Mowbray: Stay or go?

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, mustard said:

Find it baffling a number of people's minds are made up on the lad when he's played a few hundred minutes for us AT THE MOST with over 3/4 of his involvement coming off the bench very late on.  I thought on Saturday he looked far more robust than previous, was constantly asking for the ball (as he has been whenever he's played), lead the line well, linked up for some good play with Rothwell and Dack and bagged a good goal.  In previous cameos you could see he was feeling the pressure of his transfer fee and the lack of goals affected his confidence and thus performances.  I think Monday was the first real taste of what he has to offer and I for one am not going to get on the boy's back, badmouth him and jump on every mistake he makes to try and point-score on social media with the "told you he was s**t" bollocks.  Whatever happened to backing your team's players and wanting them to succeed?

Don't get me wrong, I'd have spent the money differently as I felt investment was needed to sort out our defensive frailties.  Alas, it wasn't, and people are free to malign Mowbray for his choices there, but all talk of the lad being useless is utter claptrap from folk who have seen him play a handful of minutes, haven't the footballing brains to say whether or not he'll make it and quite frankly don't want to own up to being wrong so will no doubt steadfastly defend their position regardless of how well he performs in the future (cognitive dissonance, anyone?).  Those at the game on Monday (or anyone who has watched the full match since), who were watching objectively and not isolating every little mistake the lad made (like we've seen the same fans do with other Rovers players over the years), could see he played well, is clearly a talent and yet still a small group who shout the loudest are saying he played rubbish and missed a few sitters.  Absolute nonsense.

It's unfortunate we have a minute subset of fans who have very much written the lad off and are looking for any excuse to dig at him, simply due to his high price tag/their dislike of the manager (who I have been very critical of this season, not so much on here).  But I'd sooner listen to Mowbray, Karanka (who didn't want him to leave) and the Forest fans who've seen him play a lot more (who also didn't want him to leave) rather than the folk who are expecting a 19 (just turned 20) year old to displace the brilliant Danny Graham and immediately adapt to mostly long-ball football which clearly wasn't suiting his style of play.  I do think he needs to bulk up and become stronger and more of a nuisance but he's raw and learning, and I feel Saturday showed he's come on a lot in that respect from mirroring DG and will only continue to improve.

Edit: typos

Can we please stop with this nonsensical myth that ANY Rovers fans want him and are willing him to fail. 

We are talking about a striker who cost 7m and going into game 44 of the season, had yet to score a single goal, and has often to be honest looked out of his depth. Obviously that is partially down to lack of appearances, which then brings us back to a point people often mention and even you have acknowledged, that the 7m could have been much better spent elsewhere. Even you have said that Monday "was the first real taste of what he has to offer" so why does it surprise and seemingly disgust you to see that prior to that, most comments on social media were critical? If he has been a poor signing people are going to say so, it doesnt mean that they are happy, or it doesnt mean that they arent supportive of him, its social media, its for opinions both positive and negative, and its mutually exclusive to supporting him on a match day.

Why do you have the arrogance to suggest that others lack the footballing brains to be able to judge a players ability seemingly as well as you can?

Please can you point out where these people are saying he played rubbish? He did miss a few chances, one was a sitter, but he played well and got an important goal which he has been from what I have seen both in the ground and since roundly praised. The relief and joy in the ground was tangible when he scored.

Im fed up of seeing people trying to take the moral higher ground and ultimately create an atmosphere whereby it is unacceptable to criticise a player even if he plays crap, or if he should have been signed. Social media and forums are the perfect platform to air such views if that is the case. 

No one has said that he should have replaced Danny Graham either. I think its a reasonable expectation to expect a 7m striker with over 50 Championship appearances, even at his age, to at least provide some competition, and to provide a viable striking alternative to him, which up until Monday, he simply hadnt done so.

[Mattyblue]

Everyone around me was absolutely delighted when he scored and it must have been the largest cheer of the season when the PA fella announced him as the scorer.

People will always have an opinion, it used to just be in the pub or over the garden fence, however it’s now largely online. He’s had fantastic support at games and that’s all that matters.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Mattyblue

[Exiled in Toronto]

1 hour ago, philipl said:

Could be a key point in what we all have seen as excessive loyalty this season.

Listening to Mowbray's post match interview on Saturday I got a sense that certain players are not taking kindly to being dropped and he was not sympathetic. 

It makes sense to me that a new deal for these players this year was part of the agreement for them to stay last year, given they took salary drops and potentially never get back to this level again. It’s the only negotiating leverage Mowbray had.

