Gary Harkins

[rover6]

I was wondering if anyone knows much about Gary Harkins career since he left Rovers to return to Scotland.

The BBC match report for Dundee's recent match has Harkins creating both of their goals - the first after a "mazy dribble."

At Rovers, Harkins was always a defensive midfielder or central defender. It seems remarkable that he's now transformed into a gung-ho ball-running midfielder... What magic has done this?

Edited August 17, 2009 by rover6

[philipl]

I was wondering if anyone knows much about Gary Harkins career since he left Rovers to return to Scotland.

The BBC match report for Dundee's recent match has Harkins creating both of their goals - the first after a "mazy dribble."

At Rovers, Harkins was always a defensive midfielder or central defender. It seems remarkable that he's now transformed into a gung-ho ball-running midfielder... What magic has done this?

Scottish First Division is about three levels down from the PL.

[rover6]

That may be true but the most bizarre thing is that at Rovers he was a defensive player. He either played DM or CB.

Suddenly, he's at Partick, then Dundee and they consider him a wing wizard, with tremendous flair and vision. It makes no sense to me! A centre back turned silky midfielder...?!

Take a look at this: Dundee fans on Harkins

Edited August 28, 2009 by rover6

[FourLaneBlue]

rover6 will be pleased...

August prize for Dundee's Harkins

[rover6]

Thanks FLB... it does please me, in a way.

With Harkins, however, I am not casting any blame on Rovers (not yet...) - I'm just plain bemused. (If I hadn't made it clear!). There is little doubt that he will be in the Scotland national team before long.

I say it again: How does a tough-tackling defensive midfielder/centre back of our reserve team, who made little impression during loan spells in the lower leagues, suddenly become a skilful dazzler of a midfielder?

You may cite the standard of the Scottish league - but I guarentee that if you put Mokoena - or Keith Andrews in the Scottish 1st Division you would not be hearing about how marvellous his running with the ball is and the flair-some nature of his game - however long you left them there.

I wonder if anybody watched much of Harkins at Rovers. Did he show signs of skill back then?

Edited September 7, 2009 by rover6

[Amo]

rover6 will be pleased...

August prize for Dundee's Harkins

He does NOT look 24!

[Parsonblue]

Thanks FLB... it does please me, in a way.

With Harkins, however, I am not casting any blame on Rovers (not yet...) - I'm just plain bemused. (If I hadn't made it clear!). There is little doubt that he will be in the Scotland national team before long.

I say it again: How does a tough-tackling defensive midfielder/centre back of our reserve team, who made little impression during loan spells in the lower leagues, suddenly become a skilful dazzler of a midfielder?

You may cite the standard of the Scottish league - but I guarentee that if you put Mokoena - or Keith Andrews in the Scottish 1st Division you would not be hearing about how marvellous his running with the ball is and the flair-some nature of his game - however long you left them there.

I wonder if anybody watched much of Harkins at Rovers. Did he show signs of skill back then?

I think you're getting a little carried away there rover6 to suggest that Harkins is on the verge of the Scottish national team. He failed to make the grade with Grimsby Town and in Scotland is plying his trade in the second tier of Scottish football. I would have thought that he would need to make a move to the Scottish Premier League and prove himself at that level before the international team starts to call.

At Ewood, he was never anything more than a workmanlike midfielder-cum-defender. I seem to recall him playing a full-back for the Academy on a few occasions and he caught the eye early in his career. However, he never really looked a possible candidate for the first team. I'm not quite sure on what you base your assumption that he is better than Mokoena or Andrews.

There have been any number of youngsters who have left the Rovers and carved out a decent career in the Scottish Leagues - Nelson, Black, Morgan, Renton and Cummings to name a few. However, none would have made it in the Premier League.

[Amo]

[rover6]

I think you're getting a little carried away there rover6 to suggest that Harkins is on the verge of the Scottish national team. He failed to make the grade with Grimsby Town and in Scotland is plying his trade in the second tier of Scottish football. I would have thought that he would need to make a move to the Scottish Premier League and prove himself at that level before the international team starts to call.

At Ewood, he was never anything more than a workmanlike midfielder-cum-defender. I seem to recall him playing a full-back for the Academy on a few occasions and he caught the eye early in his career. However, he never really looked a possible candidate for the first team. I'm not quite sure on what you base your assumption that he is better than Mokoena or Andrews.

