Mowbray: Stay or go?

[USABlue]

On 01/04/2019 at 15:53, OJRovers said:

I don’t think he deserves another summer transfer window.

It makes you sick looking at some of the players that have torn us apart this season from Brentford,Norwich etc etc costing a fraction of what we have spent on players that are frankly League One standard.

The exciting players we do sign don’t get picked (Rothwell/Chapman).

 

My biggest gripe with TM.

[K-Hod]

14 hours ago, CD_93 said:

No longer need to wait.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17551818.rothwell-ahead-of-chapman-in-rovers-pecking-order-mowbray/?c=p8ahz

Tells me all I need to know about Saturday's team and the team for the rest of the season. "There was a starman playing on the right but he's destined to play on the left but won't now because of that other chap I haven't been playing all season."

I have willed and wished and prayed for Mowbray to do well here. But I can't make sense of his decision making any more. Absolute bollocks - but I still hope I'm wrong.

That article would make sense if Rothwell was being picked all the time....

[JBiz]

Just now, K-Hod said:

That article would make sense if Rothwell was being picked all the time....

There’s a chance I’m becoming a parody of myself in saying that I genuinely can’t find anything wrong with what TM is saying again...

In fact, the “We want to win a game pretty quickly, and if we can get to a point in the last five or six games then maybe we’ll see some more young players getting an opportunity” is pretty much something I’ve heard you say, others here and at games, and a few other mates who watch.

Oh and for some balance, Rothwell has 29 apps in all competitions to Conway’s 23 and I bet you don’t know who’s statistically made more impact....! 

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, K-Hod said:

That article would make sense if Rothwell was being picked all the time....

Well he is, but its for the Bench.

Mowbray has a player pecking order which current form and ability has little to do with.

Pecking order based on player favourites, formation and tactics possibly in that order. 

[blueboy3333]

"Joe Rothwell deserves to play in front of Chapman" - Mowbray

Rothwell has made 6 starts. Rothwell never plays. That's how little chance  Chapman has of playing. Another in the long line of non-contributing Mowbray signings. 

He's on about recruitment in the LT today. He's lining up a load of players he'll never play. 

[JacknOry]

12 minutes ago, Biz said:

There’s a chance I’m becoming a parody of myself in saying that I genuinely can’t find anything wrong with what TM is saying again...

In fact, the “We want to win a game pretty quickly, and if we can get to a point in the last five or six games then maybe we’ll see some more young players getting an opportunity” is pretty much something I’ve heard you say, others here and at games, and a few other mates who watch.

Oh and for some balance, Rothwell has 29 apps in all competitions to Conway’s 23 and I bet you don’t know who’s statistically made more impact....! 

It's confusing as hell for one thing as apparently Chapman is competing for Rothwell to play on the left wing. Last time I checked, Chapman was a right winger and was where he primarily played for us last season. Surely he should be competing for the right side with Conway, Bennett, and Reed (but he should be in CM anyhow and will be gone at end of season).

It's the message it sends as well when you're telling a new signing that he is now going to be competing with a guy that cannot even get into the starting eleven himself (though should be imo). 

[JBiz]

Just now, JacknOry said:

It's confusing as hell for one thing as apparently Chapman is competing for Rothwell to play on the left wing. Last time I checked, Chapman was a right winger and was where he primarily played for us last season. Surely he should be competing for the right side with Conway, Bennett, and Reed (but he should be in CM anyhow and will be gone at end of season).

It's the message it sends as well when you're telling a new signing that he is now going to be competing with a guy that cannot even get into the starting eleven himself (though should be imo). 

I very much doubt the that the players are given instructions via the press!

 

[tomphil]

24 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Well he is, but its for the Bench.

Mowbray has a player pecking order which current form and ability has little to do with.

Pecking order based on player favourites, formation and tactics possibly in that order. 

And the contracts he's handed out.

[DE.]

3 minutes ago, Biz said:

I very much doubt the that the players are given instructions via the press!

 

Well they don't seem to be given them in training either, so we're running out of communication avenues!

[AllRoverAsia]

4 minutes ago, tomphil said:

And the contracts he's handed out.

covered under player favourites ?

[K-Hod]

53 minutes ago, Biz said:

There’s a chance I’m becoming a parody of myself in saying that I genuinely can’t find anything wrong with what TM is saying again...

