Norwich - tempting fate

[philipl]

Was pleased to see Mowbray told them to keep playing it out from the back. We held possession  pretty well second half against a team that presses high up the field like a Premier League outfit.

Norwich need a keeper and Premier League quality defenders if they are to stay up.

Pukki could be a one season wonder as well.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

This season Norwich have employed a high press which has allowed their full backs to overlap but next season the likes of Sterling will have a field day playing in behind the full backs. There were times last night when Bell and Bennett were playing as wingers there were that much space but what should up was their in ability to do anything with the ball. Usually when their names were mentioned on the ball the next name mentioned was a Norwich one.

Higginbottom comentating on Sky was going on about what Bereton brought to the team as sub but you need someone quick to run the channels from centre. Armstrong is wasted on the wing if we are going to play this he needs to be more central to stretch the central defenders and pull them out of position. We musy be only team that field field 4 wingers in Bennett, Conway, Chapman and Rothwell and still play a player out of position in a wide position 

[Paul]

3 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Farke is on a good run. He will get exposed in the PL with that team who will be relegated next season. Unless they invest very heavily to try to stay up. Same goes for Sheffield United.

I like both SU and Norwich so good luck to them but they are in for a torrid time next season as I believe both will try to build up their Bank balances.

Very much agree with this and, sadly, for most clubs it is the sensible way to approach the PL. Should Rovers get promoted I'm sure we would take a similar view, spend a little and bank/pay off Venkys with the balance.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Paul said:

Very much agree with this and, sadly, for most clubs it is the sensible way to approach the PL. Should Rovers get promoted I'm sure we would take a similar view, spend a little and bank/pay off Venkys with the balance.

Yes a sensible approach which Burnley have proven successful at over a number of years. Fulham the latest example of being promoted and getting it wrong.

[arbitro]

Another slow start, couldn't keep the ball and two down early on. Travis scored with our only shot on target. In reality we could have lost by five as Norwich were quicker and more incisive all over the pitch. I believe we are currently light years away from emulating the likes of Norwich. In my opinion they were considerably better than us in nine positions and probably have consistently been over the course of the season. Williams was again our best player and Dack by far our worst. He is in danger of becoming an enigma and I really wouldn't have too many issues selling him although his stock has dropped considerably in the second half of the season. 

This summer is huge, make or break in many respects but in my view unless there is successful major surgery we will be in a dogfight.

From afar last night Mowbray appeared subdued. We weren't aware he was on the bench until close to the end of the first half and even in after the break Venus appeared to be doing most of the coaching. Maybe he has air miles on his mind as he thinks about his Indian and scouting trips.

[Stuart]

8 hours ago, DE. said:

Come on now, those first 25 minutes were terrible to watch. We were being ripped apart time after time and had already allowed them 13 shots by the 27th minute. We were very fortunate for the score to be 2-1 and to still have eleven men on the pitch. Norwich play very well but the opening to the game was completely unacceptable. 

After that we did improve, and we looked better once Norwich dropped the intensity in the second half. They still could have scored another couple if they had been more clinical, though, whereas we only had one shot on target the entire match so even when we were playing better we were never going to score again. The end of the game was particularly frustrating as we dawdled around their penalty box with no attacking threat whatsoever. I don't think Norwich felt we were a serious threat which is why they dropped off a bit in the second half and moved to control the game rather than force themselves on us as they did in the first half. Some of our better players had absolute stinkers which didn't help. Dack was terrible. Lenihan was lacking composure. Travis seemed overwhelmed at times. Graham didn't get into the game at all. Armstrong also struggled to really make a mark. 

The difference in class was very clear and I think the scoreline flatters us a bit. We were second best for much of the match and got absolutely mauled in the opening stages which on another day could have put Norwich out of sight before half time. There's a lot to digest from tonight. It's not all bad - another good game from Williams, a few good moves when we got the ball down and an improved second half means it wasn't all doom and gloom. Still a lot to work on though and hopefully Mowbray will study the differences between the likes of us and Norwich.

