Agenda for Supporter Consultation Evening 02/5/19

[perthblue02]

Just now, Tom said:

Why the constant questions about Suhail?

Hes been around since the start, sure his official appointment was a little bit of favouritism but it’s always seemed there’s too much emphasis on him and his presence 

Disagree, with his agency connections , his previous mysterious lurkings , the more questions the better.

What SW said in the live telegraph feed has clarified his role to some extent, if questions weren't asked we wouldn't know that.

[Scotland1]

Just now, perthblue02 said:

Disagree, with his agency connections , his previous mysterious lurkings , the more questions the better.

What SW said in the live telegraph feed has clarified his role to some extent, if questions weren't asked we wouldn't know that.

Suhail who watched games at Ewood with Jerome and Bassini what’s there thoughts on Bolton? Why would venkys lose 10 million per annum in this league. What’s the clear business picture, intentions or is the model to flog a player now and then ala the Williams model in the PL era and if so do venkys admit going back or reverting to that model that they’ve failed?

What is the value of the club?! What do the owners value it at? If a sheikh came along what’s the selling price?

 

bear in mind 100k for Anderson’s shares and 14 million of debt ish? Is the going rate of Lancashire distressed finically clubs.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Scotland1

[Tom]

Just now, perthblue02 said:

Disagree, with his agency connections , his previous mysterious lurkings , the more questions the better.

What SW said in the live telegraph feed has clarified his role to some extent, if questions weren't asked we wouldn't know that.

I thought the question had been asked and answered at every one of these sessions 

If there is more to it and something truly sinister people need to come out with it 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Tom

[perthblue02]

Just now, Tom said:

I thought the question had been asked and answered at every one of these sessions 

If there is more to it and something truly sinister people need to come out with it 

 

Always worth asking to see if his remit has changed

On the live LT feed , the meeting closed at 7.45, update after (below) , are these Q and A's not for publication or is the last update out of order? 

• Representatives from supporters group are invited to ask questions of the top table which includes Finance Director Mike Cheston, manager Tony Mowbray and Chief Executive Steve Waggott.

Edited May 2, 2019 by perthblue02

[Tom]

Presume that was the standard header and the format of the event

[perthblue02]

Just now, Tom said:

Presume that was the standard header and the format of the event

oh ok, It only appeared on my feed after the 7.45 meeting closed update

[Scotland1]

25 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

Always worth asking to see if his remit has changed

On the live LT feed , the meeting closed at 7.45, update after (below) , are these Q and A's not for publication or is the last update out of order? 

• Representatives from supporters group are invited to ask questions of the top table which includes Finance Director Mike Cheston, manager Tony Mowbray and Chief Executive Steve Waggott.

Steve your salary is 150k ish have you covered 6x  your salary (industry norm) what cost implementations have you done as part of a strategy?! Steve have you a specific target area on behalf of the owners?

Steve - derek Shaw saved money on coffee and chairs, is there an area where you’ve been successful? 

It was mentioned last year Mowbray asked the venkys to attend. Another year on is there any plans?

Edited May 2, 2019 by Scotland1

[Miller11]

The main points I’d take away from this meeting are as follows:

There seemed to be a lot fewer attendees this time round.Not many questions/challenges from the floor (I think only 6 people from the floor asked anything, which was very different from previous meetings I’ve attended.

Waggott came across well. Didn’t necessarily agree with everything he said, but he made a good case for what he said. Happy to acknowledge and take things on board and appears to value supporters. Very commercially driven and would like facilities such as a hotel, conference centre etc to open up new revenue streams. Believes price is the main factor in attendances, but seems to be looking for a magical way of increasing gates without drastically cutting prices. Seems to understand football, but is very business orientated. Thanked me for challenging things and seemed genuinely interested in what would get me to break my boycott.

 

Expect ST prices to remain the same. There was disappointment from Waggott that they hadn’t been able to release details yet.

 

Mowbray wants a crack at promotion.

 

Rangers away pre-season (not official, but I expect it)

 

Many questions were answered pre-emptively... mainly around the defence and transfers.

 

The Suhail issue was probably made bigger by those at the top table. They went to great lengths to stress how much they valued what he does. I pointed out I thought him being more visible would set minds at rest as a lot of mistrust still exists due to past Venky appointments. There was some worry he would get abuse, and the “that’s not his role” argument. It was all quite defensive.

