Mowbray: Stay or go?

[Paul Mani]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

And don't forget it's always '2.5' attackers - except yesterday when we won with '3.5' and also didn't get annihilated. Mowbray's flawed judgement and cautious, inflexible thinking once again laid bare. 

Both his teams though...? 

This really is painful ???

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Both his teams though...? 

This really is painful ???

???????????????????????

Don't reply to posts if you don't know understand them. 

[Stuart]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

They played together once. So what? Midfields that vacate the centre of the pitch are always a worry for managers. It’s the same reason Gerrard and Lampard never worked.

I though you might have apologised, one for misunderstanding the point and jumping on ARA and two for patronising him with “old chap”.

Prior to yesterday, we had two wins in 12. In both matches it was Travis and Reed.

Now that we have had back to back wins Mowbray is suddenly a genius. You’ll be telling us all next that he has responsible for Rothwell’s development!

9 defeats in the last 13 games. It will take a while to erase that record.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Can someone find the bit where I said every time we play Reed and Travis in midfield together we get annaihilited please?

The point I made related to the discussion on Reed and Travis but was about midfielders who vacate the midfield.

 

On ‎11‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 10:53, Paul Mani said:

He’s right btw. Reed and Travis at times vacate the CM and create holes for teams to annaihilate us in transition and on the counter. 

So perhaps you could give us just a couple of examples of when a side has annihilated us on the counter when Travis and Reed have played central together?

Edited April 14, 2019 by Ewood Ace

[imy9]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

No, it's based on the FACT he signed BB for £7m instead of signing a GK, a CB and a LB.

He didnt spend anywhere near 7 million and BB should be judged after a pre season/Christmas IMO.

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

It's based on his poor record in general in the transfer market, which BB is a massive part of.  

Dack is obvious, Rothwell will come good, Chapman too. Reed and Armstrong have been good signings too.

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Also based on the FACT he said in February that it would be difficult to sign better players than the CB's we already have and then changed his tune to 'I know we need defenders' a month later when were getting pumped. We'd already been pumped regularly in Nov/Dec so he was actually talking out of his arse anyway. 

Hindsight is wonderful,  had everyone been fit, this would not be a conversation. We have a limited budget and i would wait until the right player appeared than by dross. 

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Then there's his 'human qualities' of being 'loyal' that seriously impairs his judgement and costs the team points.

Then there's not picking the players in their best positions.

Then there' his '2 and a half' attacker bullshit - the theory being you can only have an attacking winger on one side of the pitch and not both because otherwise you'd leave yourself open. Amazingly yesterday we actually played with  3 and a half attackers and didn't get pumped, We didn't need a 'Bennett or a Conway' on the wing to balance things out, we had two proper attackers out wide. Puts his BS about Chapman not playing last season into perspective too. 

Agreed with the above. 

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

The legend of the Oldham full-back. Mowbray's negativity in a nutshell.

Also that he sets up his team to 'stop counter-attacks' - which explains our pitiful goals return at Ewood in the first half of matches.

Tony tends to make it up as he goes along. His judgement IMO is flawed and so is his character. He may be a 'nice guy' but you don't 'stay loyal' to players who are contributing to the team getting stuffed most weeks. Mowbray did exactly that. 

His character is not flawed imo, he is someone who is loyal to his players, but this was a season of consolidation and he has stated that next season players will be bought to replace the current crop...so lets see.

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I could go on....emotion is a real bugger. ??

Overall for me Tony is at 7/10. Done well to get here but areas of improvement needed to progress.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

???????????????????????

Don't reply to posts if you don't know understand them. 

I’m not the one trying to take the moral high ground for a win I had absolutely nothing to do with. A point made even more odd by the fact that the two systems were picked by the same manager!? So both the criticism AND the credit should go to him? ???

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Stuart said:

I though you might have apologised, one for misunderstanding the point and jumping on ARA and two for patronising him with “old chap”.

Prior to yesterday, we had two wins in 12. In both matches it was Travis and Reed.

Now that we have had back to back wins Mowbray is suddenly a genius. You’ll be telling us all next that he has responsible for Rothwell’s development!

9 defeats in the last 13 games. It will take a while to erase that record.

Haha as always, the forum police when it suits ??

[frosty]

12 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Rothwell, although not the finished article, has finally come good at the right time 

He's been good all season, he stood out a mile the first time he came on as sub v Millwall at home. We'd be quite a few points better off if it hadn't taken Mowbray until April to make him a regular starter - so I agree with 'finally' in that sense.

