Rovers away at QPR - Good Friday 19th April 2019

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

Totally agree.  Let' be honest, BRFCS is just a small group of folk talking about football - as we did in the pub in years gone by.  Nobody's opinion really matters in the great scheme of things, particularly as there are a wide variety of opinions on most subjects.  The forum is simply a medium for discussing football but nobody would seriously suggest that anyone actually takes any real notice of it or allows the forum to colour their own views and opinions.  Football is a game of opinions and that's part of its attraction.  We all think we can run it better than those who do but in truth I doubt we could come anywhere close to making a decent stab at it.    

The overwhelming majority of clubs are run by professionals for whom football is their day job and in general most clubs cope with the ever increasing difficulties that the modern game presents them.  At the moment I would put the Rovers in that class of clubs who, for the most part, are now back on track and fairly well run - although I know many would disagree but ultimately none of us have any real say in how clubs are run.  Those employed to make decisions about the running of the club make decisions in what they feel are the best interests of the club and the team and the ultimate judge of those decisions are the owners of a particular club not those on forums.  

There are differing views on the manager but he certainly hasn't come anywhere close to losing the support of the fans outside this forum - I certainly haven't heard anyone at games shouting for a change of manager, far from it the fans seem right behind him.  Of course we all have differing views on players, style of play etc, but supporters have always had those debates - I go back to the early days of Jack Marshall and nothing has changed in that regard.

The forum is just a bit of fun but one or two seem to treat it rather more seriously for some reason.

I'd love to agree with you Parson but as long as we're owned by the Chicken Chokers we'll never be " back on track and fairly well run ". We're only one more idiotic decision away from disaster. The Brererton saga is just one example of their behind the scenes interference in my opinion.

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, Parsonblue said:

Totally agree.  Let' be honest, BRFCS is just a small group of folk talking about football - as we did in the pub in years gone by.  Nobody's opinion really matters in the great scheme of things, particularly as there are a wide variety of opinions on most subjects.  The forum is simply a medium for discussing football but nobody would seriously suggest that anyone actually takes any real notice of it or allows the forum to colour their own views and opinions.  Football is a game of opinions and that's part of its attraction.  We all think we can run it better than those who do but in truth I doubt we could come anywhere close to making a decent stab at it.    

The overwhelming majority of clubs are run by professionals for whom football is their day job and in general most clubs cope with the ever increasing difficulties that the modern game presents them.  At the moment I would put the Rovers in that class of clubs who, for the most part, are now back on track and fairly well run - although I know many would disagree but ultimately none of us have any real say in how clubs are run.  Those employed to make decisions about the running of the club make decisions in what they feel are the best interests of the club and the team and the ultimate judge of those decisions are the owners of a particular club not those on forums.  

There are differing views on the manager but he certainly hasn't come anywhere close to losing the support of the fans outside this forum - I certainly haven't heard anyone at games shouting for a change of manager, far from it the fans seem right behind him.  Of course we all have differing views on players, style of play etc, but supporters have always had those debates - I go back to the early days of Jack Marshall and nothing has changed in that regard.

The forum is just a bit of fun but one or two seem to treat it rather more seriously for some reason.

I suppose to be taken seriously, or have your opinion taken seriously, you'd have to be a published historian on our great club, and not just a pleb on a forum. What do you reckon? 

[47er]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

Totally agree.  Let' be honest, BRFCS is just a small group of folk talking about football - as we did in the pub in years gone by.  Nobody's opinion really matters in the great scheme of things, particularly as there are a wide variety of opinions on most subjects.  The forum is simply a medium for discussing football but nobody would seriously suggest that anyone actually takes any real notice of it or allows the forum to colour their own views and opinions.  Football is a game of opinions and that's part of its attraction.  We all think we can run it better than those who do but in truth I doubt we could come anywhere close to making a decent stab at it.   