I don't think we're a million miles away - we're actually in a similar position to where Norwich were last season in many ways.

14	Norwich City	46	15	15	16	49	60	−11	60

14	Blackburn Rovers	45	16	11	18	62	67	−5	59

The question is whether Mowbray can do what Farke did and transform the club in the summer to be a real force. Norwich have shown it can be done.

According to Farke and Webber, they had a two day inquest into what went so wrong that they ended up 14th, in order to put it right.

We seem to think 14th is good at this stage. It could be another two years before we have that kind of epiphany. Farke also paid tribute to the huge contribution made by his Sporting Director. We don’t even have one.

Our philosophy is loyalty to players who are out of their depth, giving them every chance to impress. This just means that in a season where every game is important we write of certain ones because “it’s only fair”. Why are we playing Leutweiler at this stage for instance? He’s leaving.

As a club we have got it backwards, we are ruthless with skint, loyal fans and sympathetic towards rich, inadequate players.

[BankEnd Rover]

9 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Let's not kid ourselves, first half we got a real football lesson. They were quicker, more incisive, more physical, more aggressive on and off the ball than we were. On another night we could have easily gone in 4 or 5-1 down. We gave them the usual Rovers first 20 minutes half hearted performance and they took full advantage of it. Second half they took their foot off the gas and were content to let us have the ball from about 60 minutes onwards. They knew we had no real goal threat.

We were watching modern possession football were there is an end product at the end of the passing moves to our stone age football were we pass it around until we lose possession. The difference in coaching methods stood out like a sore thumb.

Scores -

Leut 6 made some good saves but got caught on his line for the first goal, second one was the fault of whoever let their guy have a free shot at goal, Travis or Rodwell ?

 

Bennett 5 not a right back in a million years, that " cross " in the second half will live long in my memory !

Lenihan 6 did ok apart from the moment he dreamed he was Franz Beckenbaur and attempted a chest trap on the turn when all he had to do was head the bloody thing.

Williams 7* our best on the night and did his best to keep Pukki quiet.

Bell 6 I've seen him play worse. Not a winger and not a full back, why we signed him is a bit of a mystery. As was what he thought he was doing with that second half clearance.

 

Armstrong 5 not physical enough for me, if he's up against a lad equally quick he's got no plan B.

Rodwell 5 not the answer to the defensive midfield role, not anything like mobile enough and too easily bypassed.

Travis 6 kept going even when things weren't going his way. Got a nice goal but I thought their keeper should have done better.

Rothwell 6 poor in the first half but improved once he moved into a more central position in the second half.

 

Dack 4 abysmal, best summed up by that second half free kick. If they'd have put another set of goals on top of the existing goals it would have still missed by a mile. Looked like a pub player tonight.

Graham 4 did he touch the ball ? On his holidays already.

Subs

Brereton 4 ineffectual, compare his work rate with Pukki's.

Conway 4 did nothing of value. 

Chapman 6 did more in 15 minutes out wide than Conway and Rothwell did in the whole game. Should have been on before Conway.

 

That's spot on about armstong. My feedback on him for most of the season. On his day which isn't frequent enough he can be outstanding! But when he's met his match he's blummin awful and very frustrating!

[Stuart]

26 minutes ago, Paul said:

Very much agree with this and, sadly, for most clubs it is the sensible way to approach the PL. Should Rovers get promoted I'm sure we would take a similar view, spend a little and bank/pay off Venkys with the balance.

It will be interesting to see what happens If we were to get our shot at promotion under Venkys. We don’t seem to have paid off any debt up to now, even when we sold Rhodes and didn’t reinvest.

[philipl]

30 minutes ago, Paul said:

Very much agree with this and, sadly, for most clubs it is the sensible way to approach the PL. Should Rovers get promoted I'm sure we would take a similar view, spend a little and bank/pay off Venkys with the balance.

I have no idea what Venky's would do- they are so unpredictable. 

Any other owner of Rovers inevitably would do this though. 