Hopefully Mowbray has realised now and he can be a regular starter from now on, like Travis mainly has been after for some reason being ignored until Christmas.

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by frosty

[Mattyblue]

BB didn’t cost ‘anywhere near £7million’.

I thought the most recent accounts stated that he did?

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Stuart said:

I though you might have apologised, one for misunderstanding the point and jumping on ARA and two for patronising him with “old chap”.

Prior to yesterday, we had two wins in 12. In both matches it was Travis and Reed.

Now that we have had back to back wins Mowbray is suddenly a genius. You’ll be telling us all next that he has responsible for Rothwell’s development!

9 defeats in the last 13 games. It will take a while to erase that record.

It will for you Stu. I never care much for the past. The present and more importantly the future is all we have ??

[blueboy3333]

Just now, imy9 said:

He didnt spend anywhere near 7 million and BB should be judged after a pre season/Christmas IMO.

He spent £7.6m, it's in the accounts. Not all on BB but there was also another £2m to come out at a future date. So £9.6m in total in the last reporting year. £7m of that will have been on BB. Mowbray admitted in the other day in the press. 

 

Just now, imy9 said:

Hindsight is wonderful,  had everyone been fit, this would not be a conversation. We have a limited budget and i would wait until the right player appeared than by dross. 

Everyone was fit when Bristol City, Brentford, PNE and Wigan battered us. That's the point. 'Honest' Tony has ignored all that and just said our defensive problems started when Lenihan was injured. They didn't and he knows it. He's just covering his arse. 

 

Just now, imy9 said:

His character is not flawed imo, he is someone who is loyal to his players, but this was a season of consolidation and he has stated that next season players will be bought to replace the current crop...so lets see.

The very definition of a 'flawed' character is staying loyal to people who aren't performing in the team. It's not about Tony and his 'loyalty', it's about what's best for BRFC. 

[BankEnd Rover]

Just now, frosty said:

He's been good all season, he stood out a mile the first time he came on as sub v Millwall at home. We'd be quite a few points better off if it hadn't taken Mowbray until April to make him a regular starter - so I agree with 'finally' in that sense.

Hopefully Mowbray has realised now and he can be a regular starter from now on, like Travis mainly has been after for some reason being ignored until Christmas.

 

It's those type of decisions from TM why there is so much tension from fans. It's simple, we could see it, why couldn't he? Is he starting to now see it? Maybe? hope so? Doubt it!

[imy9]

Just now, frosty said:

He's been good all season, he stood out a mile the first time he came on as sub v Millwall at home. We'd be quite a few points better off if it hadn't taken Mowbray until April to make him a regular starter - so I agree with 'finally' in that sense.

Hopefully Mowbray has realised now and he can be a regular starter from now on, like Travis mainly has been after for some reason being ignored until Christmas.

 

We dont see the players in training but i would say this, Travis was brought into the team by Tony and Rothwell bought by him, so surely he gets credit for both?

[Paul Mani]

Just now, imy9 said:

We dont see the players in training but i would say this, Travis was brought into the team by Tony and Rothwell bought by him, so surely he gets credit for both?

??

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

BB didn’t cost ‘anywhere near £7million’.

I thought the most recent accounts stated that he did?

£7.6m and another £2m at a later date on the transfer since last summer iirc. That makes BB £7m, AA £1.75 and Rothwell and the rest £1m (ish) 

Mowbray admitted in the press only last week that BB cost the equivalent of '6 or 7 players at £1m each'. 

[Paul Mani]

Just now, imy9 said:

We dont see the players in training but i would say this, Travis was brought into the team by Tony and Rothwell bought by him, so surely he gets credit for both?

It’s a constant shifting of the ground to fit an argument mate. 

He loses games and it’s his fault. He wins games and he’s lucky. Even worse, there’s a genuine belief that they know so much more than the manager, regardless of the fact that we never see the players in training, have no idea of personal issues etc. The manager fronts all of that up btw.

He loses 9 games in 13 or whatever and is castigated but keeps hitting season goals by pure luck...??

[Stuart]

5 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

BB didn’t cost ‘anywhere near £7million’.

I thought the most recent accounts stated that he did?

And Mowbray.

[Stuart]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

It’s a constant shifting of the ground to fit an argument mate. 