Don't tell me you're losing it as well PB. I agree with what you've said above as well. I'd suppose everybody does. But you're totally agreeing with someone who is saying that I'm claiming that "a handful of posters can influence a manager in his decision-making". At least I think he is. I haven't said that, I haven't implied it, I've never seen any one else  post that.

I've asked him what he's on about and I'm awaiting his reply. When he does you'll know what you're totally agreeing with.

Edited April 21, 2019 by 47er
typo

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I suppose to be taken seriously, or have your opinion taken seriously, you'd have to be a published historian on our great club, and not just a pleb on a forum. What do you reckon? 

Don't be so sensitive.

[47er]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I suppose to be taken seriously, or have your opinion taken seriously, you'd have to be a published historian on our great club, and not just a pleb on a forum. What do you reckon? 

 

8 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

 I go back to the early days of Jack Marshall and nothing has changed in that regard.

 

I go back further----so what?

[SBlue]

4 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Totally agree.  Let' be honest, BRFCS is just a small group of folk talking about football - as we did in the pub in years gone by.  Nobody's opinion really matters in the great scheme of things, particularly as there are a wide variety of opinions on most subjects.  The forum is simply a medium for discussing football but nobody would seriously suggest that anyone actually takes any real notice of it or allows the forum to colour their own views and opinions.  Football is a game of opinions and that's part of its attraction.  We all think we can run it better than those who do but in truth I doubt we could come anywhere close to making a decent stab at it.    

The overwhelming majority of clubs are run by professionals for whom football is their day job and in general most clubs cope with the ever increasing difficulties that the modern game presents them.  At the moment I would put the Rovers in that class of clubs who, for the most part, are now back on track and fairly well run - although I know many would disagree but ultimately none of us have any real say in how clubs are run.  Those employed to make decisions about the running of the club make decisions in what they feel are the best interests of the club and the team and the ultimate judge of those decisions are the owners of a particular club not those on forums.  

There are differing views on the manager but he certainly hasn't come anywhere close to losing the support of the fans outside this forum - I certainly haven't heard anyone at games shouting for a change of manager, far from it the fans seem right behind him.  Of course we all have differing views on players, style of play etc, but supporters have always had those debates - I go back to the early days of Jack Marshall and nothing has changed in that regard.

The forum is just a bit of fun but one or two seem to treat it rather more seriously for some reason.

I think it’s in the nature of social media rather than real life where debates and opinions become so polarised. I find the whole thing fascinating.

Logging on here and seeing opinions you disagree with, leads you to passionately verbalise your own and dissect the counter argument. Without having to be polite and with relative anonymity.

But no one ever really changes their mind through persuasion or debate - we just try and explain further our side and become dumbfounded when the other party doesn’t agree - you’ve explained it as simply as possible are they stupid?!!!

Rinse and repeat this process for months and years and both sides of a debate have been banging their well considered drums for so long that it becomes “us vs them”, black and white and quite vitriolic and illogical.

Even leading to things like hypothesising an imaginary conversation between a midfielder and the manager to project the failings you’ve perceived, or me trying to use every time Ben Brereton doesn’t fall over as proof that he’s the white Pele.

 

The truth or heart of the matter is usually somewhere in the middle!

 

 

 

 

But Smallwood would have scored that @BankEnd Rover ARE YOU BLUMMIN DAFT???

 

[JBiz]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I'd love to agree with you Parson but as long as we're owned by the Chicken Chokers we'll never be " back on track and fairly well run ". We're only one more idiotic decision away from disaster. The Brererton saga is just one example of their behind the scenes interference in my opinion.

So what are Dack and Rothwell examples of? Better management and scouting behind the scenes?

I can fully understand why people would point out mistakes that tally with the poor owner situation - but balance surely involves both the bad and the good?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Biz said:

So what are Dack and Rothwell examples of? Better management and scouting behind the scenes?

I can fully understand why people would point out mistakes that tally with the poor owner situation - but balance surely involves both the bad and the good?