 

Any questions about Venky’s were answered with the usual lines... it’s clear they aren’t going anywhere any time soon, and the subsidies will keep rolling in. No further clue as to what their motivation is though. 

 

Nothing revolutionary, quite an easy evening for the management team.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Very disappointing, just my view. No answers to many questions asked on here.

[old darwen blue]

7:13 pm

Fan: "It seems we are ready to suspend our antagonism to the family."

Which fool said that?

[Herbie6590]

10 hours ago, Tom said:

Why the constant questions about Suhail?

Hes been around since the start, sure his official appointment was a little bit of favouritism but it’s always seemed there’s too much emphasis on him and his presence 

 

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Nothing about Riverside redevelopment?

Good news about Rangers friendly.

Edited May 3, 2019 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[philipl]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17614988.live-updates-from-the-rovers-supporters-consultation-meeting/

telegraph coverage of the meeting.

Many thanks to all who went and for the answers given by the Management present.

It helped my understanding in a number of areas.

As far as I can tell, there is no reason to doubt the veracity of the answers given. they are on record and people can be held to them. 

[philipl]

5 hours ago, old darwen blue said:

7:13 pm

Fan: "It seems we are ready to suspend our antagonism to the family."

Which fool said that?

No but it is now fully on the agenda. 

2010 until Coyle got potted was unforgivable but life moves on.

At least now Rovers look like a proper football club and there are many things to be grateful for in the last two years.

[Parsonblue]

I thought it was a very positive meeting.  It confirmed my view that Steve Waggott is the right man in terms of taking us forward off the field and seems to have to right ideas for taking us forward in terms of finance.  Whether we agree with it or not, it is a business and the bottom line is it needs to increase the daily income - Waggott certainly has plans for it becoming a seven-day-a-week operation.  It's clear that FFP is something that we are having to deal with on a day to day basis and is impacting on financial planning.  As Miller11 said above, it's clear that the owners are here for the long term and are happy to keep ploughing money in on a monthly basis - something which Mowbray, Waggott and Cheston all agreed on.

It was good to see that the feeling of the meeting wanted the owners to return to Ewood and there was an acceptance that they had been poorly advised in the past and that it would be a step forward if they could publicly acknowledge that poor advice had led them to making poor decisions.  From the names of the financial companies now monitoring the club it's clear that they are paying for very expensive financial audits of the club on a regular basis.

I think the real positive is that there seems to be a very good relationship between Mowbray, Waggott, Cheston and the owners.  Both Mowbray and Waggott both acknowledged the important role that Suhail has played and both went out of their way to praise his work on behalf of the club with the owners.  Again, both Mowbray and Waggott underlined just how closely the owners follow results and progress and want to take the club forward in the future.

Whilst I accept not every supporter will agree but I suspect the majority who came away from the meeting last night felt rather more positive than on some previous occasions.

[DE.]

6 hours ago, old darwen blue said:

7:13 pm

Fan: "It seems we are ready to suspend our antagonism to the family."

Which fool said that?

Seems to be the common consensus now tbh. If Venky's had known that all it would take to get people back onside was promotion from League 1 they probably would have relegated us much sooner.

[DE.]

28 minutes ago, philipl said:

No but it is now fully on the agenda. 

2010 until Coyle got potted was unforgivable but life moves on.

At least now Rovers look like a proper football club and there are many things to be grateful for in the last two years.

I don't see how the current situation is substantially different to where we were in 13/14. Nice guy manager who has the ear of the family and has a hit and miss transfer record and questionable tactical skill. A squad with a mixture of decent youth prospects and a few star players. "Stability". Mounting and impossible to pay debts to the owners, with multi-million pound annual losses. Talks of having to sell players to avoid embargoes if we don't get promoted soon. Suhail still lurking in the shadows.

The only major positive change in the last two years is getting promoted out of League 1 - a division we should never have been in to begin with. I don't see this incredible revival that everybody else does. Finishing 14th means we're exactly where we have been for 90% of Venky's tenure - treading water in the Championship. If we'd just missed out on the playoffs this season then I'd understand the positivity to some degree, but for goodness sake, let's at least achieve something worthwhile before rushing to give Madame and the bling brothers hugs and kisses. 