In fact, the “We want to win a game pretty quickly, and if we can get to a point in the last five or six games then maybe we’ll see some more young players getting an opportunity” is pretty much something I’ve heard you say, others here and at games, and a few other mates who watch.

Oh and for some balance, Rothwell has 29 apps in all competitions to Conway’s 23 and I bet you don’t know who’s statistically made more impact....! 

Right, let me explain.....

He's saying Harry Chapman is behind Joe Rothwell in the pecking order, so that tells me that he musn't think much of Rothwell, if he can't get a start often.....

Or, he musn't think much of Chapman, if he can't even get in ahead of someone that can't get a start often.....

It comes back again to this myth about our wingers not offering enough defensively, when the team doesn't offer enough defensively anyway, as we concede loads of goals.

Why not try a different approach by making the opposition worry about us, instead of bricking it about the opposition? It's clear that the ultra defensive approach isn't working as well as intended (if at all), as we concede loads of goals. 

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by K-Hod

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

There’s a chance I’m becoming a parody of myself in saying that I genuinely can’t find anything wrong with what TM is saying again...

In fact, the “We want to win a game pretty quickly, and if we can get to a point in the last five or six games then maybe we’ll see some more young players getting an opportunity” is pretty much something I’ve heard you say, others here and at games, and a few other mates who watch.

Oh and for some balance, Rothwell has 29 apps in all competitions to Conway’s 23 and I bet you don’t know who’s statistically made more impact....! 

Your theory implying we need a win to get to 50 points before experimenting falls down on a key area. The side hes picking, all of his regulars are not at the moment winning or even drawing football matches. Experimenting is not something that will allow us to blood players but is likely to hinder results as that hypothesis suggests. Changing players, bringing in players like Rothwell, Chapman, Rodwell in midfield these arent total novices nor are they massive risks to utilise, the likes of Bennett, Conway, Smallwood etc are not going to push us forward nor are they doing anything to stop the rot at the moment. Changing the team is not solely to blood them for the future, its to change a losing formula now.

[JBiz]

11 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Right, let me explain.....

He's saying Harry Chapman is behind Joe Rothwell in the pecking order, so that tells me that he musn't think much of Rothwell, if he can't get a start often.....

Or, he musn't think much of Chapman, if he can't even get in ahead of someone that can't get a start often.....

It comes back again to this myth about our wingers not offering enough defensively, when the team doesn't offer enough defensively anyway, as we concede loads of goals.

Why not try a different approach by making the opposition worry about us, instead of bricking it about the opposition? It's clear that the ultra defensive approach isn't working as well as intended (if at all), as we concede loads of goals. 

 

Ultra defensive approach? If we paid more attention to defence, we wouldn’t be conceding so many goals. Tony deserves criticism for aspects of his approach but being too defensive is something I doubt many would say! More organised and resilience is what I think we need to be.

On the original point you made, have arguably 4 players who operate on either flank. Conway, Armstrong, Rothwell and Chapman. From their statistical impact, it’s difficult to argue against Craig and Adam starting - yet its painted here as if the two best aren’t involved.

 

[DE.]

Playing two DM's in Evans & Smallwood is too defensive, especially at home against average/poor clubs. That axis desperately needs to disappear. A shame we signed the pair of them up to new contracts this season. What a waste of money. 

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Your theory implying we need a win to get to 50 points before experimenting falls down on a key area. The side hes picking, all of his regulars are not at the moment winning or even drawing football matches. Experimenting is not something that will allow us to blood players but is likely to hinder results as that hypothesis suggests. Changing players, bringing in players like Rothwell, Chapman, Rodwell in midfield these arent total novices nor are they massive risks to utilise, the likes of Bennett, Conway, Smallwood etc are not going to push us forward nor are they doing anything to stop the rot at the moment. Changing the team is not solely to blood them for the future, its to change a losing formula now.

My theory? You mean the quote from the article right?

 

 

[JBiz]

Just now, DE. said:

Playing two DM's in Evans & Smallwood is too defensive, especially at home against average/poor clubs. That axis desperately needs to disappear. A shame we signed the pair of them up to new contracts this season. What a waste of money. 