Apart from signing the cheques every month what good have they actually done ?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, deryck guyler's spoon said:

Don't be so sensitive.

Touché 

[DE.]

Just now, Biz said:

So what are Dack and Rothwell examples of? Better management and scouting behind the scenes?

I can fully understand why people would point out mistakes that tally with the poor owner situation - but balance surely involves both the bad and the good?

We brought in the likes of Rhodes, Duffy, King, Cairney and Conway (when he was good) during GB's reign so I don't necessarily think bringing in decent young players is a new development. Since Kean departed the main issue has always been Venky's going cheap on the management position. It was also an issue when Kean was here, but the main problem then was the fact they let a third-party agent literally take control of the club.

[tomphil]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Apart from signing the cheques every month what good have they actually done ?

Naff  all but they'll not realise it because they'll probably see that signing of cheques every month as an act of great generosity.

There's an acceptance of where and what we are now which can be viewed both good and bad I suppose.

One thing I will give them credit for though is holding their nerve with the Academy i'm sure there's been the odd bits of 'advice' about shutting or cutting that since they trooped up. Could well turn out to be the only saving grace of their era if they continue to treat it with importance.

Edited April 21, 2019 by tomphil

[OldEwoodBlue]

Just now, Biz said:

So what are Dack and Rothwell examples of? Better management and scouting behind the scenes?

I can fully understand why people would point out mistakes that tally with the poor owner situation - but balance surely involves both the bad and the good?

Brereton isn't the first bum we have signed and he won't be the last. Just ask Kevin Davies. Some signings work out... some don't.

Signing a bum for £7m when we haven't got a pot to piss in when we needed a new first team of Championship quality players - Poor management 

[roversfan99]

31 minutes ago, Biz said:

So what are Dack and Rothwell examples of? Better management and scouting behind the scenes?

I can fully understand why people would point out mistakes that tally with the poor owner situation - but balance surely involves both the bad and the good?

Dack is very much a widely received and undoubted massive success story, something Mowbray has universally been credited for. Unbelievable value for the price we paid and worth over 10 times that amount now.

Rothwell is in the middle, a player with undoubted ability but only just establishing himself in the team and with very few goal contributions this season as a result. So with him, theres credit for finding a seemingly talented player coupled with question marks about how he has been used.

Brereton is one deal that at this moment cannot really be justified but one that you have defended ad nauseam so surely your last sentence also should apply to yourself?

[JBiz]

15 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Brereton isn't the first bum we have signed and he won't be the last. Just ask Kevin Davies. Some signings work out... some don't.

Signing a bum for £7m when we haven't got a pot to piss in when we needed a new first team of Championship quality players - Poor management 

I don’t get your point?

Was signing Rothwell, Armstrong, Reed et al poor management too?

My point remains - people focus on stuff to criticise. It’s easy. Balance says many decisions are good too - but carry on ignoring those! 

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

Totally agree.  Let' be honest, BRFCS is just a small group of folk talking about football - as we did in the pub in years gone by.  Nobody's opinion really matters in the great scheme of things, particularly as there are a wide variety of opinions on most subjects.  The forum is simply a medium for discussing football but nobody would seriously suggest that anyone actually takes any real notice of it or allows the forum to colour their own views and opinions.  Football is a game of opinions and that's part of its attraction.  We all think we can run it better than those who do but in truth I doubt we could come anywhere close to making a decent stab at it.    

The overwhelming majority of clubs are run by professionals for whom football is their day job and in general most clubs cope with the ever increasing difficulties that the modern game presents them.  At the moment I would put the Rovers in that class of clubs who, for the most part, are now back on track and fairly well run - although I know many would disagree but ultimately none of us have any real say in how clubs are run.  Those employed to make decisions about the running of the club make decisions in what they feel are the best interests of the club and the team and the ultimate judge of those decisions are the owners of a particular club not those on forums.  

