong would represent a significant one...??

Wrong about what, Mani?

Still waiting...

[SBlue]

Just now, Stuart said:

Define “achievement”?

Taking us from the dropping shit stone we were under Coyle and developing us as a squad and side that “should be in the playoffs”?

Surely you follow me?

[JBiz]

On 18/04/2019 at 23:38, Stuart said:

Ah, the old ‘negative fans’ shout out.

How is wanting Mowbray to play Rothwell, Reed and Travis seen to be negative? Especially with evidence of it working.

Equally, how can playing Smallwood, Evans and Bennett (out of position and out of form) be seen as positive? With evidence of it failing.

”Fortunately he will get a chance” - a chance to do what? Based on his latest comments, he wants a better, more consistent player than Reed. How exactly is he going to achieve that? Particularly when he believes Evans and Smallwood are our best midfielders. More in their mould?

Some people are in love with this romanticised, poor-man’s Bobby Robson that they have fashioned in their minds and are ignoring the warning signs that he has run out of ideas and is losing the respect of his players. Time and time again, he has persisted with, praised, and rewarded his favoured “experienced” negative-footballing players while regularly digging out, criticising and dropping talented, young, positive players. Again, who is the negative one?

Unless Tony wakes up things are going to turn very sour. Unless we upgrade on the first eleven - let alone replace those departing the squad - we could be in for another relegation battle next season.

First paragraph - mentioned three who you want to play, who don’t play, I see it as finding/developing players that are turning into quality players through our system.

Rothwell particularly - I’m sure I don’t have to point out the irony in “look, I told you he’d do well if he played regularly” when it’s the manager who has worked the particular player into the system in training, and the team reaped the rewards. Many will openly criticise the BB 7m disaster, but I don’t see anyone here praising Joe R’s signing adding way more than that cost into the first team for zip!

Smallwood, Bennett, Evans, Conway - castigated for their inclusion at times, but a more reasonable commentary would be the senior players have played there part this season. Most fans know the dangers of changing things too rapidly, yet many here would sell/release 5/6 players without even blinking. I think some individual things could’ve been done differently, Elliott Bennett at number 10 would’ve never happened for me either, but in a season with 1000’s of individual decisions like that, we’ve got far more correct. (Despite TM ruining Bobby Moores career in a different life)

On squad building - there’s an assumption it’s a simple task too - the way you particularly compared DJ’s squad assembly for the PL2 with TM’s for the championship shows how little you seemingly understand the competition for the better players in the top few tiers of football, and the huge jump between cost from second to top tier.

For all the “warning signs” being ignored, I could point out good signs across the board, in the first team, overall squad, attitude and application at ALL levels, potential within the group, the u23s, recruitment, expectation et al.

You think it will turn sour, and I’m not denying that possibility, but I think you and others need to start embracing the positive steps the club has taken in 25 months of the current manager’s stewardship.

If TM walked tomorrow, the club he inherited is a completely different to the one he’d leave!

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Stuart said:

Wrong about what, Mani?

Still waiting...

Wrong about your emotionally charged ramblings towards our manager? A guy who has done his job very well overall and deserved your loyalty? 

Just that for now ?

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Biz said:

First paragraph - mentioned three who you want to play, who don’t play, I see it as finding/developing players that are turning into quality players through our system.

Rothwell particularly - I’m sure I don’t have to point out the irony in “look, I told you he’d do well if he played regularly” when it’s the manager who has worked the particular player into the system in training, and the team reaped the rewards. Many will openly criticise the BB 7m disaster, but I don’t see anyone here praising Joe R’s signing adding way more than that cost into the first team for zip!

Smallwood, Bennett, Evans, Conway - castigated for their inclusion at times, but a more reasonable commentary would be the senior players have played there part this season. Most fans know the dangers of changing things too rapidly, yet many here would sell/release 5/6 players without even blinking. I think some individual things could’ve been done differently, Elliott Bennett at number 10 would’ve never happened for me either, but in a season with 1000’s of individual decisions like that, we’ve got far more correct. (Despite TM ruining Bobby Moores career in a different life)

On squad building - there’s an assumption it’s a simple task too - the way you particularly compared DJ’s squad assembly for the PL2 with TM’s for the championship shows how little you seemingly understand the competition for the better players in the top few tiers of football, and the huge jump between cost from second to top tier.

For all the “warning signs” being ignored, I could point out good signs across the board, in the first team, overall squad, attitude and application at ALL levels, potential within the group, the u23s, recruitment, expectation et al.

You think it will turn sour, and I’m not denying that possibility, but I think you and others need to start embracing the positive steps the club has taken in 25 months of the current manager’s stewardship.

If TM walked tomorrow, the club he inherited is a completely different to the one he’d leave!

This is one of the best posts I have ever read on here. Thanks for sharing mate. 

For the record, I don’t think TM is perfect either. He frustrates me at times and I still maintain that this summer is the defining one of his term. BUT, bloody hell he’s done a great job. We’re in so much better nick on and off the pitch now. 