[JBiz]

Just now, DE. said:

 

The only major positive change in the last two years is getting promoted out of League 1 - a division we should never have been in to begin with. I don't see this incredible revival that everybody else does. Finishing 14th means we're exactly where we have been for 90% of Venky's tenure - treading water in the Championship. If 

For me looking at last 2 years, as opposed to using 5+ to make a point;

I’d call an overhaul of the squad from overblown contracts, short term loans and older frees - to a squad chock full of potential in several positions a major positive.

Id call the hiring of an actual managing director at Ewood a major positive.

Id call promotion from the third tier a major positive. I’d also ask Sunderland and Portsmouth fans if promotion from that tier is “worthwhile” too.

Id call staying up this season as a respectable expectation matched too - with a better platform for further moves forward next season. 

Thus, so far - TM has set the expectations, and based on that (from him) the next potential major positives could be; a better transfer system of recruiting from abroad again, a stall set out from day one aiming for “top two, or at least playoffs” and hopefully another summer when our best players stay.

Its difficult for me to ignore all that and simply reboot “stability ffs” 2.0 if I’m honest.

[DE.]

Just now, Biz said:

For me looking at last 2 years, as opposed to using 5+ to make a point;

I’d call an overhaul of the squad from overblown contracts, short term loans and older frees - to a squad chock full of potential in several positions a major positive.

Id call the hiring of an actual managing director at Ewood a major positive.

Id call promotion from the third tier a major positive. I’d also ask Sunderland and Portsmouth fans if promotion from that tier is “worthwhile” too.

Id call staying up this season as a respectable expectation matched too - with a better platform for further moves forward next season. 

Thus, so far - TM has set the expectations, and based on that (from him) the next potential major positives could be; a better transfer system of recruiting from abroad again, a stall set out from day one aiming for “top two, or at least playoffs” and hopefully another summer when our best players stay.

Its difficult for me to ignore all that and simply reboot “stability ffs” 2.0 if I’m honest.

"I’d call an overhaul of the squad from overblown contracts, short term loans and older frees - to a squad chock full of potential in several positions a major positive."

Most of those contracts ran out or were terminated early, so whilst it is a positive I'm not sure how that can be given as a positive towards the owners (which my entire post was geared towards). They sanctioned those contracts which only added to the massive debt we've accrued along with the embargo in 15/16 which helped seal our fate in the 16/17 season. We're in a better position now more by default than by design. Most of the huge contracts came in the first two and a half seasons, after that the treatment of contracts and salaries has been largely consistent. The short-term loans/free transfers era coincided with the transfer embargo and emergency loans. God only knows what was going on there but it still makes me uneasy.

"Id call the hiring of an actual managing director at Ewood a major positive"

Well, that will depend on demonstrable benefits to the club. Just hiring somebody isn't a positive. We've had a cycle on people in various similarly titled positions who spoke a lot but did very little. I think Waggott is a step above those but time will tell. 

"Id call staying up this season as a respectable expectation matched too"

Sure, but it doesn't negate the point that we're just back to where we were before. There has not been any serious change in fortunes yet.

"Id call promotion from the third tier a major positive. I’d also ask Sunderland and Portsmouth fans if promotion from that tier is “worthwhile” too"

You can't compare us to Portsmouth. That's disingenuous. Sunderland may yet come up, but if you look on their forums their fans are pretty furious that they haven't gone up automatically with the resources at their disposal. Rightly so too. 

"Its difficult for me to ignore all that and simply reboot “stability ffs” 2.0 if I’m honest."

Not asking anybody to do that, just wondering why the owners are suddenly deserving of all this praise when they have only taken us back to a place we were five years ago? I'd direct my praise more towards Mowbray than Venky's. They've just been doing the same as they've always been doing, he's the one who's actually come in and tried to make a difference within their inane structure. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by DE.

[JBiz]

Just now, DE. said:

"I’d call an overhaul of the squad from overblown contracts, short term loans and older frees - to a squad chock full of potential in several positions a major positive."

Most of those contracts ran out or were terminated early, so whilst it is a positive I'm not sure how that can be given as a positive towards the owners (which my entire post was geared towards). They sanctioned those contracts which only added to the massive debt we've accrued along with the embargo in 15/16 which helped seal our fate in the 16/17 season. We're in a better position now more by default than by design. Most of the huge contracts came in the first two and a half seasons, after that the treatment of contracts and salaries has been largely consistent. The short-term loans/free transfers era coincided with the transfer embargo and emergency loans. God only knows what was going on there but it still makes me uneasy.