There are differing views on the manager but he certainly hasn't come anywhere close to losing the support of the fans outside this forum - I certainly haven't heard anyone at games shouting for a change of manager, far from it the fans seem right behind him.  Of course we all have differing views on players, style of play etc, but supporters have always had those debates - I go back to the early days of Jack Marshall and nothing has changed in that regard.

The forum is just a bit of fun but one or two seem to treat it rather more seriously for some reason.

Best post I’ve read for a while. Cheers.

[JBiz]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Brereton is one deal that at this moment cannot really be justified but one that you have defended ad nauseam so surely your last sentence also should apply to yourself?

Signing a 19 year old striker when you need players in that position is unjustifiable? 

You’re making my point fantastically though. In two years the squad overall has been excellent yet many would only focus on Brereton because (at this time) its a poor signing.

I haven’t made my mind up yet - and you keep nastily bringing back up “defending” when I merely said (in October/November) its too early to judge.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Biz said:

Signing a 19 year old striker when you need players in that position is unjustifiable? 

You’re making my point fantastically though. In two years the squad overall has been excellent yet many would only focus on Brereton because (at this time) its a poor signing.

I haven’t made my mind up yet - and you keep nastily bringing back up “defending” when I merely said (in October/November) its too early to judge.

The reason Brereton courts far more debate than say Dack is because there is no debate to be had about Dack, every single person on this messageboard would agree that hes been superb signing. 

At this point in time, Brereton has not shown any signs of being a competent striker and as a result, is at this time an undeniably terrible signing.

[OldEwoodBlue]

Just now, Biz said:

I don’t get your point?

Was signing Rothwell, Armstrong, Reed et al poor management too?

My point remains - people focus on stuff to criticise. It’s easy. Balance says many decisions are good too - but carry on ignoring those! 

well I agree that some signings he has made have done ok and some haven't. Same applies to every manager of every club.

Not good or poor management. Part and parcel of the game.

 

But in terms of risk and value for money, you are using the word balance but £7m for a dud (in our situation) is not balanced management.

5 players for £7m total, where 1 or 2 turn out to be duds would be balanced. (at our current Championship level)

or 1 dud player for £7m where we spent £25m on 5 players and the others worked out OK would be balanced (at PL level)

 

[tonygreenbank]

4 hours ago, 47er said:

What on earth are you talking about? Credit for what? If you're talking about the performance of the team, the manager takes the credit  when he's done well----of course!

If he hasn't, the manager takes the criticism. I don't know why anyone should have to explain that  since its been the way at every club, with every set of fans since football was invented.

Finally please tell us who is claiming that a "handful of posters can influence a professional manager in his decision-making" I've never seen it  on here with reference to Mowbray and I'm at a loss as to what you are on about.

You called me arrogant for listing a series of issues that many fans have had with Mowbray's managership all season. Once again I have no idea why.

I think you should explain.

 

On page 15 of this thread you said that Mowbray had made some bewildering decisions with regards to his management and that you and certain others have been highlighting these whilst the manager continued to make wrong decisions.

You then claimed that as the manager did make changes then these were attributed to your knowledge of the game.

Thus calling into question his professionalism and that members of this messageboard somehow knew more about the game than he did.

Hence my use of the term arrogant.

I am quite happy to let Mowbray get on with his job but I don’t like to read on this board the seemingly random criticism of his actions without any basis in fact.

I apologise to you for the use of the term arrogant as it wasn’t directed at you personally but at the way this messageboard has gone in recent years.

 

 

[Parsonblue]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

I suppose to be taken seriously, or have your opinion taken seriously, you'd have to be a published historian on our great club, and not just a pleb on a forum. What do you reckon? 

I reckon you need to get out more if you think anyone takes social media seriously!  It's a forum, it's meant to be a bit of fun!

[JBiz]

Just now, OldEwoodBlue said:

well I agree that some signings he has made have done ok and some haven't. Same applies to every manager of every club.

