Mowbray: Stay or go?

[SBlue]

About realistic value for me rather than the actual numbers being reduced (although I expect they have)

Probably get three Smallwoods, two Lewis Travis and a couple of Joe Rothwells for one Lowe, Akpan and Feeney.

[SBlue]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

So why is everyone still afraid of a worse replacement if Mowbray was to go?

Same Venkys, different day.

He’s improved in areas he can. Of course everyone fears a replacement - why give them the chance to spin the wheel again when things are relatively on the up? It’s a sad fact of life that we’d probably end up with Big Eck.

But some of us think he is doing an overall good job and better managers don’t grow on trees

Seems a bit odd to say Mowbray hasn’t improved the club because we don’t want him replaced...??

[Stuart]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

He’s improved in areas he can. Of course everyone fears a replacement - why give them the chance to spin the wheel again when things are relatively on the up? It’s a sad fact of life that we’d probably end up with Big Eck.

But some of us think he is doing an overall good job and better managers don’t grow on trees

Seems a bit odd to say Mowbray hasn’t improved the club because we don’t want him replaced...??

He has done a decent job. In spite of the advantages in his favour last season, a complete novice would probably have mucked things up. Any decent manage would have got us up though.

However, I do not see him taking us any further and because of his own stubbornness will probably stick with most of this season’s team which could well see us in a relegation battle. Notwithstanding he has finally seen the light with Rothwell and Travis, there are still a lot of areas in the first team which needs upgrading.

What is your yardstick as to whether he has taken us as far as he can? Or would you only make a change if it looked like we could be in danger of relegation?

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Just now, Stuart said:

He has done a decent job. In spite of the advantages in his favour last season, a complete novice would probably have mucked things up. Any decent manage would have got us up though.

However, I do not see him taking us any further and because of his own stubbornness will probably stick with most of this season’s team which could well see us in a relegation battle. Notwithstanding he has finally seen the light with Rothwell and Travis, there are still a lot of areas in the first team which needs upgrading.

What is your yardstick as to whether he has taken us as far as he can? Or would you only make a change if it looked like we could be in danger of relegation?

Could it be that Mowbray has made Travis and Rothwell better players?

[SBlue]

Just now, Stuart said:

He has done a decent job. In spite of the advantages in his favour last season, a complete novice would probably have mucked things up. Any decent manage would have got us up though.

However, I do not see him taking us any further and because of his own stubbornness will probably stick with most of this season’s team which could well see us in a relegation battle. Notwithstanding he has finally seen the light with Rothwell and Travis, there are still a lot of areas in the first team which needs upgrading.

What is your yardstick as to whether he has taken us as far as he can? Or would you only make a change if it looked like we could be in danger of relegation?

I think the fact that we could be on for a top half finish with an exciting young squad coming through after the past few years of shite kind of makes the point moot.

I’ll know when I see the yardstick - it would usually start with us going stopping moving forwards.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

it would usually start with us going stopping moving forwards.

Tough one to visualise. ?

[Stuart]

Just now, deryck guyler's spoon said:

Could it be that Mowbray has made Travis and Rothwell better players?

Not in my opinion, and it’s rather rich to even suggest that after the way both have been treated. Johnson and Dunn get the credit for Trav, whereas Rothwell is a good player in spite of Mowbray. The latter will be dropped at the earliest excuse - probably for not tracking back to avoid exposing our shaky full backs.

Now, if he can build a team around the two of them, bringing in a new CF, CB and GK then just maybe he has woken up. However, I don’t believe he will and the fact that we have needed the CB and GK for the last two windows and haven’t looked at either suggests Mowbray doesn’t see it.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Stuart

[Stuart]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

I think the fact that we could be on for a top half finish with an exciting young squad coming through after the past few years of shite kind of makes the point moot.

I’ll know when I see the yardstick - it would usually start with us going stopping moving forwards.

Us finishing in the top half this season really will paper over the cracks. Sadly, it is likely to take another injury to demonstrate to TM that we need to recruit.

Bauer will come in given how long he has been public ally courted and we will get a new reserve keeper and that will be that.

I honestly hope that I’m proven wrong on this btw!

[SBlue]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Tough one to visualise. ?

I probably shouldn’t drive for a few hours tbh

[SBlue]

Just now, Stuart said:

Us finishing in the top half this season really will paper over the cracks. Sadly, it is likely to take another injury to demonstrate to TM that we need to recruit.

Bauer will come in given how long he has been public ally courted and we will get a new reserve keeper and that will be that.

I honestly hope that I’m proven wrong on this btw!

Strange how some see us papering over the cracks, whilst others criticise TM because we should have been nearer the playoffs.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

I probably shouldn’t drive for a few hours tbh

I'm off out on my bike. I'm jober as a sudge. 

Ladies of Lancashire, prepare to leave your husbands - my white, hairless pipe-cleaner legs are irresistible.  

