Rovers vs Stoke City, 06/04/18, Ewood Park, 3pm Kick Off.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Tom said:

If he was never going to play and Tony thought it important to rest at home rather than watch the game why make him come to the game only to go again, it makes no sense 

Exactly. Driving off before the game. Come on now Tony, pull the other one,there are bells on it. 

Evwn if what Mowbray said about the injury is true, players don't just leave before the game. Does Tony think fans are stupid? 

[Blue blood]

Just now, Stuart said:

I think Mowbray’s position has become untenable but I think we will be safe with 47 points - just.

My bigger issue - although we are not yet mathematically safe - is that I don’t trust Mowbray to address our weaknesses.

Starting with Smallwood and Evans today sums him up. He has talked about loyalty to his team and picking certain players as an excuse for why we are where we are.

Then he carries on doing it...

This is one of the things that really peed me off today. Just why? 

Even if we weren't going on performance levels, enough to give both the heave ho from the team, why did we need 2 defensive mids against a team that had not scored in 4 games? I'm not a big fan of TM worrying about the opposition, but in this case the evidence clearly showed there was nothing even to worry about. Or maybe he was looking longer term and worried about how prior to that spell they'd been one of the strongest teams in the division - hang on that's not true either. There was no reason whatsoever for this combination tactically or based on their performances. 

Also if he knew Dack was out - and I think we all know that was horse manure, but assuming it was true - surely lacking our most creative midfielder (when he can be arsed) suggested again we would need a bit more creativity in the middle. 

Then there's other inexplicable decisions. When our centre back goes off injured (what a surprise) why replace him with the reserve left back not the other centre half?  Why slot Bennett at rb when Bereton came on, rather than keep on a proper full back? Clueless doesn't begin to describe it. 

[Angry_Pirate]

On 06/04/2019 at 18:42, Dan said:

He’s either daft or trolling us at this point. No Rovers fan would have chosen that line up with the squad available. 

100%. Find me just 1 fan that would have picked Bennett, Smallwood and Evans and I'll be gobsmacked.

I like TM as a person, very much so. But he must go. Or at the very least  smarten up rapidly.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Angry_Pirate

[Pedro]

I honesty can't believe that anyone could see effort and desire today.  Rothwell was giving his all, as was Graham. The rest? Walking their way through the match. Half-arsed crosses, mis-placed simple passes useless punts upfield or out of play and no desire to hit Stoke on the break. Stoke were a poor side, we were worse - It was a shocking display.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Pedro

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Stuart said:

I think Mowbray’s position has become untenable but I think we will be safe with 47 points - just.

My bigger issue - although we are not yet mathematically safe - is that I don’t trust Mowbray to address our weaknesses.

Starting with Smallwood and Evans today sums him up. He has talked about loyalty to his team and picking certain players as an excuse for why we are where we are.

Then he carries on doing it...

Stuart, I don't know. I have a bad feeling. We should be OK, but if we lose our next 2, then we are in a position where if other teams pull off results, we could be the ones left stuck in something we have absolutely no stomach for.

I mean Birmingham bet Leeds today and Rotherham bet forest. What's to say there won't be more results like that? 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Husky said:

We won't need another point.

But, regardless, there is the Bolton at home shoe-in, where even Big Ben might score.

There are no " shoe ins " for this team !

[Pedro]

Just now, Stuart said:

*cough* 1 win and 1 draw from 11

Christ, that's shocking.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

There are no " shoe ins " for this team !

He can barely put his shoes on going off his debut which mostly consisted of lace tieing! 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Blue blood said:

This is one of the things that really peed me off today. Just why? 

Even if we weren't going on performance levels, enough to give both the heave ho from the team, why did we need 2 defensive mids against a team that had not scored in 4 games? I'm not a big fan of TM worrying about the opposition, but in this case the evidence clearly showed there was nothing even to worry about. Or maybe he was looking longer term and worried about how prior to that spell they'd been one of the strongest teams in the division - hang on that's not true either. There was no reason whatsoever for this combination tactically or based on their performances. 

Also if he knew Dack was out - and I think we all know that was horse manure, but assuming it was true - surely lacking our most creative midfielder (when he can be arsed) suggested again we would need a bit more creativity in the middle. 

Then there's other inexplicable decisions. When our centre back goes off injured (what a surprise) why replace him with the reserve left back not the other centre half?  Why slot Bennett at rb when Bereton came on, rather than keep on a proper full back? Clueless doesn't begin to describe it. 

That's a very good point, taking off Nyambe so that Brereton can come on instead of just making a straight swap for Bennett is mad. 