[Pedro]

16 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Eh!? Bowyer had Hanley, Duffy, Ollsen, Cairney, Marshall, King, Gestede, Rhodes etc....he MASSIVELY underachieved with a squad that were the envy of the whole league! 

Mowbray doesn’t have that. The end.

 

Hmmm. I think I was one of the few that pointed that out at the time when many talked that squad down. 

 

Also, you was his biggest defender on here when I criticised him for lacking bollocks and going for it.

 

The end.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Pedro

[Stuart]

8 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Taking us from the dropping shit stone we were under Coyle and developing us as a squad and side that “should be in the playoffs”?

Surely you follow me?

He can’t be lauded for getting a team that “should” be in the play-offs by not doing. That’s the definition of under-achieving.

Saying that, I’m not sure I agree that this squad should be in the play-offs. It could have but my beef is that in January he refused to try.

[Stuart]

1 minute ago, Paul Mani said:

Wrong about your emotionally charged ramblings towards our manager? A guy who has done his job very well overall and deserved your loyalty? 

Just that for now ?

I have a view that I’ve backed up with facts and examples. You are the one who relies on emotion for your views.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

This is one of the best posts I have ever read on here. Thanks for sharing mate. 

 

[Stuart]

6 minutes ago, Biz said:

First paragraph - mentioned three who you want to play, who don’t play, I see it as finding/developing players that are turning into quality players through our system.

Rothwell particularly - I’m sure I don’t have to point out the irony in “look, I told you he’d do well if he played regularly” when it’s the manager who has worked the particular player into the system in training, and the team reaped the rewards. Many will openly criticise the BB 7m disaster, but I don’t see anyone here praising Joe R’s signing adding way more than that cost into the first team for zip!

Smallwood, Bennett, Evans, Conway - castigated for their inclusion at times, but a more reasonable commentary would be the senior players have played there part this season. Most fans know the dangers of changing things too rapidly, yet many here would sell/release 5/6 players without even blinking. I think some individual things could’ve been done differently, Elliott Bennett at number 10 would’ve never happened for me either, but in a season with 1000’s of individual decisions like that, we’ve got far more correct. (Despite TM ruining Bobby Moores career in a different life)

On squad building - there’s an assumption it’s a simple task too - the way you particularly compared DJ’s squad assembly for the PL2 with TM’s for the championship shows how little you seemingly understand the competition for the better players in the top few tiers of football, and the huge jump between cost from second to top tier.

For all the “warning signs” being ignored, I could point out good signs across the board, in the first team, overall squad, attitude and application at ALL levels, potential within the group, the u23s, recruitment, expectation et al.

You think it will turn sour, and I’m not denying that possibility, but I think you and others need to start embracing the positive steps the club has taken in 25 months of the current manager’s stewardship.

If TM walked tomorrow, the club he inherited is a completely different to the one he’d leave!

We’ve covered all of this several times.

It’s really odd though that you quote points where I have been proven correct and use this as a stick to beat me with.

We cannot continue indefinitely to underachieve. Time is not on our side.

I disagree that the club is any different today than the one Mowbray walked in to.

[Pedro]

Just now, Stuart said:

He can’t be lauded for getting a team that “should” be in the play-offs by not doing. That’s the definition of under-achieving.

Saying that, I’m not sure I agree that this squad should be in the play-offs. It could have but my beef is that in January he refused to try.

A bang average run of results (rather than woeful) throughout Dec, Feb and March and some obvious selections would have seen us there (in my opinion).

 

 

[SBlue]

Just now, Stuart said:

He can’t be lauded for getting a team that “should” be in the play-offs by not doing. That’s the definition of under-achieving.

Saying that, I’m not sure I agree that this squad should be in the play-offs. It could have but my beef is that in January he refused to try.

 

So ZERO credit for getting us into that position?

 

Just Ctrl-V “I don’t like Tony Mowbray no ifs no buts” every time and save your keyboard.

Mental gymnastics is a dangerous sport Stuart, probably best to turn in the leotard until we lose a game (which you don’t care about anymore unless it’s Charlton)

 

[blueboy3333]

 

27 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Eh!? Bowyer had Hanley, Duffy, Ollsen, Cairney, Marshall, King, Gestede, Rhodes etc....he MASSIVELY underachieved with a squad that were the envy of the whole league! 

He bought most of them (or brought them through the youths) for less than it cost for BB's right leg. 

 

27 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Mowbray doesn’t have that. The end.

Exactly, because he's a bit shit in the transfer market and he wasted all his money on BB. The end

Edited April 20, 2019 by blueboy3333

[Pedro]

19 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Taking us from the dropping shit stone we were under Coyle and developing us as a squad and side that “should be in the playoffs”?

Surely you follow me?

My point is that we were there, on the edge of it (again). But silly selections to fit names into the 11, testicle-less tactics and strange decisions cost us dearly.  I was late to the party and thought it was basically the players making individual errors which was the main problem (which they did) but as time went on (and results continued to be awful) I honestly think that there are a lot of people proven right that Mowbray was one of the main problems and clearly should have been more expansive with his approach and blooded Rothwell, paired Travis with Reed and dropped Mulgrew earlier. Recent results back them up don't you think?