He loses games and it’s his fault. He wins games and he’s lucky. Even worse, there’s a genuine belief that they know so much more than the manager, regardless of the fact that we never see the players in training, have no idea of personal issues etc. The manager fronts all of that up btw.

He loses 9 games in 13 or whatever and is castigated but keeps hitting season goals by pure luck...??

This is called a straw man argument. It’s where you insert your own ludicrous version of someone else’s argument so that you can burn it down easily. (I felt I had to post that because you keep doing it).

He isn’t “lucky” when he wins one game but when he picks the ‘right’ team for two wins but stubbornly and deliberately picks the ‘wrong’ team and loses 9 games, what would you call it? It sure isn’t luck. Here’s a clue:

P _ _ r M_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ t

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Stuart said:

This is called a straw man argument. It’s where you insert your own ludicrous version of someone else’s argument so that you can burn it down easily. (I felt I had to post that because you keep doing it).

He isn’t “lucky” when he wins one game but when he picks the ‘right’ team for two wins but stubbornly and deliberately picks the ‘wrong’ team and loses 9 games, what would you call it? It sure isn’t luck. Here’s a clue:

P _ _ r M_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ t

Ok, so winning one game isn’t luck. What about winning enough games to hit your season targets for two seasons? That lucky too?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

He's an average manager as his CV makes plain. He nearly kept us up in his first half a season but his cautious attitude ultimately led to us not keeping our heads above water. Last season we got promotion comfortably in the end but we were less than convincing for long periods in a pretty average division. The abdication of our pursuit of the league title left a bad taste in some peoples mouths, mine included. This season he's stuck with the old guard for too long when fresh blood was required. Some one mentioned that it's not his fault that we couldn't sign a desperately needed back up centre half in January but he has to take responsibility for the situation we found ourselves in with a young kid having to be thrown in at the deep end. A young kid who would have been behind Downing, Wharton and Platt in the pecking order if he hadn't foolishly loaned out all three to other clubs.

On the recruitment front he's got more wrong than he has right. That's what average managers do. Good managers also make poor signings but they tend to get more right than wrong. 

If we want to maintain our somewhat  bumpy progress in an upwards direction I honestly don't think he's the man for the job. I really like him a lot as a bloke and I've no doubt that he'd be good company if you met him in the pub. However things change rapidly in football and by and large it's a younger mans game these days. I've made it plain before that I'd like him to remain at the club as a sort of father figure and for Johnno to having a much greater input on the first team coaching side. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[imy9]

19 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

£7.6m and another £2m at a later date on the transfer since last summer iirc. That makes BB £7m, AA £1.75 and Rothwell and the rest £1m (ish) 

Mowbray admitted in the press only last week that BB cost the equivalent of '6 or 7 players at £1m each'. 

Where is the information from? I have a very limited understanding of accounts, so any clarity would be appreciated.

[Stuart]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Ok, so winning one game isn’t luck. What about winning enough games to hit your season targets for two seasons? That lucky too?

Please, please take the hint. Last season Mowbray didn’t just strike lucky, he struck gold. We have to draw a line under what was in effect Manchester City playing in the Championship.

He has grossly underachieved this season. Staying up might have been the aim if we hadn’t spent £10m in the Summer; if we hadn’t been within 3 points of the play-offs in January. Mowbray did a good job for the first half of the season in a tight division, he had an excellent four game spell, then sabotaged all of that progress by weakening the team in the last window instead of strengthening it.

What do you think is more likely to be the ‘real Tony Mowbray’ at Championship level. Four games in January, two games in April when he started playing Rothwell (under duress), or the time in between?

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

He thinks he's clever. The fact he didn't understand your point speaks volumes. 

I'm sure he knew but tried to muddy the waters again. 

I hope his payslip reflects the effort he puts in on here as a protector.

He's turned up early too, he said before he only came on during the transfer window but I suppose he thought Mowbray needed his efforts.

Bit sad really.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, imy9 said:

Where is the information from? I have a very limited understanding of accounts, so any clarity would be appreciated.

In the Venkys account thread 

[Paul Mani]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

I'm sure he knew but tried to muddy the waters again. 

I hope his payslip reflects the effort he puts in on here as a protector.

He's turned up early too, he said before he only came on during the transfer window but I suppose he thought Mowbray needed his efforts.

Bit sad really.

*Realist