The deals only look expensive now because it’s debatable how much they will play going forward (though Williams has revised my view on writing players off too quickly), but, compared to not having got promotion and the roles that those players played, I think it was a bargain versus the alternative.

[mustard]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Can we please stop with this nonsensical myth that ANY Rovers fans want him and are willing him to fail. 

We are talking about a striker who cost 7m and going into game 44 of the season, had yet to score a single goal, and has often to be honest looked out of his depth. Obviously that is partially down to lack of appearances, which then brings us back to a point people often mention and even you have acknowledged, that the 7m could have been much better spent elsewhere. Even you have said that Monday "was the first real taste of what he has to offer" so why does it surprise and seemingly disgust you to see that prior to that, most comments on social media were critical? If he has been a poor signing people are going to say so, it doesnt mean that they are happy, or it doesnt mean that they arent supportive of him, its social media, its for opinions both positive and negative, and its mutually exclusive to supporting him on a match day.

Why do you have the arrogance to suggest that others lack the footballing brains to be able to judge a players ability seemingly as well as you can?

Please can you point out where these people are saying he played rubbish? He did miss a few chances, one was a sitter, but he played well and got an important goal which he has been from what I have seen both in the ground and since roundly praised. The relief and joy in the ground was tangible when he scored.

Im fed up of seeing people trying to take the moral higher ground and ultimately create an atmosphere whereby it is unacceptable to criticise a player even if he plays crap, or if he should have been signed. Social media and forums are the perfect platform to air such views if that is the case. 

No one has said that he should have replaced Danny Graham either. I think its a reasonable expectation to expect a 7m striker with over 50 Championship appearances, even at his age, to at least provide some competition, and to provide a viable striking alternative to him, which up until Monday, he simply hadnt done so.

Not sure why I'm being quoted in this thread and not the Ben Brereton one...

There's being constructively critical of him and there's calling him this and that and writing him off completely, which I've seen a number of folk doing, even since Monday.  Most of the negativity I've seen towards him, even after a good performance and a goal, has been on Facebook fan groups with people genuinely saying he was rubbish vs Bolton, which I'm sorry but is frankly stupid and I'm in my right to say so.  I also wouldn't have said it was a sitter due to how it bounced up awkwardly to stomach level but to each there own; maybe he should have swan-dived towards it.

Yes, the first real taste as in his first 90 mins in his preferred role, however I've seen him play well in a few cameos, enough for me to believe he'll come good, yet some were writing him off after his first couple of games across various platforms, I think due to the fee and fans immediately having inflated expectations despite it being specifically stated by Mowbray he's one for the future.  It's not his fault he cost a lot and I'm not saying people can't critique him or say they think we should have spent the money elsewhere on the pitch, a fair observation as I said, just taking issue with the few writing him off.

It's not about my arrogance nor so much my ability to judge players rather than my faith in those who've seen more of Brereton than his critics, and particularly in coaches/managers who certainly have more footballing knowledge than your average Rovers fan.  

I am not going to screenshot or link you to comments I have seen as I cba and I'm not really addressing anyone in particular in my little rant on the BB thread, and am simply venting on what I've seen across various platforms, not so much BRFCS, so I'm not sure why you're so offended.  I even said in my original post that it's a minute subset of fans, I'm not trying to make out there's some conspiracy of people wanting him to fail nor am I trying to take the moral high ground or create an atmosphere as you have suggested, it's you sensationalising it.  

I criticise players where they deserve it, usually constructively, and think that it's obviously fair to do so.  I have choice words I could say about a number of our first team players, but I don't openly call our young players, whether they be academy graduates or those signed for the future a la BB, shite and whatnot, and personally think it is a bit distasteful when people do.  As I emphasised though, I am referring to a small group; as you said, most fans were with Ben all the way on Monday 

[Paul Mani]

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You keep saying people are thinking Preston have had a "great season" but as @Exiled in Toronto pointed out to you they finished 7th last season. They havent had a great season this year.

Also, theres no way that we have similar resources. Preston broke their transfer record in January for Potts from Barnsley if im not mistaken for the first time since signing David Healy. Less than what we paid for Armstrong who they were priced out of signing. They havent had 10m to spend, plus Waggott has stated this season that our wage budget is very competitive whereas Preston are reknown for having a small budget.

I’m not going to argue over this. I’m not saying they’ve had a great season. I’m saying that many many media outlets have portrayed them as having a great season based purely on perception. 