"Id call the hiring of an actual managing director at Ewood a major positive"

Well, that will depend on demonstrable benefits to the club. Just hiring somebody isn't a positive. We've had a cycle on people in various similarly titled positions who spoke a lot but did very little. I think Waggott is a step above those but time will tell. 

"Id call staying up this season as a respectable expectation matched too"

Sure, but it doesn't negate the point that we're just back to where we were before. There has not been any serious change in fortunes yet.

"Id call promotion from the third tier a major positive. I’d also ask Sunderland and Portsmouth fans if promotion from that tier is “worthwhile” too"

You can't compare us to Portsmouth. That's disingenuous. Sunderland may yet come up, but if you look on their forums their fans are pretty furious that they haven't gone up automatically with the resources at their disposal. Rightly so too. 

"Its difficult for me to ignore all that and simply reboot “stability ffs” 2.0 if I’m honest."

Not asking anybody to do that, just wondering why the owners are suddenly deserving of all this praise when they have only taken us back to a place we were five years ago? I'd direct my praise more towards Mowbray than Venky's. They've just been doing the same as they've always been doing, he's the one who's actually come in and tried to make a difference within their inane structure. 

You’ll have to point me to the praise for the owners, I’ve not seen any - I thought you were talking about the club overall and the general direction. Since it was mainly TM talking about expectation, aspiration etc - I assumed the replies to this thread centred on answers to questions by him and Steve.

As for Waggott - id say it takes a long time to turn a ship round, and the major turns so far have been made.

Theres legitimacy in all of @MCMC1875 ‘s comments but none of them are on the pitch - the key part of a football club.

As I said also - TM/Waggott have overseen a big overhaul of the first team - that’s a major positive for the club, regardless of how you feel that reflects on the ownership.

Sunderland fans are rightly unhappy, Portsmouth have been in the depths longer and in a different way granted, but both their individual situations (like us last year) require promotion.

The requirement is/was a “worthwhile” achievement imo.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Biz

[unsall]

33 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

I thought it was a very positive meeting.  It confirmed my view that Steve Waggott is the right man in terms of taking us forward off the field and seems to have to right ideas for taking us forward in terms of finance.  Whether we agree with it or not, it is a business and the bottom line is it needs to increase the daily income - Waggott certainly has plans for it becoming a seven-day-a-week operation.  It's clear that FFP is something that we are having to deal with on a day to day basis and is impacting on financial planning.  As Miller11 said above, it's clear that the owners are here for the long term and are happy to keep ploughing money in on a monthly basis - something which Mowbray, Waggott and Cheston all agreed on.

It was good to see that the feeling of the meeting wanted the owners to return to Ewood and there was an acceptance that they had been poorly advised in the past and that it would be a step forward if they could publicly acknowledge that poor advice had led them to making poor decisions.  From the names of the financial companies now monitoring the club it's clear that they are paying for very expensive financial audits of the club on a regular basis.

I think the real positive is that there seems to be a very good relationship between Mowbray, Waggott, Cheston and the owners.  Both Mowbray and Waggott both acknowledged the important role that Suhail has played and both went out of their way to praise his work on behalf of the club with the owners.  Again, both Mowbray and Waggott underlined just how closely the owners follow results and progress and want to take the club forward in the future.

Whilst I accept not every supporter will agree but I suspect the majority who came away from the meeting last night felt rather more positive than on some previous occasions.

Yes agree entirely with what you say, Waggot not everyone’s cup of tea but definitely the best since Williams. People need to realise he has to try and balance the books, think he and Mowbray doing an excellent job.

They are certainly trying to utilise the ground 24/7 and I believe the company they have chose re hospitality want that. Was told the company’s name and they are certainly very big in the football hospitality,including a few big Premier clubs,Championship,Scotish Premiership and a couple of national venues, think Rovers have gone for the best, be interesting how it pans out on the running the concourses as well as the corporate.

Looking like season tickets staying the same,looking between the lines. I would have probably tried one season, at very cheap,just to see if if they could drastically increase the volume, but obviously they aren’t sure that’s the way to go.