[tomphil]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Exactly. Driving off before the game. Come on now Tony, pull the other one,there are bells on it. 

Evwn if what Mowbray said about the injury is true, players don't just leave before the game. Does Tony think fans are stupid? 

He's had it that easy here with the fans yes I think he does.

The lengths he's going to now to explain this bullshit it's like he knows he spinning it but he's trying to convince himself as well as everyone else.  Worrying traits developed in him the last couple of months he's going more Coyle like as time goes on but I think like all managers do he's just covering his own arse at the end of the day.

[matt83]

We’ll be massacred by Norwich, derby and probably forest. Beaten by Swansea. Leaving qpr and Bolton to get points. As for Dack being at the ground, getting injured and then going home. Let’s say I believe that course of events it’s a poor show he didn’t stop around to watch his teammates being there already. But of course we know it’s bollocks

[Stuart]

Just now, DaveyB said:

Lee Johnson at Bristol City 2 years ago - a very similar situation to us, newly promoted, started the season very well and then went on a horrible run over about 15 games, only just staying up (at our expense) after looking like playoff contenders at one point. 

Lots of calls for him to be sacked by their fans, but the club stuck with him and they’ve improved each season and I imagine their fans are now glad they didn’t get what they were calling for. 

Let’s hope that in a couple of years we’re looking back on this current run in a similar way

Johnson was a 35yo manager learning his trade. Mowbray is hugely experienced. A very different situation.

If Mowbray is still here in 2 years we will be a struggling League One side.

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, philipl said:

Brilliant from Raya- credit where credit is due; he produced two of the saves of the season.

A defeat created by Mowbray's selection and confirmed by Mowbray's tactics.

 

I take it you've now recovered from the Maltese sun and agree that Mowbray is dire and needs to go now!?

[Blue blood]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Stuart, I don't know. I have a bad feeling. We should be OK, but if we lose our next 2, then we are in a position where if other teams pull off results, we could be the ones left stuck in something we have absolutely no stomach for.

I mean Birmingham bet Leeds today and Rotherham bet forest. What's to say there won't be more results like that? 

Answered in another thread but all 3 teams getting 3 wins from 6 and QPR rectifying their abysmal form isn't likely to happen.  

Just this week QPR play Millwall - both teams can't win and Reading play Norwich - very unlikely for a slip up, giving us another game's grace. The fight for the playoffs is also still pretty fierce which suggests (albeit no guarantee) that when the teams below us face teams fighting for the playoffs there's less chance of complacency/players being rested or a Huddersfield situation. 

I just can't see it, even if we are trying to claw ourselves into the relegation mix - we're going to fail at that too. 

 

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Stuart said:

I think Mowbray’s position has become untenable but I think we will be safe with 47 points - just.

My bigger issue - although we are not yet mathematically safe - is that I don’t trust Mowbray to address our weaknesses.

Starting with Smallwood and Evans today sums him up. He has talked about loyalty to his team and picking certain players as an excuse for why we are where we are.

Then he carries on doing it...

Spot on Stuart. This is why I don't trust TM to make many or any of the necessary changes in summer. If he was serious about making changes then you'd have thought the planning for next season would already have started, younger players would have had their chance and the obvious culprits would be being phased out.

There's absolutely no point in persisting (and losing) with the same old faces week after week after week.

Unless of course, they are actually still very much part of your plans for next season.

[Stuart]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Stuart, I don't know. I have a bad feeling. We should be OK, but if we lose our next 2, then we are in a position where if other teams pull off results, we could be the ones left stuck in something we have absolutely no stomach for.

I mean Birmingham bet Leeds today and Rotherham bet forest. What's to say there won't be more results like that? 

If we go down from here we will deserve to.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Blue blood said:

Answered in another thread but all 3 teams getting 3 wins from 6 and QPR rectifying their abysmal form isn't likely to happen.  

Just this week QPR play Millwall - both teams can't win and Reading play Norwich - very unlikely for a slip up, giving us another game's grace. The fight for the playoffs is also still pretty fierce which suggests (albeit no guarantee) that when the teams below us face teams fighting for the playoffs there's less chance of complacency/players being rested or a Huddersfield situation. 

I just can't see it, even if we are trying to claw ourselves into the relegation mix - we're going to fail at that too. 

 

But you never know. If the next two results go against us and we are in real touching distance do you see us having the stomach to do enough? 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Stuart said:

If we go down from here we will deserve to.

Indeed, but I don't think we would recover from that 

[DE.]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

But you never know. If the next two results go against us and we are in real touching distance do you see us having the stomach to do enough? 