Not good or poor management. Part and parcel of the game.

 

But in terms of risk and value for money, you are using the word balance but £7m for a dud (in our situation) is not balanced management.

5 players for £7m total, where 1 or 2 turn out to be duds would be balanced. (at our current Championship level)

or 1 dud player for £7m where we spent £25m on 5 players and the others worked out OK would be balanced (at PL level)

 

The highlighted part is pretty much what happened, just it’s heavily criticised because the main part of the budget is for one of the “duds”.

 

[joey_big_nose]

I'd say Mowbrays started winning again at the right time and the teams started looking quite promising for next year. Think towards the end of March the fans were starting to turn but three wins on the bounce creates a totally different feel.

We're pretty well stocked in midfield now so he needs to focus on making us stronger at gk, full back, centre back and centre forward. If we can do that and hold onto the likes of Dack, Lenihan and Rothwell we will have a decent stab at top half / playoffs.

Edit - one issue is if we have an absolutely sensational last few games and rack up the wins then we might see more interest in our top players. Kind of want us to have a good end to season but not too good ..

Edited April 21, 2019 by joey_big_nose

[SBlue]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

We're pretty well stocked in midfield now 

Dream business for me would be to realise some kind of fee for Evans and put it into a Reed replacement.

CM is still weak if that joker is in our best 11.

[joey_big_nose]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

Dream business for me would be to realise some kind of fee for Evans and put it into a Reed replacement.

CM is still weak if that joker is in our best 11.

Well, we have Davenport and Buckley in reserves, plus may sign Rodwell. But I agree if we could sign Reed or someone of similar quality I would not say no.

[47er]

9 minutes ago, tonygreenbank said:

On page 15 of this thread you said that Mowbray had made some bewildering decisions with regards to his management and that you and certain others have been highlighting these whilst the manager continued to make wrong decisions.

You then claimed that as the manager did make changes then these were attributed to your knowledge of the game.

Thus calling into question his professionalism and that members of this messageboard somehow knew more about the game than he did.

Hence my use of the term arrogant.

I am quite happy to let Mowbray get on with his job but I don’t like to read on this board the seemingly random criticism of his actions without any basis in fact.

I apologise to you for the use of the term arrogant as it wasn’t directed at you personally but at the way this messageboard has gone in recent years.

 

 

Here's the post in full. Now please tell me where your sentence in bold appears anywhere in it.

"In reality, people simply think that Mowbray could have done a lot better with what he has. Clearly that does not equate to thinking we could do a better job!

But for someone with such experience he has made some bewildering decisions. Can you explain them?

Fans on here have pleaded with him to play Travis and Reed in the middle together, warned him against moving Downing on without signing a replacement, continually told him Evans/Smallwood were not a viable pairing, expressed astonishment that Rothwell was continually left out, begged him to stop playing players out of position, and suggested that changing the team every game was not helping us. Fans on here have also specifically pointed to lack of spending on defence and, surprise, we have shipped goals by the bucket-load.

Perhaps the core of BRFC posters aren't as daft as you seem to think."

 

 

 I never said any such thing did I? nor do I believe it to be true. So what follows isn't true either as I therefore did not call into question his professionalism and certainly have never said nor implied that I or any member of the MB knows more about the game than him.

I'm telling the truth aren't !? Then do the decent thing and apologise.

All I have done is to highlight some issues on which I and plenty of fans agree he's got wrong. These are not random and they are factually correct.

What you have done is to project your prejudices onto my post and read something that wasn't there.

As for two  liking your post when you've got it totally wrong, nothing surprises me there.

I appreciate the apology for the personal remark and thank you for it. However I'd sooner have the bigger issue cleared up. I did not remotely say what you claim and, sadly, this is the way the message board has gone in recent years. Not just others to blame for that is it?

Edited April 21, 2019 by 47er
toned it down!