[philipl]

Just now, Stuart said:

It will be interesting to see what happens If we were to get our shot at promotion under Venkys. We don’t seem to have paid off any debt up to now, even when we sold Rhodes and didn’t reinvest.

Very obvious from the accounts.

Sales of players simply make overall debts smaller than they otherwise would have been.

 

 

[Paul]

23 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Yes a sensible approach which Burnley have proven successful at over a number of years. Fulham the latest example of being promoted and getting it wrong.

Exactly the example I had in mind.

[RV Blue]

Last night showed just how far away we are from a team that are good enough to go up.

Mowbray said that his aim next season is promotion, I’m saying now that we’ve got no chance.

[Paul]

Just now, philipl said:

I have no idea what Venky's would do- they are so unpredictable. 

Any other owner of Rovers inevitably would do this though. 

My own feeling is they will look to get their "investment" back. It seems to me there are two ways to achieve this:

Take a big chunk out and if we are relegated continue to take cash from the parachute payments.

Invest sufficiently to stay up, perhaps 30-40% of cash, take a debt repayment, use the PL kudos for marketing purposes and repeat till the debt is paid.

Burnley are a good example to follow and there is no logic to putting Rovers in debt.

[BankEnd Rover]

Just now, RV Blue said:

Last night showed just how far away we are from a team that are good enough to go up.

Mowbray said that his aim next season is promotion, I’m saying now that we’ve got no chance.

That's rubbish sorry! Although I partly agree with you. You can't make your judgements on next season based on last nights performance. Look at when derby came to ewood - We hammered them, they were particularly poor, one of the worst to come to ewood...Look now, they are on the brink of playoffs!

With the right transfers and the correct players playing in the correct positions with consistency from the manager I feel we can challenge the top 6!

[Ewood Ace]

A terrible performance in which 2-1 flattered us. I'd  have hoped that we would be looking ahead to next season now yet we put Bennett back in at full back, it's bad enough that he's on the pitch but even worse when at full back. We have Conway coming on who surely won't be here next season. Rodwell didn't show much in the midfield role to earn a new contract he's not mobile enough, hope to see Davenport given ago next week. The only player to come out of the game with any credit was Leutwiler because without him it could have been 5 or 6.

[Atko's Engine]

We were outclassed last night no doubt, they ought to have been 4 up after 20 mins & we should've been down to 10 men. But credit where it's due, we got one back quickly and I think that contributed to them reining in their ambition for the remainder of the game.

On that performance alone we're miles off Norwich, but one performance doesn't tell the whole story. Half our team was out of sorts yesterday as opposed to the usual 2 or 3, and as someone above pointed out Norwich were no great shakes at Ewood in December.

Clearly we need strengthening, with 5 or 6 first team ability players needed this summer. Mowbray seems to acknowledge that so it should be interesting. Norwich & Sheff U are something to aspire to and we absolutely should be aiming for a proper promotion push next season. But at the same time they ought not necessarily to be used as a stick to beat Mowbray with as this league is so unpredictable. I think it's clear that our style of play is evolving into something more dynamic than long balls to DG, so it'll be interesting to see what direction his recruitment takes us the summer.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Atko's Engine said:

But at the same time they ought not necessarily to be used as a stick to beat Mowbray with as this league is so unpredictable.

We spent more than Norwich and Sheff Utd last season on transfers. If you are well-managed 'unpredictability' doesn't come into it. 

[Blue blood]

I'm a bit worried that our slow start seems to happen every game. I'm also a bit dispairing that Bennett and Leuitweiler are still in the team. 

Not sure getting well beaten is a bad thing as hopefully it reinforces to TM how much work there is to be done. These positive and negative streaks have not helped at all as depending which one we are on our flaws or promise are both overshadowed. Hopefully today shows what we could/should be aiming towards. 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

That first half was akin to the Wigan and derby away games.  Could have been 6-1 down.  We were a bit more competitive second half.  Midfield went missing last night, as did the full backs.  Not sure Graham touched the ball.  Shows the gap we need to bridge.