Probably true but I guess if the defence isn’t good enough, and the staff feel that way - two more sitting CMs are likely!

I think Travis is potentially the one to make it possible for us to play like TM said earlier in week (1 sitting Cm) if he keeps improving 

[K-Hod]

25 minutes ago, Biz said:

Ultra defensive approach? If we paid more attention to defence, we wouldn’t be conceding so many goals. Tony deserves criticism for aspects of his approach but being too defensive is something I doubt many would say! More organised and resilience is what I think we need to be.

On the original point you made, have arguably 4 players who operate on either flank. Conway, Armstrong, Rothwell and Chapman. From their statistical impact, it’s difficult to argue against Craig and Adam starting - yet its painted here as if the two best aren’t involved.

 

In terms of the players selected! But, I suspect you knew that already.

As DE says, Evans and Smallwood should NOT both be starting, especially at home.

[JBiz]

Just now, K-Hod said:

In terms of the players selected! But, I suspect you knew that already.

As DE says, Evans and Smallwood should NOT both be starting, especially at home.

Suspect I knew what? You say we have a defensive approach, I say if we did, we’d concede less.

Im all for playing Dack deeper or Rothwell next to one sitting midfielder, however not when you’ve got a defence not up to it.

Its a similar simple theory for the wings. Better full backs who make better decisions = less work and responsibility for the wide midfielder in front!

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Chapman is an interesting one.

In his first stint here - he played off the bench for a number of matches - and then picked up a hamstring injury when he was played for full matches.

We know that the medical team are working on strengthening his dodgy hamstrings. Though I hope we see him before the end of the season (even if only on the bench) - can't say I disagree with the wrapping him in cotton wool approach. He was always a high risk purchase - given his injury record - but if we can manage that we will have a brilliant plaer on our hands.

 

[tomphil]

Wasn't Rothwell carrying injuries when he was signed and it took him a long time to get up to speed ?   I see similar in Chapman and being so young I think TM is following his instincts and letting him grow into his body a bit and hopefully grown out of the injuries so after a clear summer of a full pre season he should be useful from the start of next so I can understand this seeing as we've zip all to play for.

Rothwell now he's fit should be starting more and more importantly he should be used in his proper position to bed in for next season.

For me though again it all comes down to not signing players good enough and match ready to straight into the first 11 and stay there if they merit it.  Until that changes we'll continue to see the other approach.

[roversfan99]

28 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Chapman is an interesting one.

In his first stint here - he played off the bench for a number of matches - and then picked up a hamstring injury when he was played for full matches.

We know that the medical team are working on strengthening his dodgy hamstrings. Though I hope we see him before the end of the season (even if only on the bench) - can't say I disagree with the wrapping him in cotton wool approach. He was always a high risk purchase - given his injury record - but if we can manage that we will have a brilliant plaer on our hands.

 

Chapman made only 1 league start, in which he was superb, came off after an hour and was dropped again and injured his hamstring as a sub. He could play an hour surely after numerous 90 minutes for the reserves. Alternatively, a cameo off the bench. Ultimately, the main reason he wont is because Mowbray wants to play those who "know the league" even though theyve spearheaded a woefully inept run.

[frosty]

34 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Wasn't Rothwell carrying injuries when he was signed and it took him a long time to get up to speed ?

Can't remember in terms of pre-season or when he first joined, but I remember being impressed with him when he came off the bench in our first home game against Millwall. 

[K-Hod]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

Suspect I knew what? You say we have a defensive approach, I say if we did, we’d concede less.

Im all for playing Dack deeper or Rothwell next to one sitting midfielder, however not when you’ve got a defence not up to it.

Its a similar simple theory for the wings. Better full backs who make better decisions = less work and responsibility for the wide midfielder in front!

I can't be assed. I know that what I say will make sense in the club tomorrow and so will what you say.....

[DeeCee]

22 hours ago, CD_93 said:

Haven't voted in this one yet. But I will do upon seeing Saturday's teamsheet.

Ditto, I'm at the game tomorrow, I'll make my mind up after that.

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, frosty said:

Can't remember in terms of pre-season or when he first joined, but I remember being impressed with him when he came off the bench in our first home game against Millwall. 

I think the main problem is Mowbray just doesn't fancy players of his type other than impact subs.