There have been any number of youngsters who have left the Rovers and carved out a decent career in the Scottish Leagues - Nelson, Black, Morgan, Renton and Cummings to name a few. However, none would have made it in the Premier League.

Of course, he'll have to be in the Scotch Prem before he can hope of international caps but I don't think that that will be far off, barring injuries. At Dundee, he seems to have picked up where he left Partick. He'll either get signed or promoted.

Nothing more than a "Workmalike midfielder" EXACTLY my point. Back in Scotland he has turned into a Damien Duff type runner with the ball, from all that I'm reading. That's the mystery.

Yes, a number of youngsters have done well on being released to return up North. However, I do not believe that any of the names you have mentioned received the rave reviews that Harkins is receiving. Neither did they undergo Jekyll-Hyde kind of transformation in style, either.

I await further news about Harkins with interest. I like to see ex-Rovers youngsters do well - and because I see skilful football as the apotheosis of football, I am very happy to see an ex-Rovers skilful youngster flourish.

[Parsonblue]

Ian Black has been, by far and away, the most successful of the youngsters who returned to Scotland. He joined Inverness Caledonian Thistle after leaving the Rovers and won a Scottish 'B' cap in 2005. He moved to Hearts this summer after playing for Scotland 'B' against Northern Ireland 'B' in May of this year. I would suggest, rover6, that you keep track of him, he always looked impressive in the Academy. Is he good enough for the Premier League? That's another question.

With regard to Harkins, while it's good to see him doing well, there is a huge gulf between the second tier of Scottish football and the Premier League. Certainly, at Ewood he was noted more for his physical approach to the game rather than skilful midfield play. Perhaps the level he is now at means that he can use his physique to provide him with more time and space to play the game.

[rover6]

I appreciate that you are more factually endowed here, PB, but I think you are clutching at straws.

Even if you gave Mokoena an acre of space against a dwarf defender, he still wouldn't come across as skilful. Harkins renaissance needs more explanation than "he has more space" in Scottish 2nd level.

Yeah - I have been vaguely aware of Ian Black's progress. Although, I would argue that surely he can't be that good if he still can't get into the Scottish squad when he's playing for Hearts. I mean - Gary Teale gets in the squads for Scotland!

A player whose career I followed a bit was that of Adam Nelson. I think he was part of Rovers Youth Cup finalist side (thrashed by Arsenal) and, although he never made it, he forged a half-decent lower league career in Scotland as a creative, skilful right midfielder. Not sure where he plays now but I think he was at Brechin.

Another player that fell away was left winger, Andy Reid (not the Irish version). I'm not sure if you know much about him? He played for our U18s and he, Treacy and Peter were a triumverate of lefties that seemed to promise much competition for Damien Duff. Didn't materialise!

[Parsonblue]

A couple of updates for rover6:

Andy Reid is now playing with Beith Juniors while Adam Nelson and Kieron Renton both joined Musselburgh Athletic in the summer.

With regard to the debate over Black, Harkins and Mokoena - having seen quite a bit of all three I know which I would choose. On this we will have to agree to disagree.

When Aaron left the Rovers there were two or three other Premiership clubs interested in him.

When Harkins left the Rovers he went to Grimsby and struggled. He then moved to Partick Thistle and has now moved sideways, so to speak, to another club in League One in Scotland in Dundee.

Black, on the other hand, has played continually in the Scottish Premier League since leaving the Rovers. His star appears to be on the rise again with an international call up in May and a transfer to Hearts in the summer. As I said before, he has been the most successful of the youngsters who returned to Scotland after their stints at Ewood.

What I do find surprising, is how quickly these lads seem to drop through the Leagues in Scotland and into Scottish non-League football. The latest to disappear seems to be Alan Morgan who was not retained by Stenhousemuir at the end of last season. I must say I find that surprising as I always rated Morgan when he was with the Academy and the Reserves.

[rover6]

A couple of updates for rover6:

Andy Reid is now playing with Beith Juniors while Adam Nelson and Kieron Renton both joined Musselburgh Athletic in the summer.

With regard to the debate over Black, Harkins and Mokoena - having seen quite a bit of all three I know which I would choose. On this we will have to agree to disagree.

When Aaron left the Rovers there were two or three other Premiership clubs interested in him.

Thanks for the update, PB.

I would just say that, interest from Premier League clubs is not a foolproof criterion for quality. Otherwise, Nigel Quashie and Djimi Traore would be world beaters. No matter how much interest, I and most ROvers fans have seen enough to know that Mokoena is dreadful. I will never forget his attempt to mark Teddy Sheringham for a goal we conceded from a cross. Just shocking.