Think the majority of fans think the club is improving slowly from the dark days, and I am looking forward to next season with hopefully some quality signings.

[tomphil]

I think the glee if you can call it that from a lot of fans on the 'new' stability model is almost 100% based on the fact it could have been a lot worse and certainly looked like it was going to be not long ago.

Thankful for small mercies ?   Probably.

What these present incumbents have done is nip that rot right in the bud and have given the club a chance to flourish again although how much it does will depend on how often it gets fed and the continuing skill of those attending to its needs.

There is no such thing as miracle grow for football clubs sadly so we just have to keep grafting away.

[DE.]

Just now, Biz said:

You’ll have to point me to the praise for the owners, I’ve not seen any - I thought you were talking about the club overall and the general direction. Since it was mainly TM talking about expectation, aspiration etc - I assumed the replies to this thread centred on answers to questions by him and Steve.

As for Waggott - id say it takes a long time to turn a ship round, and the major turns so far have been made.

Theres legitimacy in all of @MCMC1875 ‘s comments but none of them are on the pitch - the key part of a football club.

As I said also - TM/Waggott have overseen a big overhaul of the first team - that’s a major positive for the club, regardless of how you feel that reflects on the ownership.

Sunderland fans are rightly unhappy, Portsmouth have been in the depths longer and in a differeng way granted, but both their individual situations (like us last year) require promotion. The requirement is/was a worthwhile achievement.

There is a lot of talk of forgiving Venky's and welcoming them back, which is quite frustrating to me. People talk about them funding the club like it's some kind of charitable donation. They own the club! It's their responsibility and duty to provide and care for it, that's what they signed up for when they bought the bloody thing. It's gotten to this weird point, and I don't know if it's a Stockholm Syndrome thing or what, where people genuinely seem impressed and amazed that the owners continue to fund the club rather than just abandon it. As if it would be perfectly okay for the owner of any business to just stop paying bills and employees because they don't feel like it any more. 

They've made no effort to sell and have always said publicly they have no desire to sell. We have to assume then that they still want the responsibility of owning the club and representing Blackburn - therefore paying the bills is just a part of that accepted responsibility. Yes it could be worse, but how many owners in recent history have simply pulled the plug and stopped paying the bills at this level? It's pretty rare. Normally a club is sold well before it gets to that stage. 

I'm judging them more on how their decision making affects the club, and it still doesn't seem to be right even after nearly a decade. We're still far too reliant on the manager wielding huge amounts of power and influence, whilst also having travelling to India to beg for money every six months. Until that system changes I do not view Venky's as sensible custodians and I do not think they've really learned anything. They just keep hiring different people in the hope it will one day click. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by DE.

[tomphil]

I think if you read through the Bolton situation they are that rare club and not long ago we seemed to be heading that way when the taps were turned off. Fortunately thanks largely to Bowyer & co we had 30 million worth of players to sell and get out of whatever hole it was.

I do get the feeling things are finally balancing out a bit now and a portion of future funding might be available to strengthen rather than just pay bills and mistakes.

We live in hope.

[JHRover]

Bolton/Pompey/Leeds are the once in a decade example of when things go horribly wrong at a 'big' club. Generally speaking the vast majority of top 3 division clubs are sold or transferred elsewhere before that sort of trouble unfolds. Also worth bearing in mind that for all those clubs problems Leeds and Pompey have rebuilt and are looking forward to bright futures under new ownership. It remains to be seen what unfolds at Bolton but one or two rumours that a few groups are waiting for admin to clear the decks then take over a healthier situation.

It isn't clear whether the move towards 'self sufficiency' is being driven by the owners wanting to reduce their spending or whether it is being driven by FFP requirements. Waggott very clear that the club needs to boost income and reduce reliance on Venkys, fair enough, but is that because Venkys are trying to stop pumping money in or because they have to boost income for FFP reasons?

Seems strange that they've brought Waggott in with this remit and then go out and spend £7 million on Ben Brereton which in one swoop wipes out any income growth Waggott will have delivered. I'm not criticising them for investing in players but it doesn't seem to stack up.

I'm still not clear on the season ticket situation. Waggott claims he wanted them out by now and the delay has been due to 'collecting data'. On that basis I look forward to seeing some changes/imagination in the pricing and categories rather than a straightforward repeat of last season.