If we get into a relegation scrap we will go down. Neither the manager nor the players have it in them to win that kind of fight.

Fortunately I don't see it happening this season. Too many terrible teams below us. 

Next season though? We're in huge trouble if Mowbray is still manager. He will relegate us.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, DE. said:

If we get into a relegation scrap we will go down. Neither the manager nor the players have it in them to win that kind of fight.

Fortunately I don't see it happening this season. Too many terrible teams below us. 

Next season though? We're in huge trouble if Mowbray is still manager. He will relegate us.

More than likely and 100% he won't get us promoted. Absolutely no way 

Edited April 6, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Blue blood]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

But you never know. If the next two results go against us and we are in real touching distance do you see us having the stomach to do enough? 

Not at all. happily I don't see the other teams having enough stomach or ability to do enough either. 

Let's take the next 2 games: Norwich to lose at home to Reading and Villa lose away at Rotherham - very unlikely one or both happens. Plus both Millwall and QPR cannot both get 3 points. Worst case scenario is Millwall get within 4 points of us, but that means QPR are still below us and on an equally appalling run.In short can't see this round of fixtures throwing up a ton of problems.  

The week after I grant you the next round of fixtures (on the 14th) could go against us, but again Brentford and Sheff Utd are both good teams, and the chances of both slipping up isn't exactly massive. Add in that Stoke dispatched us today so may be ok against relegation candidates. None of these are bankers that the relegation teams are going to win, and again the chances of all 4 of the relegation candidate teams getting those wins aren't great. They're near the relegation zone because they haven't won many of these matches. 

Honestly I don't think in two games time we'll be in a much worse off position than we are now. 

[DaveyB]

Just now, Stuart said:

Johnson was a 35yo manager learning his trade. Mowbray is hugely experienced. A very different situation.

If Mowbray is still here in 2 years we will be a struggling League One side.

I’m not saying that it is an identical situation, just countering the often made argument that no other manager has ever kept their job in the midst of a similar bad run and also giving an example to show that this run doesn’t automatically have to lead to a struggle next season. 

I’m not saying that we will definitely improve ala Bristol City because there are no guarantees. Just as it is not certain that your prediction that we would find ourselves in league one under Mowbray is accurate. Football is unpredictable - if it wasn’t then I’d currently be counting my winnings from my treble on Bristol City, West Brom & Luton!!

[Stuart]

Just now, DaveyB said:

I’m not saying that it is an identical situation, just countering the often made argument that no other manager has ever kept their job in the midst of a similar bad run and also giving an example to show that this run doesn’t automatically have to lead to a struggle next season. 

I’m not saying that we will definitely improve ala Bristol City because there are no guarantees. Just as it is not certain that your prediction that we would find ourselves in league one under Mowbray is accurate. Football is unpredictable - if it wasn’t then I’d currently be counting my winnings from my treble on Bristol City, West Brom & Luton!!

Managers have life spans at certain levels.

Johnson is at the start of his, Mowbray is coming to the end, despite him being younger than he looks!

I’d be inclined to give longer to Damian Johnson in a similar situation than Mowbray, having see what type of football both of them try to play. D Johnson has more of a defined style than Mowbray does that’s for sure.

[Stuart]

Why lie?

“Bradley walked off training on Thursday feeling his hamstring," Mowbray added.

"Experience tells me that he can’t say his hamstring is 100% only two days later.

“We wanted to give him some treatment and time to make sure that the first time he sprints in a game he pulls up and misses the rest of the season.

“We shouldn’t risk him and that was what we went for."

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2019/april/boss-offers-mulgrew-and-dack-injury-update/

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, Husky said:

The only thing I find hard to understand about today is that today's loss seems to have finally tipped the balance (for some posters) as far as Mowbray is concerned.

But there was nothing worse today than we've seen for the entire 2nd part of the season. In fact it was not even close to some of the utter crap we saw some months ago.

As one of those posters, it's fairly simple. It's one poor result too many. Too long of him being unable to see the glaring errors and correct them.

Everybody has their own breaking point, this was mine. It isn't really the performance, it's the result. I said before the game, days ago, in the Mowbray stay or go thread that a defeat today would be the final straw for me. I'm not being reactionary, it's all perfectly measured. Obviously, I've been concerned for quite a while now, then very concerned, and questioned decisions/tactics etc throughout his reign, but I've just given him the amount of time I personally thought he'd earned to turn it around. Factoring in the terror that Venkys next potential appointment leaves me with.

If yours was expended a while ago, fair enough, I can see why