 

1st 11 players we have for next year

Nyambe

Lennihan

Travis

Rothwell

Dack (if he's here.  Contract talk gone quiet).

Need better players than the bench below to add to the first team.

 

Subs

Raya

Graham

Williams

Armstrong

Brereton

Chapman

Bennett.

 

 

 

[Atko's Engine]

The one transfer of BB distorts everything and becomes (perhaps understandably) a focus for criticism and polarised opinion. I'm quietly confident he'll become far more influential next season and wasn't bought with the intention of firing us up this season.

If you're taking that view, Norwich got lucky because as Sky were at pains to point out, Pukki was 3rd on their list of striker targets, so they clearly weren't expecting 30 goals from him. I think also 2 others of their team were youngsters who'd not seen first team football prior to earlier this season either. So it hardly seems like they spent the 17/18 season prepping an assault on the title in 18/19 which is how as it has panned out. Hence the league is unpredictable.

I'm not saying we can't learn some things from them, we clearly can. But it's not as black and white as "we spent more money than them so should do better" or "our manager's rubbish, theirs is great".

Sorry, got a zoo trip to get ready for now, might be back on later!!

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Blue blood said:

I'm a bit worried that our slow start seems to happen every game.

Come on mate, we play on 'front foot' every game. Tony says so*

*3 goals all season from open play in the first half of games at Ewood.  

 

[Doug]

Some negatives and positives to draw from last nights game that we had little to play for and they were desperate to win.

Dack and Graham were downright shocking and both were correctly subbed, their lack of commitment left the rest of the team having to deal with an excellent pressing, pass and move Norwich team. These players need to have a good look in the mirror this morning and, if that's what they believe is an acceptable performance, then there should be no place for either of them next season.

Bell has some technical ability but is not our answer to the LB position. 

Bennett is not the answer to our RB position.

Travis and Rothwell were chasing shadows due to the lack of commitment from Danny and Brad,

Williams (I can't believe I'm typing this) is putting in good performances at CH and Chapman looked good when he came on.

Second Half was much better once we were playing with 11 and we started to cause them a few problems.

Nyambe for Bennett and that second half team would be quite promising.

 

 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Atko's Engine said:

Sorry, got a zoo trip to get ready for now, might be back on later!!

Give your phone and BRFCS password to a chimp. We'd get more sense out of them

Edited April 28, 2019 by blueboy3333

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Managers come and go at Ewood but the same malaise remains. Slow starters. Out enthused again. What I'd give for a set of players who are really up for the battle.

[Stuart]

Just now, Doug said:

Some negatives and positives to draw from last nights game that we had little to play for and they were desperate to win.

Dack and Graham were downright shocking and both were correctly subbed, their lack of commitment left the rest of the team having to deal with an excellent pressing, pass and move Norwich team. These players need to have a good look in the mirror this morning and, if that's what they believe is an acceptable performance, then there should be no place for either of them next season.

Bell has some technical ability but is not our answer to the LB position. 

Bennett is not the answer to our RB position.

Travis and Rothwell were chasing shadows due to the lack of commitment from Danny and Brad,

Williams (I can't believe I'm typing this) is putting in good performances at CH and Chapman looked good when he came on.

Second Half was much better once we were playing with 11 and we started to cause them a few problems.

Nyambe for Bennett and that second half team would be quite promising.

A very fair assessment.

We have some very talented young players in the side (Rothwell, Chapman, Butterworth, Armstrong) who could all stake a claim for Dack’s position in the pitch.

We have less able cover for Graham, and that needs addressing.

These kinds of games are where some of the youngsters should be getting a run out. (Butterworth and Buckley, having performed in the last match, should have been rewarded). It’s lose-lose with Graham and Dack. We know what they are capable of so they can only come up short. If they do come up short then they have the excuse of it only being a dead rubber so get a free pass (from fans).

Mowbray absolutely must learn about his current squad options. He always seems to bring in youngsters and then drop them when they do well. It’s almost as though he wants to prove that the academy doesn’t bring through players and when it does he doesn’t know what to do.