[roversfan99]

Just now, Stuart said:

Not in my opinion, and it’s rather rich to even suggest that after the way both have been treated. Johnson and Dunn get the credit for Trav.m, whereas Rothwell is a good player in spite of Mowbray. The latter will be dropped at the earliest excuse - probably for not tracking back to avoid exposing our shaky full backs.

Now, if he can build a team around the two of them, bringing in a new CF, CB and GK then just maybe he has woken up. However, I don’t believe he will and the fact that we have needed the CB and GK for the last two windows and haven’t looked at either suggests Mowbray doesn’t see it.

Rothwell wouldnt be a Rovers player at all if it wasnt for Mowbray so to say hes a good one in spite of Mowbray is a little unfair.

That being said, I dont think at this point in time you could judge him as a very good signing simply on account of lack of games and as a result, goals and assists.

Travis has much less reason to feel aggrieved about how he has been treated, indeed I have been pleasantly surprised that he has managed to break up the Evans and Smallwood axis on practically a permanent basis since coming into the team at Sheffield United. Deservedly so.

[SBlue]

Trav keeps getting better and better too.

Hard to credit Dunny with that since he’s been off selling sheds or whatever for a year.

 

Player good or improved - in spite of TM

Player bad - damn you TM!

[Stuart]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

Strange how some see us papering over the cracks, whilst others criticise TM because we should have been nearer the playoffs.

It’s not that strange.

We should have strengthened in January to support a play-off push when we were still in with a decent shout at the half way mark. Instead we weakened the team, left out key players for long spells, and the season has seen us limp to safety, to an extent thanks to some very poor sides at the bottom.

Yet now that we are safe is Mowbray for some reason trying to finish as strongly as possible by playing those players, with nothing of any value at stake. It’s too late for that.

The cracks for me are poor recruitment and poor decision making. Even now the decision-making should be about getting youngsters some experience, in preparation for next season but he is doing the opposite.

Let’s say we win all of our dead rubbers (Bolton down, Norwich already promoted, Swansea safe) and finish on 65 points, just 7 or 8 shy of the play-offs. Does this mean it has been a good season and sudden we don’t have any gaps to recruit for? Because on the face of it, that’s exactly what happened in January.

Aiming for some arbitrary 60 point mark just seems pointless if it comes at the expense of Davenport, Buckley or others getting some first team game time.

[SBlue]

Still a hell of an improvement for me - and where you see (valid) concerns, there are imo equal reasons for optimism.

 

Surely you want us to beat Bolton though?

Same team would be fine by me

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Rothwell wouldnt be a Rovers player at all if it wasnt for Mowbray so to say hes a good one in spite of Mowbray is a little unfair.

That being said, I dont think at this point in time you could judge him as a very good signing simply on account of lack of games and as a result, goals and assists.

Travis has much less reason to feel aggrieved about how he has been treated, indeed I have been pleasantly surprised that he has managed to break up the Evans and Smallwood axis on practically a permanent basis since coming into the team at Sheffield United. Deservedly so.

I'm under the impression that Rothwell wasn't getting a game because he was neglecting the ugly side of the game. Isn't it the case that the lad has displayed his abilities of late from a platform of doing the nasty stuff when he doesn't have the ball at his feet?

Edited April 21, 2019 by deryck guyler's spoon

[imy9]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

Anthony Stokes upfront ?    When did this happen ?  

Anthony Stokes up in a bar in Edinburgh more like !

Just for a bit of balance and to highlight why some get annoyed at Mowbray despite some of the good stuff you've mentioned we also had a team that got relegated with Nyambe, Lenihen, Mulgrew and Williams often in defence.....we often still do.

That needs sorting as does the keeper situation.

Lenihen and Nyambe are better players now than they were 2 years ago. Mulgrew wasn't scoring the goals he is now in the championship either. 

This summer is a big one for recruitment and it needs to be for Mowbray and our sakes. 

[joey_big_nose]

18 minutes ago, Stuart said:

He has done a decent job. In spite of the advantages in his favour last season, a complete novice would probably have mucked things up. Any decent manage would have got us up though.

However, I do not see him taking us any further and because of his own stubbornness will probably stick with most of this season’s team which could well see us in a relegation battle. Notwithstanding he has finally seen the light with Rothwell and Travis, there are still a lot of areas in the first team which needs upgrading.

What is your yardstick as to whether he has taken us as far as he can? Or would you only make a change if it looked like we could be in danger of relegation?

I would say youre being a bit harsh on Mowbray. Rothwell and Travis are starting every game and look set to until the end of the season, and will surely start next season.

He might have come round to it later than we hoped, but he is there now I think.

[SBlue]

Just now, deryck guyler's spoon said:

I'm under the impression that Rothwell wasn't getting a game because he was neglecting the ugly side of the game. Isn't it the case that the lad has displayed his abilities of late from a platform of doing the nasty stuff when he doesn't have the ball at his feet?