I make one of the infamous rover6 predictions here and now, "WIthin the next two years, Aaron Mokoena will disappear into obscurity and Harkins will be making a success of his career in either SPL or maybe CHamp." I am hundred percent confident about Mokoena's career demise, and the Harkins prediction is going on his current amazing form.

BTW: Do you know what happened to Ralph Welch. He was the tempestuous left winger who was a good player for our U18s/reserves, when he wasn't being sent off. He got chucked out of the Liverpool academy for some misdemeanour, I think, before joining us.

[stuwilky]

I make one of the infamous rover6 predictions here and now, "WIthin the next two years, Aaron Mokoena will disappear into obscurity and Harkins will be making a success of his career in either SPL or maybe CHamp." I am hundred percent confident about Mokoena's career demise, and the Harkins prediction is going on his current amazing form.

In two years Mokoena will be the wrong side of thirty and his current side will have been relegated (there's a prediction).

Harkins will be 25/26.

Mokoena is currently a far better player than Harkins is.

[Parsonblue]

I make one of the infamous rover6 predictions here and now, "WIthin the next two years, Aaron Mokoena will disappear into obscurity and Harkins will be making a success of his career in either SPL or maybe CHamp." I am hundred percent confident about Mokoena's career demise, and the Harkins prediction is going on his current amazing form.

And I confidently predict by at the end of their careers, because your predictions are dealing this two players of differing ages, that:

Aaron Mokoena will have played more Premier League games than Gary Harkins.

Aaron Mokoena will have appeared in more international matches than Gary Harkins.

Aaron Mokoena will have enjoyed a far more successful career than Gary Harkins.

[rover6]

Mokoena is currently a far better player than Harkins is.

There is absolutely no way of proving this but I would dispute this. From what I read, it seems that Harkins has some technical skill. Mokoena has nothing but brawn and the gift of the gab.

Pompey are shipping goals and Moko's the man who's meant to be stemming opposition attacks. He is currently being selected because the myopic Pompey management can't see beyond his experience and size. Many a experienced player has lived off his reputation well beyond the days when he was contributing anything to anyone (eg Flitcroft in his final seasons at Rovers).

Edited September 12, 2009 by rover6

[Parsonblue]

There is absolutely no way of proving this but I would dispute this. From what I read, it seems that Harkins has some technical skill. Mokoena has nothing but brawn and the gift of the gab.

Pompey are shipping goals and Moko's the man who's meant to be stemming opposition attacks. He is currently being selected because the myopic Pompey management can't see beyond his experience and size. Many a experienced player has lived off his reputation well beyond the days when he was contributing anything to anyone (eg Flitcroft in his final seasons at Rovers).

I don't know why you don't give this one up rover6. At the end of the day Mokoena will end his career with far more Premiership appearances and international caps than players like Gary Harkins. You may not like it. You may disagree with it. But at the end of the day it will be fact!

I've seen countless players pass throught the academy and reserves who possessed enormous talent but lacked that little bit extra that could turn them into top flight players. Mokoena obviously poessess that something that enables him to maximise his ability and harness it into a team situation. I've seen a great deal of both Harkins and Mokoena and in terms of Premier League ability there is no comparison. Mokoena is by far the better player as the career stats of both players will no doubt show at the end of their careers.

[stuwilky]

With all due respect 6, you are championing a player on the ground of what you have read, of him playing in a vastly weaker league north of the border.

[American]

You guys don't get the point - he isn't championing Harkins, he's saying Mokoena is crap.

[stuwilky]

You guys don't get the point - he isn't championing Harkins, he's saying Mokoena is crap.

Neither player is good enough for Blackburn Rovers.

[American]

Exactly, but we invested a lot more money in Mokoena to find that out.

[stuwilky]

Exactly, but we invested a lot more money in Mokoena to find that out.

Naturally, he is better than Gary Harkins.

[rover6]

Harkins helped Dundee to beat SPL Aberdeen in the cup. His star is rising...

BTW: I found a little about Sergio Peter's background and it goes some way to explaining him. Apparently, he is of gypsie heritage and he grew up in a very tough, crime-ridden area. He must have needed hubris to get out of that and then work his way through the inevitable racism and become a good football player.

It may not excuse his bad attitude but it does go some way to explaining it.

Since leaving Prague, I think he is going to join his old team in Mannheim.