And having been in the Championship for a few years now I’d hazard a guess that their budget is similar to ours. Furthermore we didn’t SPEND £10m. We may have committed to it but we didn’t spend it.

 

[Mattyblue]

I would say our wage bill, transfer budget and all round infrastructure overheads (academy etc.) are considerably higher than Preston North End.

[roversfan99]

31 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I’m not going to argue over this. I’m not saying they’ve had a great season. I’m saying that many many media outlets have portrayed them as having a great season based purely on perception. 

And having been in the Championship for a few years now I’d hazard a guess that their budget is similar to ours. Furthermore we didn’t SPEND £10m. We may have committed to it but we didn’t spend it.

 

When the payment is made is irrelevant and a pedantic attempt at skewing the comparison. Preston havent committed the same amount of money to transfers that weve been able to, nowhere near. 

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

When the payment is made is irrelevant and a pedantic attempt at skewing the comparison. Preston havent committed the same amount of money to transfers that weve been able to, nowhere near. 

And that’s because of our ownership.. not despite it (tin hat on!)

[Butty]

Might change my vote from Stay too go just too piss Chaddy and his new twitter mates off.. 

[Paul Mani]

6 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

When the payment is made is irrelevant and a pedantic attempt at skewing the comparison. Preston havent committed the same amount of money to transfers that weve been able to, nowhere near. 

And your bleating about us spending £10m is equally pedantic as a good £7m of that committed spend hasn’t even affected our performances this season. The hope is that it will effect next seasons and beyond. 

The point I was making was that in spite of the squads being very similar in terms of ability and capability one has been lauded in the media and the other castigated purely because of when they had their good runs. The two managers have basically achieved the same result but the perceptions swayed.

[Paul Mani]

7 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

I would say our wage bill, transfer budget and all round infrastructure overheads (academy etc.) are considerably higher than Preston North End.

Regardless of the money, as this wasn’t my point. Are you suggesting that you expected us to finish above / the same as Preston this year? I think most Rovers fans wouldn’t have expected us to. Which takes me back to my initial point around perception.

[Mattyblue]

I was just responding to you saying we have a ‘similar budget’. I don’t think we do.

[Paul Mani]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

I was just responding to you saying we have a ‘similar budget’. I don’t think we do.

No problems. I do think our budgets are similar. Agree to disagree ?

[Paul Mani]

 

Couldn’t have worded it any better...

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17595532.simon-smith-reaction-to-ben-brereton-goal-was-heartening/

[AllRoverAsia]

8 hours ago, Butty said:

Might change my vote from Stay too go just too piss Chaddy and his new twitter mates off.. 

What sad fuckers they are, they just can't help themselves checking into here. Chaddy, less said sooner mended. Body Part.

[SBlue]

I find whinging about people taking screenshots of discussions on here, by taking screenshots of their discussions elsewhere fascinatingly ironic if not a bit hypocritical 

Edited April 25, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[tomphil]

The lost souls of BRFCSS.........

[blueboy3333]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

I find whinging about people taking screenshots of discussions on here, by taking screenshots of their discussions elsewhere fascinatingly ironic if not a bit hypocritical 

You're taking social media far too seriously again. 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, tomphil said:

The lost souls of BRFCSS......…

Is Chabby banned? 

[tomphil]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Is Chabby banned? 

As far as i'm aware.

[SBlue]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

You're taking social media far too seriously again. 

I know - I wanted to say

”lol you’re doing it you daft get!”

but I restrained myself

[blueboy3333]

Chabby and Meadows give their marks out of ten for the job Mowbray has done. 

[J*B]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Is Chabby banned? 

Chaddy was conspiring to create situations or say things explicitly to wind people up on here in his PMs. Chaddy isn't ever coming back. Jim is still viewing on his account which isn't banned, but not posting.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, J*B said:

Chaddy was conspiring to create situations or say things explicitly to wind people up on here in his PMs. Chaddy isn't ever coming back. Jim is still viewing on his account which isn't banned, but not posting.

Jim's not happy. He's just done another BRFCS-related tweet. He's not obsessed though which is the main thing.

Chabby was always a bit poisonous. 

[philipl]

Just now, J*B said:

Chaddy was conspiring to create situations or say things explicitly to wind people up on here in his PMs. Chaddy isn't ever coming back. Jim is still viewing on his account which isn't banned, but not posting.

Very sad.

Not that he is banned but that he should find it worth his time to do such a thing.