[SBlue]

Certainly a combination of factors... no one can ignore the crapness of the crap run.

But deep down I didn’t really think we were ever in with a proper shout (considering the competition) and the “achievement” of getting us to the point where we started getting carried away with ourselves seems to have been forgotten or completely taken for granted.

Really want us to end positively and unbeaten from here on in now - top half would be cracking and give us a platform.

Edited April 20, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[Ewood Ace]

32 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Eh!? Bowyer had Hanley, Duffy, Ollsen, Cairney, Marshall, King, Gestede, Rhodes etc....he MASSIVELY underachieved with a squad that were the envy of the whole league! 

Mowbray doesn’t have that. The end.

 

Bowyer signed the likes of Cariney, Duffy, Gestede, Marshall, Conway, Evans combined for less than Mowbray paid for Brereton. Just let that sink in he signed 5 player who either before or since have played international football, 3 of them have gone on to play in the premier league and combined all 6 combined cost less than our £7 Million forward who still hasn't scored a goal.   

Bowyer's could spot a player but unfortunately he wasn't very good tactically and was too conservative in his approach just like Mowbray.

[blueboy3333]

I like Tony again now. He's the best. 

[scotchrover]

34 minutes ago, Biz said:

First paragraph - mentioned three who you want to play, who don’t play, I see it as finding/developing players that are turning into quality players through our system.

Rothwell particularly - I’m sure I don’t have to point out the irony in “look, I told you he’d do well if he played regularly” when it’s the manager who has worked the particular player into the system in training, and the team reaped the rewards. Many will openly criticise the BB 7m disaster, but I don’t see anyone here praising Joe R’s signing adding way more than that cost into the first team for zip!

Smallwood, Bennett, Evans, Conway - castigated for their inclusion at times, but a more reasonable commentary would be the senior players have played there part this season. Most fans know the dangers of changing things too rapidly, yet many here would sell/release 5/6 players without even blinking. I think some individual things could’ve been done differently, Elliott Bennett at number 10 would’ve never happened for me either, but in a season with 1000’s of individual decisions like that, we’ve got far more correct. (Despite TM ruining Bobby Moores career in a different life)

On squad building - there’s an assumption it’s a simple task too - the way you particularly compared DJ’s squad assembly for the PL2 with TM’s for the championship shows how little you seemingly understand the competition for the better players in the top few tiers of football, and the huge jump between cost from second to top tier.

For all the “warning signs” being ignored, I could point out good signs across the board, in the first team, overall squad, attitude and application at ALL levels, potential within the group, the u23s, recruitment, expectation et al.

You think it will turn sour, and I’m not denying that possibility, but I think you and others need to start embracing the positive steps the club has taken in 25 months of the current manager’s stewardship.

If TM walked tomorrow, the club he inherited is a completely different to the one he’d leave!

Well said that man. It makes me wonder if the people who moan about Mowbray were advising Venky’s, when they sacked Allardyce. God forbid they still read this message board- some people genuinely scare me to death with their opinions on here. 

[philipl]

Not enough skill and certainly not enough mental toughness in the current squad to be promotion prospects. Given a team selection from a combination of Bowyer's squad and this squad, who would select as many as four from the players Mowbray has available?

However, we have more in this current set up than we have produced.

Consistency has only been in bad things:

-goal gifting (including yesterday)

- torrents of goals conceded after 70th minute. (including yesterday)

- failure to see games out

Oddities seen too often:

- do we really have such outrageous talents we can play 3 or more random players outside their best position in every match selection? (Penny seems to have dropped in this regard in the last three games)

- were travis and Rothwell really only ready for first team action when they came in through injuries to other players?

- is Rodwell never worth trying in the position he won 3 England caps?

- Brereton played anywhere except where he is supposed to be any good

 

 

[Stuart]

16 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

 

So ZERO credit for getting us into that position?

 

Just Ctrl-V “I don’t like Tony Mowbray no ifs no buts” every time and save your keyboard.

Mental gymnastics is a dangerous sport Stuart, probably best to turn in the leotard until we lose a game (which you don’t care about anymore unless it’s Charlton)

 

Think we are at cross purposes here - at least I hope we are.

You want me to give Mowbray credit for NOT getting a team into the play-offs with a team that “SHOULD”?

[SBlue]

Just now, Stuart said:

Think we are at cross purposes here - at least I hope we are.

You want me to give Mowbray credit for NOT getting a team into the play-offs with a team that “SHOULD”?

Maybe don’t butt into other people’s conversations just to ctrl-v “I don’t like Mowbray”??

No.

I am saying I don’t think we “should” be in the playoffs as Pedro does - but the very fact that it is under discussion shows how far Mowbray has brought us.

Edited April 20, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[47er]

On 19/04/2019 at 19:47, blueboy3333 said:

In your opinion. I've seen nothing to suggest he can take us any further 

His record suggests he can't.