That’s the way I see it, but in order to hold this opinion you have to accept that -

 

A ) TM was right

B ) TM has improved the player

 

that’s along with signing him in the first place!

 

Don't think we’ll see a concession along these lines from some.

 

Trav could go on to win a ballon d’or playing for us but TM would be getting pelter’s for not having him in the team as an under-9.

[imy9]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

Have to take a few issues with this Imy...

1. Mowbray's transfer record is very chequered at present, so I don't think we can start praising the scouting network until it starts producing for us. We've spent most of this season lining up with players that were already here when Mowbray arrived. Raya, Bennett, Nyambe, Lenihan, Mulgrew, Williams, Evans, Travis and Graham have all played fairly often. Dack, Chapman, Smallwood and Armstrong were brought in very early on before Mowbray would have had a chance to seriously implement a scouting network. 

The fruits of any major change to our scouting network so far have been Brereton, Rothwell, Rodwell, Reed and Amari Bell so... hmm. The summer needs to show improvement.

My point is that we had no scouting network (International one) so there is one now, which Mowbray has wanted. How effective it is, well we shall see. Think we have had a scouting network in the UK and that would account for all the players Mowbray has signed. 

2 hours ago, DE. said:

2. We were three points off safety with 15 games to go when Mowbray came in, so whilst we were struggling I wouldn't call it free fall. Free fall is Ipswich this season, or Rotherham the season we went down. As for us being playoff contenders, we're way off. Way off. We need a lot of upgrades and for Mowbray to gain some serious courage. If we'd been utilising the likes of Rothwell, Reed and Travis properly two months ago who knows where we would be now? Instead we waited until our season was dead in the water before taking a chance, and I'm afraid that it doesn't mean much now. Mowbray needs to be braver when there's still something to play for, or we will have to accept mid-table at best for his entire run here.

We were 3 points off safety and we are currently 16 points clear of relegation and 11 off play offs. With pretty much the same team, how do we account for the difference? Glass half empty or glass half full, Mowbray deserves praise. 

2 hours ago, DE. said:

3. I'm surprised by this if it's true. We still have all of our big earners from when Mowbray joined, and I assume they haven't taken a pay cut with their new contracts? Some players have gone but I can't think of anybody who would have been on huge wages, and most of them were replaced, one assumes on comparable if slightly lower wages.

Premier league players have left with their wages and I'm sure Mowbray has spoken of us cutting our cloth accordingly. We were under an embargo for a while too so wages were limited to 10k a week as well. 

2 hours ago, DE. said:

4. Agree on this point.

I feel like the club is roughly back to the same state it was in when GB was here, with a lower wage budget but a higher transfer budget... so again no real difference. The board situation is a little stronger, I think, which is good. That said I'm still unsure where the true authority lies and whether Waggott, for example, is able to agree budgets or if he has to go through Venky's/Pasha first. It worries me that Mowbray is still having to fly out to India. That shouldn't be necessary with a proper board structure in place. 

I also feel we resemble a football club again, we are not focused on dodgy agents or managers who have no business in being here. I would give Mowbray until Christmas and then evaluate what we do next. 

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

That’s the way I see it, but in order to hold this opinion you have to accept that -

 

A ) TM was right

B ) TM has improved the player

 

that’s along with signing him in the first place!

 

Don't think we’ll see a concession along these lines from some.

 

Trav could go on to win a ballon d’or playing for us but TM would be getting pelter’s for not having him in the team as an under-9.

I bet TM has no idea that he is such a polarising figure. He doesn't seem the sort. I can see why people get frustrated with him but his cautious approach might have paid off with Travis and Rothwell.

[SBlue]

Just now, imy9 said:

We were under an embargo for a while too so wages were limited to 10k a week as well. 

That time always put into context Bowyers’ signings for me.

When we were offering inflated wages we signed decent players.

But he used to come out and say “we can only offer 10k a week now” - over 50% of the league pissed their pants and we ended up with Akpan, Koita and Petschi.

 

[roversfan99]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

That time always put into context Bowyers’ signings for me.

When we were offering inflated wages we signed decent players.

But he used to come out and say “we can only offer 10k a week now” - over 50% of the league pissed their pants and we ended up with Akpan, Koita and Petschi.

 

The problem at that time was that not only could we only offer 10k but we also were unable due to the embargo to pay a fee. The likes of Conway, Marshall, Duffy, Cairney and Gestede all cost small fees, less combined than Breretons.

Edited April 21, 2019 by roversfan99

[m1st]

Just now, deryck guyler's spoon said:

I bet TM has no idea that he is such a polarising figure.

Really? Surely someone in the club's backroom must keep an eye on this Message Board?

Not saying that he'll act on our suggestions, mind!

[SBlue]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

The problem at that time was that not only could we only offer 10k but we also were unable due to the embargo to pay a fee. The likes of Conway, Marshall, Duffy, Cairney and Gestede all cost small fees, less combined than Breretons.

Wage flex mate, get with the program ?